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And I am inclined to agree that Idra's TvZ is his best MU. I think his ZvZ may be stronger stat-wise, but I think he has a deeper understanding of TvZ.
I don't understand how you can be a caster for IPL and not review the match beforehand, i.e. know who is playing, i.e. pronounce MOonan's name correctly. I usually like Apollo but this is distracting and unprofessional.
Moonan's forays into Idra's territory have been entirely ineffective. Banelings seem to be really really effective against Moonan's marines all the time.
On August 07 2011 09:17 oskarla wrote: Was these games played before or during Moonan was in Korea?
these were played june 15'th i believe somewhere around that time period I'm pretty sure.
That was before he went to Korea. That explains why the game is so low-level ;; I was hoping to see Idra getting eaten alive by some Korean tvz just like in MLG ^_^
On August 07 2011 09:17 oskarla wrote: Was these games played before or during Moonan was in Korea?
these were played june 15'th i believe somewhere around that time period I'm pretty sure.
That was before he went to Korea. That explains why the game is so low-level ;; I was hoping to see Idra getting eaten alive by some Korean tvz just like in MLG ^_^
I hope he's getting a lot of good vs-korean practice, because Moonan is playing pretty mediocrily in these games.
On August 07 2011 09:23 IPA wrote: I don't understand how you can be a caster for IPL and not review the match beforehand, i.e. know who is playing, i.e. pronounce MOonan's name correctly. I usually like Apollo but this is distracting and unprofessional.
Well especially since TB says Moonan pretty clearly every other sentence. It could just be appolos somewhat thick accent making it sound like hes saying moman.
On August 07 2011 09:28 Kammalleri wrote: I uually dont mind dApollo and learned to somewhat appreciate TB, but the cast is terrible...
Moman everytime gets annoying and TB just say a bunch of retarded things and the analysis is just bad
Next series should be better at least
I know it's the internet and you get to say what you want, but consider the fact that the casters may well read this thread looking for feedback on their casting. When you use the words "terrible" and "retarded" are you exaggerating? Be honest.
Its so funny how they talk about how idra is so good and mooman didn't have a chance and then right after start talking about how hes easy to beat and everyone knows how to do it.
On August 07 2011 09:35 sermokala wrote: mnmmmmmnmmm I love my good Idra stomp.
Its so funny how they talk about how idra is so good and mooman didn't have a chance and then right after start talking about how hes easy to beat and everyone knows how to do it.
That pretty much applies to every SC2 player right now except the very top koreans.
If you take a game off Huk, you will lose the "wow he got unbeatable in Korea" fear and probably do better next game
Thorzain v Mana will definitely be good. As both are teammates, they probably know each other's style quite well and with Mana's recent uptick in form, the two are probably relatively evenly matched.
On August 07 2011 09:28 Kammalleri wrote: I uually dont mind dApollo and learned to somewhat appreciate TB, but the cast is terrible...
Moman everytime gets annoying and TB just say a bunch of retarded things and the analysis is just bad
Next series should be better at least
I know it's the internet and you get to say what you want, but consider the fact that the casters may well read this thread looking for feedback on their casting. When you use the words "terrible" and "retarded" are you exaggerating? Be honest.
Honestly there's not much good to say.. I think it's the first time i actually post anything bad about casting. I can usually deal with it pretty well even if there are things that I don't like as much, but these 2 games were painful..
Not caster hating, but it'd be better if IPL hired someone like Mr. Bitter. Most of IPL's casting is play-by-play, and I really think they would benefit from a little more analysis.
On August 07 2011 09:35 SpaceFighting wrote: wow.. the whole theme of IPL is great, i love the design.. simply the best "looking" its so badass!
I have to agree, I really like IPL's 'look'.
GSL is comparably designed and branded, but the IPL feels more 'Western'.
Though throwing in a K-Pop video now and then would be nice, if only for teh lulz.
No. K-pop doesn't fit, and it wouldn't be fun, it would just be terrible. IPL has done a great job with their art and feel to their tournaments, even the music is fitting, kpop would just lose them any credibility they have what so ever.
i really think IPL has almost everything they need to succeed: good system with lower bracket, quite good players, good presentation, good times/schedule, but still even I don't have a lot of interest in watching it because it seems so "unspecial".
for example the cast right now is seriously only play by play and the fake excitement is really bumming me out, a cast for me should be really analytical but also casual as if you were just sitting in a round talking about a game like true nerds instead of trying to be a sports caster
btw: amazing play by mana and thorzain, gotta love t-zains ghost play
On August 07 2011 09:54 SafeAsCheese wrote: 8 less ghosts, 30 more marauders would have helped
Yeah there's some poor decisionmaking going on here. I wish Thorzain was a bit more consistant, at times he's doing awesome, and then the next game in some tournament he's just all over the place.
Mana has really become so solid. His play here and assembly has been stellar. He eliminated both Huk and Nada in Assembly for those who didn't know. You can really see the difference between top eu and top na games watching this. Thorzain vs Mana is so much higher level than Idra vs Moonan it's hardly funny ^_^
-.- Sigh, Mana had it most of the time. He was on 6 base by the time Thorzain got his 4th. Then he just could replenish his army way too fast and thorzain mined out.
On August 07 2011 10:00 Schmoooopy wrote: So Thorzain lost game 1? Just making sure.
Yeah just. Thorzain mostly outclassed mana, but some seriously questionable choices in heavy ghosts early on just made him eventually be left without much army.
On August 07 2011 10:02 CeriseCherries wrote: -.- Sigh, Mana had it most of the time. He was on 6 base by the time Thorzain got his 4th. Then he just could replenish his army way too fast and thorzain mined out.
No, he was on 6 base by the time Thorzain got his 5th
On August 07 2011 10:03 Ertu wrote: That was so disappointing,Thorzain played the game almost excellently and still could not take out late game Toss. So sad right now
He had way too many ghosts, he was emp'ing stuff multiple times in those battles.
On August 07 2011 10:03 Ertu wrote: That was so disappointing,Thorzain played the game almost excellently and still could not take out late game Toss. So sad right now
Toss on 6 bases vs Terran 4 bases is supposed to win imo ^_^
On August 07 2011 10:02 CeriseCherries wrote: -.- Sigh, Mana had it most of the time. He was on 6 base by the time Thorzain got his 4th. Then he just could replenish his army way too fast and thorzain mined out.
No, he was on 6 base by the time Thorzain got his 5th
It was like 4-base ThorZain containing 3-base Mana(+1 not mining hidden expo) , Mana broke contain started softly containing Thorzain and build 2 more bases and it was 6-4 on bases, later 6-5.
On August 07 2011 10:03 Ertu wrote: That was so disappointing,Thorzain played the game almost excellently and still could not take out late game Toss. So sad right now
Actually that game showed that supply-inferior terran army can easily crush supply-superior protoss late game mix (colo+ht+support). The only way that Mana won was beacuse of superior economy.
On August 07 2011 10:09 Zoku wrote: ugh, HD, that's not why he had the scv on patrol
HD's analysis is just horrific, especially considering that he plays at a somewhat high level. (Unlike casters like TB for instance that are excused for not knowing some of the intricacies).
On August 07 2011 10:09 Zoku wrote: ugh, HD, that's not why he had the scv on patrol
HD's analysis is just horrific, especially considering that he plays at a somewhat high level. (Unlike casters like TB for instance that are excused for not knowing some of the intricacies).
It is pretty painful actually.
"He guessed the observer would be there". No ... the stalkers could shoot up the cliff so he looked for their spotter :/.
On August 07 2011 10:03 Ertu wrote: That was so disappointing,Thorzain played the game almost excellently and still could not take out late game Toss. So sad right now
Actually that game showed that supply-inferior terran army can easily crush supply-superior protoss late game mix (colo+ht+support). The only way that Mana won was beacuse of superior economy.
Yes,he only won that battle because there were 20 cloaked ghosts and Mana had no observers.
And looks at this battle in game 2,Thorzain almost losing despite being way ahead economically because Mana was able to camp outside his production facilities for a little while. Mana didn't have any problem reinforcing and taking thorzain out off his base when he lost a similar battle in game one.
Jesus christ, why is HD so optimistic about Thorzain's chances? He's always saying that Thorzain's in control when the game is roughly even. This happened all of last game as well.
On August 07 2011 10:17 CosmicSpiral wrote: Did Painuser just say "Terran can reinforce super quick?"
Yea... since terran can reinforce so quickly protoss needs 100 gateways...
But Terran reinforces the slowest. They have to wait for the build time of each unit, whereas Zerg can have 50+ larva and Toss can have 25 Warp gates for instant reinforcements. I'm not calling imba or anything, but the mechanics of the game definitely allow Zerg and Protoss to reinforce faster.
On August 07 2011 10:17 CosmicSpiral wrote: Did Painuser just say "Terran can reinforce super quick?"
Yea... since terran can reinforce so quickly protoss needs 100 gateways...
But Terran reinforces the slowest. They have to wait for the build time of each unit, whereas Zerg can have 50+ larva and Toss can have 25 Warp gates for instant reinforcements. I'm not calling imba or anything, but the mechanics of the game definitely allow Zerg and Protoss to reinforce faster.
sorry it was meant to be sarcasm directed towards what painuser said. He said protoss need so many gateways because terran can reinforce so quickly
Thorzains style is outdated. He is out playing Mana, but his army is Marauder heavy vs Charge-Lots, and his army is getting crushed. Blue Flame Hellion tech and Thorzain wins both games. Again, he must update his style or he will continue to lose games where he outplays his opponent
Thorzain's relatively low APM letting him down. At peak he can micro very fast, but in general he is quite slow (not Goody slow, but still not amazing), and that meant he got caught out in that final battle. Great game though.
Mana should be called the champion killer after this week lol. First Huk, then Nada and now Thorzain i hope he goes to MLG sometime so he can show all the ignorant americans who's boss
On August 07 2011 10:25 mholden02 wrote: Thorzains style is outdated. He is out playing Mana, but his army is Marauder heavy vs Charge-Lots, and his army is getting crushed. Blue Flame Hellion tech and Thorzain wins both games. Again, he must update his style or he will continue to lose games where he outplays his opponent
On August 07 2011 10:25 mholden02 wrote: Thorzains style is outdated. He is out playing Mana, but his army is Marauder heavy vs Charge-Lots, and his army ius getting crushed. Vlue Flame Hellion tech and Thorzain wins both games. Again, he must update his style or he will contunue to lose games where he outplays his opponent
On August 07 2011 10:26 oskarla wrote: Mana should be called the champion killer after this week lol. First Huk, then Nada and now Thorzain i hope he goes to MLG sometime so he can show all the ignorant americans who's boss
It's a shame we don't get to see Thorzain vs Idra though, Mana is a great PvT player but his PvZ is pretty bad. He even lost to Dimaga in the Assembly who also has ZvP as his worst match up.
On August 07 2011 10:25 mholden02 wrote: Thorzains style is outdated. He is out playing Mana, but his army is Marauder heavy vs Charge-Lots, and his army is getting crushed. Blue Flame Hellion tech and Thorzain wins both games. Again, he must update his style or he will continue to lose games where he outplays his opponent
Nobody playes blueflame Helions against Protoss unless he goes full mech ( which only GoOdy does ). While in Theory blueflame Helions are awesome against Zealots in most cases they don't hit all that many targets and also die like flies in open battles.
On August 07 2011 10:03 Ertu wrote: That was so disappointing,Thorzain played the game almost excellently and still could not take out late game Toss. So sad right now
Actually that game showed that supply-inferior terran army can easily crush supply-superior protoss late game mix (colo+ht+support). The only way that Mana won was beacuse of superior economy.
Yes,he only won that battle because there were 20 cloaked ghosts and Mana had no observers.
And looks at this battle in game 2,Thorzain almost losing despite being way ahead economically because Mana was able to camp outside his production facilities for a little while. Mana didn't have any problem reinforcing and taking thorzain out off his base when he lost a similar battle in game one.
That battle in game two has nothing to do with my point. Also note my use of the word "can (easily) crush", of course I could not hope to achieve that, but with good composition and control it is possible.
On August 07 2011 10:26 oskarla wrote: Mana should be called the champion killer after this week lol. First Huk, then Nada and now Thorzain i hope he goes to MLG sometime so he can show all the ignorant americans who's boss
Americans may be ignorant, but Idra's still going to crush Mana in the next round.
On August 07 2011 10:26 MCDayC wrote: Thorzain's relatively low APM letting him down. At peak he can micro very fast, but in general he is quite slow (not Goody slow, but still not amazing), and that meant he got caught out in that final battle. Great game though.
Not so sure about that. Obviously a very bad engagement but typically his mechanics seem very good, both macro and micro wise. Doesn't he have fairly high apm even? like 180?
On August 07 2011 10:25 mholden02 wrote: Thorzains style is outdated. He is out playing Mana, but his army is Marauder heavy vs Charge-Lots, and his army is getting crushed. Blue Flame Hellion tech and Thorzain wins both games. Again, he must update his style or he will continue to lose games where he outplays his opponent
Nobody playes blueflame Helions against Protoss unless he goes full mech ( which only GoOdy does ). While in Theory blueflame Helions are awesome against Zealots in most cases they don't hit all that many targets and also die like flies.
Plus a few storms will melt hellions easily. Archons are pretty good against BFH comp too.
On August 07 2011 10:25 mholden02 wrote: Thorzains style is outdated. He is out playing Mana, but his army is Marauder heavy vs Charge-Lots, and his army is getting crushed. Blue Flame Hellion tech and Thorzain wins both games. Again, he must update his style or he will continue to lose games where he outplays his opponent
Nobody playes blueflame Helions against Protoss unless he goes full mech ( which only GoOdy does ). While in Theory blueflame Helions are awesome against Zealots in most cases they don't hit all that many targets and also die like flies.
They are also very fast and cheap and have lots of purposes, harass and map control for example.
On August 07 2011 10:26 oskarla wrote: Mana should be called the champion killer after this week lol. First Huk, then Nada and now Thorzain i hope he goes to MLG sometime so he can show all the ignorant americans who's boss
Was that necessary?
It was partly joking and partly because most people I see in these threads just ignoring Mana and saying that Nada/Huk/Thorzain just made silly mistakes are American ^_^
On August 07 2011 10:25 mholden02 wrote: Thorzains style is outdated. He is out playing Mana, but his army is Marauder heavy vs Charge-Lots, and his army is getting crushed. Blue Flame Hellion tech and Thorzain wins both games. Again, he must update his style or he will continue to lose games where he outplays his opponent
Nobody playes blueflame Helions against Protoss unless he goes full mech ( which only GoOdy does ). While in Theory blueflame Helions are awesome against Zealots in most cases they don't hit all that many targets and also die like flies.
They are also very fast and cheap and have lots of purposes, harass and map control for example.
But they are not good Units in big engagements. You can build some for Map control or Harrass but in open battles they're nothing more then sacrifiecial lambs that buffer some damage. Even in TvT where they are super popular right now . They'll just die left and right like crazy in big fights.
On August 07 2011 10:25 mholden02 wrote: Thorzains style is outdated. He is out playing Mana, but his army is Marauder heavy vs Charge-Lots, and his army is getting crushed. Blue Flame Hellion tech and Thorzain wins both games. Again, he must update his style or he will continue to lose games where he outplays his opponent
Nobody playes blueflame Helions against Protoss unless he goes full mech ( which only GoOdy does ). While in Theory blueflame Helions are awesome against Zealots in most cases they don't hit all that many targets and also die like flies.
They are also very fast and cheap and have lots of purposes, harass and map control for example.
But they are not good Units in big engagements. You can build some for Map control or Harrass but in open battles they're nothing more then sacrifiecial lambs that buffer some damage.
That's all the meching Terran needs though,if he can buy an extra tank shot or two for his tanks by sacrificing his helions,he will definitely prevail in the battle. And helions are,as stated above,easily replacable.
On August 07 2011 10:26 oskarla wrote: Mana should be called the champion killer after this week lol. First Huk, then Nada and now Thorzain i hope he goes to MLG sometime so he can show all the ignorant americans who's boss
Was that necessary?
It was partly joking and partly because most people I see in these threads just ignoring Mana and saying that Nada/Huk/Thorzain just made silly mistakes are American ^_^
Can you blame us for not following every single one of the small european tourneys like craft cups?
Out of MAJOR EVENTS, Thorzain is much more accomplished than MaNa, so people assumed he would win
On August 07 2011 10:25 mholden02 wrote: Thorzains style is outdated. He is out playing Mana, but his army is Marauder heavy vs Charge-Lots, and his army is getting crushed. Blue Flame Hellion tech and Thorzain wins both games. Again, he must update his style or he will continue to lose games where he outplays his opponent
Nobody playes blueflame Helions against Protoss unless he goes full mech ( which only GoOdy does ). While in Theory blueflame Helions are awesome against Zealots in most cases they don't hit all that many targets and also die like flies.
They are also very fast and cheap and have lots of purposes, harass and map control for example.
But they are not good Units in big engagements. You can build some for Map control or Harrass but in open battles they're nothing more then sacrifiecial lambs that buffer some damage.
That's all the meching Terran needs though,if he can buy an extra tank shot or two for his tanks by sacrificing his helions,he will definitely prevail in the battle. And helions are,as stated above,easily replacable.
On August 07 2011 10:25 mholden02 wrote: Thorzains style is outdated. He is out playing Mana, but his army is Marauder heavy vs Charge-Lots, and his army ius getting crushed. Vlue Flame Hellion tech and Thorzain wins both games. Again, he must update his style or he will contunue to lose games where he outplays his opponent
nice theorycraft and thorzain didnt outplay mana
Really? in game two he was up 30 supply, + 2 bases, 2 starports, upgrades, ghost tech, yet his +30 army got crushed? Same as in game 1. Storms did very little, Colossus didn't do much, so what is it? Is Mana magical?
On August 07 2011 10:26 oskarla wrote: Mana should be called the champion killer after this week lol. First Huk, then Nada and now Thorzain i hope he goes to MLG sometime so he can show all the ignorant americans who's boss
Was that necessary?
It was partly joking and partly because most people I see in these threads just ignoring Mana and saying that Nada/Huk/Thorzain just made silly mistakes are American ^_^
Can you blame us for not following every single one of the small european tourneys like craft cups?
Out of MAJOR EVENTS, Thorzain is much more accomplished than MaNa, so people assumed he would win
Well, mana has gotten second place in dreamhack and assembly. Those or both major tournaments. Thorzain has only won TSL which is a big tournament but it's also online.
On August 07 2011 10:25 mholden02 wrote: Thorzains style is outdated. He is out playing Mana, but his army is Marauder heavy vs Charge-Lots, and his army is getting crushed. Blue Flame Hellion tech and Thorzain wins both games. Again, he must update his style or he will continue to lose games where he outplays his opponent
Nobody playes blueflame Helions against Protoss unless he goes full mech ( which only GoOdy does ). While in Theory blueflame Helions are awesome against Zealots in most cases they don't hit all that many targets and also die like flies.
They are also very fast and cheap and have lots of purposes, harass and map control for example.
But they are not good Units in big engagements. You can build some for Map control or Harrass but in open battles they're nothing more then sacrifiecial lambs that buffer some damage.
That's all the meching Terran needs though,if he can buy an extra tank shot or two for his tanks by sacrificing his helions,he will definitely prevail in the battle. And helions are,as stated above,easily replacable.
Ehh against Protoss where Tanks are not as good as in other MU's i'm not convinced. Even GoOdy and all his experience with his Mechstyle isn't going to for a Ultralategame with Mech against Toss. He'll push before the Protoss has 10-20 Gates because you can't trade with the Protoss anymore at that point you have to win the fight extremely convicing or the reeinforcements will just kill you.
On August 07 2011 10:26 oskarla wrote: Mana should be called the champion killer after this week lol. First Huk, then Nada and now Thorzain i hope he goes to MLG sometime so he can show all the ignorant americans who's boss
Americans may be ignorant, but Idra's still going to crush Mana in the next round.
Anyone who underestimate's Mana's PvZ after training with Stephano, is rather foolish indeed.
On August 07 2011 10:25 mholden02 wrote: Thorzains style is outdated. He is out playing Mana, but his army is Marauder heavy vs Charge-Lots, and his army is getting crushed. Blue Flame Hellion tech and Thorzain wins both games. Again, he must update his style or he will continue to lose games where he outplays his opponent
Nobody playes blueflame Helions against Protoss unless he goes full mech ( which only GoOdy does ). While in Theory blueflame Helions are awesome against Zealots in most cases they don't hit all that many targets and also die like flies.
They are also very fast and cheap and have lots of purposes, harass and map control for example.
But they are not good Units in big engagements. You can build some for Map control or Harrass but in open battles they're nothing more then sacrifiecial lambs that buffer some damage.
That's all the meching Terran needs though,if he can buy an extra tank shot or two for his tanks by sacrificing his helions,he will definitely prevail in the battle. And helions are,as stated above,easily replacable.
Ehh against Protoss where Tanks are not as good as in other MU's i'm not convinced. Even GoOdy and all his experience with his Mechstyle isn't going to for a Ultralategame with Mech against Toss. He'll push before the Protoss has 10-20 Gates because you can't trade with the Protoss anymore at that point you have to win the fight extremely convicing or the reeinforcements will just kill you.
So because Terrans have not been using Hellions, your assuming they don't fit the matchup? Tell you what, open up your unit tester, and run some Charge-Lot vs Rauder simulations, and some Blue Hellion vs Charge-Lot simulations. Its ridiculous the difference. Yet Terrans have an 80% Rauder army vs a 60+% Charge-Lot army. And they lose. Well, of course they do.
Don't worry in a couple weeks Bomber or MVP will break out Blue Hellions vs Toss Charge-Lot army, he will crush, and everyone will wonder, why didn't we do that before?
On August 07 2011 10:25 mholden02 wrote: Thorzains style is outdated. He is out playing Mana, but his army is Marauder heavy vs Charge-Lots, and his army is getting crushed. Blue Flame Hellion tech and Thorzain wins both games. Again, he must update his style or he will continue to lose games where he outplays his opponent
Nobody playes blueflame Helions against Protoss unless he goes full mech ( which only GoOdy does ). While in Theory blueflame Helions are awesome against Zealots in most cases they don't hit all that many targets and also die like flies.
They are also very fast and cheap and have lots of purposes, harass and map control for example.
But they are not good Units in big engagements. You can build some for Map control or Harrass but in open battles they're nothing more then sacrifiecial lambs that buffer some damage.
That's all the meching Terran needs though,if he can buy an extra tank shot or two for his tanks by sacrificing his helions,he will definitely prevail in the battle. And helions are,as stated above,easily replacable.
stop theorycrafting mech is horrible vs toss
Please also state that gateway units are terrible vs marine-marauder so that I make sure you still live in 2010. I use mech in EU masters versus Toss on certain maps with great success,so do a few pro players. Check Goody vs Nightend from this same tournament,
On August 07 2011 10:26 oskarla wrote: Mana should be called the champion killer after this week lol. First Huk, then Nada and now Thorzain i hope he goes to MLG sometime so he can show all the ignorant americans who's boss
Americans may be ignorant, but Idra's still going to crush Mana in the next round.
Anyone who underestimate's Mana's PvZ after training with Stephano, is rather foolish indeed.
If Stephano is still doing that ling/infestor style I would be concerned for Mana's chances. ;P
On August 07 2011 10:26 oskarla wrote: Mana should be called the champion killer after this week lol. First Huk, then Nada and now Thorzain i hope he goes to MLG sometime so he can show all the ignorant americans who's boss
Americans may be ignorant, but Idra's still going to crush Mana in the next round.
Anyone who underestimate's Mana's PvZ after training with Stephano, is rather foolish indeed.
If Stephano is still doing that ling/infestor style I would be concerned for Mana's chances. ;P
On August 07 2011 10:26 oskarla wrote: Mana should be called the champion killer after this week lol. First Huk, then Nada and now Thorzain i hope he goes to MLG sometime so he can show all the ignorant americans who's boss
Americans may be ignorant, but Idra's still going to crush Mana in the next round.
Anyone who underestimate's Mana's PvZ after training with Stephano, is rather foolish indeed.
If Stephano is still doing that ling/infestor style I would be concerned for Mana's chances. ;P
Try Ultralisk style.
You can't stoke my interests and not post replays! That would be criminal.
On August 07 2011 10:25 mholden02 wrote: Thorzains style is outdated. He is out playing Mana, but his army is Marauder heavy vs Charge-Lots, and his army is getting crushed. Blue Flame Hellion tech and Thorzain wins both games. Again, he must update his style or he will continue to lose games where he outplays his opponent
Nobody playes blueflame Helions against Protoss unless he goes full mech ( which only GoOdy does ). While in Theory blueflame Helions are awesome against Zealots in most cases they don't hit all that many targets and also die like flies.
They are also very fast and cheap and have lots of purposes, harass and map control for example.
But they are not good Units in big engagements. You can build some for Map control or Harrass but in open battles they're nothing more then sacrifiecial lambs that buffer some damage.
That's all the meching Terran needs though,if he can buy an extra tank shot or two for his tanks by sacrificing his helions,he will definitely prevail in the battle. And helions are,as stated above,easily replacable.
stop theorycrafting mech is horrible vs toss
Please also state that gateway units are terrible vs marine-marauder so that I make sure you still live in 2010. I use mech in EU masters versus Toss on certain maps with great success,so do a few pro players. Check Goody vs Nightend from this same tournament,
It can be decent BUT you can't allow the Protoss to reach a certain point to economy because he'll there's no way you will ever reeinforce fast enough against alot of Gateways.
On August 07 2011 10:26 oskarla wrote: Mana should be called the champion killer after this week lol. First Huk, then Nada and now Thorzain i hope he goes to MLG sometime so he can show all the ignorant americans who's boss
Americans may be ignorant, but Idra's still going to crush Mana in the next round.
Anyone who underestimate's Mana's PvZ after training with Stephano, is rather foolish indeed.
If Stephano is still doing that ling/infestor style I would be concerned for Mana's chances. ;P
Try Ultralisk style.
You can't stoke my interests and not post replays! That would be criminal.
BratOK vs Stephano, Bronze match Assembly 2011 (yesterday), check http://www.twitch.tv/setttv for some vods, assuming they are accessible.
On August 07 2011 10:26 oskarla wrote: Mana should be called the champion killer after this week lol. First Huk, then Nada and now Thorzain i hope he goes to MLG sometime so he can show all the ignorant americans who's boss
Americans may be ignorant, but Idra's still going to crush Mana in the next round.
Anyone who underestimate's Mana's PvZ after training with Stephano, is rather foolish indeed.
Man's PvZ has improved a lot. he took Dimaga to a best of 5 in the final of Assembly. Where as before, he was terrible in the matchup. You might be surprised how well he plays. He may very well win.
Btw i doubt Mana won/wins vs Idra if this game is any indicator i'm not sure Mana was already on point with his PvZ at the point the games have been played.
On August 07 2011 10:47 Skez wrote: Who's the yellow terran in the production tab??
It has to do with the special version of the map that is used to hide the score of a match in the history of the players on Battle.net to make spoiling the tournament impossible.
These Games also have been played before GoOdy adjusted his style . GoOdy completely changed his timings and also has some new nice pushes and actually improved quite nicely in his macro. I saw alot of him in the last weeks and this looks nothing like what GoOdy plays like right now besides the Unitscomposition . ( that ofc will never change :D )
lol, Goody completely refuses to acknowledge that those north and south passages on this version of the map completely negate hiss tank line in the middle.
On August 07 2011 10:56 s3rp wrote: These Games also have been played before GoOdy adjusted his style . GoOdy completely changed his timings and also has some new nice pushes and actually improved quite nicely in his macro. I saw alot of him in the last weeks and this looks nothing like what GoOdy plays like right now besides the Unitscomposition . ( that ofc will never change :D )
I agree. The last couple weeks he's in every final I watch. I don't know what he did, but his Mech looks really good the last couple weeks. Just goes to show how changing a few small things can have such a huge impact on your results. He's playing amazing.
On August 07 2011 10:59 Devolved wrote: lol, Goody completely refuses to acknowledge that those north and south passages on this version of the map completely negate hiss tank line in the middle.
On August 07 2011 10:56 s3rp wrote: These Games also have been played before GoOdy adjusted his style . GoOdy completely changed his timings and also has some new nice pushes and actually improved quite nicely in his macro. I saw alot of him in the last weeks and this looks nothing like what GoOdy plays like right now besides the Unitscomposition . ( that ofc will never change :D )
I agree. The last couple weeks he's in every final I watch. I don't know what he did, but his Mech looks really good the last couple weeks. Just goes to show how changing a few small things can have such a huge impact on your results. He's playing amazing.
har to believe after a game like this. (troll joke)
On August 07 2011 10:56 s3rp wrote: These Games also have been played before GoOdy adjusted his style . GoOdy completely changed his timings and also has some new nice pushes and actually improved quite nicely in his macro. I saw alot of him in the last weeks and this looks nothing like what GoOdy plays like right now besides the Unitscomposition . ( that ofc will never change :D )
I agree. The last couple weeks he's in every final I watch. I don't know what he did, but his Mech looks really good the last couple weeks. Just goes to show how changing a few small things can have such a huge impact on your results. He's playing amazing.
Yes.
Goody did well in the past partly because mech was sorta rare, and partly because he had very good decision-making.
Recently his mechanics have improved a lot. I also think Goody's ability to find good timings for mech pushes is really, really good (he doesn't ALWAYS turtle to 200/200 and 3/3.)
On August 07 2011 11:18 dAPhREAk wrote: why would goody make pfs all in one place when he has a contain. totalbiscuit, ......
Probably because we don't take games that are obviously over remotely seriously. Those looking for detailed analysis of expanding into your opponent's natural should check out Day[9].
On August 07 2011 11:18 dAPhREAk wrote: why would goody make pfs all in one place when he has a contain. totalbiscuit, ......
Probably because we don't take games that are obviously over remotely seriously. Those looking for detailed analysis of expanding into your opponent's natural should check out Day[9].
On August 07 2011 11:18 dAPhREAk wrote: why would goody make pfs all in one place when he has a contain. totalbiscuit, ......
Probably because we don't take games that are obviously over remotely seriously. Those looking for detailed analysis of expanding into your opponent's natural should check out Day[9].
On August 07 2011 11:18 dAPhREAk wrote: why would goody make pfs all in one place when he has a contain. totalbiscuit, ......
Probably because we don't take games that are obviously over remotely seriously. Those looking for detailed analysis of expanding into your opponent's natural should check out Day[9].
oh, so you actually thought he was going to go mass pf's. i thought you were trying to make a joke.
On August 07 2011 11:18 dAPhREAk wrote: why would goody make pfs all in one place when he has a contain. totalbiscuit, ......
Probably because we don't take games that are obviously over remotely seriously. Those looking for detailed analysis of expanding into your opponent's natural should check out Day[9].
oh, so you actually thought he was going to go mass pf's. i thought you were trying to make a joke.
Are you crazy or something? Didn't you read what I just said?
On August 07 2011 11:18 dAPhREAk wrote: why would goody make pfs all in one place when he has a contain. totalbiscuit, ......
Probably because we don't take games that are obviously over remotely seriously. Those looking for detailed analysis of expanding into your opponent's natural should check out Day[9].
Spitting the truth on the haters
It's not the truth though.
Goody made mass orbitals to secure his win. This has actually been pretty common if you watch GSL TvT's that make it into the late game.
Some of you really take SC2 way too seriously and nitpick lighthearted comments way too much. Needless to say, nobody actually thought he was going mass-planetary fortress. Lighten up and enjoy some somewhat silly games.
On August 07 2011 11:18 dAPhREAk wrote: why would goody make pfs all in one place when he has a contain. totalbiscuit, ......
Probably because we don't take games that are obviously over remotely seriously. Those looking for detailed analysis of expanding into your opponent's natural should check out Day[9].
oh, so you actually thought he was going to go mass pf's. i thought you were trying to make a joke.
Are you crazy or something? Didn't you read what I just said?
yeah, i read it. you either said on the cast that he was going mass pf because you actually thought he was, which would be ridiculous as going mass oc in late game tvt has been standard for months. or, you were saying he was going mass pf because you thought it was funny, which it wasnt.....
On August 07 2011 11:33 dAPhREAk wrote: yeah, i read it. you either said on the cast that he was going mass pf because you actually thought he was, which would be ridiculous as going mass oc in late game tvt has been standard for months. or, you were saying he was going mass pf because you thought it was funny, which it wasnt.....
What's funny is watching yet another person believing that humour isn't the most subjective thing in the world.
On August 07 2011 11:33 dAPhREAk wrote: yeah, i read it. you either said on the cast that he was going mass pf because you actually thought he was, which would be ridiculous as going mass oc in late game tvt has been standard for months. or, you were saying he was going mass pf because you thought it was funny, which it wasnt.....
What's funny is watching yet another person believing that humour isn't the most subjective thing in the world.
VIDDDEOOOGGAAAMMEEEZZZ!!!!
the awkward silence from d.apollo was him agreeing with me.....
On August 07 2011 11:33 dAPhREAk wrote: yeah, i read it. you either said on the cast that he was going mass pf because you actually thought he was, which would be ridiculous as going mass oc in late game tvt has been standard for months. or, you were saying he was going mass pf because you thought it was funny, which it wasnt.....
What's funny is watching yet another person believing that humour isn't the most subjective thing in the world.
VIDDDEOOOGGAAAMMEEEZZZ!!!!
the awkward silence from d.apollo was him agreeing with me.....
On August 07 2011 11:33 dAPhREAk wrote: yeah, i read it. you either said on the cast that he was going mass pf because you actually thought he was, which would be ridiculous as going mass oc in late game tvt has been standard for months. or, you were saying he was going mass pf because you thought it was funny, which it wasnt.....
What's funny is watching yet another person believing that humour isn't the most subjective thing in the world.
VIDDDEOOOGGAAAMMEEEZZZ!!!!
the awkward silence from d.apollo was him agreeing with me.....
As we've seen so far, what you believe hasn't had a good track record
yeah, im not sure what that means so i'll just leave it at that.
and i have to confess, i heard from incontrol that you get overly defensive in forum posts, so when i saw you were posting in this thread i decided to make a remark to see if it was true. lol.
I'm pretty sure Select won rather convincingly . My guess is this was played at the time Select was training / had trained. rather specifically for White-Ra because of NASL for example.
As we've seen so far, what you believe hasn't had a good track record
yeah, im not sure what that means so i'll just leave it at that.
and i have to confess, i heard from incontrol that you get overly defensive in forum posts, so when i saw you were posting in this thread i decided to make a remark to see if it was true. lol.
On August 07 2011 11:44 dAPhREAk wrote: and i have to confess, i heard from incontrol that you get overly defensive in forum posts, so when i saw you were posting in this thread i decided to make a remark to see if it was true. lol.
On August 07 2011 11:44 dAPhREAk wrote: and i have to confess, i heard from incontrol that you get overly defensive in forum posts, so when i saw you were posting in this thread i decided to make a remark to see if it was true. lol.
No you didn't, but that's cute none-the-less
i didnt what? i said something negative about your casting and you immediately responded.... thats what i expected you to do based on what incontrol said....
Exactly like i thought , in the last German Scenecast Darkfoce and Hasuobs told that Select told them at the NASL-Finals that he completely studied White-Ra and knows all his builds and where he tends to do what.
On August 07 2011 11:53 s3rp wrote: Exactly like i thought , in the last German Scenecast Darkfoce and Hasuobs told that Select told them at the NASL-Finals that he completely studied White-Ra and knows all his builds and where he tends to do what.
On August 07 2011 11:53 s3rp wrote: Exactly like i thought , in the last German Scenecast Darkfoce and Hasuobs told that Select told them at the NASL-Finals that he completely studied White-Ra and knows all his builds and where he tends to do what.
He wasnt ready for ARCHON DROPS!!!!! during MLG
Can't know everything but he still won the series so not like it hurt him too much.
On August 07 2011 11:53 s3rp wrote: Exactly like i thought , in the last German Scenecast Darkfoce and Hasuobs told that Select told them at the NASL-Finals that he completely studied White-Ra and knows all his builds and where he tends to do what.
He wasnt ready for ARCHON DROPS!!!!! during MLG
Can't know everything but he still won the series so not like it hurt him too much.
Yeah... it's not like the archon drop really did that much damage anyways. White-ra was already way ahead in the game. I just thought it was a hilarious use of the warp prism. Select seems to have White-Ra's number. Too bad he never seems to win any of his group stage games at MLG Only loser's bracket runs for him
I really don't get why Artosis talks so much Ravens. Ravens are not all that usefull if the opponent builds cloaked Units because in most cases they don't do anything but detect cloaked Units because your opponent in just about every lategame composition will not have many if any units with misseles. So it'll basically be a visible super expensive observer.
And if you get to 200 Supply you in most cases don't mule anymore anyway. You'll just mine out faster and get faster minerals you don't need. Well unless you build a buttload of CC's and sacrifice alot of workers.
I'm glad White Ra was finally able to beat SeleCT somewhere (after losing in NASL and MLG to him, and I wanna say they met somewhere else but I could be wrong)
On August 07 2011 12:21 s3rp wrote: I really don't get why Artosis talks so much Ravens. Ravens are not all that usefull if the opponent builds cloaked Units because in most cases they don't do anything but detect cloaked Units because your opponent in just about every lategame composition will not have many if any units with misseles. So it'll basically be a visible super expensive observer.
Protoss still use stalkers in late game compositions, it can be really helpful for mech in TvT if your opponent tries to go heavy marauder, and against Zerg it will save you about 100 scans.
On August 07 2011 12:21 wuddersup wrote: Select loses with 375 apm versus White-Ra's 160...
A lot of that 375 is just spam, but tbh, Select never capitalized on his advantage. He got outmacroed pretty hard by White-Ra. When you have a 200/200 army vs a 120/200 army with a better unit composition and 3 more bases, you dont really have to have that high of APM to win. White ra could afford to be sloppy with his units. Also, he is well known not to have an amazingly high APM while Select is known as one of the higher APM pros.
On August 07 2011 12:21 s3rp wrote: I really don't get why Artosis talks so much Ravens. Ravens are not all that usefull if the opponent builds cloaked Units because in most cases they don't do anything but detect cloaked Units because your opponent in just about every lategame composition will not have many if any units with misseles. So it'll basically be a visible super expensive observer.
And if you get to 200 Supply you in most cases don't mule anymore anyway. You'll just mine out faster and get faster minerals you don't need. Well unless you build a buttload of CC's and sacrifice alot of workers.
Na there pretty good but hard to keep alive for their price. They're so slow, they die in any confrontation, so its hard to get your moneys worth.
On August 07 2011 12:21 s3rp wrote: I really don't get why Artosis talks so much Ravens. Ravens are not all that usefull if the opponent builds cloaked Units because in most cases they don't do anything but detect cloaked Units because your opponent in just about every lategame composition will not have many if any units with misseles. So it'll basically be a visible super expensive observer.
Protoss still use stalkers in late game compositions, it can be really helpful for mech in TvT if your opponent tries to go heavy marauder, and against Zerg it will save you about 100 scans.
In TvT it's great but not as a detection Units . In TvZ its only usefull if you don't play army trade style because you can't trade armies with Ravens in it. In TvP well in absolute lategame you rarely see alot of stalker in the lategame but even if the opponent builds same because of the kiting you need to do with Bio PDD becomes less effetive ( and the Raven will eventually die while kiting , he's too slow )
Well yeah i guess the Ravens slow movement speed is probably its biggest problem.
I remember IdrA talking about him playing vs. Mana on his stream with Sheth... I have to wonder if he was referring to this. IdrA said something like "he lost the games he cheesed and won the games he turtled."
On August 07 2011 13:21 sjschmidt93 wrote: I remember IdrA talking about him playing vs. Mana on his stream with Sheth... I have to wonder if he was referring to this. IdrA said something like "he lost the games he cheesed and won the games he turtled."
He also played him in NASL. Could be that too. They have probably played each other in other things too.
liestening to music while watching the stream on mute, because HD is so clueless it's not even funny, and Painuser, even if he knows wha't really going on, is just ignoring this and leaving less educated audiance with the wrong idea about the situation.
16 ghosts on the field, "HE SHOULD BUILD SOME ARCHONS THAT WOULD BE GREAT BULKY UNIT FOR THE PROTOSS..."
Yes WhiteRa!!! Man those two guys have a lot of history recently. MLG, NASL and now IPL (though I suppose IPL was before) and I think I am forgetting one other recent match between them.