EPTPatch 1.3 out right now for NA server! - Page 16
| Forum Index > SC2 General |
|
Zim23
United States1681 Posts
| ||
|
sjschmidt93
United States2518 Posts
On March 23 2011 05:11 WCH wrote: This is turning into a thread raging about imbalance. Hardly any of the pros user templars until its really really late into the game, I agree that they should of made the upgrade come with less energy instead like most pros have said but to rage about it is just childish. Two-base templar is extremely common and viable. It does not have to be late game. | ||
|
dkream
Canada36 Posts
Every single race has a cheese opening like this? It’s not just Terran. Protoss and their cannon rush. Zerg and 6 pool. Terran and bunker rush. All of which can be stopped if you scout like you are suppose to. Only difference is terran is not punished as harshly as other races for failing these 'cheese' | ||
|
StanzA
Canada478 Posts
On March 23 2011 05:30 p1cKLes wrote: Every single race has a cheese opening like this? It’s not just Terran. Protoss and their cannon rush. Zerg and 6 pool. Terran and bunker rush. All of which can be stopped if you scout like you are suppose to. Except for P and Z those builds are entirely all in. 2rax is a standard opening because you can salvage the bunkers. Terran is almost guaranteed some damage early on with it, which is why it's such a common opener. | ||
|
goswser
United States3548 Posts
On March 23 2011 05:28 hitman133 wrote: you need to play protoss, then edit your post again bro. Why Terran don't split up their units but Protoss should? B/c EMP does insane damage, can't imagine protoss w/o shield die to marauders with just 1 shot. No guardian shield, no FFs, no shield, no storms, nothing. And fewer supplies ? Are you sure when gateways units are 2 supplies, and Colossus are 6 when all Terran need is 1 marines, 2 marauder, 2 for vikings and medivac and ghost ? Ghost is the most interesting unit in the game that Terran players are just too lazy to exploit it. bro I have played protoss at the highest levels. Some terran don't split up their army, but good terrans spread units and/or attack in a wide arc. You can avoid the emp problem if you just have your templar in a warp prism, he won't have vikings if you open immortal + gateway units, and this negates emp. And yes protoss is far more cost effective in lategame, supply-wise, templar are the best units in the game. | ||
|
p1cKLes
United States342 Posts
On March 23 2011 05:32 Reborn8u wrote: I honestly think protoss could use some kind of mechanic to help with securing 3rd's and bases after that. Terran has PF's and sensor towers, zerg has creep spread and very fast units. What does toss have? It's very hard to split a protoss army because the colossus must be protected and are slow. Early game protoss has to rely on FF's and let's face it many of the 3rd's are pretty open as well as many naturals on the maps. Defending with FF's and getting in good postion with how slow protoss units are will be a struggle. Colossus, sentries, immortals, voids, carriers, Ht's are all pretty slow in the later stages of the game. Blink and Charge combined with the cost of the twilight are 2x more expensive than the speed upgrades for roach,ling and Terrans bio upgrades. Warping in storms was serving the purpose of covering spread out bases in the late/mid game. I'm not sure what will be able to fill this need now. Cannons? Something that hits both air and ground, which allows you enough time to warp in units. | ||
|
Elefanto
Switzerland3584 Posts
On March 23 2011 05:32 Reborn8u wrote: I honestly think protoss could use some kind of mechanic to help with securing 3rd's and bases after that. Terran has PF's and sensor towers, zerg has creep spread and very fast units. What does toss have? It's very hard to split a protoss army because the colossus must be protected and are slow. Early game protoss has to rely on FF's and let's face it many of the 3rd's are pretty open as well as many naturals on the maps. Defending with FF's and getting in good postion with how slow protoss units are will be a struggle. Colossus, sentries, immortals, voids, carriers, Ht's are all pretty slow in the later stages of the game. Blink and Charge combined with the cost of the twilight are 2x more expensive than the speed upgrades for roach,ling and Terrans bio upgrades. Warping in storms was serving the purpose of covering spread out bases in the late/mid game. I'm not sure what will be able to fill this need now. Cannons, Warp-Ins, leave 1 or 2 hts in the base to secure for dropping? I'm a protoss myself, but those things can be covered other than with insta-storm. Believe it or not, gateway units are effective against mmm if there isn't like 3x the mmm and they don't kite you. Straight up zealots are beasts in direct combat. | ||
|
dave333
United States915 Posts
On March 23 2011 05:30 p1cKLes wrote: Every single race has a cheese opening like this? It’s not just Terran. Protoss and their cannon rush. Zerg and 6 pool. Terran and bunker rush. All of which can be stopped if you scout like you are suppose to. lmao are you saying 6 pool compares to a 2 rax bunker rush? funniest (and dumbest thing) i've heard in the past week. 2 rax bunker rush ISN'T cheese right now. It automatically does damage by its very nature and does not leave the terran player behind at all; he gets to build rines, build scvs, and still get an expo up. There's nothing allinish or cheesy about it right now in terms of its execution, even though bunker rush should be cheese. 6 pool is lol, if you don't kill them you lose. cannon rushing isn't guaranteed to do damage, and it delays your tech/expo/makes you vulnerable to other sorts of all ins (see nydus). You can't truly punish/stop a 2 rax bunker rush because by its nature, to stop it, it requires you do build crawlers/pull drones/make lings or delay your expo. Right there it has done its job. It can go on to actually kill the zerg and deal further damage, all while things move right along smoothly at home thanks to mules. and then they can salvage their bunkers when they're done. 6 pools and cannons rushes are a joke compared to that; if toss/zerg had a "cheesy" build this good, it would become standard, just like 2 rax bunker rushes. This "cheese" build is just so good and so rewarding that it is now standard, not cheese. There's virtually no risk, and the reward can be straight up winning the game. No other race has a "cheese" build like that. | ||
|
abominable
101 Posts
you must realise that terrans have to go blind vikings anyway, because colossus deathball is nigh unstoppable without vikings. the only difference is that in late game where you've both destroyed eachothers' deathball's, the protoss can no longer instakill any remaining terran units and nullifying all drop play with a single unit. but if they have excess gas they can use ARCHONS!!! LawL. (seriously though - might see more archons, one of the most underrated units in the game) | ||
|
Snowbear
Korea (South)1925 Posts
"lol you are so wrong, you can go mech, look jinro" --> No, mech doesn't work vs protoss, except on small maps like steppes. "lol no, you can do marine - tank" --> No, dies to collo / HT "lol no, you can do the marine tank banshee raven allin" --> ALLIN, yes. | ||
|
p1cKLes
United States342 Posts
On March 23 2011 05:35 Newguy wrote: bro I have played protoss at the highest levels. Some terran don't split up their army, but good terrans spread units and/or attack in a wide arc. You can avoid the emp problem if you just have your templar in a warp prism, he won't have vikings if you open immortal + gateway units, and this negates emp. And yes protoss is far more cost effective in lategame, supply-wise, templar are the best units in the game. You can also split the army with FF's as most Terran players put their ghosts in the back, which puts them out of range allowing you to isolate and slaughter the units in front. At that point, it's a lot easier to deal with. | ||
|
Downside
173 Posts
| ||
|
Shamrock_
South Africa276 Posts
On March 23 2011 05:33 rebuffering wrote: UPDATE: just played a 4v4 (only option available for me) AND NO KEYS WERE WORKING IN THE GAME!!! i could not make scv's, or even type to my allies that my keyboard was fucked up. but its not my keyboard it works fine!!!! wtf is happening!! I've had this problem before the patch. Just restart the game. Highly frustrating though since it's pretty much guaranteed loss. I don't think it's the patch though, just seems to be an occasional unaddressed glitch. | ||
|
sjschmidt93
United States2518 Posts
I would either nerf the MULE or remove salvage. The nerfing of the MULE would punish Terran forbringing SCV's (whether it's 3 or 4 or the crazy 10+ all-in) It would make it so that terran can't stay close in income to zergs while having far less drones. And salvage means you don't have to spend anything to do this. | ||
|
Snowbear
Korea (South)1925 Posts
On March 23 2011 05:41 sjschmidt93 wrote: On bunkers and bunker rushes: I would either nerf the MULE or remove salvage. The nerfing of the MULE would punish Terran forbringing SCV's (whether it's 3 or 4 or the crazy 10+ all-in) It would make it so that terran can't stay close in income to zergs while having far less drones. And salvage means you don't have to spend anything to do this. No mules? This means that the terran his economy will be much weaker. Good luck fighting protoss with that. Do you actually understand that both protoss and zerg can make alot more workers then the terran can? You ever fought against a 2base agressive zerg with terran? Do you ever play tvp? Please think before you post such crazyness. Bunkers shouldn't be refunded 100%. That's where the problem is. | ||
|
waffleduck
125 Posts
| ||
|
andrewlt
United States7702 Posts
On March 23 2011 05:25 dave333 wrote: So they did a good job in adding some dimension to zerg. They kinda went overkill on KA, but they gave zealots a nice little up. Now the question is...is this really their best ideas on how to fix terran? Make stim take longer and add 5 seconds to bunkers? I really feel that the fact that 2 rax bunker rushes are STANDARD and not cheese is everything that is wrong about terran right now. Bunker rushing every single game and being guaranteed to do damage at virtually no risk and without loss is silly. Bunker rushing in BW was cheese; now it's standard and is actually probably a very good opening, if not the best one. You get a wall in, you get to make SCVs, marines and a CC all thanks to mules, and then you set up bunkers to either force lings/crawlers/pulling drones at the least and killing at the most, and then you can just salvage the bunkers to boot. At the very least you come out even and slightly ahead (you have to mess up hard to somehow come behind X_X). Ideally you win the game. This sort of thing should not happen with something like a bunker rush. I think these are all fallout of buffing the marines from what they were in BW. Marines received both an hp buff, an attack speed buff and a researchable hp buff. They already nerfed stim from a 100% attack rate increase down to a 50% one to compensate but they still need to keep fooling around with stim and bunkers. | ||
|
dave333
United States915 Posts
On March 23 2011 05:46 Dente wrote: No mules? This means that the terran his economy will be much weaker. Good luck fighting protoss with that. Do you actually understand that both protoss and zerg can make alot more workers then the terran can? You ever fought against a 2base agressive zerg with terran? Do you ever play tvp? Please think before you post such crazyness. Bunkers shouldn't be refunded 100%. That's where the problem is. He's not saying no mules, he's saying nerf them. Mules are incredibly strong right now; once you get a few OCs, or if you snag a PF at the gold expansion, marines basically become free thanks to mules. The strength of the mule is that it gives terran surplus minerals; in ZvT the terran can essentially trade minerals for gas by forcing lots of banelings with their rines/tanks. Mules let you pull scvs so easily to go in with the attack at virtually no cost. Salvage's silliness speaks for itself. ^the buff of the rine just mixes perfectly with everything else terran got. Marines got move-shot, faster firing rate (even with the stim "nerf", it's still unbelievably fast, its like marking up the price of furniture then putting a fat discount on it claiming there's a sale), more hp, medivacs so you can stuff 8 rines into a dropship and still let them heal, smart fire tanks, clumping, bunkers you can salvage, mules that make rines free, reactors, etc. It was a perfect storm of factors that turned rines into what they are. And now AOE damage is basically the only thing that stops them from demolishing everything; the game is essentially centered around area of effect damage right now. | ||
|
Torumfroll
290 Posts
On March 23 2011 05:17 Newguy wrote: Protoss who complain about templar nerfs need to realize a few things. First, they are still incredibly strong in late game, as they take up very little supply, considering the buff they add to the protoss army. Another consideration. We all want there to be a larger skill gap and more room for improvement. The KA change provides that, to some degree. Instead of just a moving and constantly warping in templar to instant storm, protoss now need to think ahead, spread their templar so they can't be emped as easily, and execute late game battles with precision and finesse. Maybe this change will make protoss be more careful with units in the lategame, so we don't see the "blagghhh my tightly clumped army attack you now" mentality at the highest levels. What makes protoss so different to the other races then? Shouldnt this whole think ahead and execute late game battles with precision and finesse be true for all races? Shouldnt other races spread out their units and not have their army tightly clumped as well so they dont eat entire storm durations? | ||
|
blade55555
United States17423 Posts
On March 23 2011 05:33 Zim23 wrote: Anyone know when Korea is getting the patch? I was hoping to see it in action in the GSTL. I'm hoping tonight want to play with the new patch on korean server  . | ||
| ||
