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Nydus too good? - Page 5

Forum Index > SC2 General
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Stropheum
Profile Joined January 2010
United States1124 Posts
March 09 2010 14:35 GMT
#81
On the other hand. I haven't seen a game yet where the zerg player uses the nydus worm to take up a hidden expo. Think about it. You don't have to "waste" the nydus entrance cause you can have more than one exit attached if i recall. Also, you can instantly maynard a bunch of drones to your new base when it's done, gas and all, no matter where it is. This makes for some sick end game defense as well, especially if you have a bunch of hidden infestors creepin around somewhere
Pupsilein
Profile Joined March 2010
Germany17 Posts
March 09 2010 14:35 GMT
#82
I find it is not that easy to use. It's quite expensive, very easily killed and the units pop out only one by one, so half your army could still be in the canal while the other half is demolished. Then you could also forget your troups in the canal while being attacked or all worms could be killed and all troups inside it die as well.
I also second to NOT change it. There are no other ground unit that can walk up cliffs or jump over to islands in the zerg race. Needing creep will almost make it useless for offensive strategies and makes the zerg rely on air to much.
floor exercise
Profile Blog Joined August 2008
Canada5847 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-03-09 14:59:19
March 09 2010 14:55 GMT
#83
I think making it require creep and reducing the cost is a fair adjustment. It makes overlord dropping more appealing and keeps nydus around to be used like a nydus in sc1, as a powerful defensive tool

It can still be used offensively or to take islands etc but right now buildings die so fast that its just not fair to be able to send your whole army into someones base once they move out. It's not like it can't just be done with overlords. Though your units risk death and it requires more than a few clicks to do it and they cant just be like lol back to base if the opponent tries to counter

It takes too much of the calculated risk out of big drops
Koffiegast
Profile Joined February 2010
Netherlands346 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-03-09 17:32:53
March 09 2010 17:29 GMT
#84
They removed the creep requirement because it wouldnt be a surprise anymore.

Besides its really easy to stop if you prevent it.. it will have very few hp at start.. something that isnt the case when you fly over with a couple medivacs.

It can still be used offensively or to take islands etc but right now buildings die so fast that its just not fair to be able to send your whole army into someones base once they move out. It's not like it can't just be done with overlords. Though your units risk death and it requires more than a few clicks to do it and they cant just be like lol back to base if the opponent tries to counter


The very same thing applies for medivacs. You can easily just move your army away when the Zs units come along and go get the next expansion. And I dont really see Z putting up turrets all over the place like T, also.. they dont even have detection like turrets do :/
Wut
floor exercise
Profile Blog Joined August 2008
Canada5847 Posts
March 09 2010 17:37 GMT
#85
medivacs are susceptible to all the downsides overlords are in addition to being more expensive, how are they comparable to nydus?
PizzaHash
Profile Joined February 2010
Netherlands76 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-03-09 19:47:48
March 09 2010 17:39 GMT
#86
Show nested quote +
On March 09 2010 11:38 Liquid`Drone wrote:
only allowing you to build it on creep sounds reasonable.



Not only reasonable, but natural too. I simply assumed it would have to be this way (a la nydus in BW)


Its not a building, its a worm... It should be able to come above ground almost anywhere

Edit: logically speaking it should be able to emerge beneath buildings, and even attack them!
Anzat
Profile Joined February 2009
United States90 Posts
March 09 2010 20:50 GMT
#87
One siege tank can stop any nydus in its range. It will only take one or two tanks to guard your main. One tank for each expansion.


This.
Floophead_III
Profile Joined September 2009
United States1832 Posts
March 09 2010 20:59 GMT
#88
On some maps you're going to need a lot more. Also that forces you to leave 3+ tanks behind every time you move out. That's just wrong. There is 100% something wrong with the current nydus mechanic and I've been talking to my friends in and out of game about it for weeks. There's not even a reason to use overlords as transports anymore. It weakens the strategy of the game.

If you make the nydus only buildable on creep again, it makes it a hell of a lot harder to lay one down, and it fits better strategically (can I get an overlord in to lay creep before it dies?). Honestly, all I really have to say is "wtf blizzard?" I'm tempted to switch to zerg just because they're so unreal imbalanced due to nydus.
Half man, half bear, half pig.
Disastorm
Profile Joined January 2008
United States922 Posts
March 09 2010 21:10 GMT
#89
On March 10 2010 05:59 Floophead_III wrote:
On some maps you're going to need a lot more. Also that forces you to leave 3+ tanks behind every time you move out. That's just wrong.

Is there a reason why its wrong?
"Don't worry so much man. There won't be any more zergs left to QQ. Lots of QQ about TvT is incoming though I bet." - Vrok 9/21/10
wintergt
Profile Joined February 2010
Belgium1335 Posts
March 09 2010 21:16 GMT
#90
It adds more dynamics to the game it's a pretty cool thing. Zerg might need some work but not the nydus. Spread buildings out so you have vision everywhere and some units nearby, you don't have to kill it in 10s perse, even if a few units go through before you kill it it's np. Plus if you are keeping the pressure on the zerg enough it will be hard for him to commit to a nydus.
here i am
Zeke50100
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States2220 Posts
March 09 2010 21:19 GMT
#91
What's wrong with leaving units back behind in your base? What military officer in the right mind would leave his entire base defenseless? If you produce an army and send it just to attack the enemy, what happens when the enemy appropriately divided his forces, rather than basically going "all-in" like you did?

It's your fault if you don't keep at least ONE combat unit in your base. People have to learn that keeping a back-up plan is just dandy.
FabledIntegral
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States9232 Posts
March 09 2010 21:20 GMT
#92
Slow the exit rate in which units exit? Make it as slow as normal units drop out of a medivac, etc. Units would still in essence "pour out" if it was unaccounted for but I think it's retarded that you can have in essence an infinite recall, no matter how underpowered Zerg might be otherwise.
TheGreatWhiteHope
Profile Joined March 2010
Brazil2 Posts
March 09 2010 21:28 GMT
#93
It has just occured to me, but I believe that thing you build in your base is the worm´s ass. A huge worm comes out on the other side and you release your units through it´s mouth.

On the other side it is the worm´s anus. You load things in there. This changes everything.
roflstomp
checo
Profile Joined November 2008
Mexico1364 Posts
March 09 2010 21:32 GMT
#94
On March 10 2010 06:20 FabledIntegral wrote:
Slow the exit rate in which units exit? Make it as slow as normal units drop out of a medivac, etc. Units would still in essence "pour out" if it was unaccounted for but I think it's retarded that you can have in essence an infinite recall, no matter how underpowered Zerg might be otherwise.


+1
El amor no mueve al mundo, ni hace brillar el sol, pero el amor hace latir este corazon....
Comeh
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States18918 Posts
March 09 2010 21:32 GMT
#95
On March 10 2010 06:10 Disastorm wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 10 2010 05:59 Floophead_III wrote:
On some maps you're going to need a lot more. Also that forces you to leave 3+ tanks behind every time you move out. That's just wrong.

Is there a reason why its wrong?

Not having 3 tanks in your main attacking force, and forcing the terran to NOT have that while zerg will be fine not having anything in their base is a HUGE loss.
Of course, if you have a couple more seconds to go back to save your base (a la recall), its fine. But the zerg's nydus just seems a little too strong. Tough to say whether this is due to playing styles or balance though.
ヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノDELETE ICEFROGヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(
sythax
Profile Joined May 2009
Scotland57 Posts
March 09 2010 21:33 GMT
#96
why in the hell would a nydus need to uproot on creep?
(。◕‿‿◕。)
starcraft911
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
Korea (South)1263 Posts
March 09 2010 21:35 GMT
#97
You have an OL there anyways... making it take 1 second longer to poo some creep juice on the ground isn't going to be revolutionary.

A single tank (non siege mode) will prevent a nydus worm from finishing.

If they decided to doom drop you have < 10 seconds to respond before their units are on the ground and they don't come out 1 at a time. I've been playing Terran mostly and with the pressure I keep on my opponents they really don't have the 300 (i think?) gas to spend on the network and worm unless they already had a clear advantage.
Zeke50100
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States2220 Posts
March 09 2010 21:46 GMT
#98
On March 10 2010 06:32 Comeh wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 10 2010 06:10 Disastorm wrote:
On March 10 2010 05:59 Floophead_III wrote:
On some maps you're going to need a lot more. Also that forces you to leave 3+ tanks behind every time you move out. That's just wrong.

Is there a reason why its wrong?

Not having 3 tanks in your main attacking force, and forcing the terran to NOT have that while zerg will be fine not having anything in their base is a HUGE loss.
Of course, if you have a couple more seconds to go back to save your base (a la recall), its fine. But the zerg's nydus just seems a little too strong. Tough to say whether this is due to playing styles or balance though.


What happens when you drop them as a Terran?

OH, RIGHT, THE SAME THING.

The only argument that remains is that you "only" need sight for a Nydus, and that a Nydus has infinite capacity. Well, setting an Overlord on top of the land isn't going to be revolutionary. A Nydus takes time to "build," and that time basically makes up for the fact that you can't see the Overlord sometimes.

As for the infinite capacity, that might be a problem. However, Medivacs can heal, and Warp Prisms can emit Pylon power for Warp Gates/Proxy Cannons. I don't know if those factors completely balance out the infinite capacity, but it definitely isn't "lol imba"

Stop complaining about being dropped by a Zerg via Nydus; you've been dropping them for ages.
Nightmarjoo
Profile Blog Joined October 2006
United States3360 Posts
March 10 2010 03:29 GMT
#99
On March 10 2010 05:50 Anzat wrote:
Show nested quote +
One siege tank can stop any nydus in its range. It will only take one or two tanks to guard your main. One tank for each expansion.


This.

This isn't a bad idea, I think it's analogous to leaving hts, reavers, and defilers at expansions in bw. While yes it sucks to be a few tanks short, it should be a manageable lack I'd think, not having tried this myself yet.
aka Lyra; My favourites: July, Stork, Draco, MistrZZZ, TheStc, LastShadow - www.broodwarmaps.net - for all your mapping needs; check my stream: high masters mech terran: twitch.tv/lyrathegreat
Ryuu314
Profile Joined October 2009
United States12679 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-03-10 06:24:32
March 10 2010 06:23 GMT
#100
Requiring creep to be planted seems like the best idea. It fits with lore and it still allows it to be quite viable while making it a little weaker.

I've seen some vods of players creeping the area (unnecessarily) before building a nydus and they still pull it off rather well if the Terran doesn't spot it in time.

TBH, I think it's really just a less risky version of the Zerg doom drop with speed ovies.
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