[D] Blizzcon: How'd you feel about SC2? - Page 4
Forum Index > SC2 General |
0neder
United States3733 Posts
| ||
Ideas
United States7956 Posts
My biggest gripe is that there are just a lot (well okay not that much) of dumb stuff in the game (specifically every Zerg spell is totally dumb except for the queen larva/creep tumor and olords dropping creep). spawn infested marines is totally lame, unzergy, and unstarcrafy. the temporary mindcontrol thing seems pretty useless although I dunno (could be good with good infester micro, but seems like too much attention for too little a gain unless you can like MC a templar really quick before a battle and cast it's storms on the other players army or something), changeling is lame and seems useless (especially when zerg is already the race best at scouting anyway), acid spore might be good if it's AoE and not just for 1 unit. Mothership is totally useless. as far as macro mechanics go, I think Zerg is by far the best/most interesting/strategy-changing now, Terran next best, and protoss the worst. The new focus on queens and larva/creep management is a whole lot of fun and adds a whole lot more to base-management and macro and allows for so much more diversity in playing the game (that is until the games out for a while and we learn most stuff sucks). The Terran's new stuff with the MULEs is kinda cool but only really 1 step above the protoss' horrible "build this building and then click on it and cast this spell every 30 seconds" that is only 1 step above the horrible "mine from other geyser every 2 minutes" from last year. I really hope blizzard works on making terran and protoss macro mechanics as interesting as the zerg is. every match-up seems like it will be a whole lot different now. You absolutely cannot go mech/mass tanks vs protoss now as terran. Stalkers just absolutely destroy tanks (not to mention it seems blizzard made every protoss unit specifically designed to be 10x better vs Terran mech balls with zeal charge, blinking stalkers, and "tank-immunity" immortals). It feels like Terran needs to go primarily bio every matchup now, and so they inevitably want to get a lot of medivacs, which basically makes late-game Terran in any match-up in SC2 like lategame TvT in Sc1 (IE a ton of dropships airlifting their entire army every where). I'm most excited in terms of new ways to play match-ups for ZvZ, which I have NO IDEA how it will turn out. lings are still great, but balelings > lings, roaches > banelings, and hydra > roaches (but < lings?). Corrupters and hydras are REALLY good vs mutas too. I really have no idea how ZvZ will turn out, not even factoring in queens. It looks like it has the potential to be much more dynamic than ZvZ in SC1, and even more dynamic than the other mirrors in SC2. | ||
Ideas
United States7956 Posts
On August 24 2009 12:08 0neder wrote: We haven't seen Nydus/creep drop used legitly in a game yet, and I really wish we would. Maybe dropping creep before/right as a battle is starting will turn the tide? Maybe Zerg players just haven't realized how to use their tools effectively yet? it's best to keep in mind that no one has any idea wtf they are doing in SC2 right now. | ||
General Nuke Em
United States680 Posts
Planetary fortress could be interesting dumb cheese. Proxy 14 CC -> ebay -> float CC into enemy's base/natural/choke and upgrade to fortress. | ||
0neder
United States3733 Posts
On August 24 2009 12:56 General Nuke Em wrote: I actually really don't like the Terran macro mechanic. It comes from the orbital command upgrade, for the command center (the other is the planetary fortress). It provides comsat, the mule, and some supply depot upgrade to give more supply. However, since all of these share the same energy pool, if you want to use the mule to boost your economy (like how the protoss can use the dark pylon and zerg gets the queen to spam out ridiculous numbers of units), you need to sacrifice the ability to use comsat. Maybe comsat will be less important in SC2, but being able to scout without scouting units was a pretty big thing for terran. I think the problem here is that the toss/zerg alternatives aren't as compelling as the Terran comsat. If they are made more compelling, then it is more fair and balanced. | ||
Ideas
United States7956 Posts
Anyone else win anything at SC2? edit- holy shit I just looked up the prices of the stuff I won on razor's site; 40$ mousepad and 80$ headset! goddamn that's awesome. I'd feel even better if I knew it was because I earned it and it wasnt just totally random, but whatever, <3 blizzard/razor! | ||
Aegraen
United States1225 Posts
On August 24 2009 13:15 0neder wrote: I think the problem here is that the toss/zerg alternatives aren't as compelling as the Terran comsat. If they are made more compelling, then it is more fair and balanced. The only way to do that is to make it something that can either make you win or lose the game like COMSAT. So, can you think of anything that you would use early for Toss or Zerg that if you didn't use you would lose automatically? It's quite a conundrum. Instead of comparing it to COMSAT, perhaps something else that could compete with Larva and Resource in it's functionality. Perhaps for Toss an AoE cloak that can cloak buildings and units. For Zerg, AoE regen to both units and buildings healing 200HP every 4 seconds for 8 seconds. (Buff to the Queens heal ability) | ||
Ideas
United States7956 Posts
| ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On August 24 2009 13:49 Aegraen wrote: Perhaps for Toss an AoE cloak that can cloak buildings and units. For Zerg, AoE regen to both units and buildings healing 200HP every 4 seconds for 8 seconds. (Buff to the Queens heal ability) The problem is that those don't really compete with ComSat at all. ComSat is almost always useful, and using it multiple times gives you significant benefit. Those 2 abilities on the other hand, are pretty narrow (only useful reactively), and don't become that much more useful with multiple castings. Additionally, ComSat's usefulness scales very well with player skill (a player with good timing/game-sense can know where/when to scan), whereas those 2 abilities don't as well (the cloaking sort of does, but again, only in a reactive manner). | ||
Aegraen
United States1225 Posts
On August 24 2009 14:10 TheYango wrote: The problem is that those don't really compete with ComSat at all. ComSat is almost always useful, and using it multiple times gives you significant benefit. Those 2 abilities on the other hand, are pretty narrow (only useful reactively), and don't become that much more useful with multiple castings. Additionally, ComSat's usefulness scales very well with player skill (a player with good timing/game-sense can know where/when to scan), whereas those 2 abilities don't as well (the cloaking sort of does, but again, only in a reactive manner). Like I said, NOTHING can compete with Comsat in its usefulness because scouting is the most useful "skill/ability" in the game. Stop trying to compare other races abilities to COMSAT. It won't work like that. Think of abilities that either make or beak you (Win/Lose - like COMSAT), and abilities that have a comparative usefulness to the other abilities. There isn't much you can really do. I'd like you to try and think of something that is on par to a free scan that reveals cloaked units. Also, Cloak isn't totally reactive. You can pre-emptively use it when you know when most Terrans use their first scan to deny them a scout. You can also use it to cloak a proxy base when you see a unit incoming to that area. | ||
Krikkitone
United States1451 Posts
1. There was an Obelisk energy pool 2. Obelisks were cheaper and faster to build (adjust energy cost of abilities to balance) so that Proxy Obelisks would be possible. The shield regenerator could become very useful in the battlefield especially if it had autocast capability.... and if it could be applied to buildings. (ie you could sacifice your ability to cast proton charge to get units/buildings that are nearly invulnerable... at least until you ran out of energy from all your Obelisks) As for the Queen's Heal it can definitely apply to buildings, but if it was made cheaper it might be more useful. (200 hp is also useful on Broodlords and Ultralisks... and if cheap enough it would be useful on units with ~150 hp damage, ie Corrupters and Lurkers) Cloaking wouldn't be useful v. comsats because comsat is a detector. | ||
houseurmusic
United States544 Posts
On August 24 2009 13:50 Ideas wrote: oh yeah the queen had a spell that would regen 200hp instantly to any zerg unit (I think buildings too?). so completely useless unless you use it on an ultra (or if it's also for buildings that'd actually be good for spine crawlers/hatcheries). it does work on a building | ||
Chill
Calgary25938 Posts
| ||
onmach
United States1241 Posts
| ||
starPride
United States142 Posts
On August 25 2009 03:57 onmach wrote: Perhaps queens would be useful for something other than larvae if they could move off the creep? I realize that would require some rebalancing. And deffending bases. Larvae can also be used for timings attacks can it not? I mean. You still have to manage the larvae ur getting whether u want it to go to ECO or create an army. | ||
Rebel_lion
United States271 Posts
| ||
Tsagacity
United States2124 Posts
On August 25 2009 05:28 Rebel_lion wrote: You need vision of the drop spot. Even if you could, a scan would still be better for cloaked units, and the mule would probably lose all it's mining time traveling back to your base.Can't you drop a mule anywhere? thats like a scan in its own. | ||
Ideas
United States7956 Posts
On August 25 2009 03:57 onmach wrote: Perhaps queens would be useful for something other than larvae if they could move off the creep? I realize that would require some rebalancing. queens can move off creep (but they move much faster on creep). I think creep/spine crawler pushes are a valid strategy (sorta a new form of proxy-hatch). | ||
Meta
United States6225 Posts
Most of the games I played were protoss vs protoss. The first game or two both of us just massed stalkers. Blink is really fun to micro with. Stalkers > Zealots. Around the third game I found that Immortals >>> Stalkers. Immortals are one of the basic units from the robo fac. They cost 250m, 150g and 4 supply. Throwing in 2 or 3 immortals in a group of stalkers will tip the scales in your favor. However, zealots are actually pretty good against immortals after they have charge. So, the rock-paper-scissors of PvP seems to be Immortals > Stalkers > Zealots > Immortals. The colossus is a fun harass unit. It's the same tech path as the reaver from SC1. It costs 300m, 200g and (I think) 4 supply. They seem pretty easy to sneak into bases, however are easily countered by just running your workers to an expansion. Depending on their reaction time you can pretty much kill a few workers no matter what. However, with only one colossus it's hard to kill more than a couple workers initially, and since workers are faster than them they aren't extremely deadly on their own. There was one game where my opponent got an early mothership and the black hole spell is very good. It works almost exactly like stasis, except it's a huge area of effect and it stays there for about 20 seconds. Any unit that walks into it disappears until the cast ends. Basically the one game I saw with the mothership, I was able to snipe it with about 20 stalkers fairly quickly, but the black hole ate my stalkers and while they were gone my opponent charged into my base and I couldn't do anything, and I ended up losing. The mothership is actually built from the nexus, with the prerequisite being a fleet beacon. I also played a game as terran, and went 2 port banshee harass which was very successful. A group of 8 or so banshees can kill a nexus/cc/hatch in about 10 seconds. I was really surprised at how quickly they ate through buildings. They are less effective against workers because their attack time is relatively slow, but they are also really good as support against stalkers and other ground units. Their health and armor is really comparable to wraiths. Also in my game as terran I made a bunch of tanks, and noticed a few things. First of all, I don't think their attack range is longer than their sight range anymore. In addition, I think I noticed that they don't have as much as a no-fire zone while sieged. I could be wrong there, though. | ||
Archerofaiur
United States4101 Posts
On August 25 2009 05:36 Tsagacity wrote: You need vision of the drop spot. Even if you could, a scan would still be better for cloaked units, and the mule would probably lose all it's mining time traveling back to your base. Is it vision or you need a unit nearby? If I comsat could I then drop a MULE? | ||
| ||