|
On June 21 2019 03:35 Bonham wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2019 22:23 KelsierSC wrote: Glad you are back and ready to run. Good job staying strong and disciplined through the rehab process.
Thanks! I can't say it was my favorite process on the whole, but I hope it made me a wiser runner as a result. I've come to enjoy rowing quite a bit as a result of my rehab. I didn't go crazy trying to get good at it or anything, but I did try a few workouts and time trial efforts. My best 5k row time was 19:20. I felt completely gassed when I finished. Rowing hard is tough. The running rehab program I'm using starts with 1x4 min of running and then builds up to 30 mins of continuous running. Yesterday I was due for 1x20 mins of running. I ran it at kind of a light tempo effort--not really workout intensity, but trying to enjoy the relatively few chances I get to run these days. To my surprise, I went through 5k in 18:50. So it would appear that, despite my months in the gym, I'm still a better runner than a rower. Anyway, some thread catchup: L_Master, I'm sorry to hear you've been having health problems. Do they still persist? Are you through the dreaded First Semester? I see you've been getting some work in on Strava.... NonY, man, it's awesome to read about your races. You're breathing some pretty rarified air. 31:09 is super legit. Very excited to see how fast you can go. (Esp. if you clear up that asthma possibility, just like Galen Rupp ) LuckyFool, great job getting under the 20 min barrier! PBing in adverse conditions is worth double celebrations, I'd say. tagliatelle, sweet races man. Glad to see someone in the Lower Mainland is out there keeping race directors employed, 'cuz I sure ain't. In all seriousness, sweet moves in the 10k. Maybe I'll see you on the 2020 startline! GoPlayTetriz: great to see new blood in the thread! Your meme game also seems extremely strong; please keep it up. KelsierSC: welcome to the world of running! I can relate to the gym atmosphere/boredom you describe; bro gym culture is the worst IMO. Very excited to watch your progress; you have a ton of PBs ahead!
I'm doing quite a bit better. I've made some serious strides on the anxiety and other issues. Sleep is still a little sub-optimal. But I really need to get my eating under control. I'll do good for a while and lose it. Hanging out around 80kg, which is ridiculously heavy...and kind kills my motivation. Having to kill myself to run 21 5k or some similar equivalent for cycling is kinda meh.
Have also had a really variable schedule and some changes, so I haven't found that nice groove and consistency. I'm staying away from being "out of shape" but also staying away from in shape.
Glad to hear you're still in the game, and going to give it another go. Can't tell you how much I hope between surgeries and physio they've figured out the bad issues that have plagued you and that you can get in a solid cycle for the next few years.
I think rowing a 20' 5k is more stout than the same equivalent in cycling, especially for those of us that would be "lightweights' in the rowing world. Rowing stuff really hurts though, that's for sure. How many hours per week did you spend doing endurance training? That probably has a significant bit to do with the shape you have kept.
On June 22 2019 01:44 MarcoJ wrote: Had one week of vacation which included drinking every night, came back got a bit of a sore throat, so kept it easy for some additional 4 days. So i wasnt on the bike for 10-11 days. Went for my usual ride yesterday and completely smashed it. PB on a 1km sprint, PB overall. Felt great afterwards.
For tomorrow I will create a new route just to enjoy the good weater a bit. Pretty excited.
Nice work man!
|
*Just a reminder that I'm happy to do some coaching for anyone in this thread that wants it. *
|
On June 24 2019 14:49 L_Master wrote:
I'm doing quite a bit better. I've made some serious strides on the anxiety and other issues. Sleep is still a little sub-optimal. But I really need to get my eating under control. I'll do good for a while and lose it. Hanging out around 80kg, which is ridiculously heavy...and kind kills my motivation. Having to kill myself to run 21 5k or some similar equivalent for cycling is kinda meh.
Have also had a really variable schedule and some changes, so I haven't found that nice groove and consistency. I'm staying away from being "out of shape" but also staying away from in shape.
That's awesome news! Has the allergies/sinus situation also calmed down?
Regarding the weight thing: have you considered going vegetarian? I lost about 10 pounds when I stopped eating meat a decade ago. Not a panacea on its own, of course, but something to consider.
On June 24 2019 14:49 L_Master wrote:
Glad to hear you're still in the game, and going to give it another go. Can't tell you how much I hope between surgeries and physio they've figured out the bad issues that have plagued you and that you can get in a solid cycle for the next few years.
I think rowing a 20' 5k is more stout than the same equivalent in cycling, especially for those of us that would be "lightweights' in the rowing world. Rowing stuff really hurts though, that's for sure. How many hours per week did you spend doing endurance training? That probably has a significant bit to do with the shape you have kept.
Haha, thanks very much. We'll see what the future holds....
I'm not at all sure what the rowing equivalent of a 20' 5K run would be. Actually, on that subject: what's the equivalent for cycling? Would be very curious to hear your thoughts on that.
I did a little reading about rowing technique and tips when I was getting into it around December, and from that I gather that most serious rowing races happens at shorter distances.
During rehab, I spent between 60 and 90 minutes doing endurance work, six days a week. At the start it was all rowing, then it moved to a mix of rowing and cycling. Now it's mostly rowing and running, with cycling on Sundays until I can start running six times a week. (Somehow I have become someone who goes to spin class; blame my partner for that I guess.)
Anyway, I'd do some interval-style stuff on the rower sometimes to break up the monotony, and the odd "tempo" effort, but it was really mostly medium-effort, steady state stuff while I listened to podcasts.
I will say that my few dalliances with hard rowing hammered home why it would be useful to be a big strong buff boy if you really wanted to get good at it. Your whole body really needs to produce power to pull the chain as fast and hard as you can. I think, if I wanted to become a good rower, a lot of the hard work would have to happen in the weight room.
But that would slow down my running, so it's off the table.
|
On July 03 2019 03:46 Bonham wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2019 14:49 L_Master wrote:
I'm doing quite a bit better. I've made some serious strides on the anxiety and other issues. Sleep is still a little sub-optimal. But I really need to get my eating under control. I'll do good for a while and lose it. Hanging out around 80kg, which is ridiculously heavy...and kind kills my motivation. Having to kill myself to run 21 5k or some similar equivalent for cycling is kinda meh.
Have also had a really variable schedule and some changes, so I haven't found that nice groove and consistency. I'm staying away from being "out of shape" but also staying away from in shape.
That's awesome news! Has the allergies/sinus situation also calmed down? Regarding the weight thing: have you considered going vegetarian? I lost about 10 pounds when I stopped eating meat a decade ago. Not a panacea on its own, of course, but something to consider.
Yea, sinus stuff cleared up about 2 or 3 months ago. It was quite annoying though.
Vegetarian? Not really. Tbh, I just like meat too much to, and I think it's hard to argue against the nutritional value of it (provided you're staying away from grain fed meats with poor FA ratios). I do tend to be much heavier on the salmon/tuna side of things, with beef, chicken, turkey, etc. thrown in as occasional treats. I'm very heavy on vegetables, 7-10 cups is normal for me per day, some fruit when it's in season, and occasional nuts. Generally try to stay away from refined oils and most grains. Biggest killer for me by far is binging on processed foods. If I could take away my 3-5 days/week where I eat 2000kcal of soda/cookies/ice cream/etc. I'd be lean and probably in the top 1% of healthy eating. I just struggle with the cravings and binging.
On July 03 2019 03:46 Bonham wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2019 14:49 L_Master wrote:
Glad to hear you're still in the game, and going to give it another go. Can't tell you how much I hope between surgeries and physio they've figured out the bad issues that have plagued you and that you can get in a solid cycle for the next few years.
I think rowing a 20' 5k is more stout than the same equivalent in cycling, especially for those of us that would be "lightweights' in the rowing world. Rowing stuff really hurts though, that's for sure. How many hours per week did you spend doing endurance training? That probably has a significant bit to do with the shape you have kept.
Haha, thanks very much. We'll see what the future holds.... I'm not at all sure what the rowing equivalent of a 20' 5K run would be. Actually, on that subject: what's the equivalent for cycling? Would be very curious to hear your thoughts on that. I did a little reading about rowing technique and tips when I was getting into it around December, and from that I gather that most serious rowing races happens at shorter distances. During rehab, I spent between 60 and 90 minutes doing endurance work, six days a week. At the start it was all rowing, then it moved to a mix of rowing and cycling. Now it's mostly rowing and running, with cycling on Sundays until I can start running six times a week. (Somehow I have become someone who goes to spin class; blame my partner for that I guess.) Anyway, I'd do some interval-style stuff on the rower sometimes to break up the monotony, and the odd "tempo" effort, but it was really mostly medium-effort, steady state stuff while I listened to podcasts. I will say that my few dalliances with hard rowing hammered home why it would be useful to be a big strong buff boy if you really wanted to get good at it. Your whole body really needs to produce power to pull the chain as fast and hard as you can. I think, if I wanted to become a good rower, a lot of the hard work would have to happen in the weight room. But that would slow down my running, so it's off the table.
Rowing equivalent. Hmm. Looking at Conept2 rankings, which are actually taken quite seriously, it would seem that for lightweights (sub 75kg) somewhere around 18 high is top 10%, and 19 mid is top 25%, so I'd guess that the rowing equivalent would be around 19 flat ish. 20' 10k for active men seems to be around a similar place.
Cycling equivalent is tough to say, because it depends on the type of rider. Roughly speaking, you could say doing a 40km TT in an hour (one a TT bike) would be an equivalent, I think that's a top 10% achievement. From a power/weight standpoint, you'd be looking at 4/wkg for threshold. Climbing and speeds though are dependent on a variety of factors, and highly susceptible to wind. Best way to tell would be to find a sheltered local climb in your area of 20'+ and see what time is the top 10%.
And yea, being big benefits rowing because weight is a non penalty. More muscle mass generally translated into more raw power, and will make you faster. This is especially true for guys that are bigger (generally read: taller) because they naturally have more muscle, heart size/pumping/lung capacity. So more power and they go faster. Same reason bigger guys tend to be great in cycling on the flat races. They can compact themselves almost as small as a little guy, but have way more absolute power.
|
Funny you guys started to talk about rowing, because that's exactly what I started doing today!
I was about to ramp up my mileage again because I felt good again, when suddenly the stinging pain from early April popped back up on a very easy run after only 1k. I was super frustrated and decided to end my running streak at 184 days and go see a doctor. That was about 3 weeks ago, doc thinks it's not a stress fracture (yet) just an overuse injury, but thinks my flat feet are to blame for some of it and sent me to a podiatrist. Saw him yesterday. That guy... "forefoot striking is all wrong, you need to land on your heel first, if you run like that I can't help you, no serious runner does it like this..." Maybe I could've taken him more seriously if he didn't weigh about 130kg himself while being the same height as me. At least he didn't try to sell me anything.
Decided to ignore that advice and follow through with the plan I already had before that. Take some time off (did that for 3 weeks, all niggles gone), then slowly start running again 2-3 times a week and supplement with lots of rowing and time on the eliptical. Also focus more on mobility and making sure my calves aren't tight.
So I joined a gym yesterday and I already love rowing! My arms are weak as he'll but it's fun. I'll do a 5k time trial soon to see where I start out.
|
Haha, what a coincidence! Now that I've become acquainted with it, I see rowing as a real part of my long-term workout diet. It's low impact but still rigorous, and it works the whole body. Excited to see how the 5k goes! I should mention, on the off chance you've chosen 5k because of the discussion in this thread, that it was a totally arbitrary distance I chose because of its overlap with running. I can't vouch for its importance in the world of rowing!
One other thing I'll mention, with the proviso that I'm a long way from a rowing expert: I believe many rowing beginners make the mistake of concentrating too much on their arms. See, for example, this list of rowing tips.
I'm not a medical professional, but that podiatrists' attitude sounds pretty dubious to me. One thing I've found helpful dealing with medical consultants over the years is asking them how much experience they have treating runners and how much they keep up with new research. Sounds like this dude's knowledge is a few decades past its best-before date.
|
This thread fall off the front page of the Sports subforum? Not on my watch!
Anyone else watching the Tour this year? As a fair-weather cycling fan, I'm quite enjoying following it. With no Froome, things feel much less certain and therefore much more exciting.
|
On July 17 2019 06:55 Bonham wrote: This thread fall off the front page of the Sports subforum? Not on my watch!
Anyone else watching the Tour this year? As a fair-weather cycling fan, I'm quite enjoying following it. With no Froome, things feel much less certain and therefore much more exciting.
I still think it's pretty damn likely an Ineos rider is going to win. Need to see one more hard mountains day to see if having so many Ineos guys dropped like we did on stage 6 or whatever it was was a fluke or not. If Ineos as a team is that off, then it's more open, but if Poels and Co. are all solid....really hard to think both G and Bernal will falter with that kind of support (ofc barring some sort of crash or mechanical disaster).
Unfortunate for Pinot, he had looked really good so far.
Overall though, it's been a good race so far with all kinds of amazing stages. Alaphillipe gaining yellow. Alaphillips just losing to Chicone on that crazy ramp at the end. Alaphillipe regainging it and the amazing victory by a tired, breakaway DeGendt to hold off Alaphillipe and Pinot working together, and then the crosswinds day. All in all quite a good race.
TT tomorrow will be interesting and see where they are at. G should consolidate his lead over everyone not named Alaphillipe, but Bernal TTs pretty well and shouldn't lose all that much time.
|
Starting to get some mojo back. Pretty much solved my anxiety type issues, and am even starting to get the sleep better. Diet is generally much healthier, but still that's by far the biggest struggle.
I've been thinking for a while, and I think that's really going to become my main goal. I'm not good enough as a runner, and while I have the physical ability on the bike...I just dont have the nerves. Maybe one day I'll get past it, but I cant get results anywhere near my fitness with my confidence level. Wont stop racing, but it's just not a main goal.
So...what is my main goal? Well. In 2016 I went 23:07 on the Manitou Incline at around 68kg. I've been 63kg, with potential for a touch lower. Weight should be able to save about 2'. That brings me to 21...so I figure if I can find 1' more in fitness I could go sub 20...which would be something special. Top 3 all time strava and a general super significant barrier. It's a big ask, but it would be an awesome magnum opus if I could pull it out. For the current moment, did the incline a couple months ago in 31:30...and that was a wakeup call. Almost 10' from my best. Pitiful...but the jumpstart I needed. Put in a mediocre block, then a fantastic block, and went 27:52 a few days ago.
In the short term I've got a big endurance/climbing MTB race in 3 weeks, no ambitious goals, but bettering time from last year would be nice. Then, if my body let's me I'll do some running in the fall, and then a big endurance block over winter with the goal of seeing where I'm actually at, and how reasonable 20' is, in late spring.
|
Hey L_Master, glad to hear that you got your health issues pretty much solved, health comes before anything sports related specially for us amateurs.
I didn't know about the incline but that thing looks brutal in the most awesome way. I'd definitely love to do it some day. Your goal sounds like a very though one but those are the most interesting and challenging, wish you luck. When you say you lack confidence in cycling what do you mean? Riding in the peloton, cornering, fast descents? Those things can also be greatly improved with the right approach, but most of all you need a 'I can definitely do it' mindset, maybe you could focus a bit on that too.
As for myself, I've started cycling at the end of February after 1.5 years away because of a knee injury and I'm really happy about where I'm at. I've managed to do some prs on short climbs and even a couple KOMs while being careful not to overextend and train too much. In one of the 2 climbs I use for all-out tests I did 3:37, just 1 second away from my pr, and in the next day did 15:30 on the other climb where my pr is 14:49, while 3 months ago I did 16:45. Now I've got two races coming up, the first is a 2 hour race in the Estoril circuit and the second the Santarém Granfondo which is 122km with 2200m of gain. In both I'd love to finish in the top 50 (competition is very though around here) but I'm also perfectly ok if I don't because my main goal is to be injure free so that next year I can do more races and set the best prs I can possibly do.
|
All right, time for a bump!
Came back yesterday from a 1 week hiking vacation, lots of activity and drinking with friends. Quite exhausting but awesome fun! 4 hiking trips, 82km, about 5,000m vertical gain, 1 day rafting and one spa day. My personal highlight was on friday when we went to the "Three peaks of Lavaredo" (super famous group of mountains, like unesco world heritage famous) to hike around them. After encountering 2 groups of trailrunners me and a friend went "hold my beer"-mode (literally our backpacks including beer) and decided to do an extra loop running while the rest of our group kept on hiking at a moderate pace. Jumping rocks, dodging tourists, sliding on gravel...some of the most fun I've ever had running! https://www.strava.com/activities/2604582143
Only after I caught up with my group did I realize, that I was doing all that on a hot & sunny day at an altitude of 2,200-2,450m. Man was I breathing hard! Combine that with other brilliant ideas like "lets race up that hill to the edge of the forest" covering about 130m vertically with merely 240m horizontally... https://www.strava.com/activities/2601836432
Well, I never realized you could have sore breathing muscles! My chest was super tight, laughing and coughing hurt actually hurt a little. I was a little freaked because I suffered a collapsed lung both last year and the year before, right around this time of year. Thankfully most of it already subsided and today's only my 2nd rest day, knockin on wood that my lung didn't take any damage! Legs also feel fine btw, only my left foot started complaining in the 5th metatarsal/cuboid area, but it's quickly going away and I'm confident that I can soon start increasing my running volume again!
As for rowing: My first 5k was in 21:12, after which my total rowing distance wasn't even 10k. So this is really where I start at. I didn't find enough time to go rowing more than twice a week, but I decided to keep going to the gym until the end of september. For now my forearms feel like the limiting factor, can barely hold on to the handle while averaging a hr of only 145.
|
Well did my longest ride ever, a solid 6 hrs on the MTB with 2 hours or so of efforts worth at 5-7 beats below threshold. Went well and was feeling ready to start taper for race this coming Saturday...
But....
No race. On Saturday anyway. Washouts and other issues resulted in a postponement and some possible course changes with a new planned date of October 27.
Not sure how to feel. On the one hand my fitness was going well and I was definitely setting up to peak. On the other hand, its theoretically way more time to lose weight and be vastly more competitive.
|
well, after my visit in cologne and drinking I wanted to challenge my self and finally do a 100km ride. So I go, its raining slightly, whatever. After 25km I realize that I have a flat. Luckily the next bus at the nearest station was coming in 40min. Took me about 90min to get home by public transport.
Last time my phone battery died to fast, this time a flat. Eventually I will make it...
|
Allrighty, time for another bump!
I'm a bit annoyed since my right shin feels tender after very little easy running (like 15k a week). I don't notice it while walking/running but it's overly sensitive if I start prodding it a little. Gonna see what happens if I increase the load a bit and signed up for a 5k in mid october. Yesterday I spontaneously decided to do another 5k race today as a sort of fitness test to see where I actually am running wise after this very inconsistent summer.
Just ran a 18:57! While not the fastest 5k I ever logged, it was definitely my best race effort in a short race. Very even splits, avg HR of 179 and reached my max of 186, highest I reached in the last 2 years.
I guess the rowing, stairmaster and that one high intensity aerobics class at my gym helped quite a bit.
Speaking of rowing, 5k is down to 19:40 and I did a 2k this week in 7:31. Lovely noob gains 3 weeks ago I got really bad pain in the biceps femoris tendon where it inserts into the knee, because overdoing things is what I'm really good at. It's interesting how it changed in such a short time. In the beginning I barely could hold on to the handle while the rest of my body felt fine, but by now I can actually push and really get my HR up to feel wholly miserable
|
On September 09 2019 00:45 Nocci wrote:Allrighty, time for another bump! I'm a bit annoyed since my right shin feels tender after very little easy running (like 15k a week). I don't notice it while walking/running but it's overly sensitive if I start prodding it a little. Gonna see what happens if I increase the load a bit and signed up for a 5k in mid october. Yesterday I spontaneously decided to do another 5k race today as a sort of fitness test to see where I actually am running wise after this very inconsistent summer. Just ran a 18:57! While not the fastest 5k I ever logged, it was definitely my best race effort in a short race. Very even splits, avg HR of 179 and reached my max of 186, highest I reached in the last 2 years. I guess the rowing, stairmaster and that one high intensity aerobics class at my gym helped quite a bit. Speaking of rowing, 5k is down to 19:40 and I did a 2k this week in 7:31. Lovely noob gains 3 weeks ago I got really bad pain in the biceps femoris tendon where it inserts into the knee, because overdoing things is what I'm really good at. It's interesting how it changed in such a short time. In the beginning I barely could hold on to the handle while the rest of my body felt fine, but by now I can actually push and really get my HR up to feel wholly miserable
Nice rowing improvement! If I get back in shape I'll have to test myself...or maybe I should do it now since weight doesn't mean shit on the ergo.
Nice race too, not a bad place to start a build from. Time to go hunt that sub 18!! And remember, if you want some coaching I'm happy to do that (at no charge obviously).
|
Ugh. The forever struggle with eating. Can't go anywhere to a decent level with that problem and sitting at 170lbs.
Training is okay, but the stupid inability not to binge on shit is so frustrating
|
On September 09 2019 13:37 L_Master wrote: And remember, if you want some coaching I'm happy to do that (at no charge obviously).
Thanks for the offer, so far I've been improving steadily with what I've been doing, orienting myself & structuring workouts mostly after Jack Daniels' Running Formula. As long as I stayed healthy anyways. That's the one thing I struggle with, staying injury free. These days I've been noticing my right shin again after hard running, but that might be just some post injury oversensitivity. Gotta pay close attention to that and be honest with myself.
Here's my 2019 so far:
Hardly any running since may, so I'm all the more pleased to still be able to run sub 19min 5k Plan for the next 4 weeks is to go by feel, probably low total volume but mostly quality workouts on the track (like twice a week), because I also want to spend some more time in the gym while my subscription still lasts. Then after the race in october I'll see where I stand health wise and hopefully start a long base building phase, no more racing planned this year.
In other news I went tryhard mode today and got my 5k rowing down to 19:15
Ugh. The forever struggle with eating. Hehe I hear you, I came home from my vacation with 3 additional kg and kept them through all of august. Now I'm back down to 71kg and I aim to be somewhere sub 70kg for the race in october. At least my diet's been pretty clean the last 2 weeks. Party with alcohol tomorrow, hopefully I'll bounce back to healthy habits right on sunday.
|
Race report 1:
Last Saturday I did the first Race in a very long time, a 2hour circuit race on the Estoril Race track at night.
I only got to the track 10 min before the start because of insane traffic and only got to the start line with 3min to go, so no warm up for me. The first lap was pretty intense, started way behind the front and had trouble clipping the pedals so I had to sprint pretty hard to get to the front and stay there was tough because I had no clue about the track, it was very dark and those corners..... Doing tight but very high speed corners in the middle of the pack was pretty terrifying, there were 180+ degrees corners made at close to 40kph that made me scared every time I passed there. Fortunetly I could stay in the front of the group for most of the race and have clean lines.
So the first lap was the fastest as expected and then the pace slowed a bit, with the occasional attack and sudden increase in speed which slowly started to kill the legs, and with some 4 sprints out of corners every lap it was tough but manageable. In the last 3 laps I decided I had to stay on the top 10 till the end and did so, and even attacked to bridge to a breakaway in the penultimate lap, which was probably a mistake but I enjoyed being in that small break. We were caught but I sprinted to stay in the head of the group and finally started the sprint on 4th position but I paid for my previous efforts and cramped quite bad but still managed to finish 7th from the front group of 30.
Overall it was really fun although quite dangerous, and while the pace wasn't extremely high (around 39kph average), I felt it was a good race and result.
Now next month I'll have the other race which will be very different with much more climbing but I just want to finish and feel good.
Edit: Strava activity link
|
Woah that's intense. Great results and speed wow! As someone who only rides solo taking those kind of corners with dozens of other bikes around would freak me out too much. I suppose one would get used to riding in a pack over time and adjust to it but I might be too scared to even try in a race setting like this (especially crits which seem to be designed to cause a crash...).
|
On September 17 2019 08:18 tagliatelle wrote: Woah that's intense. Great results and speed wow! As someone who only rides solo taking those kind of corners with dozens of other bikes around would freak me out too much. I suppose one would get used to riding in a pack over time and adjust to it but I might be too scared to even try in a race setting like this (especially crits which seem to be designed to cause a crash...).
Yea you get used to it for the most part, perhaps completely if your confidence is good. Crits....aren't THAT bad. They seem intense, and they do place a huge emphasis on bike handling, but it's not that bad. In general, crashing is just a part of racing. If you race enough, you will crash.
And yea, the speed is high, but that's part of the group effect. You go pretty damn fast in a strong bunch.
It's very fun though, I won't lie.
Beyond that, I wouldn't jump into racing right away. Start with some chill group rides and get used to that, then go to some of the "racier" ones in your area. Once you're comfortable there....then hop into some races.
|
|
|
|