Quick background. I'm a B ish SC1 player and currently ranked around #10 in the platinum division with just over 100 games played in sc2. I'm looking for new ideas and new ways to use the cool stuff SC2 has to offer.
I'm asking for your thoughts on how to use the more interesting units in SC2 such as the infestor, raven, colossus, sentry etc... Essentially any unit with an ability that isn't just 'attack' could have potentially new and interesting uses.
To add a little incentive, after a few days I will pick the best idea and play a few games which emphasize that strategy and then upload the VOD's to youtube.
For example, legionnare mentioned in his interview that it was possible to take advantage of the cliff walking colossus by using sentries to force field a player's ramp which would give the colossus free range of the person's base.
Anything is cool, everything is interesting. I just want to see what other people have to say about the new units and anything cool/interesting/epic they think could be done with said units.
'qxc'
Videos uploaded
1. Baneling / Nydus rush --- 2. Mass Zealots / Colossi --- 3. Mass queens
I just did this against my friend but since I'm not amazing at the sc2 I can't pull it off in ladder. Try getting 2 ghost academies and abuse the cliffs on Lost Temple using 2 nukes like crazy. Sort of like one of the battle reports. (I think 4)
I came up with a ghost rush for TvZ.The purpose isn't to kill him straight up, but to put a new kind of pressure on zergs that they have never seen before. The early(ish) ghosts should be able to infiltrate his base and kill some drones. If he can get an overseer quickly, you may be able to kill it with snipe before your ghosts die, especially if you find it morphing. In an ideal typical situation, you will come in, kill something like 10 drones, 1 overseer, get intel, and leave before energy runs out. If he is going a lot of roaches and doesn't even have a lair at the 8 minute mark, its possible you could kill a ton of drones, if not all of them, or keep him from mining for a long time if he runs them away.
10 depot 12 rax 12 gas send out scouting scv 13 gas 15 orbital command marine 16 rax scv tech lab
if you see an early roach warren: 17 marauder otherwise: 17 marine 18 marine
19 supply 19 ghost academy (asap or 80% rax)
if you feel pressure coming from roaches, make another marauder
@ 100% rax: tech lab @ 100% tech lab1: ghost asap or @100% second marauder: ghost @ 150 gas research cloak
At this stage you want to pump marauders, depots and scvs. It would be great if you could have your ghosts near his base and undetected when cloak finishes, but you practically have to be boxer to make that happen 100% of the time while defending your base and managing your build.
While you harass, you can expand and then add a factory and another barrack for a transition into a good normal strategy like tanks or marine / medivac. Your expansion should be safe from a roach attack because you made something like 6 or 8 marauders, but it can't hurt to get a bunker or two as well just in case. As you expand, you might make one or two more ghosts from your barracks to offset the large chunk of minerals used and protect you somewhat from light units. Later, you might use your remaining ghosts in a medivac to do additional harassment, possibly with nukes.
The best map for this build is Kulas ravine, because you can wall with one rax and one depot, and its a 4 player map so a scout getting in before you wall is unlikely.
My favorite TvZ "fun" strategy is 1 rax FE (MoRRoW style) into mass Ghost+Marine. Most Zergs don't see it coming and rarely build detection against Terran. Once you have a few Ghosts and some Marines you can move out. Try to avoid Spore Crawlers and use Snipe on any Overseers you see. With just a few Ghosts you can instantly kill an Overseer and the Zerg will be helpless if he doesn't build Spores. Bunkers and Marines can hold off 1 base timing pushes until you start pumping Ghosts. Once you have a decent amount of Ghosts you will gain map control since you can kill Overseers so quickly with Snipe.
On March 09 2010 13:48 Tomed wrote: My favorite TvZ "fun" strategy is 1 rax FE (MoRRoW style) into mass Ghost+Marine. Most Zergs don't see it coming and rarely build detection against Terran. Once you have a few Ghosts and some Marines you can move out. Try to avoid Spore Crawlers and use Snipe on any Overseers you see. With just a few Ghosts you can instantly kill an Overseer and the Zerg will be helpless if he doesn't build Spores. Bunkers and Marines can hold off 1 base timing pushes until you start pumping Ghosts. Once you have a decent amount of Ghosts you will gain map control since you can kill Overseers so quickly with Snipe.
I don't have beta, so I can't give you build orders or anything.
But one idea I wanna try when I get in, is kinda fun, kinda simple, hopefully awesome.
What you need. (as zerg)
Mostly Ling/Some Hydra army... you know... normal looking shit. One or two infesters, with energy ready to fungal growth. Roachs with the move-while-burrowed researched and ready to rock.
What you do.
Push at whatever time with your ling/hydra/infestor army. Keep the roaches burrowed and moving near the army too. Fungal growth the near half of the army, and unburrow the roaches to kinda wall them off from the mobile half. Focus fire the immobile and flanked infantry.
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Other idea which I was curious about, but had no idea.
Zerg! Punish early lack of detection!
What you need.
Infestor with energy to fungal growth Burrow Whatever you need for infestors to move while burrowed.
If your opponent (aka terran) skimps on detection, move the burrowed Infestor into his base. Unburrow, fungal growth the workers, burrow, MOVE!
Ideally, you can fungal growth workers, which i ain't sure of, and it does damage, maybe enough to kill after one or two growths, and it stops them from mining, hurting eco... especially if you get a MULE. Important to move, so if they scan, you are out of scan range hopefully... and they hurt the econ even more.
Attack while you do this if you need to break a terran wall, or just to distract.
How about a PvP build, somewhere along the lines of getting lots of probes + fast sentries to basically block the ramp (and have 1 cannon and whatever amount of sentries to kill zealots or something) and getting 2 robos fast and get lots of colossus. Use leftover minerals to get zealots. Basically 1 base turtle into more colossus than the other guy =/
Mass archon zealot vs zerg with phoenix to lift off pesky hydras running away or broodlords above cliffs. The idea is that in SC1 even though melee units (zealots) were stronger straight up against some ranged units (dragoons) the dragoons would just run away and shoot, being really really pesky, and the zealots would all be like wtf!
Now when things run away, you use antigravity and SC2's superior spell casting system, to abuse the raiders phoenix's ensnare antigravity ability so if your opponent runs, they lose half their units. Archons do higher damage vs bio, and zerg don't have emp, so I think the strategy should work better vs zerg. They also shoot psi storms now afaik, so take advantage of it and neglect ht altogether.
Use this play when your opponent has just finished his natural expansion and transfered workers. Hallucinate a group of phoenix or colossus and send them into your opponent's main mineral line. You want to draw his army into his main. Use sentries to wall of his ramp. Kill his expansion.
(Note: Hallucination mechanic has changed since SC1. You now choose which unit to create from a menu. So you do not need a Stargate to hallucinate phoenix, for example.)
- contain at enemy choke with planetary fortress (or 2)
Does the AI autotarget mules or do they ignore them if a combat unit is around? (like medics in SC1) If the AI ignores them, perhaps you could use mules to assist in an early rush by calling them down and blocking a ramp.
I was thinking of a build vs Z where its like the same BO as a banshee rush except instead of banshees you pump ravens. Use the ravens turrets to hurass mineral lines constantly while taking a expo and massing mnm. Evenetually you push out once seeker missile finishes and you have 3-4 ravens. Ive messed around with this with some success, but it would be awesome to see a great player take advantage of it.
Armor and capacity upgraded bunkers with marauder/marine with stim + siege tanks and thors slow pushing/salvaging with supporting ghosts + nukes and a raven or 2 for point defense drone would be a dream come true to see for me.
I've only seen the upgraded bunkers locally... not a single player I've watched even bothered with the ebay's new upgrades.
On March 10 2010 10:40 julealgon wrote: Armor and capacity upgraded bunkers with marauder/marine with stim + siege tanks and thors slow pushing/salvaging with supporting ghosts + nukes and a raven or 2 for point defense drone would be a dream come true to see for me.
I've only seen the upgraded bunkers locally... not a single player I've watched even bothered with the ebay's new upgrades.
This is an interesting idea, however the reason I fear it isnt viable is simply how easy it is now to bypss static defenses. Between nydus/warp ins/drops and the fact that air units seem to be stronger in sc2 in general, I think there are just too many ways to go around it. Still would be cool to see someone win using a strat like this.
edit: also cant forget about all these units with +armored now, mainly immortals will just shit on this lol
On March 10 2010 10:40 julealgon wrote: Armor and capacity upgraded bunkers with marauder/marine with stim + siege tanks and thors slow pushing/salvaging with supporting ghosts + nukes and a raven or 2 for point defense drone would be a dream come true to see for me.
I've only seen the upgraded bunkers locally... not a single player I've watched even bothered with the ebay's new upgrades.
I was just going to suggest this. All you'd really need to deal with nydus/warp-in is good scouting and maybe a med-vac or 2.
Id like to see you blow up a protoss base with only zerglings and banelings spewing forth from a few nydus worms!
I imagine putting up early pressure with zerglings, containing the toss. this is followed up by teching to tier 2 and making mass banelings and a nydus network. Doesnt seem too hard to accomplish. If the nydus worm goes in without trouble the actual base razing should go pretty quick
On March 10 2010 09:45 TwilightStar wrote: Void Ray harrass? With phoenix support? :D
that's like...a standard strategy
KHB did Thor drop on KiWiKaKi (Scrap Metals...), I'd like to see that again on a standard map :D
Massing the sentry's force field on the mineral patches (so that workers cannot harvest) while they are cloaked by the mothership!
Blocking ramp access with a couple of DTs (away from a fight, to increase the chances your opponent doesn't notice), that's a variation of WC3's sentry/shade wall. (until it got fixed in patches, you could literally trap a player in his base, which was huge deal without air transport/teleport-class mobility and late detection)
Pretty wicked, and I have no idea if that would work : you neural parasite a Raven, then burrow-move a roach under the terran army and send seeker missile on your roach so that the AoE dmg will hit enemy units.
I would also like to know what are the possibilities of neural parasite, if you do it on a worker, can it function as a worker (gather resources or even better : start buildings)? If you do it on 2 HTs/DTs, can you make an archon? If you do it on a sentry, can it create protoss hallucinated units? Or more generally : if you do it on an enemy caster, can you use that caster's abilities? Would be awesome to launch a nuke against the terran's own army using his ghost :D Finally (about neural parasite), is the mothership mechanical? (because if not, neural parasite might work on it - I can't remember if it needs to be bio or if it needs NOT be mech for the ability to work)
If you gravitation beam your own unit, can you still use its abilities? I would guess not, but otherwise that would be a nice invincibility scheme for casters ^_^
On March 10 2010 09:45 TwilightStar wrote: Void Ray harrass? With phoenix support? :D
I'd like to see some hallucinated void ray harass. Fake him out with a hallucination or two first, while the real ones kill a building before he realizes its too late.
I was really hoping to find a thread like this! Here's what I would love to see tried out:
Terran Natural Expansion Depot Blockade
Rather than building Supply Depots inside the base like normal, build them just outside your natural expansion, mixing a bunker or two in so that they aren't defenseless if you want to go double Orbital Command. Otherwise, let the natural expansion be a Planetary fortress, hopefully so that it protects the area around the depots. Use whatever harassment/scouting/attacking unit combination you are comfortable with, just remember to always build the depots along this blockade.
I imagine turrets and anti-air would be important for those who want to circumvent the blockade and fly directly into your base. The core concept of this strategy is to allow the flexible and cheap Terran buildings (which can be salvaged if they outgrow their usefulness, esp. bunkers) to play a key role in defense and map control. It shouldn't be "turtling", but rather, a more strategic use of necessary buildings and an emphasis on creative defense. (Also, 2 or 3 SCVs repairing will be important if they choose to "break" it..)
If the enemy becomes preoccupied with attacking the blockade, find out what unit combination they will use and try to counter it, obviously. If they hit their heads against the wall for long enough, you should constantly be able to gain the advantage and counter-attack/expand. But harassment and "normal" attack is still important, so don't become too preoccupied with the blockade yourself.
in zerg vs zerg, fly your overlord into y our opponents main when he sends his queen out in the open to kill the overlord that is flying away, use that opportuntity to surround and gank the queen with your first batch of lings
People keep trying to get me to do this on my stream I think it's silly But I would laugh so hard if it worked, can only be done on steppes of war though
Mass queen rush from 2 hatch using creep tumor to make a highway to their base.
On March 13 2010 04:34 qxc wrote: Alright. So I've got my 3 ideas.
1. TvZ Early ghost harrass -> marauder play
2. PvP Mass zealots using all extra gas for colossi + charge
3. PvAny Use hallucinate to some great effect. Perhaps to trick them into moving their army to the wrong spot.
My problem now is I don't know how to make the videos under 2 GB so I can upload to youtube. I recorded 5 mins in fraps and it was 4+ GB.
Thoughts?
qxc
Generally recording software will produce completely uncompressed video, and its up to you to compress it (while still being usable). Simply using windows movie maker to edit and compress the videos should be more than enough.
Mass ground units and Abuse the nydus worm. Like spawn worms in their base as soon as they try to move out. Zerglings tear down buildings quickly so an elimination race won't work out well for him. If he moves back, then expand. If he attacks, then leave a few zerglings to tear down his base while using production advantage to defend.
And just abuse nydus worms as much as you can. Like harass at his mineral lines or something.
Videos are going up. I chose the following strategies.
1. Straight tech to baneling + nydus worm. Check out how I just repeatedly decimate the protoss using the nydus worm with banelings and zerglings.
2. Straight tech to colossi with zealots as support vs. T. I save all my gas to use on collossi and they use their giant lasers of doom to decimate my dead dear opponent.
3. Mass queen strategy. There's really not a whole lot to say here. I try and mass queens. Arguably my execution could've been better but definitely worth a watch.
I'm currently uploading the first of these 3 videos to my youtube account - sc2qxc.
Thanks to everyone for their ideas. I /may/ do this again. Havn't decided yet but if you've got some really sick ideas send me a pm and I'll be more likely to check it out.
EPT
