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On October 24 2009 02:11 PiLLs( SLiP) wrote:
Hi guys ive read from this site for a while but just made an account, really like this site but i cannot hold my silence any longer...
Idra is a faggot. Im sorry, ive watched countless reps and I dont know if hes serious or not but everytime he gets formally raped by cars he says things that make me think he'd be better of playing US East Server with all the other ignorant bastards who cant effectively counter carriers.
Saying something like that to DRACO of all people...what is he 16? (really i dont know seems like it though)
Bottom line is id like to see some better sportsmanship from the pros. What does this have to do at all with the topic of the thread you are currently posting in?
Edit: A picture from the OP I guess?
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I dont get whats so wrong about that game, but I play T, so I dont claim to understand PvZ too good (I was D+ at Z before i went T tho')
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On October 24 2009 02:11 PiLLs( SLiP) wrote:
Hi guys ive read from this site for a while but just made an account, really like this site but i cannot hold my silence any longer...
Idra is a faggot. Im sorry, ive watched countless reps and I dont know if hes serious or not but everytime he gets formally raped by cars he says things that make me think he'd be better of playing US East Server with all the other ignorant bastards who cant effectively counter carriers.
Saying something like that to DRACO of all people...what is he 16? (really i dont know seems like it though)
Bottom line is id like to see some better sportsmanship from the pros.
USER WAS WARNED FOR THIS POST
ROFL i kinda agree, but wtf?
OT:
Considering dropships and marauders are like unstoppable (especially since dropships now have amazing health it seems), I do think stim packs should take maybe 20-30 hp.
At the moment, the only complaint I have about Terran is that every unit / building looks like a freaking toy - why couldn't they make the units shiny / metallic rather than just "different shades of gray?" Zerg looks awesome, Protoss looks awesome, Terran looks gay. As for unit balance / Terran identity... well, SC2 hasn't even come out yet, so.........
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Excuse me for not elaborating on terran units but I'd just like to say that terran looks too cartoon-ish right now. Maybe they will change the graphics but I think terran basically looks better now in SC1 than in SC2. Anyone agree?
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I agree with the sentiment that "this is a new game, things don't have to be the same", but that's not entirely the case. SC2 is a sequel to the original. SOME basic things should conform conceptually, no?
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Sorry for spam but..
+ Show Spoiler +LOL at 9:55 of JangBi vs Calm vod LOL I laughed for 3 min straight..
But seriously... Calm looked very calm (no pun intended really) and JangBi looked really nervous.. So gj to JangBi even though bad game.
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Really, the terran identity is "human". Which basically means all the baggage of real life, real sci-fi and all that which can not be summed up on a post.
Marines isn't exactly a Zergling. Make marines fast running feral leaping warriors and everything would change (and whining immense). Zergling could be made into just about anything (including ones that are big, green and explodes) and few would really care since Zerg lacks baggage of the human identity. It doesn't matter if a protoss or zerg unit has 'sensible' abilities since their technology is too strange so people won't really wonder why they don't warp missiles into the enemy base under pylon power or just how nydus work in unconnected space platforms or why scourge can't attack ground. However, people would doubt fighters that can't anti-air, tanks that lacks big guns, big mecha that don't own, buggies that looks ghetto and infantry with good defense.
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and you guys think that terrans going to mass bulid each type of production buildings to make mass of all units for every situation? the reason why you need to chose between mech and infranty in sc1 is upgrades and tech research. terran upgrades are expensive and come for 3 unit types (infranty/mech/air) so you cant keep it up with all of them so terran is forced to chose one type. it seems that in sc2 terran need to mix at least two types of units to fight other races what is imo imba cause this will cost a hell amount of resources.
viking should be factory unit and thor could take a role as lyer of fear and destruction like ultra or carrier, cause in sc1 terrans lacks of such a thing
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Viking Should be a factory unit, make both it and the Thor require the Armory (make the Armory take as long/longer than the Starport to build) and give the Thor a lift of ability similar to BW Terran buildings(unable to attack and slow to move but still flying)... this way the armory is the "factory->air" converting building.
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One thing to take in note, is the original plans that blizzard appears to have had for the three races. To do so, lets look at each of the tier 1 units.
Zerg Zerglings:
You get 2 for 1, they are cheap, fast, squishy, and sharp. Very offensive unit, one of the best units in the game at taking out buildings like nobodies business.
Zerg Intended Identity, Aggressive!
Protoss Zealots:
Tons of HP, mostly do damage to things by using their own splash against them. Big, expensive, and stick them on top of a ramp if you want to reenact 300.
Protoss Intended Identity, Defensive!
This is further supported by what I have heard on reavers. I remember it being said that they were made to move so slow because they were intended to be a defensive unit, left at a base to hang back and, essentially, fill the role that the siege tank took.
Terran Marines:
They cost more than a zergling but less than a zealot. They generally deal less damage than zerglings and are not as tough as a zealot is. They are inbetween, versatile, and I feel that this is the original idea of terran, not turtling.
Terran Intended Identity, Versatile!
But what about siege tanks, you say? Isn't that the most defensive unit EVAR?
By the name of siege tanks, it is implied that they were intended to be used offensively, more often parked outside the enemy base for a contain than on top of your ledge for a turtle. I believe that this was intended as an aggressive unit, used mainly for sieges on the opponents base, only used in defense in clutch situations. Terran Vs Zerg reflects this fairly well, when a bio army is used.
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The Marauder and the Thor are the embodiment of the Terran identitycrisis. They are generic attackmove units.
Lets look at the Marauder. An antiground specialist.
We have terran antiground specialsts in Broodwar. What is different this time.
The terran vulture and firebat had apparent weaknesses.
Besides the natural weakness to air those units had other drawbacks.
The firebat has a very short range. A huge damagereduction vs bigger units and very low hitpoints.
The vulture has better range. OK hitpoints but a special ability that can backfire when used wrong or when well exploited by the enemy (minedrag, zealotbombs).
The Marauder is a Cryptfiend with a weak slow. I'm not saying there is something wrong with WC3 units. The feeling I get from this unit is it does not belong in SC and SC2. I'm not talking about the looks or lore obviously but the mechanics and tactical use of this unit.
It is a ""í'm am going to wear you down by costefficiently trading armies""-UNIT. It is the dullest kind of play to safely expand a small advantage. It is what basically killed other RTS-titles. I made more stuff so I win. With minimal micro and very little oppertunity to get countered.
The first time I saw the Marauder and learned what it does I thought oh no Blizzard put a Cryptfiend/Huntress in Starcraft. It seemed Blizzard forgot what made the Terrans feel like Terrans.
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Musoeun: Your post was hilarious.  The pictures were an excellent touch.
Please, post about more subjects.
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On October 24 2009 02:11 PiLLs( SLiP) wrote:
Hi guys ive read from this site for a while but just made an account, really like this site but i cannot hold my silence any longer...
Idra is a faggot. Im sorry, ive watched countless reps and I dont know if hes serious or not but everytime he gets formally raped by cars he says things that make me think he'd be better of playing US East Server with all the other ignorant bastards who cant effectively counter carriers.
Saying something like that to DRACO of all people...what is he 16? (really i dont know seems like it though)
Bottom line is id like to see some better sportsmanship from the pros.
USER WAS WARNED FOR THIS POST
Why did this post warrant a ban?
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Sweden33719 Posts
He's not banned? He got warned because his post is not only off-topic but definitely threatening to derail the thread.
Not a big deal but seems like a standard warning to me.
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Terrans always seem like a race that specialize in everything. Terrans have units that sacrifices their speed for more firing power and units that sacrifice high HP/Firing power to speed. A classic example is Bionic vs Mech. Bionics are faster than Mech but Mech are definitely stronger. I wish they bought the Medics and Firebats back or something. I mean I don't really mind a unit that can jump over cliffs and stuff but the having a Dropship to heal an army isn't exactly what I had in mind.
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Well problems I can see with the Marauder
1. minimal vulnerability ... it is an armored unit with an anti armored attack... best counter=light unit with anti armored attack.... which is the... Hydralisk? don't know of any other ones (GtG units at least)
2. Stim... ridiculous on the Marauder, an 8% drop in hp for a move And attack speed boost?
I'd either remove it or make it cost at Least 20-25 hp [removing it 'seems' more right]
If I were going to change things, I'd focus on the Marauder and take away stim, and make it slightly slower (so they can more easily get separated from their hellion support)
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I don't mean to rant, just my 2cents.
On October 23 2009 13:20 Musoeun wrote:
Let's try and build this army. We'll call the Marine our basic unit, while recognizing that despite all buffs they're probably not going to be too useful against Protoss at least by mid-game. They don't take damage well and storm looks, if possible, more deadly (meaning less dodgeable). As our main damage-dealer, tank and siege unit, we've still got the siege tank. So the meat-and-potatoes is still in place. The rest then should fit in as support units, correct? So it could look like:
By as a tank you mean unit soaking damage? I disagree  so far they have the same or similar HP while being more expensive in both resources and supply?
- Banshee - we can make Reapers a little weaker than vultures, because by mid-/late-game we have the Banshee, which looks like it's primarily a raider. Sure it can provide some air support as well (kind of like a pimped-out wraith, I guess), but I don't see that as its main function.
What if they pan out to be "mutas of TvP", picking out HTs and other important stuff?
Ghost doesn't have to be the only answer
- Thor - it's massive, and as anything other than late-game battlemech of awesome there's another unit doing its job. Keep it relatively short range, give it a lot of HP but (relatively) low damage - like a walking battlecruiser. Make it vulnerable to air, and slow. Maybe use some of the abilities mentioned in the discussion thread. Use it as the real alternative the battlecruisers for late-game awesome, and
Everything you wrote would mean no one would make them if they seem to people slow as they are in BR4 IMO, it would be exactly like BC in BW - made only in TvTs and I think this unit can do more.
The problem with BR4 is there was no Immortals, at some point both armies looked to similar so ultimately Thor had no meaning too it - there was no clear situations shown where having Thor meant advantage or disadvantage (when resources should of been spent on something different).
Once we see a game with units used properly not a game that is supposed to spark discussions there can be real debating if making Thor can be clearly gainful or not :/
Now, this is a first-approximation sketch of something that makes sense to me. I'm not necessarily right, I'm just not liking the way Terran looks right now - there's a glut of unspecialized tier 1.5-2.5 units that just are getting in each other's way instead of being used together to fit the Terran mentality of the whole being greater than the sum of the parts. If all the units are well-rounded, there's no point to having lots of different kinds. The solution to me seems obvious: un-round the units.
As far as I know in the beginnings of SC people had no idea how to use Vultures properly too.
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EPT
