**TeamLiquid now has a group on what I consider to be the best GPS/logging site out there: Strava. You can join the group here: http://www.strava.com/clubs/Teamliquid**
A thread for all my fellow TL'ers who run. A place to discuss goals, training, racing, motivation; anything related to running. Should be a little easier now that everything won't get lost in all the traffic of one mega-thread.
For those new to running their are a few common mistakes that many people make. The first is just plain doing too much, too soon. A general guideline reference is to increase mileage about 10% per week, with every 3/4 week being a cutback week of maybe 50-75% of the distance you just achieved. Obviously some people can increase much faster than this, and others will get an injury even following these guidelines. For people new to running its safe to add a day per week until your running 6/7 days a week, stay at the previous weeks number of days if that week felt particularly demanding.
The other common mistake is running too hard. Perhaps because of PE/sports/etc. their is this mentality of "no pain, no gain" when running. This is wrong. Especially for beginner the key is adjusting to running and finding some enjoyment out of it. This probably won't happen if your hammering every run at 5K pace - 10 seconds. If you EVER have to take a break to walk (and its just not immense fatigue from long distance) your running WAY to hard. To give some basic guidelines if you can RACE a mile in:
5:00 - Normal running @ 7:00-7:45 pace/mile 5:30 - Normal running @ 7:30-8:45 pace/mile 6:00 - Normal running @ 8:15-9:00 pace/mile 6:30 - Normal running @ 9:00-9:45 pace/mile 7:00 - Normal running @ 9:30-10:15 pace/mile 7:30 - Normal running @ 10:15-11:00 pace/mile 8:00 - Normal running @ 11:00-11:45 pace/mile 8:30 - Normal running @ 11:30-12:15 pace/mile 9:00 - Normal running @ 12:15-13:00 pace/mile 10:00 - Normal running @ 13:30-14:15 pace/mile 12:00 - Normal running @ 16:00-17:00 pace/mile
For those totally new to running that have been sedentary/non-athletic most their life here is one of the best introductions to running out there: Couch to 5K
For those that have maintained a minimal level of activity beyond being sedentary its reasonable to jump in at 3-4 days a week of 3-4 miles. Progressing by adding a day per week until you reach 6 or 7 days per week. Mileage can be increased from there.
General recommendation for most injuries is if the pain lessens, and perhaps if its mild and doesn't intensify you can continue to run on it. If the pain increases as you run, definitely stop. Nothing like turning a mild case of achilles tendinitis into a long term case of prolonged achilles tendinosis.
You really have to listen to your body on these though. For the non-competitive runner running for fitness, its probably wise to just play it safe and take a a day or two off at any hints of injury. If your training competitively or for an important event then you really just need to try to listen to and judge the injury. Obvious training with anything other than routine soreness runs the risk of turning something minor into something serious, however, if you break training for every possible suggestion of injury you probably won't put together very good blocks of training.
Racing Flat/Flat - Very lightweight shoes designed for long distance racing Trainer - Standard, heavier, and generally more supportive shoe used primarily for training due to wearing out less frequently than thinner racing flats
Easy Run - light run for general aerobic development; usually can converse easily with a partner, breathing rhythm usually around 2/2-3/3. Typically 60-75% of max heart rate. Marathon Pace/M-Pace/Aerobic Threshold Pace - usually fastest aerobic pace, obviously pace at which you could run for a marathon. Approx 40-60 second slower than 5K race pace Tempo/T-Pace Run - A common term that refers to several different run types. Tempo's typically have three popular durations, 20-30 min, 40-60 min, and extended tempos of 60-80 min. Correct pacing is around 5K+20-25 seconds per mile for short ones, 5K+35-40 seconds per mile for the medium, and 5K+50-60 seconds per mile for the longer ones. Reps - Fast track intervals @ around mile race pace w/recovery time twice that of repeat (400m in 75 seconds = 150 second slow jog recovery). Used to build economy at speed and make fast paces seem easier Intervals/V02 Max Interval - Longer repeats at slower pace with less recovery. Usually 1:1 recovery/repeat at around 3K-5K race pace (1200m in 3:30 w/3:30 jog recovery). Long Run - run longer than typical for YOUR mileage. Usually around 20% of weekly mileage (aka runner running 60mpw might run around 11-13 miles for a long run) Fartlek - Swedish for "speed play". A run that can be pretty much whatever a runner wants. Can involve just picking random targets and running as hard as desired toward them and then recovery for however long you want, or can be structured as in 2 min "ON", 2 min "OFF". Strides - Short pickups of about 50-100m done anywhere from 400m-1600m race pace. Serve to "stay in touch" with speed and maintain neuromuscular coordination for fast paces. NOT meant to be hard.
Kick - runners strong finish to the end of a race; crucial to winning championship races which are generally slower and more tactical in nature Tactial Race - typically slower pace, refers to a race in which different runners try to force the race to their strengths. Ex: a super fast runner might want to wait till 100m to go before kicking hard for home, while the slower, but stronger runner might really pick up the pace with 400m+ to go and try to "run the kick out of" the faster runner. Move - An increase in speed to either pass runners, obtain position, or make a move for the win. It's said you get one move in the 800m, 2 in the 1500m, and 3 in the 5000m/10000m Surge - Increase in pace of the race by a runner Stagger - difference in starting places to account for varying radius of the curves in races that are fixed lane or partially fixed lane. Turnover - basically a runners stride, turnover essentially referring to the length and rate of stride Cadence - Steps per minute Mileage - miles run, usually given as a weekly value MPW, mpw - miles per week Raw Speed - Most common measure is an athletes 200m time Speed - Generally refers to top end gear, but for distance runners is often cited as 400m speed. Ex: A world class 800m runner likely has 45-47 second speed V02 Max - measure of maximum oxygen uptake vV02 max - Velocity at V02 Max, lowest speed at which an athlete is at maximum oxygen consumption. Usually occurs between 3K and 5K pace Anaerobic Threshold - inflection point on the lactic acid accumulation curve, at which point blood levels of lacate increase significantly faster. Usually around high end tempo pace, a little slower than 10K pace. Bonk - usually applies to marathon, occurs when a runner goes out to hard and deplets glycogen too soon resulting in a massive increase in speed and major pace drop off Elite - top level runner LSD - long, slow distance Negative Split - last half of race faster than first Overpronate - Higher than normal amount of inward roll of the foot Heelstrike - generally undesirable stride in which the foot lands forward of center of gravity resulting in a braking effect and extra stress Splits - Times at specific distances. Ex: in a 5K might have splits read every K, in a mile splits might be read every 400m World Best - best time for an event without official world records, or a non-ratified world record. Ex: marathon world record is 2:03:59, world best is 2:03:02 World Lead - best time run for an event in that calendar year NR - National Record
Your head and neck should look as if you were standing still as someone was measuring your height and you want to squeeze in every extra millimeter possible. Your head should be up tall and your eyes should be looking straight ahead. It helps to focus on an object in the near distance that you are aiming for. If you are racing stare at the back of a runner a little ahead of you. Do not stare at the ground because it will likely mess up the form of your midsection.
Arms
While you are swinging your arms visualize there is a vertical line in the middle of your chest. Do not cross any part of either arm over to the other side. Also make sure your arms are not swinging too far to the outside on the other side of your body. Keep your arms swinging between your imaginary vertical chest line and your shoulder. Your right arm should be between your right shoulder and the vertical chest line and your left arm should be between your left shoulder and the chest line.
Keep your elbows bent at about 45 degrees. Your elbows should not be doing much bending or straightening as you are running; keep them at close to 45 degrees the whole time.
Maintain stable wrists throughout your movements. Do not bend them in any way.
Keep your hands in a loose fist. If they are too tight you will be using unnecessary energy and if they are too lose you will look like a not as cool T-1000. Maybe if you're a sprinter you can do the T-1000 with your hands completely straight, but not as a distance runner. I like to keep my thumbs on the top and outside of my pointer finger rather than wrapping around a fist. Your thumb will be straight and pointing away from you if you do it this way. Doing it like this helps me focus on keeping a loose hand and straight wrist.
Chest/Back
Your chest should be just as it would be if you were standing still, straight, and tall. Your back will be straight as well. If you find that you are leaning forward, make sure you are looking ahead of you rather than below you. Also, you may have weak abdominal muscles that prevent you from running up straight and tall. I ran like this for the first couple of years when I started because I had no abs.
Hips
Keep your hips underneath you and forward you as if you're banging a hot girl and you're about to ejaculate. Practice this in front of a mirror without a shirt when nobody else is around or someone you are trying to impress IS around. Keeping your hips forward will help your body drive forward.
Legs
This is where most runners tend to need the most work. You should be hitting about 3 strides per second when you are running at a moderately fast to fast pace. This means that your feet are striking the ground at a rate of 3 steps per second. This is the most efficient way to run for distance runners but is difficult and probably not worth doing if you're not running fast (relative to your own ability). But the next time you are running faster, whether it's a tempo run, strides, or whatever, try this out. Count how many steps you take in 10 seconds. How close is it to 30? You probably need to be taking more and shorter steps.
Pick up your feet as soon as they hit the ground. It sounds obvious but really make an effort to think about this as you are running. The longer your feet stay on the ground the more momentum you are losing. Keep them legs moving fast and forward. Try running in place with this principle in mind.
Pick up your feet higher than where you perceive your knee to be. While some people (usually old people) prefer the marathon shuffle, keeping your legs moving in a more circular manner, you can increase your efficiency as long as you use all of these leg tips together. Just go watch some videos of elite distance runners to get a visual or this or anything else being described. Most elites have excellent form, specifically in the beginning of races before they get too tired. This is another technique that is difficult to do unless you are running fast. But when you are running fast this will make you fast AND smooth.
This last tip can be debated but I'll lay it down anyway. Strike the ground with your mid foot. Heel striking is very common and the normal way most people run when they slip on running shoes. This is interesting because if you run barefoot you will be mid foot striking. Try it out. I am a believer in the benefits of barefoot and minimalist shoe training, but that is a topic for another time. I still think a mid foot strike to be the best bet here. Not only is it the most natural way for humans to run but it also keeps your feet on the ground for less time. Remember that you are fighting inertia and need to keep your feet off the ground and your legs driving forward.
American<->SI Pace Conversion Tool (credit: Malinor) + Show Spoiler +
*Added a section to the OP for training logs. If you log your running online in an accessible form feel free to post your log up and I will add them to the OP.*
I dream of a sub-2:30 marathon in the fall, but right now I can't get my stupid Achilles tendon to stop swelling. So mostly I'm planning to give a bunch of money to the physiotherapy industry. If my injury persists into the spring, I might try a few longer bike rides.
This has been a goal of mine for what feels like two years now, but I am fully committed to running a 19:xx 5k in the spring. I easily have the speed (ran a 5:47 mile last year but never actually signed up to really go for broke in a 5k, instead ended up focusing on mileage/marathon) I just need to actually get the result hammered out.
this Spring I'm going to actually put in the speed work (start doing some 400's at least once a week) and spend time actually doing some strength training. Then pick a goal race sometime in the March/April timeframe. With probably a tune up race here or there as well.
Beyond that I also will probably look at doing another fall Marathon, would love to run NYC but it's difficult to get in through the lottery.
I spent several months in 2016 not exercising at all due to a back injury. 2017 now has all my hopes. I'm still focusing on half marathons. This is my current plan (PR attempts in bold):
January 7 - Half Marathon. Orlando, FL January 15 - Half Marathon. Anaheim, CA May 21 - 12k. San Francisco, CA May 27 - Half Marathon. Concord, CA July 16 - Half Marathon. Napa/Sonoma, CA November 12 - Half Marathon. Monterey, CA November 23 - 10k (local turkey trot)
Dream big goals: 1:13:xx, 1:09:xx, 1:07:xx, 29:xx (at that turkey trot)
Actual goals: 1:14:xx, 1:12:xx, 1:09:xx, 31:xx
Basic goal: Don't get injured. Finally do some real training consistently for a while and see how fast I actually am. If I'm not as fast as all these goals, ok. Reevaluate for 2018.
Last year I ran 1:25:04 on August 28 and 1:18:19 on November 13. Based on my training, I think I'll be able to reach my first goal on January 15 but after that I'll be headed into unknown territory (current PR 1:16:32 from April 2016)
First part of the year was in many ways quite solid, but I really battled illness. I was sick 4 or 5 times in the first 4 months of the year, and while my training was good, that definitely did some damage to it. From May-Aug my training was mediocre. I did alot of Pikes Peak specific workouts, but didn't really establish progress and build into the program, nor did I have sufficient variety. After that, I tried to do some running but ended up with an injury (largey due to a VERY aggressive build) and then just kinda dicked around on the bike till November.
Weight Loss: C
I went from 69kg down to almost 64kg in the first 6 weeks. I was killing it. Ate great, no soda, super limited junk. Just drilling it. Then I started the illness train, and between feeling sorry for myself and also making sure to eat enough when sick that I could fight infection I began to gain it back, and was back to 69kg before my first race in March. Then on that trip I ate like a dumbass and went up a little higher, towards 71kg. After that, I guess I lost the motivation flame and ate mediocre with no real changes in weight over most of the summer. Raced basically everything at about 70kg until Aug, when I did manage to drop about 2.5kg or so for Pikes Peak. Intended to take some time off around late October to early November from both training and diet focus, but ate too much again there, working up to about 73kg, which is getting into borderline heavy territory (18-20% BF), since then I've backed down towards about 70-71kg.
So the first 6 weeks of the season were absolutely A+, followed by D the rest of the season, borderline F. This is ALWAYS the challenge for me, and 2016 was weak here.
Nutrition: C-
Ate better quality food overall than 2015, with less binging; but still too much food from junk (maybe 20% daily cals?).
Overall Score: C
I did get a win, and some okay results along the way, but was comically far away from what I'm actually capable off.
Superior Morgul Omnium SM5 - 14th Stage 1 TT, 6th Stage 2 Circuit Race, 4th Stage 3 RR; 4th Overall
Pikes Peak Hill Climb Open Men 18-39 - 22nd, 1:28:31
So yea, all in all 2016 was pretty mediocre. I wouldn't say I'm bummed about it, but I didn't really set out to accomplish anything I wanted to, and certainly didn't have the season I would have liked.
With that in mind when it comes to 2017 I've been taking a deep, hard look really trying to figure out what I need to accomplish, and what's realistic to accomplish. I'm probably as motivated as I was in 2016, maybe even more so in some respects, but 2017 is also going to be a pretty different year. 2016 I was working part time around 30 hours a week, with a job that basically all I needed to do was show up to be successful at. 2017 is back to school for me for Electrical Engineering, and I'll likely need to work part time as well. With that in mind, cycling can't be a #1 type priority like it was in 2016. I plan to train as dillegently or moreso to what I did last year, but school/work/possibly internships may not allow for huge gains in 2017, which is fine but for now I'm optimistic
The biggest thing I've done is to try and really asses what went wrong last year. The biggest things I found were: losing focus on diet/weight loss, not racing/group riding enough, losing structure and failing to progress training at various points, not racing/group riding enough, not recovering enough (too much walking/feet time), oh and uhh not racing/group riding enough.
The bottom line is even at current weight I have the fitness to be a very competetive Cat3 rider, or pack filler P-1-2 guy. Instead I was a moderately competitive Cat 4/5 rider. Having gone back and looked at aspects of my fitness, there is just no way that's an issue as I'm clearly as strong in all areas as some of my much more successful P12 elite team teammates. The bottom line is I just suck at riding my bike. I don't make good racing decisions, I get nervy when cornering, and generally don't really ride relaxed and smooth in a pack. All of which sums to inefficient racing, with lots of wasted energy and burning of matches that leaves me unable to respond to, or be strong enough to execute, when a winning move was made. I was never dropped in an extended race section, I only lost or got gapped in strong 500+w moves (for you runners, I'd say that's like sub 4:20 or faster type efforts), where I'd burned too many anaerobic matches to be able to respond.
With that in mind, I let that be my guide for 2017 goals in order of focus:
Bike Handling/Race Tactics/Efficiency
Group ride, group ride, group ride, at least 3-4 times a month, even if that slightly compromises training/fitness goals
Skills practice - At least 5-10 hours a month getting out doing skills work: think bumping, pushing, cornering practice, reaching down for pencils, trackstands, bunny hop, etc. Get GOOD at riding a bike.
Descending - make the technical skills good, and then just ride and descend as much as I can to continue to improve comfort and confidence. The nerviness of cornering fast will never go 100% away for me, but you can make yourself vastly more confident
Money permitting race 20-30+ times, besides group riding it's really the only way you learn how to race well
Weight Loss
61kg by March 24 Self explanatory, weight loss is needed to ride remotely near potential. I'd have a VO2 of 77 instead of 68 if I was 61kg race lean
Nutrition
Don't binge
Don't drink soda
Always get in food 30-45 mins after workout
1.5 g/kg protein per day
Keep junk food calories between 5-10% on a daily basis
Performance Goals
1' Power - 650w, 10.5 w/kg
5' Power - 410w, 6.6 w/kg
20' Power - 340w, 5.5w/kg
60' Power - 320w, 5.2 w/kg
Sub 16:30 5k
Sub 2:50 marathon
Not die running R2R2R of Grand Canyon in November
Race Goals
Win Superior Morgul RR, CR, and Overall
Win Koppenberg CR
Win USAFA Road Race
Win a crit race
Top 10 all time Manitou Incline, sub 21:00
Sub 19:00 Lookout Mtn
Sub 40:00 Rist Canyon
Sub 27:00 Flagstaff Climb
Cat 3 upgrade by end of the season, Cat 2 upgrade is I get to race 20-30 times
So the plan is basically bike training in full seriousness through Mid May. From there, it depends on if my friend is still 100% interested in running R2R2R of the Grand Canyon. If so, I plan to switch to a running focus, basically doing marathon training, with a switch to heavy vert stuff a little out. I;d have 5 months to work with, which should give me enough time to build up a level of mileage before throwing in workouts, I'd be a little underprepared, but hopefully enough to give sub 2:50 a crack and certainly to qualify for Boston (which I would likely run April 18' if I did).
If he doesn't, then I'll probably continue to focus on training and race through summer on the bike, but then come back with a serious run build in September with the goal of chasing sub 2:00/4:40/16:30.
On January 16 2017 00:34 NonY wrote: 1:12:25. I'm ahead of schedule :D
Whoa! Sweet moves man; that's movin'. I'm excited to see how fast you can go.
How did it go? Did you win the race? Was it a tough course? In short: tell us more!
On the Achilles front: my tendon is coming along. My physiotherapist was very positive when I saw him on Thursday. Now doing runs with no walk breaks every other day and adding one kilometre each time. I'll be up to 13k on Friday, when I see him next. I'm starting to dream a bit about doing the Sun Run, a big 10k road race in Vancouver in the spring. Probably won't have time to really get dialed in and run 32:XX, but a rust-buster goal of sub-35 would be fun.
But I'm probably getting ahead of myself. Baby steps, baby steps!
I got 5th place. Really fast course imo. It did have a lot of turns in the first 4 miles but then you run long stretches on straight roads. Very flat. Weather was pretty nice (started at low 50's, no wind, finished before the sun came out). Course Map
It's pretty weird not knowing what I'll be capable of at each race. A lot different than high school doing a race a week for 10 weeks in a row. Training gets me in the right ballpark but of course you really don't want to start off running on pace for a 1:12 if you can only run a 1:15+.
Last year at this race, the winner ran a 1:05 and then there were a few guys coming in at 1:12. The winner was back and I thought some 1:12 guys were back too so I planned on letting the pack go at the start and try to hang a little back from what I thought would be the ~1:12 pack. But there were like 8 or 9 guys in front of me at the start and I still split 16:46 for the first 5k. There are so many turns at the start, but because you're running through the theme park and there are people cheering, it's natural to run fast. So I paced myself somewhat based on the other runners (really unreliable honestly, but mentally you don't feel like you're working too hard if you let a bunch of guys go) and also on feel.
After I had done 3-4 miles at this really great pace, I tried to take mental note of how my body felt and what pace I should be settling in at for the next portion of the run. There was no pack anymore, just guys strung all along the course. I surprisingly felt great, like I hadn't worked that hard yet, so I continued to run by feel and was knocking down low 5:30 miles.
About mile 8 or 9 was when the race started for me, and definitely by mile 10 I was feeling it. Unfortunately I got a bit scared and tricked myself into taking a conservative approach -- after all, I was way ahead of my goals. If I ease up to 5:40 pace now, I'll still get an amazing PR. But what if I run some more at 5:30 and then hit a wall?
While these thoughts are running through my head and I'm working really hard and struggling, I totally lost focus and slowed down way more than I consciously decided to. The final 4 miles was the difference between 1:11 and 1:12. I did speed back up before the end, but looking at my watch splits (which were offset because I forgot to start my watch at the start), there was a 3 mile stretch where I averaged 5:39 and then the last 0.8 mile I brought it back to 5:30 pace. Next race I'm going to be ready for this phase, focus on my breathing and work through it and maintain pace. I didn't finish as exhausted as I should have been, and I blame it totally on this loss of focus and rationalizing a "conservative" approach. With better execution, I'm in the neighborhood of sub-1:12 as I come down the stretch, and then I kick to make it, properly exhausted.
Most of all I'm happy that I didn't seem to get injured at all. I do still get back pain after the race (thankfully not during) that made me limp around. It's not so bad today, but now my legs are feeling really tired and sore. Anyway, I've got some great training ahead of me. I'll be doing a lot more work at faster than race pace than I have been. The 12k I'm doing in May is an extremely competitive race that has a pack of pros and all of the regional talent so there'll be a deep field to compete against.
I'm still going to keep my goals the same. Going 1:09 in July would still be huge, and 1:07 in November absolutely awesome, so those are great for big goals. And just getting a 1:09 this year would make it a really successful year, so that's still a good goal. I know I'll hit a wall at some point but I also know that my training can reach another level so I should still expect big improvements.
Mileage since Nov 13 (ran a 1:18 half): 26.7 -- 27.6 -- 43.5 -- 42.3 -- 43.1 -- 45.6 -- 53.5 -- 40.8 -- 24 -- 31 -> Race 1:12.
Most of that was easy running (race heart rate is 175 for me, and easy running I consider 135-150). I think I count 7 workouts that were 150+ heart rate efforts. I did 2 workouts at race pace or faster. During that 53.5 mile week I had some pains in my shins/knees that were scaring me so I backed off a lot. The 24 mile week was because my other race got canceled and I was put in an awkward spot with my schedule because I couldn't just run on my own. So I just didn't run 13 miles when I was planning to, and then it was the week of my PR attempt and I like to drop mileage the week of the race.
I think I really like the 55-65 mpw zone so I'm going to safely build to that and then try to do the classic 1 long run and 2 faster workouts per week. I'm gonna be really cautious about introducing the extra volume and intensity, making sure I'm feeling like I'm on top of everything rather than struggling to keep up. So I'm expecting it to take me a while to get my routine down. Regardless, I'm staying really positive and confident that I'm going to have a great shot at shattering 70 mins in July.
That's awesome, man. It's crazy to me that you can run this fast on that mileage.
It looks to me like you ran a pretty smart race. It's pretty rare to have perfect concentration for an entire race, or at least a race longer than a 5k. You avoided the timeless mistake of going out too hard and turning most of the race into a sufferfest.
Where do you get your workouts from? Are you running in a group? Do you have a coach?
I run alone, no coach, not following any plan. In high school my coach didn't have a running background and didn't really know what she was doing so me and some guys on the team tried to educate ourselves. I got Peter Coe's Better Training for Distance Runners (which is really technical as well) and Jack Daniels Running Formula. So I learned from those a bit about how people train. And my wife just got Pfitzinger's Faster Road Racing so I might read that too.
In the next several months I want to get closer to doing what a training plan out of those books would look like. But I kinda like doing my own thing and doing workouts I enjoy and being flexible so I'm apprehensive of having structured outside influence. I enjoy the responsibility and control and I think I'd feel less satisfaction if I copied too much or just followed a coach's plan. I'm really big on trying stuff with an open mind and judging if it clicks with me or not and then sticking to the stuff that feels natural to me. If I ran with a group, I feel like I'd end up doing workouts that I'm not really into.
Oh also my friend is coached by Antonio Vega, who won a national championship half marathon in 1:01:54. I've met him and can float questions his way. I learned from him to eat 400-600 calories 4 hours before the race. I tried it and really liked it (woke up at 1:30am to eat, went back to sleep and woke up at 4:30 for 5:30 race start). But it's nice that I can get an opinion from someone who reached that level.
If I ever start to feel lost I'll reach out for more help but I've got a pretty good idea of what I'm going to do this year at least. I think being in touch with yourself is by far the most important thing, as long as you're roughly doing normal legit training, so I'm not that concerned about missing out on optimizations atm.
2016 recap: My wife and I had a daughter! 'Lowest mileage year since 2012, just barely enough pre-infant miles under my belt to qualify for Boston (3:00:30 downhill at-altitude, gut-it-out marathon). Pretty sure my goals were met, just with a little less running at the end of 2016 than I would have liked. There were reasons, but happily not because of injuries or any health problems with little gal.
2017 goals: 1) Find, in a reasonable amount of time, a decent local job with a shower/locker room on-site and a health-conscious culture. I've been getting really regular runs in since the beginning of the year, but mostly because I'm not working currently. I'm hoping to get started on a more stable career in food science (not so terrible chemicals, good goals of feeding people tasty stuff).
2) Hugely contingent on where my next job is located: I want to complete RMR's Hell Week 2017.
3) Run Boston!!! I have no idea what my goal time will be (too early to discount injury or new job taking up too much time) but I'm going to Boston and I'm going to run it!
4) Try to get in sprint/hill shape to absolutely crush the local silly 4 mile trail run (Rattlesnake Ramble). This one is near and dear to my heart, want to get back into age-group contention this year!
5) Host a good trail run or something with a local running shop to go with DreamHack Denver computer gaming activities!
Absolutely gobsmacked at the times that NonY is shooting for: good luck and wow! Bonham will make a triumphant return to marathoning and start blowing us off the Strava boards again. L_Master and I will perhaps see each other in person once again and go for a good run, maybe possibly?
Yea that's a sweet run Nony. 1:12 is no joke, especially since you're not doing crazy training or coming in with a massive base of running 100+ mpw. Sure looks like you'll be seeing sub 70 in the not too distant future.
@Mtmentat - When is DH Denver again? I could see myself making an appearance or even helping out with a race if you want to organize something. Also when does the Rattlesnake ramble take place?
As for meeting up...yea absolutely. I'm in Fort Collins now going to school, so Boulder is like a 40 minute drive for me, significantly more accessible than before. I'll be 98% bike stuff till May/June, but after that I'll be running. Grand Canyon is still in discussion as well too.
As for myself, I popped a damn good one yesterday, doing just shy of 380w for 6'. Best part was I had a ton left as I was able to do over 450w for the last 1'. I'd say that's sorta analogous to running something like 3:45 to the bell and being able to close with a 60 or something...there was alot there.
It's better than I did at this time last year, and I'm in a much more "basier" period than last year, so I feel like it bodes well. Now just to keep eating right and getting in as much as I can in the way of group rides/experience.
On January 18 2017 07:23 mtmentat wrote: Bonham will make a triumphant return to marathoning and start blowing us off the Strava boards again.
Ha, we will see. The tendon is coming around and my hip/knee feel good, but I'm really trying to keep focus on getting healthy before I let my imagination run wild with race plans. When I do eventually start getting ready for a marathon, I think I'll run slightly fewer miles and use cross-training in place of some recovery runs. An hour on the bike instead of a second 10k run, type thing.
On January 18 2017 07:23 mtmentat wrote: 2016 recap: My wife and I had a daughter! 'Lowest mileage year since 2012, just barely enough pre-infant miles under my belt to qualify for Boston (3:00:30 downhill at-altitude, gut-it-out marathon). Pretty sure my goals were met, just with a little less running at the end of 2016 than I would have liked. There were reasons, but happily not because of injuries or any health problems with little gal.
Congrats! That's awesome. My brother became a dad for the first time last year, and I've been enjoying uncledom very much. (I must say it's nice to be able to hand her back to her parents when she poops/pukes/starts to cry.) I hope your little girl is doing great and sleeping through the night like a champ.
On January 18 2017 12:28 L_Master wrote: Now just to keep eating right and getting in as much as I can in the way of group rides/experience.
Man, I feel you on that. One of the many things I dislike about being injured or unable to run for whatever reason is the way weightgain creeps up on you. Plus I'm turning 30 this year, which makes me suspect my metabolism will slow down in the next few years. I foresee the need for more dietary discipline in my future. Hooray.
Yeah, diet is something I still need to work on. Like my ribs are hardly defined, mostly just a smooth surface on my torso and a bit of a belly... I think I ought to lose like 10 pounds. It's just kinda lack of focus, not some great struggle with addiction/craving/hunger. If I had someone following me around all day reminding me what to eat and not eat, I'd just say "ok" and be fine. I've shed pounds before without much anguish. So I should really get those calories counted and restricted asap so I can start to steadily drop.
Oh and I'm trying to get a better grasp on my training overall, do a better job of keeping records and knowing what I've done. I like handling things day-to-day to an extent but knowing my own training history in more detail will be useful. Thankfully I've been uploading my runs to strava so I've got some records at least since early 2016. I jotted this down for a better overview of my 2016.
jan 17 -- 1:21:58 PR (previous training unrecorded. 9 weeks of 35 mpw?) feb 22 - may 8 (11 weeks - 51 mpw) -- first significant training (1:16:32 PR) may 9 - july 24 (11 weeks - 31 mpw) -- back pain, toe pain (injured foot at bay to breakers, back from moving furniture) july 25 - sept 25 (9 weeks - 9 mpw) -- time off to recover from injuries sept 26 - nov 13 (7 weeks - 30 mpw) -- started training again for monterey (1:18:19) nov 14 - jan 15 (9 weeks - 40 mpw) -- continuing to build mileage. ~6 HQ workouts. (1:12:25 PR)
On January 19 2017 06:51 NonY wrote: Yeah, diet is something I still need to work on. Like my ribs are hardly defined, mostly just a smooth surface on my torso and a bit of a belly... I think I ought to lose like 10 pounds. It's just kinda lack of focus, not some great struggle with addiction/craving/hunger. If I had someone following me around all day reminding me what to eat and not eat, I'd just say "ok" and be fine. I've shed pounds before without much anguish. So I should really get those calories counted and restricted asap so I can start to steadily drop.
Oh and I'm trying to get a better grasp on my training overall, do a better job of keeping records and knowing what I've done. I like handling things day-to-day to an extent but knowing my own training history in more detail will be useful. Thankfully I've been uploading my runs to strava so I've got some records at least since early 2016. I jotted this down for a better overview of my 2016.
jan 17 -- 1:21:58 PR (previous training unrecorded. 9 weeks of 35 mpw?) feb 22 - may 8 (11 weeks - 51 mpw) -- first significant training (1:16:32 PR) may 9 - july 24 (11 weeks - 31 mpw) -- back pain, toe pain (injured foot at bay to breakers, back from moving furniture) july 25 - sept 25 (9 weeks - 9 mpw) -- time off to recover from injuries sept 26 - nov 13 (7 weeks - 30 mpw) -- started training again for monterey (1:18:19) nov 14 - jan 15 (9 weeks - 40 mpw) -- continuing to build mileage. ~6 HQ workouts. (1:12:25 PR)
Yea, that's serious talent to be running like that off medium mileage and not a ton of workouts.
Not to mention 10 lbs is worth a significant amount too if you have that to lose. At a minimum it's worth 2-3 minutes, but for myself and most people I know they find closer to 2 s/mile/lb, so that's more like 5-7 minutes.
My man Kenny B is running the Dubai marathon tomorrow. His coach says he's injury free and ready to make a serious attempt at the world record. If the weather cooperates, expect great things!
Pacers targeting 61:00 for the half, holy shit. It's starting in just over 4 hours from my post but I can't find any TV coverage info about it. Just some shitty streaming service.
edit: I've got the European stream going, high quality and stable. Here we go.
Bekele fell at the start. Dropped out a little over halfway. Starting pace was pretty crazy, like they were going much faster than WR pace and faster than the splits of the current WR performance.
Was going to report the DNF, but NonY beat me to it.
A word on the pacing: Dubai is famous for having absolutely no appearance fees, so the elites usually engage in a last-man-standing strategy where they go hell for leather over the first 30k and then desperately try to hang on.
I'm going to chalk my man Kenny B's DNF up to warm weather and his desire to keep his powder dry for London in a few months. Still expecting great things!
I mean apparently he got kind of trampled at the start. The first 1k was "slow" but I bet he had to do it quite fast to catch up after his horrible start. And then the first 5k total was suicidal fast (14:20) and Bekele probably did more like a 14:10 effort.
London should be exciting. Hopefully a nice clean attempt.
Anyone experienced with Strava? Let's say you run a race and you record the data on your watch, upload to Strava. It inevitably doesn't have your official time or the official distance of the race. It's just showing the gps data, obviously. Is there any way to keep the activity with all pace/HR/elevation data, but also to put in the official numbers? So that when I go through my training log and I see a race on the calendar, I can see my official time, and then when I click on the activity, I can view the data. I thought when I marked an activity as Race, it was going to give me the opportunity to do that, but I'm not seeing anything.
edit: I figured it out now. It offers that option when it detects that your activity is for a race that is on strava's list of races. But if it's not on that list, no special treatment, even if you yourself mark it as a race. So I'm using that option when I can, otherwise I'm putting official time and pace in the activity's description.
I'm up to being able to run for two miles, going to slowly increase the milage so I don't hurt myself. I feel like I'm dying through most of it but I feel great after. The dying feeling goes away right?
Edit: some of the dying feeling is probably the terrible air quality in the winter where I live.
On January 21 2017 11:16 JumboJohnson wrote: I'm up to being able to run for two miles, going to slowly increase the milage so I don't hurt myself. I feel like I'm dying through most of it but I feel great after. The dying feeling goes away right?
Absolutely! That or you fall in love with it; I've never been able to tell the difference.
On January 21 2017 11:16 JumboJohnson wrote: some of the dying feeling is probably the terrible air quality in the winter where I live.
I went to Vietnam for the first time this fall and I only ran twice the two weeks I was there. The traffic made it nearly impossible, but when I was in some quieter spots I soon encountered that lovely "I just inhaled an ash tray" feel you get from running in bad air. It made me really thankful that I live in Canada, where clean air (for the most part) can be taken for granted. Makes up for all the snow and ice, at least a little bit.
Where do you live? I hope the air isn't bad all the time, wherever it is.
On January 21 2017 11:16 JumboJohnson wrote: I'm up to being able to run for two miles, going to slowly increase the milage so I don't hurt myself. I feel like I'm dying through most of it but I feel great after. The dying feeling goes away right?
Yeah, every time I start running again after getting out of shape, I don't enjoy it for weeks. The first bit is hard as your muscles get used to running and your aerobic system gets used to the stress. Also if you're inflexible then that's no fun either. It takes me a while to get the mobility required for a comfortable stride.
What shoes are you guys running in? It's time for some new kicks for me but I'm unsure what to go with. I've been using Adidas for a while, Adizero Adios 3 for speedwork/racing, and sequence 9's as my trainers and for slower stuff last year.
The latest model of the sequences felt a bit bulky for my liking, I liked the 2015 model but the 2016 felt like too much stability for me, to a point where it was cumbersome. I'm ready to retire them after like 400 miles. One of my friends swears by the new Saucony's ISO's, but I'm really open to anything. The Adizeo Adios seem to be working well for my speed stuff, so I'll probably stick with those for speed and racing. But need a new pair more specifically for me slower/long runs and recovery.
On January 20 2017 03:47 Bonham wrote: My man Kenny B is running the Dubai marathon tomorrow. His coach says he's injury free and ready to make a serious attempt at the world record. If the weather cooperates, expect great things!
This sounds....familiar.
Too bad it didn't pan out. Fingers crossed his calf injury is not the chronic one and just a short acute one and he will be ready to roll. Bekele is probably my favorite runner. In part because we stride a little similar and he is built like me, and in part because he is just a general badass.
I mean come on, this is someone running THREE freaking miles and moving like this: youtu.be
On January 21 2017 11:16 JumboJohnson wrote: I'm up to being able to run for two miles, going to slowly increase the milage so I don't hurt myself. I feel like I'm dying through most of it but I feel great after. The dying feeling goes away right?
Yeah, every time I start running again after getting out of shape, I don't enjoy it for weeks. The first bit is hard as your muscles get used to running and your aerobic system gets used to the stress. Also if you're inflexible then that's no fun either. It takes me a while to get the mobility required for a comfortable stride.
Yea, I know what you mean. I don't feel like my stride is uncomfortable, it just feels clunky/jerky, heavy on the feet, and generally slow. None of which are pleasant sensations.
@Jumbo - If you are having a dying feeling that's probably in large part just running too quick for current fitness. Even tempo (i.e. marathon pace can feel bad if you're out of shape), and if you're running faster than that it can be even worse
As for me, finally got the elusive 100 mile ride in for the first time, and it was a good one, rolling around with the Oval group ride for most of it, which is basically a group of 40-60 of the best riders from the Fort Collins/Boulder area. Getting better at riding in groups, but still have a little work to do for sure. It's improving, but I have a tendency to not quite know how to move around in the group and find myself getting out of the draft or maneuvered into bad spots.
But it was a good ride today and I was able to finish among the strongest of the 2nd group on the road behind a really strong cat 1 and two pros that got away on the climb. For still being heavier (but back under 70kg at least) that's not too bad.
So far my training has been as good as you can ask for, and all the weakness I've made noticeable improvements on. I'm able to make a lot more FRC (anaerobic capacity) type moves without depleting the tank, and my sprint is vastly better than last year, maybe as much as 15%. Combine that with my fitness already being potentially as good as it was a month later last year, I'm really liking what I see in the tea leaves so far.
After 4 months of no running I finally started running again late in Dec. At first it was twice a week, but this week i finally ran 3 times in 6 days for the 1st time in months. Feeling motivated again to improve but im feeling very slow and heavy. Im 4kg above my avg weight so im trying to bring that number down as well.
On January 21 2017 11:16 JumboJohnson wrote: I'm up to being able to run for two miles, going to slowly increase the milage so I don't hurt myself. I feel like I'm dying through most of it but I feel great after. The dying feeling goes away right?
Absolutely! That or you fall in love with it; I've never been able to tell the difference.
On January 21 2017 11:16 JumboJohnson wrote: some of the dying feeling is probably the terrible air quality in the winter where I live.
I went to Vietnam for the first time this fall and I only ran twice the two weeks I was there. The traffic made it nearly impossible, but when I was in some quieter spots I soon encountered that lovely "I just inhaled an ash tray" feel you get from running in bad air. It made me really thankful that I live in Canada, where clean air (for the most part) can be taken for granted. Makes up for all the snow and ice, at least a little bit.
Where do you live? I hope the air isn't bad all the time, wherever it is.
I live in the Cache Valley in Utah so we get winter inversion. Its only been bad a few days fortunately. I went snowshoeing with some friends in fresh snow yesterday and all of my running has helped immensely. I was kicking their butts!
On January 20 2017 03:47 Bonham wrote: My man Kenny B is running the Dubai marathon tomorrow. His coach says he's injury free and ready to make a serious attempt at the world record. If the weather cooperates, expect great things!
This sounds....familiar.
Too bad it didn't pan out. Fingers crossed his calf injury is not the chronic one and just a short acute one and he will be ready to roll. Bekele is probably my favorite runner. In part because we stride a little similar and he is built like me, and in part because he is just a general badass.
I mean come on, this is someone running THREE freaking miles and moving like this: youtu.be
I like KB because he's a total badass. I'd be shocked if his 10k and 5k WRs are clean, but the list of people who hold dubious WRs is long. If by "great" we mean fast, KB is undeniably the GOAT.
On January 22 2017 15:32 L_Master wrote: As for me, finally got the elusive 100 mile ride in for the first time, and it was a good one, rolling around with the Oval group ride for most of it, which is basically a group of 40-60 of the best riders from the Fort Collins/Boulder area. Getting better at riding in groups, but still have a little work to do for sure. It's improving, but I have a tendency to not quite know how to move around in the group and find myself getting out of the draft or maneuvered into bad spots.
Sweet moves! Glad to hear the training is going well.
When you ride in big group, do you ever great freaked out? I ride basically just to commute. When I imagine being part of a big peloton, I worry about feeling helpless stuck in the middle of the pack. What if the riders at the front make a bad choice and get us all hit by a truck? What if someone right in front of me falls when we're going down a hill and we all fall at 60 kph?
As a more experienced, competitive rider, do you worry about these things? How do you deal with the risk?
On January 20 2017 03:47 Bonham wrote: My man Kenny B is running the Dubai marathon tomorrow. His coach says he's injury free and ready to make a serious attempt at the world record. If the weather cooperates, expect great things!
This sounds....familiar.
Too bad it didn't pan out. Fingers crossed his calf injury is not the chronic one and just a short acute one and he will be ready to roll. Bekele is probably my favorite runner. In part because we stride a little similar and he is built like me, and in part because he is just a general badass.
I mean come on, this is someone running THREE freaking miles and moving like this: youtu.be
I like KB because he's a total badass. I'd be shocked if his 10k and 5k WRs are clean, but the list of people who hold dubious WRs is long. If by "great" we mean fast, KB is undeniably the GOAT.
On January 22 2017 15:32 L_Master wrote: As for me, finally got the elusive 100 mile ride in for the first time, and it was a good one, rolling around with the Oval group ride for most of it, which is basically a group of 40-60 of the best riders from the Fort Collins/Boulder area. Getting better at riding in groups, but still have a little work to do for sure. It's improving, but I have a tendency to not quite know how to move around in the group and find myself getting out of the draft or maneuvered into bad spots.
Sweet moves! Glad to hear the training is going well.
When you ride in big group, do you ever great freaked out? I ride basically just to commute. When I imagine being part of a big peloton, I worry about feeling helpless stuck in the middle of the pack. What if the riders at the front make a bad choice and get us all hit by a truck? What if someone right in front of me falls when we're going down a hill and we all fall at 60 kph?
As a more experienced, competitive rider, do you worry about these things? How do you deal with the risk?
I'm on the nervous/cautious of things in general, so for sure I have. It was almost constant when new, now it's just on particularly tense occasions.
No way riders at the front could make a bad decision and get you hit by a car, because if they did something dumb and went across the road or turned in front of an oncoming car you don't have to follow. However, the rider in front of you going down is always a potential concern, and the truth is there isn't much you can do about it. It's pretty much either you accept that is a risk that can happen when you ride in a group, especially in a racier situation and make your peace with that...or you decide it's an unacceptable level of risk/potential hassel and don't race.
I'd say the general "consoling factor" for me is that 99% of crashes are not serious. You get some road rash which sucks, and maybe you break a collarbone, but injuries beyond that are rare; and truly traumatic ones are exceptionally rare. I think a rider dies in the pro peleton one average 2-3 times a decade. When you consider that there are probably 200-500 crashes in a given year, those are pretty low odds. I definitely think you're at higher risk of dying or being seriously injured getting in your car to drive than you are racing bikes.
Nowadays, I still have some nerves at times with cornering especially when people are really railing the corners/descents; but generally just riding in a pack doesn't feel too bad. Most moments are pretty relaxed and don't really seem scary once you're just used to being around others in close proximity on a bike. The nervy moments are like times when roads narrow, when the crosswinds get strong, or when riders are really fighting for position getting a bit physical...and then when sprinting, which is a whole different ballgame. That's almost a contact sport at times...done at 60-80kph under a teeth gritted maximal effort.
I am 27 years old and I don't hesitate to think myself in the best shape of my (adult) life - everything's going good; no injuries only a little bit of inflammation every now and then mostly in the Achilles tendon - a minor inconvenience that keeps me from doing one of my favorite things all day every day, namely running.
Enter concussion. I was walking down the street with a friend of mine discussing silly matters as always - when I noticed a man on the other side of the street who was burning something in a trash can - an unusual sight where I live even when it snows as was the case. What's more whatever he was burning smelled really really really peculiar. As I was watching from across the street wondering what was going on I wasn't paying attention to where I was going and walked into a traffic sign pole. Contrary to my friend I didn't really think much of it at the time and just went about my day. Next day, my head really hurt a lot and I felt absolutely utterly exhausted. Long story short I haven't been running for a week and I hope to be able to run again soon!!!
Speaking of bike crashes I'm down to share pictures of all my glorious scars if anyone's interested XD
Does anyone have any experience with cross country skiing? Just learned there's a non-zero chance I'll be living in Yukon this time next year. Apparently Whitehorse has a pretty sweet skiing trail network. I'm wondering how hard it is to learn, and how well it builds fitness for running.
In other news: how about that Nesta Carter bust yesterday? Don't forget, kids: Bolt is such a transcendent talent that he can beat fields bursting with doped-up sprinters while running totally clean himself! Amazing, really. What a superman.
On January 24 2017 09:30 SKNielsen1989 wrote: Enter concussion. D
That sucks man. I hope you bounce back quick. I admire your candor in sharing your story. A few years ago, I had my worst bike accident to date. (Not actually that bad.) I lost my balance while signalling a left turn in traffic and fell. My left elbow and hand were pretty ripped up and still have scars. But the worst part was the embarrassment. I felt like such a chump. No one had pushed me. A driver hadn't made an unexpected move. I'd just hit a small crack in the road with one hand on my handlebars and biffed it at low speed.
I know a lot of Nordic endurance athletes (running, biking, triathlon, swimming) go cross country skiing during their off-season to mix things up, for fun and because cross country skiing builds amazing cardiovascular fitness relative to how little the movements stress joints, ligaments and connective tissue.
It's reasonably simple and straightforward to learn.
On January 24 2017 09:30 SKNielsen1989 wrote: Enter concussion. D
That sucks man. I hope you bounce back quick. I admire your candor in sharing your story. A few years ago, I had my worst bike accident to date. (Not actually that bad.) I lost my balance while signalling a left turn in traffic and fell. My left elbow and hand were pretty ripped up and still have scars. But the worst part was the embarrassment. I felt like such a chump. No one had pushed me. A driver hadn't made an unexpected move. I'd just hit a small crack in the road with one hand on my handlebars and biffed it at low speed.
Only takes a moment of distraction for accidents to happen. I'm just grateful my own distraction never hurt anyone else over than myself. Just imagining hurting a fellow human being or a loved one because you let an accident happen is such a depressing thought.
As for my concussion, I'm not too worried. It's been 10 days and I feel a lot better; I will attempt a slow easy run soon. We'll see how it goes.
I read the book my wife got for Christmas and felt like a lot of the training policies were the same that I was going to use. There's nothing I really disagree with. It's just things I agree with and things I wasn't sure about so I figure I may as well try what a few experts suggest, especially when we agree on a lot of other points. I'm gonna start pretty slow though and do a "base building" training plan for a while, except I'm going to elongate it by repeating some of the weeks. The book discusses how to depart from the plans if you have to or want to so that'll be a liberty I'll always be considering. But at this point I figure I may as well have a plan to ground me to something, especially since it resonates with me so much.
The biggest immediate difference is doing longer runs and taking rest days (either completely off or just a shorter jog). It'll be weird for my diet and my morning routine to have my schedule all jagged like that but I think it'll be for the best. I liked eating about the same food every day with about the same workout every day, but now I've got a 13 mile run on Sunday and have Monday off... it's gonna be weird. I think I'll eat about the same breakfast and lunch every day and then have a substantial dinner the night before a bigger workout and just a snack or small meal on every other night.
Also I'm going to New Zealand for 2 weeks in March so that'll be its own training challenge. I figure I'll be doing only a few higher quality workouts and cutting out a lot of easier runs in favor of the cross-training I'll be getting from exploring the parks. My legs will be under a lot of unusual stress from so much walking on trails.
My goals for April are to weigh low 140's or 145 pounds or so, to have a strong aerobic base, and for my legs to have some familiarity with speedwork and higher intensity work so they'll be ready to do a full training schedule for 3 months before my July race.
The math on that July race: Get spotted 2 minutes from losing 15 pounds (1:10:25). Drop 2 more minutes from 6 months of quality training (1:08:25). Drop 30 more seconds from running the race better. Easy 1:07:55
On January 22 2017 21:04 Raidern wrote: After 4 months of no running I finally started running again late in Dec. At first it was twice a week, but this week i finally ran 3 times in 6 days for the 1st time in months. Feeling motivated again to improve but im feeling very slow and heavy. Im 4kg above my avg weight so im trying to bring that number down as well.
Yup, same for me. Winter has hit me pretty hard this year and I'm looking forward to getting outside again when it warms up. I'm up about 7kg right now, which is quite noticeable to me. When I did my last bigger run in may I was around 180 pounds leaned out (the year before I was 170, but I have put on quite a bit of muscle), but now I'm up to 200 and it's bugging me quite a bit. My strategy this year is to sign up for a bunch of charity fun runs and half marathons to keep a goal for myself. I find I struggle quite a bit when I don't have something to work toward.
The few runs I've done outside this winter (I don't run outside when it's below -10, and it has been quite cold for the last few months) have actually been better than I thought they would be. I definitely feel heavy but I don't feel quite as slow as I thought. I was aiming for my 5k times last summer +3 minutes and I was only about 30 seconds off each time.
I just started treadmill running to prep for my first run, which is in early march. It's only a 10k so I'm not too concerned. I'm already noticing I'm feeling lighter, though I haven't weighed myself yet. My goal is to be down to at least 185 or 180 for my half marathon in May. I think if I keep watching what I eat and keep a schedule running I'll be down at that quickly enough.
And the weather in the midwest is ... unpredictable. One day it's bordering on 60 degrees (Fahrenheit) and overcast, the next it's 35 and rainy, then the next it's 30 and snowing. It's making training for my next marathon challenging. When I can get a day where its dry and between 35-50 it's heaven, but lately its a lot of cold rain and a few flurries, so I've been doing more treadmill running than I particularly care for. I've got a pair of Solomon trail running shoes coming in soon so I can run the snowy streets with more confidence, but until then it's more treadmill time, more sweating, and more misery. My god the amount of chafing due to treadmill sweat and no adequate breeze from movement to alleviate it ... I usually never chafe but fuck me. I've got a 19 mile training run planned for tomorrow on a treadmill ... not exactly psyched.
Anyways the plan for the next 4 months is as such:
March 19: L.A. Marathon - goal sub 3:00:00 May 7: Cincinnati Flying Pig Marathon - goal beat PR on course (3:18:12)
The sub 3 goal is probably my most optimistic goal. I'd realistically be happy with anything else that would BQ and even with a sub 3:10:00, which would be a PR by about 10 minutes. If anything goes wrong in L.A. I'll try harder to shoot for a faster run closer to home, but I'd prefer to BQ on the flatter, faster course, rather than one that has like 750 ft. elevation gain. If I'm being realistic about my current fitness level I think a 3:05:00 is attainable for me in L.A. but sub 3 might not be. Maybe I'm being too hard on myself but we'll see. The one positive of the the treadmill runs is that it is also just about the only way I can simulate such a flat course. The hills of southern Ohio make doing that on roads pretty much impossible.
Overall fitness wise I feel much better leading up to this marathon attempt than I did the last (but that's not saying much). At 6'1 (185 cm) and 166 lbs (75 kg) I'm very envious of the weights everyone here is training at. I'd love to lose 10 lbs but I think 5 lbs is the most I'll be able to cut. My diet is shit, and I just don't quite have everything streamlined in my life well enough to avoid shit food. A new market finally opened up close to me last week, we'll see if I can utilize it. Before that I had been living in a food desert of sorts. There will be a proper supermarket open in the spring less than 1 minute away so I eagerly await that day. Gonna do my best to get below 160 but I'll settle for being 3 or 4 lbs lighter.
Anyways it looks like you guys are up to some exciting stuff already. Bonham 2:30 or 2:35 would be sick I hope your Achilles has cooled down by now. NonY, 1:12 for the start of your racing season ... keep tearing up those roads man! Congrats on the baby+BQ mtmentat! Huge combo! Hope everyone can stay healthy and get to where they want to be!
It was finally warm out the other day so I got to do a nice long outdoor. I haven't done more than 5k at a time for the last few months but that day I felt like doing a 10k. I actually managed 12, which felt amazing. I paced myself much better than normal and felt totally fine at the end. I was going to continue to 15k but one of my shoes got wet and I felt a blister forming on the side of my foot (It was a big ol' blood blister so it's probably good I stopped).
It's now set to be cold again for the next couple weeks so I'm counting down the days until it's warm again so I can get back out at it. I'm going to do treadmill more often in the meantime.
Here's my experience. With the "Zombies, Run!" app I started out slow (5km runs for 2 months about 2 times weekly, about 2 years ago), did a small amount of running in March-April last year (total about 40 km), and from July end 2016, finally started with a training program which had the goal of preparing me for a half marathon eventually. In late october, I ran 2 of them, and it was an amazing feeling, but now I haven't been running due to slacking off or slippery roads. I kind of want to start again, but it's still terrible weather for it (I'll try to start around march, when the ice and snow is gone) and I want to set an OK goal. Would a marathon be doable within this year if I start training in March?
On February 05 2017 15:02 mustaju wrote: Here's my experience. With the "Zombies, Run!" app I started out slow (5km runs for 2 months about 2 times weekly, about 2 years ago), did a small amount of running in March-April last year (total about 40 km), and from July end 2016, finally started with a training program which had the goal of preparing me for a half marathon eventually. In late october, I ran 2 of them, and it was an amazing feeling, but now I haven't been running due to slacking off or slippery roads. I kind of want to start again, but it's still terrible weather for it (I'll try to start around march, when the ice and snow is gone) and I want to set an OK goal. Would a marathon be doable within this year if I start training in March?
Yes, it would absolutely be possible. 6-9 months is plenty of time to prepare. That said, I generally encourage people to focus more on running faster, rather than just doing longer races; unless doing a specific race is just something you really feel you must do.
Rehabbing my Achilles tendon has taken far more time and patience that I anticipated. However, I am moving in the right direction. After so many false starts and foiled hopes, I hesitate to think about a return date. But it's coming. When it does, goal A1 will be to run healthy each day and take a sensible view to rebuilding my fitness. A sub-2:30 marathon might be in my future or it might not. I've gotta take things one step at a time.
In the meantime, I've been cycling a bit more--usually around an hour day. It's been very interesting, mostly because people who I think I should pass no problem usually drop me with no apparent effort. Today I was coming down the hill around Stanley Park, about a 3k sustained downhill with very light traffic, smooth pavement, and no lights. There was a middle-aged woman carrying some extra weight on a fancy race bike ahead of me, and I could not catch her for love nor money until the road flattened out. She wasn't riding very hard; I bet she took one pedal stroke for every three of mine.
L_Master and other cycling people: is there a way to calculate how much I'm giving up in these encounters because of my bike? I thought it was a negligible amount but events like today's make me suspicious. I ride a Kona Jake the Snake, which is a cyclocross bike with a steel frame. I've replaced the knobbly tires that came with it with some smooth ones. Not super skinny like a race bike, but certainly not what I would call fat.
On March 21 2017 06:58 Bonham wrote: A wild update appears! It's not very effective.
Rehabbing my Achilles tendon has taken far more time and patience that I anticipated. However, I am moving in the right direction. After so many false starts and foiled hopes, I hesitate to think about a return date. But it's coming. When it does, goal A1 will be to run healthy each day and take a sensible view to rebuilding my fitness. A sub-2:30 marathon might be in my future or it might not. I've gotta take things one step at a time.
In the meantime, I've been cycling a bit more--usually around an hour day. It's been very interesting, mostly because people who I think I should pass no problem usually drop me with no apparent effort. Today I was coming down the hill around Stanley Park, about a 3k sustained downhill with very light traffic, smooth pavement, and no lights. There was a middle-aged woman carrying some extra weight on a fancy race bike ahead of me, and I could not catch her for love nor money until the road flattened out. She wasn't riding very hard; I bet she took one pedal stroke for every three of mine.
L_Master and other cycling people: is there a way to calculate how much I'm giving up in these encounters because of my bike? I thought it was a negligible amount but events like today's make me suspicious. I ride a Kona Jake the Snake, which is a cyclocross bike with a steel frame. I've replaced the knobbly tires that came with it with some smooth ones. Not super skinny like a race bike, but certainly not what I would call fat.
Truth is, that bike, while it is a cross bike; is not too dissimilar from a dedicated road bike. It probably weighs a couple lbs more, but it's profile is going to be similar. When it comes to bike speed there are really just three players: Weight, Aerodynamics, and Rolling Resistance. On the flat, weight hardly matters. It really comes down to rolling resistance and aerodynamics; of which aerodynamics is by FAR the bigger component. And of course in the case of this lady, weight would actually be an advantage on the downhill.
It looks like you did eventually catch her though, if I'm seeing the flyby right and thinking it was on your second trip?
If your bike has smooth road tyres you should be giving up very little there. That said, unless you ride a ton of a gravel I would highly recommend picking up a decent set of tyres such as the Continental Gatorskin tyres (usually 25 or 28mm is best). They aren't particularly expensive and do a great job with flat resistance and the like while offering decent handling characteristics.
Next thing you'd have to check is your tyre pressure. For a normal road tyre you'd be looking at 80-100 psi most likely. If you're way below this, that could be costing you a little bit. Also, if you're drivetrain is really dirty/rusty/worn that could also be costing you some power, maybe 5-10% for a bad case.
Next question would be, what are you wearing? If you're out there in a t shirt and some athletic shorts...that can definitely be costing you a little, especially when speeds are up over 30-35 kph.
Beyond that, it's hard to say. You're riding a route the doesn't seem especially flat; and covering it usually is the 15-16 mph range, with some sections at a really, really, low HR. That to me isn't that slow. Though looking at your HR, in all honesty it doesn't really seem like you were trying particularly hard to catch her, with your HR going into the low 120s.
If you feel up for it and want to give a few rips; I'd be really interested to see what you could do for a full gas rip up that Stanley Park climb. Pedal really easy for a lap, then give that same kind of effort but on the downhill after the climb instead. On a different ride it would also be good to see a hard effort for say 2 laps of Stanley Park Loop. Similar to a HM type effort. Consistent on the ups and downs, but good power.
Thanks for the detailed response! Some quick pertinent notes right before I run out the door to work:
My tires aren't smooth--they have grooves. These ones: www.ribblecycles.co.uk. I also have disc brakes!
Tire pressure and drive train should be good; I cleaned and oiled the latter while inflating the former on Sunday.
I'm wearing a rain jacket and my running shorts, which means that if I ever fall I'm going to get road rash in some interesting places.
Regarding heart rate data: that all comes from my watch's monitor in my wrist. I've been told that it doesn't work very well for skinny people and found its readings to be generally out to lunch. I've stopped looking at it when running/riding. I'm extremely skeptical that its readings are accurate, though I suppose their relative position might be in tune.
R.e. further tests: sure, I'd be down! I don't grasp your phrasing for the first one though. You're saying I should ride slow for one lap, then bust it up the climb, then coast down the backside? Is that right?
On March 22 2017 00:06 Bonham wrote: Thanks for the detailed response! Some quick pertinent notes right before I run out the door to work:
My tires aren't smooth--they have grooves. These ones: www.ribblecycles.co.uk. I also have disc brakes!
Tire pressure and drive train should be good; I cleaned and oiled the latter while inflating the former on Sunday.
I'm wearing a rain jacket and my running shorts, which means that if I ever fall I'm going to get road rash in some interesting places.
Regarding heart rate data: that all comes from my watch's monitor in my wrist. I've been told that it doesn't work very well for skinny people and found its readings to be generally out to lunch. I've stopped looking at it when running/riding. I'm extremely skeptical that its readings are accurate, though I suppose their relative position might be in tune.
R.e. further tests: sure, I'd be down! I don't grasp your phrasing for the first one though. You're saying I should ride slow for one lap, then bust it up the climb, then coast down the backside? Is that right?
Yea pretty much. Think of going up the hill as a 1500m race effort or whatever. Before would just be warm up, and then obviously right after you're going to be pretty winded, so you just coast and take it easy for a minute or two as you recover. Nothing wrong with soft pedaling if that feels better.
And yea, I have to admit, your HR data does look pretty wonky much of the team, even going back and looking at some of your workouts one repeat would be like 170bpm and another would be like 150.
Yea pretty much. Think of going up the hill as a 1500m race effort or whatever. Before would just be warm up, and then obviously right after you're going to be pretty winded, so you just coast and take it easy for a minute or two as you recover. Nothing wrong with soft pedaling if that feels better.
And yea, I have to admit, your HR data does look pretty wonky much of the team, even going back and looking at some of your workouts one repeat would be like 170bpm and another would be like 150.
Alright, just off the bike from a three-lap ride of the park. First was a warmup, second one was kind of a tempo effort, third was cooldown. Took a fair few scalps when I was going hard, which was fun. Biking is OK, you know? It's no running, but it's not bad.
Yea pretty much. Think of going up the hill as a 1500m race effort or whatever. Before would just be warm up, and then obviously right after you're going to be pretty winded, so you just coast and take it easy for a minute or two as you recover. Nothing wrong with soft pedaling if that feels better.
And yea, I have to admit, your HR data does look pretty wonky much of the team, even going back and looking at some of your workouts one repeat would be like 170bpm and another would be like 150.
Alright, just off the bike from a three-lap ride of the park. First was a warmup, second one was kind of a tempo effort, third was cooldown. Took a fair few scalps when I was going hard, which was fun. Biking is OK, you know? It's no running, but it's not bad.
Yea it's got it's fun parts for sure. The feel of a good bike ride can never match one of those runs where you are just in sync and it feels like your legs have just disappeared as you float across the ground...
That said, I think cycling overall is generally a bit more interesting than running, little more social if you're into that, and the racing is definitely far more interesting. Unless you're an elite every race is a time trial. Suffering is good, and there are time trials in cycling, but the variety and tactics of bike racing definitely wins out from that regard.
Nice rolling of Stanley, pretty good speed, especially up that climb.
To be honest, instead of a hard Stanley what I'd really love to see is a full gas effort up this guy (assuming it's accessible): www.strava.com. You hit that as hard as you can and it's pretty easy to tell exactly how much power you're putting down on the bike.
After a late start on training due to finals and a busy work schedule, January was the best month for running I had since early last summer. It was unseasonably warm this winter and I was able to get the most out of these 40 and 50 degree (F) days for a while. I was feeling pretty good and getting into the big distance weeks late in the month and early February when I had a few minor injuries that made February essentially a wash. First the quad, then a lower back strain made for a few setbacks. By mid-late February the cold finally hit hard for a small period of time and I did not do my part to put in any work, which, along with the small injuries, would come back to bite me.
Fast forward to Mid-March in Los Angeles.
The first half was a breeze. PR for 15k, 20k, and Half. Running with 3:05 pacer and just feeling in the zone. the majority of the elevation gain is throughout the city, so by 15 or 16 miles I'm thinking I could hit my goal and qualify.
It was not to be. Hit the wall hard in mile 17, just didn't have the milage under my belt during training. Fell off gradually and naturally my sister (who was running her first marathon) BQ'd and now I'm looking at what I can do before Cincinnati's Flying Pig in May to join her. Ugh. Frustrating race but I got what I deserved after not putting in the mileage i needed to in training.
Went for an 8k test run last week that somehow flared everything up real bad. For a few days I thought I'd torn it again and I was very, very sad. But it's improved so much in the last few days that I do not think this is likely. Still, it taught me an important lesson: play it safe.
I'm now swimming/biking exclusively. I'm due to get some physio next Monday, so I might hazard a run after that if the auspices are favorable. My mantra right now is "play it safe, play it safe, and don't forget to play it safe."
On March 27 2017 08:42 p4NDemik wrote: It was not to be. Hit the wall hard in mile 17, just didn't have the milage under my belt during training. Fell off gradually and naturally my sister (who was running her first marathon) BQ'd and now I'm looking at what I can do before Cincinnati's Flying Pig in May to join her. Ugh. Frustrating race but I got what I deserved after not putting in the mileage i needed to in training.
Don't despair--blowing up in a marathon, especially your first, is a long and hallowed tradition. You're way more one of us than your freak look-at-how-easy-I-qualified sister. How's the build for Flying Pig going?
3) I ran my first official marathon a month later in 3:26:37 (I was aiming for Boston QA but bonked hard between 21k and 30k), but came in 2nd overall. raceroster.com
So far in 2017 I have been wandering...Not really sure what I want to do. I was always more of a speed guy, so I want to try to get my 5K and 10K down lower, currently 19:00 and 41:30 respectively, and was wondering if I should focus on one over the other? I am currently doing anywhere from 30-50 mpw and would like to hover around 40-50.
I have the Daniel's Running Formula book, but he combines the 5 and 10k training together.
A couple questions:
1) Is there different training for each one, or they about the same? Any specific? I'd like to go sub 18 5K by the fall... I know, I know, its harder than it seems, etc. I have probably 10-15 pounds I could shed though . 2) At my current level, is there a race I should be focusing on (maybe 10K training would improve all aspects, etc?) - I am 30 years old as of a couple months ago.
Thanks in advance for the help!
The first half was a breeze. PR for 15k, 20k, and Half. Running with 3:05 pacer and just feeling in the zone. the majority of the elevation gain is throughout the city, so by 15 or 16 miles I'm thinking I could hit my goal and qualify.
It was not to be. Hit the wall hard in mile 17, just didn't have the milage under my belt during training. Fell off gradually and naturally my sister (who was running her first marathon) BQ'd and now I'm looking at what I can do before Cincinnati's Flying Pig in May to join her. Ugh. Frustrating race but I got what I deserved after not putting in the mileage i needed to in training.
same thing happened to me around the half mark. all the best next time you go out.
The book I have has different plans for 5k and 8k-10k. The workouts in the 5k plan are a little shorter and there are a few more of them at 3k-5k pace. I wouldn't say that the training is very different. If you wanted to train a little more specifically for one or the other, you could replace a slower/longer workout with a faster/shorter workout to target the 5k or vice versa for the 10k. For 5k, especially for a marathon runner, it's pretty important to get in several workouts at 5k pace or faster (not counting speed work) so that you get familiar with the pace and effort.
On April 07 2017 06:44 Bonham wrote: And now it's time for tendon news with Bonham:
Went for an 8k test run last week that somehow flared everything up real bad. For a few days I thought I'd torn it again and I was very, very sad. But it's improved so much in the last few days that I do not think this is likely. Still, it taught me an important lesson: play it safe.
I'm now swimming/biking exclusively. I'm due to get some physio next Monday, so I might hazard a run after that if the auspices are favorable. My mantra right now is "play it safe, play it safe, and don't forget to play it safe."
On March 27 2017 08:42 p4NDemik wrote: It was not to be. Hit the wall hard in mile 17, just didn't have the milage under my belt during training. Fell off gradually and naturally my sister (who was running her first marathon) BQ'd and now I'm looking at what I can do before Cincinnati's Flying Pig in May to join her. Ugh. Frustrating race but I got what I deserved after not putting in the mileage i needed to in training.
Don't despair--blowing up in a marathon, especially your first, is a long and hallowed tradition. You're way more one of us than your freak look-at-how-easy-I-qualified sister. How's the build for Flying Pig going?
On May 02 2017 21:30 NonY wrote: The book I have has different plans for 5k and 8k-10k. The workouts in the 5k plan are a little shorter and there are a few more of them at 3k-5k pace. I wouldn't say that the training is very different. If you wanted to train a little more specifically for one or the other, you could replace a slower/longer workout with a faster/shorter workout to target the 5k or vice versa for the 10k. For 5k, especially for a marathon runner, it's pretty important to get in several workouts at 5k pace or faster (not counting speed work) so that you get familiar with the pace and effort.
Yeah, I was thinking along the same lines. Wouldn't running at 5k pace technically be a speed workout, though?
P.S. Did you ever end up doing that challenge where you run 26.2 miles, win 26.2 games of Starcraft and eat 26.2 donuts in one day?
On May 02 2017 21:30 NonY wrote: The book I have has different plans for 5k and 8k-10k. The workouts in the 5k plan are a little shorter and there are a few more of them at 3k-5k pace. I wouldn't say that the training is very different. If you wanted to train a little more specifically for one or the other, you could replace a slower/longer workout with a faster/shorter workout to target the 5k or vice versa for the 10k. For 5k, especially for a marathon runner, it's pretty important to get in several workouts at 5k pace or faster (not counting speed work) so that you get familiar with the pace and effort.
Yeah, I was thinking along the same lines. Wouldn't running at 5k pace technically be a speed workout, though?
P.S. Did you ever end up doing that challenge where you run 26.2 miles, win 26.2 games of Starcraft and eat 26.2 donuts in one day?
That can depend on what you mean by speedwork. Some people use that to mean anything faster than about threshold pace. Others use it to mean any workouts that focus on lactate clearance or aerobic fatigue resistance (usually looking at least 3k pace, but generally faster). Others use it to mean true "speedwork" in the sense actually improving your top end speed, i.e. sprint work; stuff like hill sprints, flying 30s/60s, starts, etc.
So the Flying Pig was yesterday. I had run exactly 5 out of 48 days since L.A. I could have done more work, but for the most part the lack of training was due to April being particularly busy. Both jobs cranking along, the last weeks of the spring semester, along with social commitments, and I had essentially told myself I was putting running lower in my set of priorities.
The days run by all accounts should have been an absolute shit show. I got up, got prepped, left my house and got parked. As I got out of my car I realized I didn't put on my Garmin but had left it charging. "Fuck it," I thought to myself. Going into that weekend I had told myself I would just run without any pressure. Not even try to qualify, just run to finish and enjoy it. Oh well. Weather was actually pretty great - low 30's at start, predicted to warm to just around 50 Fahrenheit at finish. Much better than last year.
So I got to the starting area, got prepped, stretched, and proceeded to the pig pens as they call them. I dropped back to pig pen B instead of A as I didn't want to run with the faster group out of the gate. Also, Pig Pen B had portable toilets that I needed to use. So I waited in line to use them. As I entered I dropped my energy gels on the ground because my shorts don't have a spare pocket and I'm not bringing them anywhere in that god forsaken stall. Anyways, point is I get out of the stall, proceed to the front of pen B and forget my gels.
Start race, go out at reasonable pace, trying to keep pace with the 3:20 pacer, but out of traffic. By mile two we hit the first aid station, I get gatorade, and I realize I've left my gels at the starting line. FUCK IT. I have the thought "I'm going to bonk even fucking harder than L.A." for a moment but I manage not to dwell on it by remarking at my idiocy to a few nearby runners, whom I'm sure did not give one shit. FUCK IT. I'm just going to run.
And run I did. Very steady 7:33 to 7:25 pace for 7 miles ... 10 miles ... at the half ... 15 miles. It's at this point in the race when the course has taken us out of the city and into the NE suburbs of Cincinnati. At 15 miles I took off my long sleeve compression shirt as things were beginning to warm up. At this point all elevation gain is behind me and it's a long, steady downhill for some time. By mile 19 I was beginning to realize I was somehow in good shape. I felt better than I had the previous year and was steadily gaining on the 3:15 pacer that I had in eye-sight for quite some time. I nab a free GU shot hoping it will do anything, but doubting it will (why the fuck do they give these out at mile 19 and not mile 9?).
By mile 22 the course flattens out along the Ohio River and you get glimpses of the city in the distance. Knowing how close I was to the pacer, how well I was feeling, and how close I was to the finish, despite my lack of further training after L.A., despite my idiotic ditching of my gels, I could taste a PR. I probably pushed my pace up to 7:20 or slightly lower for a mile or two in an effort to reach the pacer group and coast with or overtake them. That was probably a burst of energy slightly too early.
Right at the 25 mile marker my right hamstring cramps up entirely and I enjoy the splendor of walking peg-leg in front of spectators for about 30 or so seconds. Eventually the cramp unwinds itself and I can walk with a decent gait, then I can start lightly jogging again. By the time I'm jogging again I can see the 25.2 time station and the clock: 3:10 and change. 3:18:12 was my time last year (PR). Fucking hell.
"Well fuck. I guess I'm doing this." I think. I curse a few times and probably offend a few families as I start into a faster pace. Hamstring seems fine. No reason I can't do this. My arms are bent at a hairpin angle, my form is shit, but I'm able to squeeze out a decent push. 3:17:39. 7:10 final mile. PR. No fucking idea how I got there other than having great race weather. Because I did not put in the work, and my fuel plan was completely out the window.
Weird race, but it was in the end very satisfying I suppose. Not the elusive BQ I had previously been chasing but it was still quite sweet. I'll take a PR whenever I can get it. Oddly enough, last year I had to pee in the first mile and I paused my watch while I was in the portable toilet. My unofficial time in the 2016 Flying Pig going by my watch? 3:17:39. Spooky. Cheers guys! I'm gonna take a few weeks off running and then check back in when I've decided what my next race will be.
On May 09 2017 15:24 p4NDemik wrote: So the Flying Pig was yesterday. I had run exactly 5 out of 48 days since L.A. I could have done more work, but for the most part the lack of training was due to April being particularly busy. Both jobs cranking along, the last weeks of the spring semester, along with social commitments, and I had essentially told myself I was putting running lower in my set of priorities.
The days run by all accounts should have been an absolute shit show. I got up, got prepped, left my house and got parked. As I got out of my car I realized I didn't put on my Garmin but had left it charging. "Fuck it," I thought to myself. Going into that weekend I had told myself I would just run without any pressure. Not even try to qualify, just run to finish and enjoy it. Oh well. Weather was actually pretty great - low 30's at start, predicted to warm to just around 50 Fahrenheit at finish. Much better than last year.
So I got to the starting area, got prepped, stretched, and proceeded to the pig pens as they call them. I dropped back to pig pen B instead of A as I didn't want to run with the faster group out of the gate. Also, Pig Pen B had portable toilets that I needed to use. So I waited in line to use them. As I entered I dropped my energy gels on the ground because my shorts don't have a spare pocket and I'm not bringing them anywhere in that god forsaken stall. Anyways, point is I get out of the stall, proceed to the front of pen B and forget my gels.
Start race, go out at reasonable pace, trying to keep pace with the 3:20 pacer, but out of traffic. By mile two we hit the first aid station, I get gatorade, and I realize I've left my gels at the starting line. FUCK IT. I have the thought "I'm going to bonk even fucking harder than L.A." for a moment but I manage not to dwell on it by remarking at my idiocy to a few nearby runners, whom I'm sure did not give one shit. FUCK IT. I'm just going to run.
And run I did. Very steady 7:33 to 7:25 pace for 7 miles ... 10 miles ... at the half ... 15 miles. It's at this point in the race when the course has taken us out of the city and into the NE suburbs of Cincinnati. At 15 miles I took off my long sleeve compression shirt as things were beginning to warm up. At this point all elevation gain is behind me and it's a long, steady downhill for some time. By mile 19 I was beginning to realize I was somehow in good shape. I felt better than I had the previous year and was steadily gaining on the 3:15 pacer that I had in eye-sight for quite some time. I nab a free GU shot hoping it will do anything, but doubting it will (why the fuck do they give these out at mile 19 and not mile 9?).
By mile 22 the course flattens out along the Ohio River and you get glimpses of the city in the distance. Knowing how close I was to the pacer, how well I was feeling, and how close I was to the finish, despite my lack of further training after L.A., despite my idiotic ditching of my gels, I could taste a PR. I probably pushed my pace up to 7:20 or slightly lower for a mile or two in an effort to reach the pacer group and coast with or overtake them. That was probably a burst of energy slightly too early.
Right at the 25 mile marker my right hamstring cramps up entirely and I enjoy the splendor of walking peg-leg in front of spectators for about 30 or so seconds. Eventually the cramp unwinds itself and I can walk with a decent gait, then I can start lightly jogging again. By the time I'm jogging again I can see the 25.2 time station and the clock: 3:10 and change. 3:18:12 was my time last year (PR). Fucking hell.
"Well fuck. I guess I'm doing this." I think. I curse a few times and probably offend a few families as I start into a faster pace. Hamstring seems fine. No reason I can't do this. My arms are bent at a hairpin angle, my form is shit, but I'm able to squeeze out a decent push. 3:17:39. 7:10 final mile. PR. No fucking idea how I got there other than having great race weather. Because I did not put in the work, and my fuel plan was completely out the window.
Weird race, but it was in the end very satisfying I suppose. Not the elusive BQ I had previously been chasing but it was still quite sweet. I'll take a PR whenever I can get it. Oddly enough, last year I had to pee in the first mile and I paused my watch while I was in the portable toilet. My unofficial time in the 2016 Flying Pig going by my watch? 3:17:39. Spooky. Cheers guys! I'm gonna take a few weeks off running and then check back in when I've decided what my next race will be.
Nice work! PR in sub-optimal conditions usually is a little annoying but a really nice confidence boost since it means your fitness is definitely as least as good as you were hoping it was. Marathon is really tough to get right, keep getting after it! Sub 3:10 or better coming up next one!
The situation is mysterious. After three false starts, I *think* I'm on the path back to running. But I'll know for sure in the next few weeks.
I was off in Spain for the last two weeks (where I turned 30; I'm old now everyone). Got in about 10k of walking a day which the tendon seemed to tolerate. Now back in North America where I can do more intensive rehab and, thank God, cycle again.
My physio has got me started on brisk walks post-cycling. The idea is to add 500m per walk and start from 2.5k until we get to 5k. I'm up to 3 and going for 3.5k today. So far the tendon feels fine, but it does still swell a bit right after the walk. Still, I'm hopeful I'll try an actual run sometime next week.
The situation is mysterious. After three false starts, I *think* I'm on the path back to running. But I'll know for sure in the next few weeks.
I was off in Spain for the last two weeks (where I turned 30; I'm old now everyone). Got in about 10k of walking a day which the tendon seemed to tolerate. Now back in North America where I can do more intensive rehab and, thank God, cycle again.
My physio has got me started on brisk walks post-cycling. The idea is to add 500m per walk and start from 2.5k until we get to 5k. I'm up to 3 and going for 3.5k today. So far the tendon feels fine, but it does still swell a bit right after the walk. Still, I'm hopeful I'll try an actual run sometime next week.
How's the cycling going? Any races coming up?
Well I had been pretty darn busy with school/work, been getting in a little training here and there but pretty minimal. Unfortunately 2 weeks ago had a training crash out riding with some teammates when one of them moved over for a drainage ditch and our bars got tangled.
Landed hard and ended up with a sprained right wrist/hairline fracture + grade III AC separation of the shoulder. First few days were utterly terrible, since it got at both sides of my body. Couldn't sleep from the pain in my right wrist, and couldn't use my right hand without extreme pain. Shoulder felt massively fucked up, and basically couldnt move the arm without significant pain. Made it next to impossible to be anything. Even eating was horribly uncomfortable. Fortunately my wrist went back to 95% in just a day so I didn't have to literally rely on friends cooking for me and such.
Good news is that it's definitely consistently improving. Bad news is the shoulder is taking it's sweet time. I imagine best case scenario is another 1-2 weeks before I feel good enough to ride (outside anyway), and probably 4-8 weeks before I've got pain free ROM back.
So yea...crappy start to the summer, especially when I was ready to get to work getting back in shape with some more time available. Right now it's a bit of an ugly picture though, as not only is my fitness a bit lacking, but I've really put on quite a bit of weight. Sitting at 75kg/165lb right now, compared to the 67-69kg/148-152lbs or so I've spent most of my time at.
Not sure I'll really have time to train super seriously again for the next year or so...but I guess it depends on just how bad my junior EE courses are, but the rumour on the street is to expect to do 30-40 hours per week outside of class for schoolwork, and then I work 20 hours a week or so as well. Given that, I probably won't try to train 15 hours a week on the bike. I'll either ride a little more casual and just try to stay "in shape", or possibly do some running since that's a little more time friendly. Remains to be seen
Trying to get back into running - its going well I guess but the time when I was young and I was running so effortlessly floating through the air - well that time seems distant. But I do enjoy running - not running for such a long time was definitely one of my many questionable lifestyle choices ^_^
The situation is mysterious. After three false starts, I *think* I'm on the path back to running. But I'll know for sure in the next few weeks.
I was off in Spain for the last two weeks (where I turned 30; I'm old now everyone). Got in about 10k of walking a day which the tendon seemed to tolerate. Now back in North America where I can do more intensive rehab and, thank God, cycle again.
My physio has got me started on brisk walks post-cycling. The idea is to add 500m per walk and start from 2.5k until we get to 5k. I'm up to 3 and going for 3.5k today. So far the tendon feels fine, but it does still swell a bit right after the walk. Still, I'm hopeful I'll try an actual run sometime next week.
Holy shit, went mountain biking yesterday and I forgot how tough it was, I was a little bit too ambitious and got on a really steep track on the way up, it was a real struggle to get to the top and the way down was not much easier, I fell at the start of the way down, luckily nothing serious but this morning I felt like I was 80 years old, left knee hurts (automatic pedals were not a good idea...), right wrist as well, scratches on my left side and arm... really feels like I took a beating. That was fun though, minus the falling part ^^.
On July 17 2017 18:41 Jetaap wrote: Holy shit, went mountain biking yesterday and I forgot how tough it was, I was a little bit too ambitious and got on a really steep track on the way up, it was a real struggle to get to the top and the way down was not much easier, I fell at the start of the way down, luckily nothing serious but this morning I felt like I was 80 years old, left knee hurts (automatic pedals were not a good idea...), right wrist as well, scratches on my left side and arm... really feels like I took a beating. That was fun though, minus the falling part ^^.
Haha you're almost as bad as me at going down technical stuff on the MTB. I'm HORRIBLE when it comes to rocky/super steep stuff on a MTB. Smooth and flowly single track, or modest roots aren't so bad...but start throwing in rock gardens or nasty root layouts and other obstacles and I go from like maybe top 1/3 on strava stuff to like the bottom 10% or worse.
And yea, climbing 10% on a MTB is challenging to begin with, and I'm sure it only gets a ton worse when it gets really technical. Need to be super good at picking up the front and back end to get over obstacles when you have to go that slow.
Guys that can just casual ride stuff like this (20%, all the dropoffs between boulders are like 1-2 feet or more in height) are just nuts (10:34)
And then here is someone with mad skillz going up, note around 30 second mark gives you a pretty clear look at what it's like going down...only the boulders are actually even bigger due to camera foreshortening.
On July 17 2017 18:41 Jetaap wrote: Holy shit, went mountain biking yesterday and I forgot how tough it was, I was a little bit too ambitious and got on a really steep track on the way up, it was a real struggle to get to the top and the way down was not much easier, I fell at the start of the way down, luckily nothing serious but this morning I felt like I was 80 years old, left knee hurts (automatic pedals were not a good idea...), right wrist as well, scratches on my left side and arm... really feels like I took a beating. That was fun though, minus the falling part ^^.
Haha you're almost as bad as me at going down technical stuff on the MTB. I'm HORRIBLE when it comes to rocky/super steep stuff on a MTB. Smooth and flowly single track, or modest roots aren't so bad...but start throwing in rock gardens or nasty root layouts and other obstacles and I go from like maybe top 1/3 on strava stuff to like the bottom 10% or worse.
And yea, climbing 10% on a MTB is challenging to begin with, and I'm sure it only gets a ton worse when it gets really technical. Need to be super good at picking up the front and back end to get over obstacles when you have to go that slow.
Guys that can just casual ride stuff like this (20%, all the dropoffs between boulders are like 1-2 feet or more in height) are just nuts (10:34) https://youtu.be/_FbzRBJn_Vs?t=634
And then here is someone with mad skillz going up, note around 30 second mark gives you a pretty clear look at what it's like going down...only the boulders are actually even bigger due to camera foreshortening. www.youtube.com/watch?v=7RQgXZYWNXs
Nice videos, from experience it looks way steeper in real life than in videos so these guys are beasty ... My biggest issue when climbing on the MTB is that I have no technique so the only way I stay on the bike is by going fast... and I'm not strong enough to do it this way. I find it insane how some people manage to go super slow up hill on rough terrain and maintain equilibrium..
edit: video of the track looks way easier on video, with good riders and DH bikes ^^
The situation is mysterious. After three false starts, I *think* I'm on the path back to running. But I'll know for sure in the next few weeks.
I was off in Spain for the last two weeks (where I turned 30; I'm old now everyone). Got in about 10k of walking a day which the tendon seemed to tolerate. Now back in North America where I can do more intensive rehab and, thank God, cycle again.
My physio has got me started on brisk walks post-cycling. The idea is to add 500m per walk and start from 2.5k until we get to 5k. I'm up to 3 and going for 3.5k today. So far the tendon feels fine, but it does still swell a bit right after the walk. Still, I'm hopeful I'll try an actual run sometime next week.
Didn't go well. Wasn't feeling it after 4-5 miles and turned it down to more of a training pace. Finished 7th overall with a 1:17 and 2nd in age group, won a bottle of wine.
If I can run a 5k at approximately 6.6 mi/hr, what is a good pace for lunchtime 30 minute jogs? I think I tend to run too fast 100% of my runs. How do you determine how much slower is appropriate for casual runs?
On July 20 2017 11:11 micronesia wrote: If I can run a 5k at approximately 6.6 mi/hr, what is a good pace for lunchtime 30 minute jogs? I think I tend to run too fast 100% of my runs. How do you determine how much slower is appropriate for casual runs?
Depends on the goals and overall training, especially how often you are running.
But, if you're goal is just a general endurance easy pace, I'd say somewhere around 11:00-12:30 pace would be about right, in percentage terms you're be looking around 60-80% of 5k race pace. Given approximately 30 minutes for a 5k, perhaps more towards 65-85% in that case.
If those lunchtime jogs are the sole training you do, and you're looking to get faster as opposed to just running for "general health", then I'd say you wouldn't want to be using that pace very often. You won't build fitness running like that unless you're quite new, or in the middle of increasing mileage/adapting to running.
If, on the other hand, those lunchtime jogs are supplemental to other hard session during the week, then I'd err on the easier side of that range.
Well assuming I do three lunchtime jogs a week for 30 minutes and that's all I do, how fast should I run relative to race pace? Maybe two days of 80% and one day of 95% or something like that? From the speed I quoted you should get a decent idea of how bad I am at running lol
On July 20 2017 11:43 micronesia wrote: Well assuming I do three lunchtime jogs a week for 30 minutes and that's all I do, how fast should I run relative to race pace? Maybe two days of 80% and one day of 95% or something like that? From the speed I quoted you should get a decent idea of how bad I am at running lol
It would depend a little on your goals, but assuming a tight 30 minute schedule I'd do something like this:
Day 1) - 5 min WU nice and easy, slower than 12:00 pace, 3x3 min ON, 1 min OFF (ON @ approx 8:30-8:45 pace, OFF @ slow shuffle/walk). Remaining time easy running around 12:00 pace +/-. Workout progresses first by rep number until you get to about 6x3, then from there you could go to 6x4, and then from there start work on bringing the pace down a little each time.
Day 2) - Steady, high aerobic run. Ease into the run, but look for appox 25' at about 90-95% (approx 10:40 pace). You could also alternate this 3x5' at 5k pace or a smidge over, so around 9:10-9:30 pace. Progress this a few minutes at a time until you have a steady 25' at 9:15 pace or so.
Day 3) - VO2 work. I'd start with like 3x3' at around 8:15 pace (how hard this feels depends a little on anaerobic capacity, so if this pace is not too bad for 3' reps, you could work down to 8:00 or maybe even 7:45 if you're an anerobic monster). This workout could then go to 4x3', 5x3', 6x3'; then move to 4' reps until you get to 5x4'. At that point, further progression would be intensive, meaning increasing the pace.
The one thing you'd want to watch is sometimes running is a little more susceptible to too much intensity, so if you're feeling a little tight/sensitive somewhere then it's certainly okay to change the next session to a nice, easy recovery jog at 12:30+ pace.
It's worth noting there are two main ideas here, almost competing ones, but not quite.
- Extensive first, then intensive. What this means if that you start with a small volume of work and gradually build to more; the goal is NOT to increase the intensity (pace) but the duration. After you've reached the desired duration of work, then you can build intensively, by working on gradually progressing the intensity (pace) of the workouts. I think this is especially important in running where it's so much easier to get injured
- Always be pushing. Quite simple, there has to be progression. You either need to be extending the workouts, or increasing the intensity from session to session. Repeating sessions has a fairly limited effect. If you completed a workout you know your body can handle it, and doing the same workout again has much less of a stimulus for improvement; you're body is already adapted to that challenge. A critical note here is that this MUST be measured. You can absolutely push too hard, too fast. Workouts should increase in volume/intensity, but at a reasonable rate. You might do your first 3x3' session and think "that wasn't bad, I could do way more. Probably like 6x3'"...and you might well be right. That doesn't mean you would be wise to do so.
On July 20 2017 12:17 micronesia wrote: For perspective, I do my workouts on a treadmill which may somewhat limit the variety of what I can do.
Honestly, for workouts like these that makes it super easy. Only thing treadmills aren't good for in my opinion are true sprint/alactic workouts (400m pace or faster), or anything where you are really changing pace all the time. E.g. straights and turns (sprint straights, jog turns) on a treadmill is utterly obnoxious.
For anything steady, treadmill is about as easy and simple as it gets.
On July 17 2017 18:41 Jetaap wrote: Holy shit, went mountain biking yesterday and I forgot how tough it was, I was a little bit too ambitious and got on a really steep track on the way up, it was a real struggle to get to the top and the way down was not much easier, I fell at the start of the way down, luckily nothing serious but this morning I felt like I was 80 years old, left knee hurts (automatic pedals were not a good idea...), right wrist as well, scratches on my left side and arm... really feels like I took a beating. That was fun though, minus the falling part ^^.
Haha you're almost as bad as me at going down technical stuff on the MTB. I'm HORRIBLE when it comes to rocky/super steep stuff on a MTB. Smooth and flowly single track, or modest roots aren't so bad...but start throwing in rock gardens or nasty root layouts and other obstacles and I go from like maybe top 1/3 on strava stuff to like the bottom 10% or worse.
And yea, climbing 10% on a MTB is challenging to begin with, and I'm sure it only gets a ton worse when it gets really technical. Need to be super good at picking up the front and back end to get over obstacles when you have to go that slow.
Guys that can just casual ride stuff like this (20%, all the dropoffs between boulders are like 1-2 feet or more in height) are just nuts (10:34) https://youtu.be/_FbzRBJn_Vs?t=634
And then here is someone with mad skillz going up, note around 30 second mark gives you a pretty clear look at what it's like going down...only the boulders are actually even bigger due to camera foreshortening. www.youtube.com/watch?v=7RQgXZYWNXs
Nice videos, from experience it looks way steeper in real life than in videos so these guys are beasty ... My biggest issue when climbing on the MTB is that I have no technique so the only way I stay on the bike is by going fast... and I'm not strong enough to do it this way. I find it insane how some people manage to go super slow up hill on rough terrain and maintain equilibrium..
The trail itself looks super fun, though of course head mounted GP's are about as bad as it gets for making rocks look tiny. It looks like it has a few short rock garden sections, but much of the trail is somewhat flowly singletrack...that's about as nice as it gets in my book!
The situation is mysterious. After three false starts, I *think* I'm on the path back to running. But I'll know for sure in the next few weeks.
I was off in Spain for the last two weeks (where I turned 30; I'm old now everyone). Got in about 10k of walking a day which the tendon seemed to tolerate. Now back in North America where I can do more intensive rehab and, thank God, cycle again.
My physio has got me started on brisk walks post-cycling. The idea is to add 500m per walk and start from 2.5k until we get to 5k. I'm up to 3 and going for 3.5k today. So far the tendon feels fine, but it does still swell a bit right after the walk. Still, I'm hopeful I'll try an actual run sometime next week.
Gah, sorry, I've shamefully fallen out of the habit of looking at this thread. I'm still slowly easing back--managed a 10k total run yesterday. I'm seeing my go-to physio on Monday and hoping he can give me the final tweaks needed to get my feet back under me. It's amazing what intramuscular stimulation (aka IMS, aka shut up and stick some needles in me) can do.
Recovery has definitely been complicated by my crazy vagabond lifestyle these days. I'm essentially moving to a new city every month, which makes continuity of care a challenge. I've been hitting up my physio in my hometown whenever I'm back for a visit, but that's like every two months tops. This has taken way, way longer than I expected, but I've had some fun riding my bike in the interim.
The situation is mysterious. After three false starts, I *think* I'm on the path back to running. But I'll know for sure in the next few weeks.
I was off in Spain for the last two weeks (where I turned 30; I'm old now everyone). Got in about 10k of walking a day which the tendon seemed to tolerate. Now back in North America where I can do more intensive rehab and, thank God, cycle again.
My physio has got me started on brisk walks post-cycling. The idea is to add 500m per walk and start from 2.5k until we get to 5k. I'm up to 3 and going for 3.5k today. So far the tendon feels fine, but it does still swell a bit right after the walk. Still, I'm hopeful I'll try an actual run sometime next week.
Didn't go well. Wasn't feeling it after 4-5 miles and turned it down to more of a training pace. Finished 7th overall with a 1:17 and 2nd in age group, won a bottle of wine.
Ah man, that's a bummer. But at least you won something! Do you have any sense of what went wrong? What was the weather like?
On July 20 2017 11:43 micronesia wrote: Well assuming I do three lunchtime jogs a week for 30 minutes and that's all I do, how fast should I run relative to race pace? Maybe two days of 80% and one day of 95% or something like that? From the speed I quoted you should get a decent idea of how bad I am at running lol
It would depend a little on your goals, but assuming a tight 30 minute schedule I'd do something like this:
Day 1) - 5 min WU nice and easy, slower than 12:00 pace
5 minutes jogging at slower than five miles per hour (I find slower than five a bit difficult to be honest, but five is fine).
3x3 min ON, 1 min OFF (ON @ approx 8:30-8:45 pace, OFF @ slow shuffle/walk).
Jog for three minutes at 7 mph (slightly faster than racing pace), then jog at WU speed or walk. Repeat twice for a total of 12 minutes this phase, 17 including warmup.
Remaining time easy running around 12:00 pace +/-.
For the remaining ~13 minutes, jog at roughly 5 mph.
Workout progresses first by rep number until you get to about 6x3, then from there you could go to 6x4, and then from there start work on bringing the pace down a little each time.
As I improve, increasing the number of reps gradually from three to six. Later, increase the "ON" time to 4 minutes. This puts me a bit over my budgeted time so perhaps I should work up to 6x3 and then jump to 5x4 (5 minutes WM, 25 minutes interval phase).
Day 2) - Steady, high aerobic run. Ease into the run, but look for appox 25' at about 90-95% (approx 10:40 pace).
Ease up from very easy jog for five minutes, then do 25 minutes at about 5.6 miles per hour.
You could also alternate this 3x5' at 5k pace or a smidge over, so around 9:10-9:30 pace. Progress this a few minutes at a time until you have a steady 25' at 9:15 pace or so.
I actually much prefer a steady run and will plan on that for 'day 2' for now.
Day 3) - VO2 work. I'd start with like 3x3' at around 8:15 pace (how hard this feels depends a little on anaerobic capacity, so if this pace is not too bad for 3' reps, you could work down to 8:00 or maybe even 7:45 if you're an anerobic monster).
I'm assuming 3x3' means three sets of 3 minutes on, 1 minute off like on day 1. For this day, 'on' is about 7.3 mph. I'm assuming any unused time afterwards can once again be a slow job akin to the warmup (~5mph). If I feel like I can easily push further, I can try the 'on' portion as fast as 7.7 mph.
This workout could then go to 4x3', 5x3', 6x3'; then move to 4' reps until you get to 5x4'. At that point, further progression would be intensive, meaning increasing the pace.
Increase the reps and then length of 'on' periods same as day 1 (basically this is day 1 on steroids but with the same format).
The one thing you'd want to watch is sometimes running is a little more susceptible to too much intensity, so if you're feeling a little tight/sensitive somewhere then it's certainly okay to change the next session to a nice, easy recovery jog at 12:30+ pace.
Feel free to back out of a planned day at any time and just treat it like an easy day 2. Doing intervals on the treadmill is a bit annoying because I like to just listen to music and zone out for 30 minutes (other than ensuring my form is correct), but at least I have the benefit of knowing I'm running at the correct speed all the time!
Haha yep Micronesia, you got that just fine it would seem!
Only point to clarify is this:
If I feel like I can easily push further, I can try the 'on' portion as fast as 7.7 mph.
Your understanding here is fine. Just wanted to make clear that there is a little bit of a pace range here because you're going above threshold, which brings in a component of FRC (anaerobic capacity). Some people can do more work anaerobically than others depending on your abilities. This is why you could have two people that both run a 10km race in 31:00, but person A runs a mile in 4:30 and person B runs a mile in 4:10.
If you're a person with more anaerobic capacity you'll be able to run these a little faster than someone who doesn't have as much. Also, when it comes to difficulty, these should be decent...but not absolutely brutal. If you're really gritting to get through the first one, its definitely too hard. First rep or two should feel like your breathing deep and putting in effort, but not really digging or fighting for it. The last 1:30 of the last interval or two should be a little challenging.
I am getting interested in cycling again. I used to cycle a lot previously (both as transport and as exercise) but then life happened and I lost interest in it. But now things has changed again and I am interested in resuming cycling. I need to send my bicycle to service though (Needs to double check the gears and handbreak, as well as replace the tires with slightly wider ones if possible and get a new helmet), but once that is done I should be all good to go.
My goal initially is to finish a ~32km biking route that I've done before. It is a very beautiful route that mixes both flat and sloped roads (but nothing too steep), as well as major roads for my municipality and cycle/walking paths.
The situation is mysterious. After three false starts, I *think* I'm on the path back to running. But I'll know for sure in the next few weeks.
I was off in Spain for the last two weeks (where I turned 30; I'm old now everyone). Got in about 10k of walking a day which the tendon seemed to tolerate. Now back in North America where I can do more intensive rehab and, thank God, cycle again.
My physio has got me started on brisk walks post-cycling. The idea is to add 500m per walk and start from 2.5k until we get to 5k. I'm up to 3 and going for 3.5k today. So far the tendon feels fine, but it does still swell a bit right after the walk. Still, I'm hopeful I'll try an actual run sometime next week.
Didn't go well. Wasn't feeling it after 4-5 miles and turned it down to more of a training pace. Finished 7th overall with a 1:17 and 2nd in age group, won a bottle of wine.
Ah man, that's a bummer. But at least you won something! Do you have any sense of what went wrong? What was the weather like?
It was pretty warm and the race started with a pretty significant hill. I tried to do some training in the heat to prepare for it but I didn't fully adapt, plus even if you're adapted it can still slow you down. But the main problem was that my training kind of went sideways*. In the middle of my plan, I got worried that I was overtraining so I backed off the plan, and then I lost motivation and started skipping days, mileage dropped, and I gained some weight. On race day I just didn't feel great. I was more motivated to start training again than I was motivated for the race, and when the race wasn't going well, the idea of taking it like a training run was too appealing.
A few days later I remember that I needed a sub-1:12 to get seeded for my next race and I was pretty frustrated that I forgot all about that. The elites and the sub-elites start before everyone else, so if I'm there trying to run sub-70 and I'm not seeded, it'll be a solo effort. So now I've signed up for a race in October that I'm just gonna do a little mini-taper for and mostly train through, and hopefully have a good day and get sub-1:12 without working too hard. Gotta slowly shed some pounds and keep my mileage up and I should be fine.
**This was really stupid too. I hadn't done track workouts in forever but I drove out to one to do some 1200's and 1000's. I had just run a race (not full effort, but still taxing -- 1:12:41) and I don't think I was fully recovered but I should have been able to have a decent workout. Anyway, my times were all really slow, like unexpectedly slow, and I thought I had really overdone it and needed a recovery week. Turns out the track was 432m, not 400m. I thought I was doing 1k's in something like 3:20. But a 3:20 1080m is a 3:05 1000m. So I was working hard and actually hitting good times, but I thought I was hitting unacceptable times. I didn't find this out for a while, and I still ended up getting demotivated/depressed even after finding out. All and all, just a weird and messy training cycle. Still, I gained fitness I can build on.
some questions - how often do you run in a week and what do your trainings look like - whats your mileage - when did you start running - how fast did you progress?
i dunno in my mind you were a sc player and then you are running 21k and aiming at sub70. not a lot of people have the motivation and drive to train to that point.
I am lucky genetically I guess. I ran in high school at a pretty low mileage, like 25-35 mpw, and got recruited to a D1 school. But then at college I could not handle the training and quit in my first year. I didn't run for about 10 years and then I started doing some races and jogging 20-30 mpw to get ready for them, and ran 1:24 half marathon like that. And then I did two races close together, so the training built on from the training for the previous race, and I ran 1:22 in January 2016. From there I decided to train more and to not take months off between races. I went up to 50 mpw, but still almost all just jogging, and I ran a 1:16 in May 2016. Then I had some injuries and did long stretches of no running and low mileage, and finally built back up to 30 mpw and ran a 1:18 in November 2016. Between that race and January 2017, I did 40 mpw and did several workouts (finally not just jogging!). That's when I ran 1:12. So then I planned to build mileage more and do a real training plan but it didn't go so well. I'm a lot more fit, but haven't run a good race to improve my best time yet. Now it's my second chance at having a good training cycle.
I think if a good coach was in control of me, I'd have progressed a lot faster (avoided injuries, lost weight, accumulated more mileage and quality workouts). But I'm learning these lessons myself and I think I have a good shot of having a really productive second half of 2017.
not sure if this video got posted on not, but it is quite interesting. Has to do with Marathon runners and how it may be possible for them to reach a sub 2 hour marathon race. www.youtube.com
Hey guys, so this thread has been more about running recently (thanks to Nony and his impressive achievements), but I had a cycling question, particularly about electric bicycles.
So in Canada we have absurd laws about e-bikes being limited to 500W motors and maximum speed of 32km/h on level ground. Now of particular insanity is the 32km/h on level ground. I can time trial 15km at 45km/h without significant issue, so imposing that kind of limitation is insane.
The Nissan Leaf uses lithium batteries with energy storage of 128Wh/kg, so I'd be looking for a bicycle with around 1000Wh, or a 8kg(18lb) battery. That would give a respectable power output of 250W (fairly quick pace) for 4 hours, at least in the best case scenario... Without accounting for my pedalling itself. According to the costs of the Nissan Leaf prices, this battery should cost $500.
Then as for the motor, I'd like something 500-750W (I don't believe law enforcement are educated enough to differentiate), with an overall bicycle weight of 40-50lbs. I've worked with 1000-4000rpm 75VDC electric servo motors with 250-500W in the past with torque control, as well as position and velocity control (costing $250-$400 USD each) and don't believe this implementation should be difficult. No reason why Shimano 105 or Ultegra should not be able to handle these forces.
I'm really struggling to find a road bike these sorts of specifications. In theory, I don't see the difficulty of adding 18 pounds of lithium ion batteries, adding a 6-8lb 500-750W motor, with some 30:1 gear ratio, some arduino torque controller, and an input dial in the form of a speed shifter operating at different wattages or torques.
I'd like to use it as a tool to go quicker in traffic, and get around the city quicker.
Does anyone have any experience with how I could build this, or any ebike models that offer what I'm looking for? $5000 is the type of budget I'm looking at. Thanks in advance.
On July 26 2017 15:00 FiWiFaKi wrote: Hey guys, so this thread has been more about running recently (thanks to Nony and his impressive achievements), but I had a cycling question, particularly about electric bicycles.
So in Canada we have absurd laws about e-bikes being limited to 500W motors and maximum speed of 32km/h on level ground. Now of particular insanity is the 32km/h on level ground. I can time trial 15km at 45km/h without significant issue, so imposing that kind of limitation is insane.
The Nissan Leaf uses lithium batteries with energy storage of 128Wh/kg, so I'd be looking for a bicycle with around 1000Wh, or a 8kg(18lb) battery. That would give a respectable power output of 250W (fairly quick pace) for 4 hours, at least in the best case scenario... Without accounting for my pedalling itself. According to the costs of the Nissan Leaf prices, this battery should cost $500.
Then as for the motor, I'd like something 500-750W (I don't believe law enforcement are educated enough to differentiate), with an overall bicycle weight of 40-50lbs. I've worked with 1000-4000rpm 75VDC electric servo motors with 250-500W in the past with torque control, as well as position and velocity control (costing $250-$400 USD each) and don't believe this implementation should be difficult. No reason why Shimano 105 or Ultegra should not be able to handle these forces.
I'm really struggling to find a road bike these sorts of specifications. In theory, I don't see the difficulty of adding 18 pounds of lithium ion batteries, adding a 6-8lb 500-750W motor, with some 30:1 gear ratio, some arduino torque controller, and an input dial in the form of a speed shifter operating at different wattages or torques.
I'd like to use it as a tool to go quicker in traffic, and get around the city quicker.
Does anyone have any experience with how I could build this, or any ebike models that offer what I'm looking for? $5000 is the type of budget I'm looking at. Thanks in advance.
I won't lie, I know nothing about ebikes whatsoever.
That said, I'm trying to wrap my brain around why you want this; especially with that budget. I mean you're telling me you can timetrial for quite some time at 45 km/hr which is very fast. That's like 350w+ kinda power unless you've got some godlike position on the TT bike. 45 km/hr is usually going to be respectable in P12 fields here in CO, and that's up at thin air where you go faster.
You can cruise around at 20-22mph all day long. Getting around most cities isn't going to be helped with a faster bike, cities it's usually you waiting in traffic and at lights. When it comes to going quicker in traffic, I also can't see where that helps. If it's a high speed road outside of the city the speed limit is for sure going to be 60kph+, and even an extra 500w + you going full TT intensity still isn't going to bring you up to car speeds. Then, in the city, speeds are much lower usually 50kph or less, at which point you can just draft the cars and move with traffic with little difficulty.
The big thing jumping out at me is...you've got 5k to spend and you're main concern is wanting to move around the city quicker and keep up with traffic. Why not just get an actual motorcycle at that point? Seems like a FAR better investment than some mutant of a road bike with 30lbs of batteries and a giant motor on it that's only going to get you an extra 15km/hr of speed over normal pedalling.
On July 26 2017 15:00 FiWiFaKi wrote: Hey guys, so this thread has been more about running recently (thanks to Nony and his impressive achievements), but I had a cycling question, particularly about electric bicycles.
So in Canada we have absurd laws about e-bikes being limited to 500W motors and maximum speed of 32km/h on level ground. Now of particular insanity is the 32km/h on level ground. I can time trial 15km at 45km/h without significant issue, so imposing that kind of limitation is insane.
The Nissan Leaf uses lithium batteries with energy storage of 128Wh/kg, so I'd be looking for a bicycle with around 1000Wh, or a 8kg(18lb) battery. That would give a respectable power output of 250W (fairly quick pace) for 4 hours, at least in the best case scenario... Without accounting for my pedalling itself. According to the costs of the Nissan Leaf prices, this battery should cost $500.
Then as for the motor, I'd like something 500-750W (I don't believe law enforcement are educated enough to differentiate), with an overall bicycle weight of 40-50lbs. I've worked with 1000-4000rpm 75VDC electric servo motors with 250-500W in the past with torque control, as well as position and velocity control (costing $250-$400 USD each) and don't believe this implementation should be difficult. No reason why Shimano 105 or Ultegra should not be able to handle these forces.
I'm really struggling to find a road bike these sorts of specifications. In theory, I don't see the difficulty of adding 18 pounds of lithium ion batteries, adding a 6-8lb 500-750W motor, with some 30:1 gear ratio, some arduino torque controller, and an input dial in the form of a speed shifter operating at different wattages or torques.
I'd like to use it as a tool to go quicker in traffic, and get around the city quicker.
Does anyone have any experience with how I could build this, or any ebike models that offer what I'm looking for? $5000 is the type of budget I'm looking at. Thanks in advance.
I won't lie, I know nothing about ebikes whatsoever.
That said, I'm trying to wrap my brain around why you want this; especially with that budget. I mean you're telling me you can timetrial for quite some time at 45 km/hr which is very fast. That's like 350w+ kinda power unless you've got some godlike position on the TT bike. 45 km/hr is usually going to be respectable in P12 fields here in CO, and that's up at thin air where you go faster.
You can cruise around at 20-22mph all day long. Getting around most cities isn't going to be helped with a faster bike, cities it's usually you waiting in traffic and at lights. When it comes to going quicker in traffic, I also can't see where that helps. If it's a high speed road outside of the city the speed limit is for sure going to be 60kph+, and even an extra 500w + you going full TT intensity still isn't going to bring you up to car speeds. Then, in the city, speeds are much lower usually 50kph or less, at which point you can just draft the cars and move with traffic with little difficulty.
The big thing jumping out at me is...you've got 5k to spend and you're main concern is wanting to move around the city quicker and keep up with traffic. Why not just get an actual motorcycle at that point? Seems like a FAR better investment than some mutant of a road bike with 30lbs of batteries and a giant motor on it that's only going to get you an extra 15km/hr of speed over normal pedalling.
I think you overestimate the size of the bicycle. If you could fit the batteries in the bottom post (by changing its profile, and then adding some 4"x4"x4" electric motor, a little gear system, and a controller), the higher end ebikes are very slick. When I was on a solar car engineering team, you'd be surprised how little the package we had and it'd cruise at 80-90km/hr was no problem, and the vehicle was much heavier.
As for my time trial speed it's probably closer to low 40s, I just maintain 45-47km/h on drop bars between lights which are every 2km for the full duration of getting to downtown on a big road. A more reasonable speed for estimating my not full out speed when getting between the city is 35km/h when moving, and about 30km/h overall.
I live in Calgary, it's an extremely spread out city, for example to my gf's house is a 38km bike ride, which usually takes 1:15. Now being able to add a consistent 250-400W cycling to my say 250W normal speed (idk, no power meter) would easily change my speed from 35km/h to 45km/h, and when down on the drop bars and pushing, easily sustaining 50km/h for long periods of time, and probably could achieve 60km/h at full 500-750W motor power, and my full gas for say 5km. Anyway, when focused on performance, I don't think an avarage speed of 30km/h to 40km/h would be unreasonable. With lights I think cars travelling around this city do around 55km/h, so it'd be neat to be on a bicycle and make my 75 minute trip only 60 minutes, mind you, with a car this would take around 40. So Id see the speed benefit as quite significant.
Then other advantages:
1) Neighborhood roads are 50km/h here, and practical roads to get around the city are 60km/h, where I spend most of my time. I avoid the few 100km/h highways, and in busy times I avoid the 80km/h large roads as well. I think for these 50-60km/h roads, safety would be greatly improved for me due to a much smaller speed difference I got hit by a car recently when cycling on the side of the road and fell badly, so this would help I think.
2) Comfort. When at a red light, I always have the need to get up to do some 800W acceleration, now I could sit. Also I sweat extremely easily. It'd be nice to be able to get to places where I don't require a shower at 100-150W power output on my end.
3) No insurance needed, and I can take the bike on bike paths around lakes, etc.
4) I like electric vehicles, and the thought of being able to be that quick in a vehicle with less than 1hp is very cool to me. And when I'm not using the motor, it's the difference between 190 lbs for me and the bike, versus like 215-220 lbs for the electric bike, so it's not that big of a deal. Not sure just how much it'd affect the handling, that's the only concern I'd have.
For sure a car is nice sometime, but to me it seems like a nice way to make a cycling hobby even more practical for transportation, so I can use it for 50% of my trips, rather than 20%.
So what's up with TL cycling? It's been really quiet on this thread .
I've had a pretty nice autumn season, I've changed my gear on the back and switched from 25 to 28 which makes it easier to keep a good rythm when it's steep; it has really helped me with dealing with the knee issues that are annoying me since a long time.. Thanks to that i was able to ride more in september, and i was able to do a couple of nice rides with my family. col de l'iseran (highest in the alps) https://www.strava.com/activities/1208878250 Col de la Madeleine" https://www.strava.com/activities/1210278951
Also did a nice traverse, took the train from home and came back crossing the vercors montains... great sceneries. Feels good to be able to ride for more than 50km . https://www.strava.com/activities/1219398851
a picture from my ride yesterday, i had some work to do but it was just too beautiful to stay home
What up fam? I'm feeling inspired and ready to get back to work. I've spent the last few months slowly testing my Achilles tendon out and it looks like I'm ready to roll.
Last eight weeks were a cycle of 90k-100-110k on repeat, all easy running except for some drills and strides and the odd light workout for funsies when I felt like it. This was an "acid test" my coach wanted me to pass before I started doing actual workouts and getting back to running fast. Rounded things out with a 24k jaunt yesterday and the tendon feels good.
So thunderbirds are go, basically. My comeback race is going to be the "Run for the Whales," which is a silly affair in Hawaii in February. I chose it for two reasons:
1) We'll be in Hawaii at that time and a race there seems like a better idea than a race in Canada in February. 2) It's the extremely weird distance of 11.5 miles, which I've never raced before. It's an automatic PB, which will be psychologically useful as I try to get back to where I was and eventually surpass it.
I hope y'all are doing well and chasing some great goals. I heard a rumour that L_Master had betrayed all that's good and true and started going to the weight room; hopefully that's not true.
Nony, how goes the quest for sub-70? Is that race on Strava the one you refer to on this page?
I had a long stretch of poor training after getting sick. It felt like I was never recovering so I kept taking it easy for so long. I averaged only 33 mpw for 7 weeks heading into the race I just did and I think I simply didn't have the aerobic fitness to run a PR. I went out too fast even though I was trying not to. 25 guys ended up running sub-70 at that race. I let the elites instantly gap me at the start, obviously, but there was also a huge pack of sub-elites I let gap me right away, and I still started out way too fast because all those guys were so fast!
I'm motivated again and physically feeling good. I've got another race in a month that I'll train through and try to run sub-72, and then I've got the CIM relay (13.5 mile segment) in early December, where I'd like to mostly train through as well and improve on whatever I run in November. If everything goes well between now and then, I'll probably secretly be hoping to go sub-70 pace at CIM, but it's okay if I'm not there yet. Or maybe start out a bit slower and ease into 70 pace and see if I can hold it for the rest of the run. I'll be looking to do another half in January and that's when I'll be ready to emotionally invest in getting sub-70.
Honestly I think at some point this year I had the fitness to do it because I had some stretches of pretty good training and good workouts. So I'm not that intimidated by it. I think 3 months of 55+ mpw and some solid workouts ought to do the trick. But improving from there will take some real consistency and hard work, at least relative to what I'm used to. I'm thinking I might make a 12k in May a big goal race so I can do some faster workouts, get used to running faster, and forget about the half for a while, and then make this October half I just did (San Jose Rock n Roll) a goal race next year.
I'm really going to emphasize consistency now. I've had to take some time off due to injury but just looking back over January 2016 to now, I could so easily be in a much better place if I'd taken advantage of all the time I was healthy and capable. It would not have even had to been very intense training, but just getting 60 mpw in each week would have been super helpful. So I want to make sure I keep the floor on my mileage / time spent on feet at a reasonable spot, as long as it's not a serious injury or illness that I really ought to be resting for.
On July 24 2017 04:08 WindWolf wrote: I am getting interested in cycling again. I used to cycle a lot previously (both as transport and as exercise) but then life happened and I lost interest in it. But now things has changed again and I am interested in resuming cycling. I need to send my bicycle to service though (Needs to double check the gears and handbreak, as well as replace the tires with slightly wider ones if possible and get a new helmet), but once that is done I should be all good to go.
My goal initially is to finish a ~32km biking route that I've done before. It is a very beautiful route that mixes both flat and sloped roads (but nothing too steep), as well as major roads for my municipality and cycle/walking paths.
32km shouldn't be bad at all especially if you have prior riding experience. What kind of bike do you ride?
I hope y'all are doing well and chasing some great goals. I heard a rumour that L_Master had betrayed all that's good and true and started going to the weight room; hopefully that's not true.
There....might be some truth to this
Of course, I'm not stopping training all together. Well, in so much as I can around working and a viscious university year.
Right now, I'm *hoping* to transition to doing some running for at least the next two months. If everything went perfect I might hit a few weeks of 40-low 50 mpw with a workout or two. Depends on if my body let's my build to that level that quick. Easing the achilles and calf back into are always a challenge.
Sitting at a cool 78kg right now, so that's got me dragging, 7:30 is a quickish pace for me right now, which is to say I'm not entirely sure I could break 20:00. I'm *hoping* (always a crapshoot with me) to control myself well enough to get back down to a leaner 67-70kg or so. Not sure I have any time goals in mind, optimistically I'd like to run around my PR, which is probably doable, as I set that at 68kg, coming off pure cycling with about 4 weeks of running.
I'm still pissed I didn't get to race last year; I was quite light (66kg) and hitting some excellent workouts. I was running comfortable 1200s off 1' rest at 5:30-5:40 pace, and doing tempo around 6 flat...so I really felt like I had a good chance to try and crack 17:00. Sadly, right after my best workout I tweaked my quad somehow and that was that.
I'm really going to emphasize consistency now. I've had to take some time off due to injury but just looking back over January 2016 to now, I could so easily be in a much better place if I'd taken advantage of all the time I was healthy and capable. It would not have even had to been very intense training, but just getting 60 mpw in each week would have been super helpful. So I want to make sure I keep the floor on my mileage / time spent on feet at a reasonable spot, as long as it's not a serious injury or illness that I really ought to be resting for.
It's insane how big of a deal consistency makes. Well, consistency combined with progression. I was literally stuck for a year and a half in cycling basically at the same level. I was riding 10-12 hours a week and doing some decent workouts, but I didn't have consistent structure and progression.
Made changes this spring and laid out a slightly more structured but much better designed plan for myself and literally made gains I didn't think were possible, to the extent that I really think I have the physical engine to be able to ride professionally if I could focus just on riding for a year or so to keep that consistency up.
Same thing in the weight room. I literally just made more progress in 12 weeks than I did in two years of lifting starting back at the end of HS in 08' and continuing through college, all by focusing on consistency and progression in workouts.
Always mixed emotions too. On the one hand it's quite something to realize that kind of progress after a long time of nothing, but on the other hand you can't help but think "Aghhhh....if only I had known this sooner!!"
On October 11 2017 11:23 NonY wrote: I had a long stretch of poor training after getting sick. It felt like I was never recovering so I kept taking it easy for so long. I averaged only 33 mpw for 7 weeks heading into the race I just did and I think I simply didn't have the aerobic fitness to run a PR. I went out too fast even though I was trying not to. 25 guys ended up running sub-70 at that race. I let the elites instantly gap me at the start, obviously, but there was also a huge pack of sub-elites I let gap me right away, and I still started out way too fast because all those guys were so fast!
That's a tough situation to be in. It's hard to hold back but at the same time you really don't want to run in no man's land all by yourself either...especially if conditions suck.
On October 11 2017 11:23 NonY wrote: I'm motivated again and physically feeling good. I've got another race in a month that I'll train through and try to run sub-72, and then I've got the CIM relay (13.5 mile segment) in early December, where I'd like to mostly train through as well and improve on whatever I run in November. If everything goes well between now and then, I'll probably secretly be hoping to go sub-70 pace at CIM, but it's okay if I'm not there yet. Or maybe start out a bit slower and ease into 70 pace and see if I can hold it for the rest of the run. I'll be looking to do another half in January and that's when I'll be ready to emotionally invest in getting sub-70.
Honestly I think at some point this year I had the fitness to do it because I had some stretches of pretty good training and good workouts. So I'm not that intimidated by it. I think 3 months of 55+ mpw and some solid workouts ought to do the trick. But improving from there will take some real consistency and hard work, at least relative to what I'm used to. I'm thinking I might make a 12k in May a big goal race so I can do some faster workouts, get used to running faster, and forget about the half for a while, and then make this October half I just did (San Jose Rock n Roll) a goal race next year.
Sounds like you've got a good mid/long term sorta plan laid out. Hoping the training goes well and you can smash it!
On October 09 2017 02:29 Jetaap wrote: So what's up with TL cycling? It's been really quiet on this thread .
I've had a pretty nice autumn season, I've changed my gear on the back and switched from 25 to 28 which makes it easier to keep a good rythm when it's steep; it has really helped me with dealing with the knee issues that are annoying me since a long time.. Thanks to that i was able to ride more in september, and i was able to do a couple of nice rides with my family. col de l'iseran (highest in the alps) https://www.strava.com/activities/1208878250 Col de la Madeleine" https://www.strava.com/activities/1210278951
Also did a nice traverse, took the train from home and came back crossing the vercors montains... great sceneries. Feels good to be able to ride for more than 50km . https://www.strava.com/activities/1219398851
a picture from my ride yesterday, i had some work to do but it was just too beautiful to stay home
Looks like you've been having some fun! 28 is amazing too have, especially if you like a higher cadence or climb really steep shit. I only wish I had time to ride more right now.
On October 10 2017 06:09 Bonham wrote: What up fam? I'm feeling inspired and ready to get back to work. I've spent the last few months slowly testing my Achilles tendon out and it looks like I'm ready to roll.
Last eight weeks were a cycle of 90k-100-110k on repeat, all easy running except for some drills and strides and the odd light workout for funsies when I felt like it. This was an "acid test" my coach wanted me to pass before I started doing actual workouts and getting back to running fast. Rounded things out with a 24k jaunt yesterday and the tendon feels good.
So thunderbirds are go, basically. My comeback race is going to be the "Run for the Whales," which is a silly affair in Hawaii in February. I chose it for two reasons:
1) We'll be in Hawaii at that time and a race there seems like a better idea than a race in Canada in February. 2) It's the extremely weird distance of 11.5 miles, which I've never raced before. It's an automatic PB, which will be psychologically useful as I try to get back to where I was and eventually surpass it.
Seriously, this makes me so happy. I'm excited every time I go on strava and see that you've gotten in another solid run. Battling back from injury, especially one that lasts that long is about as shitty as it gets for a runner. You start to doubt yourself, feel off, and even wonder if you're every going to be able to run and train again.
Hope it holds up and looking forward to watching you round into previous Bonham shape.
L_Master I've been doing the training plan you recommended and have not had any problems with it. However, I think I have developed runner's knee in my right knee. I'm switching to cycling for cardio for now and am scheduled to meet with a physical therapist.... probably just need to do some leg day at the gym and I'll be good.
I don't think strength training helps much with running and cycling, having been at both extremes myself.
Your peak and 5s sprint might have been relatively poor before, but that's probably because you didn't practice 1-5 second sprints where you expend all of your energy, most people don't anyway, at best they give their full effort up some 50-100m elevation gain mini climbs, and that's a pretty moderate/long distance event at the verge of being an aerobic exercise.
If you want to be good at running, run, if you want to be good at cycling, cycle. Sure, by squatting you'll recruit similar muscles to what you use to kick off a pedal, but they wont translate perfectly, so you're gaining extra weight that you don't need, and getting tired building muscles that don't contribute to cycling.
Also a few of the cyclists I know have nutrition that isn't very compatible with gaining much muscle. They think they need to eat very little because they always want to be at the lowest weight, and then they aren't able to get stronger, because well, in professional cycling you do trade off some muscle size which would make your cycling more efficient (higher power output, assuming VO2 max constant, meaning higher power output per / oxygen molecule), for being lighter which lets you climb and accelerate better.
I think all cyclists will find if they keep up their current routine, but gain 10-20lbs simply by eating more, they'll increase their power output atleast 5%.
To be clear, in my case, I was referring to hitting the gym to prevent runner's knee. I see the physical therapist tomorrow though so we'll see what rehab is in order.
I did a practice fitness test on an exercise bike today and, at 175 pounds, I burned 149 Calories in the 12 minute block... not sure how good that is because you need a special calculator to convert it lol
On October 31 2017 09:40 micronesia wrote: To be clear, in my case, I was referring to hitting the gym to prevent runner's knee. I see the physical therapist tomorrow though so we'll see what rehab is in order.
I did a practice fitness test on an exercise bike today and, at 175 pounds, I burned 149 Calories in the 12 minute block... not sure how good that is because you need a special calculator to convert it lol
I don't think it'll be of much help, the stabilizing muscle of your knee should be perfectly straightened by running.
I think it's a bio-mechanics issue first and foremost, something off with geometry, worn cartilage, lack of stability in the foot that causes sudden deviation in your knee joints, etc.
My girlfriend also has bad knees (playing squash and doing squats very frequently brought the problem out in her). My approach here would be to accept it, and work around it by really slowly building up intensity to give your tendons, ligaments, and muscle as much time as possible to adjust, run with an extra thick sole to absorb that impact from running, and wear a knee wrap.
I don't know your physical therapist of course, but what I do know is what people want to hear. They want to be told that something in their body needs to be strengthened, or just have something they can fix naturally. So if he advises you with something like doing quadriceps strength exercises, don't go back to him. Unless you have some major issue like a severe nutrient inefficiency, these types of issues require intervention. Athletes get surgery for almost every little issue, it's because they knows regardless of how they try to compensate for it, it becomes a liability and hindrance.
Anyway, the reason why I have such a strong opinions on this because I've been misled in the past about this stuff, and just thought I'd share what I know. Many things make me very angry in medicine, but there's little worse than doctors giving advice to patients about what kind of strength exercises they should do, you'll get better results in youtube comments. They learn next to nothing about them in med school, and the only reason they say it is because it makes people happy that they have something to do to improve their situation. Little do they know that universal healthcare doesn't find muscular issues serious enough to be worth the time and money.
I don't have much experience with physical therapists, but I know several doctors and chiropractors, and I also know several people with physical issues quite closely. There's just many conflicts of interests here, and the advice can be bad... Hopefully your guy is down to earth and someone you can really trust, best of luck!
During strenuous exercise, we're about 25% efficient. So heavy exercise, is about 13 calories / minute, or convert to watts, 900W of heat dissipated, and of that around 225W of mechanical motion.
149 calories in 12 minutes is 12.42 calories per minute, so it would suggest you were working quite hard. I think a 135lb person and 185lb person will burn similar calories on an exercise bike at constant power output (not at constant speed though). There's too many factors though to read anything meaningful, since the +/- error is like 50% not knowing things like how the machine measures/calculates power, your bodies efficiency, your body composition, inertia of your legs/length of crank arms, etc.
On October 31 2017 09:40 micronesia wrote: To be clear, in my case, I was referring to hitting the gym to prevent runner's knee. I see the physical therapist tomorrow though so we'll see what rehab is in order.
I did a practice fitness test on an exercise bike today and, at 175 pounds, I burned 149 Calories in the 12 minute block... not sure how good that is because you need a special calculator to convert it lol
I don't think it'll be of much help, the stabilizing muscle of your knee should be perfectly straightened by running.
I think it's a bio-mechanics issue first and foremost, something off with geometry, worn cartilage, lack of stability in the foot that causes sudden deviation in your knee joints, etc.
My girlfriend also has bad knees (playing squash and doing squats very frequently brought the problem out in her). My approach here would be to accept it, and work around it by really slowly building up intensity to give your tendons, ligaments, and muscle as much time as possible to adjust, run with an extra thick sole to absorb that impact from running, and wear a knee wrap.
I don't know your physical therapist of course, but what I do know is what people want to hear. They want to be told that something in their body needs to be strengthened, or just have something they can fix naturally. So if he advises you with something like doing quadriceps strength exercises, don't go back to him. Unless you have some major issue like a severe nutrient inefficiency, these types of issues require intervention. Athletes get surgery for almost every little issue, it's because they knows regardless of how they try to compensate for it, it becomes a liability and hindrance.
Anyway, the reason why I have such a strong opinions on this because I've been misled in the past about this stuff, and just thought I'd share what I know. Many things make me very angry in medicine, but there's little worse than doctors giving advice to patients about what kind of strength exercises they should do, you'll get better results in youtube comments. They learn next to nothing about them in med school, and the only reason they say it is because it makes people happy that they have something to do to improve their situation. Little do they know that universal healthcare doesn't find muscular issues serious enough to be worth the time and money.
I don't have much experience with physical therapists, but I know several doctors and chiropractors, and I also know several people with physical issues quite closely. There's just many conflicts of interests here, and the advice can be bad... Hopefully your guy is down to earth and someone you can really trust, best of luck!
A few things to keep in mind (most of which you had no way of knowing):
I have had a problem with my left hip recently as well, where running seemed to make it worse. A physical therapist (at a different location) determined that there were imbalances due to the glutes and other muscles being underdeveloped. The solution was to isolate and strengthen the glutes, which has helped.
As a result of the hip problem, I went, twice, to a running clinic where they instrument your running, videotape it, and carefully review it with you. At the second visit, my running and shoes were both considered to be good, so it's unlikely my running form is poor and causing the problem.
From the research I've done, there are several different possible causes of runner's knee, and mine is potentially different than others you are aware of.
I have been very slowly building up my running for months (using L_master's program actually). At no point have I pushed myself too hard.
I am already using light stability shoes based on the evaluation at the running clinic
"They want to be told that something in their body needs to be strengthened, or just have something they can fix naturally. So if he advises you with something like doing quadriceps strength exercises, don't go back to him." This doesn't really explain why strengthening exercises are necessarily the wrong response. Some of the literature I've reviewed on this topic have said the problem can (but not necessarily) be caused by weak quads, which is very plausible considering I've done zero lower body strengthening exercises in a long time (I should start doing those either way to be honest).
I am going to see (for the first time) the physical therapist who visits the clinic where I work once a week ((s)he is from Quantico). If that doesn't work out for whatever reason, it's possible for me to see someone else but a huge pain in the ass in that I need to take off like half a day of work (limited to military office hours) so I'm hoping to avoid that.
I will keep you apprised of what I'm working on after my appointment, if you wish.
If you are running, you quadriceps are getting fatigued to the point they need to be to get stronger and keep up with your running intensity was my argument. If there's a bio-mechanical problem, then it is true that potentially spending 50% of your time strengthening your quads and then the other 50% running (the reason why you strengthened your quads) is possible. The issue that you run into is prior to your strengthening exercises, your body was at equilibrium with muscle gain/muscle loss. So the moment you stop these strengthening exercises your body will go back to where it was. At that point finding an artificial aid makes more sense in my opinion.
My shoulder got better when I was doing exercises with resistance bands, but after I stopped (because spending 1 hour a week for this, no thanks), it got back to where it was. And now if I try to lift an unliftable object explosively with all my might, I will tear my shoulder and have pain in it for at least a week.
If I could put it on a 10 point scale, and say that once the difference between running is 3 or more, you'll have knee pain. Let's say at first your running is a 6 and your knee is a 3. You do this strengthening exercise, and now it allows you to push harder, so your running becomes an 8 and your knee becomes a 6 due to this. Now you stop doing this exercise, and your running stays at 8, but your knee goes back to 4 (a little higher since it has more stresses and development due to running more). But now this difference is bigger than it was before, and you'll have more pain, which will either make your injury worse, or will just bring you down to where you were before.
I'll make sure to have a discussion about what the plan is for AFTER the knee pain goes away, and not just focus on the quick fix, which I think is a fair point.
You do seem like a practical, methodical and careful person (the best type of people to learn from), I'm curious what you'll come up with eventually, I can only imagine it's demoralizing to go through.
you guys who run 30-50mpw, how do you do it? and how long it took for you to get to that mileage i checked back my logs and i think the week i ran the most was 32km which is only 20 miles lol
On December 04 2017 23:18 sekishusai wrote: you guys who run 30-50mpw, how do you do it? and how long it took for you to get to that mileage i checked back my logs and i think the week i ran the most was 32km which is only 20 miles lol
The classic rule of thumb is to increase mileage by 10 percent per week. Going from 20 mpw to 30 would look like this:
Always, always, always listen to your body. If something feels painful or weird and gets worse with use, play it safe. Hoping it will go away on its own is a fool's injury prevention strategy.
Keep in mind that more shorter runs is easier on your body than fewer longer runs. That is, if you're running 30 miles a week, making your long run 20 miles is probably not a great idea.
Give yourself the occasional "recovery" week where you run less. I like to run less every fourth week to recover and really focus on workouts.
Saw this got bumped and realized I forgot to check in with my latest race result. I ran CIM, a marathon in Sacramento, CA, that was also hosting the US national marathon championships (although ppl that can compete internationally like Rupp don't show up to this, everyone else does). But I didn't run the marathon -- they've got a 4 segment marathon relay going on too and my wife and I did it, taking 2 segments each. I did the first 2 which were 13.5 miles, but I only ran to the half marathon timing mat and then jogged the rest. I was really hoping to be able to start with the elites, find a nice pack aiming for sub 2:20, and use them to pace me to a sub 70 half. But I didn't get a great start at the line and both my shoes came untied within the first mile. I ended up running the whole thing by myself after stopping to tie my shoes, although I had a nice steady stream of people or packs to chase, so it wasn't that bad.
I paused my watch when I tied my shoes and my watch time was 1:10:22. Chip time was 1:10:54. Either way, a nice solid 1:10 to significantly improve my PR. Not quite the time I was hoping for at the beginning of the year, but training and weight loss didn't happen like I hoped, so I'm pretty happy anyway.
Next up is probably a half marathon in San Francisco on February 4 and then the Cherry Blossom 10 miler in Washington DC on April 8. I'd like to finally run sub-70 in that half and I'd like to do a big taper and have the race of my life at Cherry Blossom. But I gotta keep my head down and grind this training and watch my diet for now.
On October 31 2017 10:26 FiWiFaKi wrote: During strenuous exercise, we're about 25% efficient. So heavy exercise, is about 13 calories / minute, or convert to watts, 900W of heat dissipated, and of that around 225W of mechanical motion.
Yep. Between about 21%-25% encompasses almost everybody for cycling. Running variance can be greater, due to efficiency, but that's based on pace. If we used power I'd expect you'd see a similar range to cycling.
On October 31 2017 10:26 FiWiFaKi wrote: 149 calories in 12 minutes is 12.42 calories per minute, so it would suggest you were working quite hard.
Cycling wise, this is about 210w.
This depends on who you are and where your fitness is. For a 75kg rider at the world tour level, this would be a very easy recovery pace. I've seen guys like Gesink or DeGendt riding around at like 110bpm at 210w.
This pace for me is endurance, but it's similar to going out for an easy run at 5k pace + 2:00 per mile or so.
For a small guy or girl, or less trained person this pace could be incredibly difficult even for a minute or two.
On October 31 2017 10:26 FiWiFaKi wrote: I think a 135lb person and 185lb person will burn similar calories on an exercise bike at constant power output (not at constant speed though). There's too many factors though to read anything meaningful, since the +/- error is like 50% not knowing things like how the machine measures/calculates power, your bodies efficiency, your body composition, inertia of your legs/length of crank arms, etc.
Yes, it's correct that a 135lb and 185 lb person will burn similar calories at a constant power output. In fact, that's true for anyone; because power (times the efficiency factor) IS the determinant of calories burned. That equation being:
Kcal = (((Avg Power (W) x Duration (s)) / 4.18 ) / Efficiency Factor (.2-.25) / 1000)
Using 200w for 1 hour we get: 172kJ/(0.2 to 0.25) = 860 to 690 kcal.
That equations holds irrespective of weight. It also holds irrespective of body composition, intertia, leg proprotions, cranks, etc. If you know power, and you know efficiency you know exactly how many calories are expended. Of the things you listed body composition, intertia of legs, crank length, all do not matter whatsoever when it comes to calculating power or efficiency. Power only requires knowing torque (or force in the case of pedal based system) at either the crank or hub, and your cadence.
How the machine calculates/measures power doesn't matter...well provided it's legitimately calculating power. Unfortunately, as you emphasized, most bikes just infer it, very poorly...usually meaning you can't believe anything an exercise bike spits out. Not too useful to know you burned somewhere between 400 and 1000kcal
On December 10 2017 03:50 NonY wrote: Saw this got bumped and realized I forgot to check in with my latest race result. I ran CIM, a marathon in Sacramento, CA, that was also hosting the US national marathon championships (although ppl that can compete internationally like Rupp don't show up to this, everyone else does). But I didn't run the marathon -- they've got a 4 segment marathon relay going on too and my wife and I did it, taking 2 segments each. I did the first 2 which were 13.5 miles, but I only ran to the half marathon timing mat and then jogged the rest. I was really hoping to be able to start with the elites, find a nice pack aiming for sub 2:20, and use them to pace me to a sub 70 half. But I didn't get a great start at the line and both my shoes came untied within the first mile. I ended up running the whole thing by myself after stopping to tie my shoes, although I had a nice steady stream of people or packs to chase, so it wasn't that bad.
I paused my watch when I tied my shoes and my watch time was 1:10:22. Chip time was 1:10:54. Either way, a nice solid 1:10 to significantly improve my PR. Not quite the time I was hoping for at the beginning of the year, but training and weight loss didn't happen like I hoped, so I'm pretty happy anyway.
Next up is probably a half marathon in San Francisco on February 4 and then the Cherry Blossom 10 miler in Washington DC on April 8. I'd like to finally run sub-70 in that half and I'd like to do a big taper and have the race of my life at Cherry Blossom. But I gotta keep my head down and grind this training and watch my diet for now.
Good shit. Aside from the shoes. That sucks having to worry about that in a race.
Scorching times and making consistent progress. IIrc CIM isn't an especially easy course either. Don't know about Cherry Blosom, but if it's flat you'll certainly have a great shot at it. If you've got some weight you need to lose, and weren't consistent with training it goes without saying you'll easily go sub 1:10 if you can avoid those pitfalls. Hell, even a weight loss of 2lbs moves you into mid 69s.
On December 04 2017 23:18 sekishusai wrote: you guys who run 30-50mpw, how do you do it? and how long it took for you to get to that mileage i checked back my logs and i think the week i ran the most was 32km which is only 20 miles lol
The classic rule of thumb is to increase mileage by 10 percent per week. Going from 20 mpw to 30 would look like this:
Always, always, always listen to your body. If something feels painful or weird and gets worse with use, play it safe. Hoping it will go away on its own is a fool's injury prevention strategy.
Keep in mind that more shorter runs is easier on your body than fewer longer runs. That is, if you're running 30 miles a week, making your long run 20 miles is probably not a great idea.
Give yourself the occasional "recovery" week where you run less. I like to run less every fourth week to recover and really focus on workouts.
I'll admit, I think the 10% rule is silly. It's too conservative imo increasing a couple miles per week, for most under 30 something people. If you're 50 and banged up that's different, but shouldn't be much of TL audience. Most people can add a run a week/5 miles a week or so.
Main thing is don't ramp intensity while doing so. This should be done during a base phase where you're running mostly endurance/tempo/threshold miles and maybe some short sprint stuff with huge recoveries. If you try to add 5mpw when you're doing 3 solid workouts and a long run each week, probably going to hate life and get injured.
Absolutely to everything Bonham said. I like using 20-30% of my weekly volume as long run length depending on frequency. So if you're doing 30 miles that's obviously a long run of 6-9 miles. Longer side of that if frequency is lower, and higher side of that if frequency is higher. This also works good in that if you're only running 3 times a week it doesn't really make sense to have a long run. Every run is going to be "long ish" for your mileage at that point.
Want to reiterate the recovery week thing. If you were trying to build an 8 week block might look like:
25, 30, 35, 20, 30, 35, 40, 25, 35, 40, 45, 20
Those recovery week runs should be EXTREMELY easy, at least for the first one or two. Recovery is when the real magic happens. The training primes the body and tells it "hey we need to get faster", but that actual getting faster happens during your recovery time.
Thanks Bonham and Master, that was great. How often do you run a week? I'm used to running 3 times only but I guess in order to increase mileage I should also run more often,
On December 10 2017 09:51 sekishusai wrote: Thanks Bonham and Master, that was great. How often do you run a week? I'm used to running 3 times only but I guess in order to increase mileage I should also run more often,
It would depend on your goals. Presumably, if you're looking for a mileage increase it's because you want to run faster, or have a long event coming up.
I personally like to add frequency first, working up to 5 or 6 days of training, then start adding the miles to the days. Most super serious runners are training either 6 or 7 days a week. For those doing 7, that extra day is always a VERY easy (think like 5k pace per mile + 3:00-4:00 min/mile). Some runners just feel better if they always do at least a little running, others prefer a day off.
Okay TY, I'll start by adding a 4th day of running, then 5th, then maybe a 6th day. I want to increase mileage because I want to get a routine going again and also want to run faster. My PRs are pretty bad compared to the avg runner imo 5km 22:50 and 10km 54:30 or something. I have no "time" goals as of right now although sub20 5k is something that I'd like very much to do.
On December 13 2017 13:31 AirbladeOrange wrote: What's up L_Master? What have I missed the past few years?
Long time no see!
I bike more than anything these days, but also a bit of lifting here recently since I'm super busy with school + work. Bonham was killing it, had a really long injury, and is no working back into it. NonY just crushed a half and has had some pretty steady progession over the past year+, prime candidate to go sub 1:10 half in 2018.
Yang isn't posting as much but he definitely is still doing pretty damn good at triathlon, couple of HIM top tens. Luckyfool still training as well, but not posting as much. Just ran a pretty solid marathon a month or so ago.
Ugh. Getting back into shape is never fun. It's steady progress but still mentally sucks when you're riding at speeds/wattages that you remember as pretty comfortable cruising zones and now they are challenging for 10-20' segments.
On December 17 2017 07:55 L_Master wrote: Getting back into shape is never fun. It's steady progress but still mentally sucks when you're riding at speeds/wattages that you remember as pretty comfortable cruising zones and now they are challenging for 10-20' segments.
Blarg, tell me about it. It can be pretty demoralizing.
Actually, I just had an idea: I'm going to switch my watch from min/km to min/mile while I'm getting back into shape here. You can't be depressed if you don't know how slow you are!
On December 17 2017 07:55 L_Master wrote: Getting back into shape is never fun. It's steady progress but still mentally sucks when you're riding at speeds/wattages that you remember as pretty comfortable cruising zones and now they are challenging for 10-20' segments.
Blarg, tell me about it. It can be pretty demoralizing.
Actually, I just had an idea: I'm going to switch my watch from min/km to min/mile while I'm getting back into shape here. You can't be depressed if you don't know how slow you are!
I can't do that with watts.
Will probably get a little shape back over break, but then school likely is savage again in Spring. Likely I won't be able to race/train seriously for about 18 more months.
Man I just wanna be in shape sometime for a racing season. I've gotten into great shape the two winters before this and in utterly insane shape earlier this year in March....and then never got to use it.
-2015 I was newer, still learning and went away from what worked and was just kinda in decent shape the rest of the year. -2016 I got a vicious barrage of colds from February to May (7 times?) that derailed that training and most of key races. -2017 I did the best training and build ever, made huge, huge improvements, then right as racing season came a crash and more than anything had to focus on school. Never got to race much with it, since March I've been way to busy to train much and been steadily slipping.
I'm like the fastest/most seriously training dude that almost never races in history lol. I'm still pissed I didn't get to do anything with my spring form....I was looking back at that yesterday and it was fucking stupid the shape I was in then.
Dang. Fitness is coming slowly with the workouts, but haven't had time to do much longer than an hour. Paid for that today on a team ride. Rode hard the first two and a half hours...and then it was lights out. 40 min character building crawl back into curl up fetal position for a few hours. Didn't even eat for like two hours. Ooof.
On December 29 2017 13:20 micronesia wrote: I'm doing a return to run program after a bunch of physical therapy for my legs to strengthen everything up... wish me luck :p
Just take it easy, have low initial expectations, and embrace the process. About the best you can do!
On December 13 2017 13:31 AirbladeOrange wrote: What's up L_Master? What have I missed the past few years?
Long time no see!
I bike more than anything these days, but also a bit of lifting here recently since I'm super busy with school + work. Bonham was killing it, had a really long injury, and is no working back into it. NonY just crushed a half and has had some pretty steady progession over the past year+, prime candidate to go sub 1:10 half in 2018.
Yang isn't posting as much but he definitely is still doing pretty damn good at triathlon, couple of HIM top tens. Luckyfool still training as well, but not posting as much. Just ran a pretty solid marathon a month or so ago.
Thanks for the update! I'm going to try to keep up with everyone here and offer motivation and advice where I can.
On December 29 2017 13:20 micronesia wrote: I'm doing a return to run program after a bunch of physical therapy for my legs to strengthen everything up... wish me luck :p
Good luck. You're around DC, right? I remember meeting you that time I went to Storrzerg's BBQ a while back. If you are still here, hit up that Mt. Vernon Trail.
AirbladeOrange: Yeah I live in Pentagon City so that's pretty accessible. However, I don't intend to run outside in a snow storm lol
In fact, I generally prefer to run on the treadmill believe it or not. The good news is, so far my return to running is going well. Today I was doing 3 minutes on two minutes off without issues.