Formula 1 Discussion - Page 37
Forum Index > Sports |
Join the TLnet's F1 Fantasy before the season begins! https://fantasy.formula1.com/ Code: ce956688bf Thank you KobraKay for making the league. :D | ||
mderg
Germany1737 Posts
| ||
Excludos
Norway7678 Posts
| ||
Ben...
Canada3485 Posts
On September 07 2020 04:43 mderg wrote: While I'm happy for Gasly this was one of the least deserved wins I can remember. McLaren kinda got robbed. They did everything right and had the speed but lost because of circumstances outside of their control. Without Leclerc's crash and Hamilton's penalty, McLaren were on course for a comfortable double podium. With the Hamilton penalty only it would have been Sainz in P1 and Norris P2 or P3 but the two people who did strategy gambles ended up shuffled ahead of the McLarens when the red flags came out. I'm happy for Gasly but it did feel somewhat like Kvyat's podium last year where he basically had a bunch of separate circumstances fall into his lap and a gamble ended up working out. The rule allowing tire changes in red flag situation definitely needs looking at. I thought that was already banned after Australia 2016 but I guess it wasn't. Stroll's been performing well recently but really, he got that podium because he was able to skip a pit stop when pretty much nobody else was able to. | ||
mderg
Germany1737 Posts
On September 07 2020 07:37 Ben... wrote: McLaren kinda got robbed. They did everything right and had the speed but lost because of circumstances outside of their control. Without Leclerc's crash and Hamilton's penalty, McLaren were on course for a comfortable double podium. With the Hamilton penalty only it would have been Sainz in P1 and Norris P2 or P3 but the two people who did strategy gambles ended up shuffled ahead of the McLarens when the red flags came out. I'm happy for Gasly but it did feel somewhat like Kvyat's podium last year where he basically had a bunch of separate circumstances fall into his lap and a gamble ended up working out. The rule allowing tire changes in red flag situation definitely needs looking at. I thought that was already banned after Australia 2016 but I guess it wasn't. Stroll's been performing well recently but really, he got that podium because he was able to skip a pit stop when pretty much nobody else was able to. It wasn't even a strategy gamble for Gasly. He just pitted slightly early because he couldn't keep up with the car in front and was holding up Kvyat. Then the safety car with a closed pit lane happened and he got up to p3 without doing anything for it. With Kvyat in Germany last year you could at least argue that he/his team judged the conditions better than the others. Stroll was ridiculously lucky with that strategy gamble. The red flag rules should probably be looked at. | ||
TheEmulator
28057 Posts
| ||
Ben...
Canada3485 Posts
On September 07 2020 07:48 mderg wrote: It wasn't even a strategy gamble for Gasly. He just pitted slightly early because he couldn't keep up with the car in front and was holding up Kvyat. Then the safety car with a closed pit lane happened and he got up to p3 without doing anything for it. With Kvyat in Germany last year you could at least argue that he/his team judged the conditions better than the others. Stroll was ridiculously lucky with that strategy gamble. The red flag rules should probably be looked at. Oh right I forgot about that bit. So much happened around that time. I forgot that Gasly was slowing down Kvyat so he pitted early. Thanks for the clarification. Yeah the red flag rules are iffy at best. The tire stuff is silly but also seeing Mercedes and Red Bull trying to replace a bunch of cooling parts on Bottas' and Verstappen's cars also seemed wrong. Being able to replace broken parts with like for like during the red flag seems dumb because it purely comes down to luck whether someone is able to or not. Albon for example couldn't change out his shredded floor because they couldn't lift the car but because the parts on Bottas' car that were to be replaced were accessible, they went ahead with trying to. It should be all or nothing and not on a case-by-case basis. Having many stewarding judgments be on a case-by-case basis is a big part of why F1's stewarding has a bad reputation. It looks and feels inherently unfair. | ||
digmouse
China6279 Posts
On September 07 2020 07:37 Ben... wrote: McLaren kinda got robbed. They did everything right and had the speed but lost because of circumstances outside of their control. Without Leclerc's crash and Hamilton's penalty, McLaren were on course for a comfortable double podium. With the Hamilton penalty only it would have been Sainz in P1 and Norris P2 or P3 but the two people who did strategy gambles ended up shuffled ahead of the McLarens when the red flags came out. I'm happy for Gasly but it did feel somewhat like Kvyat's podium last year where he basically had a bunch of separate circumstances fall into his lap and a gamble ended up working out. The rule allowing tire changes in red flag situation definitely needs looking at. I thought that was already banned after Australia 2016 but I guess it wasn't. Stroll's been performing well recently but really, he got that podium because he was able to skip a pit stop when pretty much nobody else was able to. The rule is there to allow for tyre type changes, since red flags nowadays is very usually used in changing weather conditions. | ||
digmouse
China6279 Posts
On September 07 2020 04:43 mderg wrote: While I'm happy for Gasly this was one of the least deserved wins I can remember. No win is undeserved in F1. | ||
Lmui
Canada6155 Posts
| ||
Aristodemus
England1969 Posts
Karma for Ferrari too. | ||
bluzi
4703 Posts
On September 07 2020 07:03 Excludos wrote: While the race was clearly improved by not having a Merc 1-2, the top positions basically came down to a lottery. The decision behind that red flag boggles my mind. McLaren deserved to be on top there, but oh well. Racing is racing I suppose What do you mean McLaren deserved the top spot ? once we are in the lottery world i.e not winning on pace/merit I feel you cannot have "deserved" , the "deserved" top spot was without a doubt reserved to Lewis Hamilton , who CRUSHED this race , I am a Ferrari fan so its not about fandom , also why does the red flag is not appropriate ? not sure I follow , there was a car in a very dangerous place , you need to remove that car and fix the barriers , that takes time , you cannot have a safety car for 30 minutes , I feel this was a correct red flag as we want to see them racing and not doing most of the laps behind a SC or VSC. "While the race was clearly improved by not having a Merc 1-2" - cannot agree more , I cannot stand the current situation we have where we need chaos to have any chance to dethrone the mercs , and yes I am a salty Ferrari fan , but also I am an F1 fan , and this is the worst period of F1 , 85% of polls/wins is trouncing the the Ferrari/redbull domination. | ||
bluzi
4703 Posts
On September 07 2020 17:11 Lmui wrote: Some wins are lucky, but no win is undeserved. Gasly worked fucking hard to keep Sainz out of DRS. Any non-Mercedes win in this era involves some luck. "Any non-Mercedes win in this era involves some luck." - The F1 hybrid era summarised in one sentence , kudos! I have this feeling which I think is shared with a lot of fans , that due to the domination and budget of the mercs they are free to develop the 2022 car earlier then most , and once we move to the new regulations and budget caps , they will again be miles ahead of the field , and Ferrari/RedBull won't be able to outspend to catch up , sad days ahead for the rest of the year and 2021 , and probably soul crushing sadness awaits in 2022. | ||
LennX
4489 Posts
On September 07 2020 23:43 bluzi wrote: I have this feeling which I think is shared with a lot of fans , that due to the domination and budget of the mercs they are free to develop the 2022 car earlier then most , and once we move to the new regulations and budget caps , they will again be miles ahead of the field , and Ferrari/RedBull won't be able to outspend to catch up , sad days ahead for the rest of the year and 2021 , and probably soul crushing sadness awaits in 2022. I disagree with this. If Ferrari are not pouring most of their current resources on the 2022 engine spec, then wtf are they doing? The 2021 engine will not see much improvement due to the current token upgrade system while 2020 is already written off. They are currently on an estimated 450m euro yearly budget. They should have more than enough to do something properly. RBR have the excuse of waiting for Honda to make a 2022 engine prototype before designing their car on it. | ||
Ben...
Canada3485 Posts
On September 07 2020 23:43 bluzi wrote: "Any non-Mercedes win in this era involves some luck." - The F1 hybrid era summarised in one sentence , kudos! I have this feeling which I think is shared with a lot of fans , that due to the domination and budget of the mercs they are free to develop the 2022 car earlier then most , and once we move to the new regulations and budget caps , they will again be miles ahead of the field , and Ferrari/RedBull won't be able to outspend to catch up , sad days ahead for the rest of the year and 2021 , and probably soul crushing sadness awaits in 2022. There's actually been restrictions in place banning the development of 2022 cars for most of the year since March. The teams are explicitly not allowed to work on them until next year specifically because they don't want this scenario to happen. Even so, Merc will still likely end up with an advantage since they can probably just show up at race one of next year with a 0.75 second advantage, run that car unchanged the whole year, and still probably win while using all their development resources the entire year to develop their new car instead of just part of the year like most other teams will be stuck doing. And given their main competitors are stuck with their current problematic chassis for next year, it'll probably not be too unrealistic for Merc to do this. Ferrari's stuck with their draggy car and bad engines due to development restrictions and Red Bull seems to still not have a grasp on the fundamental issues their car has had for the last two years. McLaren will be on the back foot next year also since they have to use nearly all their development tokens (yes those are back for next year) on their Mercedes engine switch. In some ways, it seems like next year could be even more one-sided than this year has been. | ||
bluzi
4703 Posts
On September 08 2020 01:19 LennX wrote: I disagree with this. If Ferrari are not pouring most of their current resources on the 2022 engine spec, then wtf are they doing? The 2021 engine will not see much improvement due to the current token upgrade system while 2020 is already written off. They are currently on an estimated 450m euro yearly budget. They should have more than enough to do something properly. RBR have the excuse of waiting for Honda to make a 2022 engine prototype before designing their car on it. I think they are under pressure to turn this around ASAP , every race that goes by with Ferrari being this bad is -- for the brand , the pressure is immense on the team, I dont think they are in the mindset of "2022 or bust" , and I dont think it will go well to have a 2020 repeat in 2021. | ||
bluzi
4703 Posts
On September 08 2020 01:19 Ben... wrote: There's actually been restrictions in place banning the development of 2022 cars for most of the year since March. The teams are explicitly not allowed to work on them until next year specifically because they don't want this scenario to happen. Even so, Merc will still likely end up with an advantage since they can probably just show up at race one of next year with a 0.75 second advantage, run that car unchanged the whole year, and still probably win while using all their development resources the entire year to develop their new car instead of just part of the year like most other teams will be stuck doing. And given their main competitors are stuck with their current problematic chassis for next year, it'll probably not be too unrealistic for Merc to do this. Ferrari's stuck with their draggy car and bad engines due to development restrictions and Red Bull seems to still not have a grasp on the fundamental issues their car has had for the last two years. McLaren will be on the back foot next year also since they have to use nearly all their development tokens (yes those are back for next year) on their Mercedes engine switch. In some ways, it seems like next year could be even more one-sided than this year has been. I was not aware that the teams cannot develop for 2022 , lets hope they indeed follow that rule to really give everyone as much of an equal chance to catch up. The most annoying thing about the mercs , is not that they are so good , is that they are so good AND are not in favour of competition , and in that I mean that they dont want another Rosberg caliber driver in the team , I guess the internal stress in the team was too much for them in 2016 , for me as a fan that season was MUCH MUCH better even as a Ferrari fan as we got real competition at the front , the Ham vs Bot era is really taking the sting out of the season and we are left looking for crumbs to enjoy , I like the midfield battles for sure , but praying for some sort of chaos so we can have good racing at the front is sad , Mercs could've gotten VER easily and we could've had the craziest seasons ever , Mercs would still lock out the WDC/WCC but boy oh boy would we gotten our money worth seeing 2 amazing drivers going at it , seeing HAM beat VER would be the ultimate stamp for HAM to be the goat , the fact that mercs are shying from a 2016 is sad , this is the main reason I hope someone else will win , even if its not Ferrari. | ||
WombaT
Northern Ireland20682 Posts
On September 08 2020 15:46 bluzi wrote: I was not aware that the teams cannot develop for 2022 , lets hope they indeed follow that rule to really give everyone as much of an equal chance to catch up. The most annoying thing about the mercs , is not that they are so good , is that they are so good AND are not in favour of competition , and in that I mean that they dont want another Rosberg caliber driver in the team , I guess the internal stress in the team was too much for them in 2016 , for me as a fan that season was MUCH MUCH better even as a Ferrari fan as we got real competition at the front , the Ham vs Bot era is really taking the sting out of the season and we are left looking for crumbs to enjoy , I like the midfield battles for sure , but praying for some sort of chaos so we can have good racing at the front is sad , Mercs could've gotten VER easily and we could've had the craziest seasons ever , Mercs would still lock out the WDC/WCC but boy oh boy would we gotten our money worth seeing 2 amazing drivers going at it , seeing HAM beat VER would be the ultimate stamp for HAM to be the goat , the fact that mercs are shying from a 2016 is sad , this is the main reason I hope someone else will win , even if its not Ferrari. It would be great for the sport for sure. Part of why Hamilton’s debut season was so exciting was he was up against Fernando Alonso and was trading blows right out the bat. Plus obviously Kimi with Ferrari actually won that season. We’ll see, maybe Hamilton will want that kind of challenge again when he ticks off Schumey’s records | ||
Excludos
Norway7678 Posts
On September 07 2020 23:37 bluzi wrote: What do you mean McLaren deserved the top spot ? once we are in the lottery world i.e not winning on pace/merit I feel you cannot have "deserved" , the "deserved" top spot was without a doubt reserved to Lewis Hamilton , who CRUSHED this race , I am a Ferrari fan so its not about fandom , also why does the red flag is not appropriate ? not sure I follow , there was a car in a very dangerous place , you need to remove that car and fix the barriers , that takes time , you cannot have a safety car for 30 minutes , I feel this was a correct red flag as we want to see them racing and not doing most of the laps behind a SC or VSC. "While the race was clearly improved by not having a Merc 1-2" - cannot agree more , I cannot stand the current situation we have where we need chaos to have any chance to dethrone the mercs , and yes I am a salty Ferrari fan , but also I am an F1 fan , and this is the worst period of F1 , 85% of polls/wins is trouncing the the Ferrari/redbull domination. McLaren was a shoe in for 2. and 3. spot. With Mercedes gone at the fault of their own, they would have had a solid 1-2 if not for the red flag which benefit two people from the back at complete random due to rather unfair tire change rules, basically giving them a completely free pit stop which easily gave them 30 seconds or more worth of race time. Imagine if at any point in the race, two drivers just randomly got a 30 second bonus. That's what that felt like. It also came at a time which left them too few laps remaining to actually pass on a track like Monza. McLaren got absolutely robbed. | ||
Lmui
Canada6155 Posts
The slowest corner is turn 1, in 4th gear. It's going to be drs passes at best and I'm pretty sure cars are going to struggle to be close enough out of the last corner. It's pretty much a mirrored parabolica and we all know how that turned out. | ||
Excludos
Norway7678 Posts
Not that good tracks aren't a snore fest this season either tho.. | ||
| ||