EPT[H] Scouting as T... What to look for?
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bunniboi
United States27 Posts
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SKN1995
Japan204 Posts
Let's say you're playing TvZ and you plan on doing reaper FE into 2 medivac stim pressure. Then you have a build order: depot rax gas orbital reaper rax reactor depot gas fact stim starport etc then you need to figure out in which scenarios you need to deviate by building a bunker or making another adjustment. So first you need to figure out what you are scouting for and then you try to figure out clever ways to scout for those things you need to worry about. but honestly the people you're playing against have no clue and their builds arent refined so it's easy to end up being confused playing against them. | ||
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bunniboi
United States27 Posts
like what are some signs that mean a zerg is going to do a roach/ravager push etc.? | ||
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SKN1995
Japan204 Posts
On September 12 2016 09:46 bunniboi wrote: yeah i mean i know how to adapt and i know how to scout, but my problem is i dont know what i'm looking for know what i mean? like what are some signs that mean a zerg is going to do a roach/ravager push etc.? Well, how are you opening? Which specific roach ravager timings are giving you a hard time etc. Need specifics to give you meaningful advise ^^ Also this might belong here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-strategy/498659-the-lotv-terran-help-me-thread | ||
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bunniboi
United States27 Posts
Also, that link is great tyvm! | ||
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Alluton
Finland113 Posts
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Dracover
Australia177 Posts
1. Reaper checks to see if it's 1 gate expand or 1 base tech (keep reaper alive) 2. If 1 base expand re-check with reaper later to see what tech path. 3. Assuming you scout stargate or robo check with a scan (your reaper is likely dead at this point) to see if it's an all in or macro build. Always take note of where the toss has placed pylons so you know where to scan. Protoss don't have the flex in their builds to have multiple pylons lying around for no reason early game. | ||
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Sound1
France93 Posts
On September 12 2016 09:32 bunniboi wrote: my MMR in 1v1s as terran is 3.8k dia tier 3. I've always been bad with scouting, i dont really know what i'm looking for. Ho man, you make my day with your post ! I m Terran gold T1/Plat T3, and sometimes I think to myself why I scout my opponent because I don't know how to analyse what I see. I m not a good player at sc2, I don't play enough to become a good one, but I watch A LOT of sc2 games, and I listen with attention all comments from the casters. I will not teach you how to play sc2, you re betten than me, but what I learnt watching some sc2 games. The key in the scouting process is how the opponent uses his gaz. When you go for tech (units T2 and upgrades) you need more or less gaz like we make 2 refinery in 1 base in TvT to rush the spatioport. That's the same thing for P ans Z. A Zerg with 4 gas on 2 bases will probably go Muta cause Muta cost a lot of gas. It is not a big deal but I advice you to play random sometimes, just to learn how the others races work. I made a second account to play random. I play in Silver league, I lose a lot when I don't pick Terran but I learn a lot too. | ||
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DevilDriver
Germany77 Posts
1. Gas Timings, when did the opponent take how many geysers 2. What buildings does he have, more specifically: 2.1 A higher tech tree with buildings like lair or robo 2.2 Upgrade Facilities 3. Check out for expansions (and often you can deny their expansion a little with your scout) 4. Check their army 5. Try to take watchtowers and position marines at key locations on the map to determine their army position (in midgame) Against Zerg: keep a close look, whether they are taking gas and making lings on 2 base or taking the third. You may also look for a baneling nest or roach warren. Then later try to have a unit or drop at their potential 4th base location. Try to scout for Mutas (Spire) or fast hive tech. If you see him taking overlord speed you should always keep in mind, that this enables him to make drops and nydus more easily. Against Protoss: At first check if they are taking a second base. If they do so it is often useful to make a scan in the early game when you are building up your infrastructure (assuming you are doing some 2-3 base macro opener into MMM). You want to know how many gateways he has and which tech choice. Sending a drop is pretty much the best scouting against protoss. Also maybe have a marine on their third. It is extremely important to watch out for warp prisms and proxy pylons. Depending on their timing they mean either harrasment or committed attacks. When expanding look for pylons near your new base. Against Terran: You almost always should send a scv scout. You want to keep a close look on their gas timing and if their building an early factory or cc. Then in the midgame, you want to know, if they are building barracks or factories,often times a scan does the job or an early drop. Also watch if they are taking upgrades and if they are building a third. If you see him producing a lot units without building a third command center, he will probably try to deny your third with a push. Hope, that helps, I'm a Dia 1, former high master player. | ||
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Sound1
France93 Posts
On September 12 2016 17:49 DevilDriver wrote: Hello, here are some basic things you are looking out for when scouting: 1. Gas Timings, when did the opponent take how many geysers 2. What buildings does he have, more specifically: 2.1 A higher tech tree with buildings like lair or robo 2.2 Upgrade Facilities 3. Check out for expansions (and often you can deny their expansion a little with your scout) 4. Check their army 5. Try to take watchtowers and position marines at key locations on the map to determine their army position (in midgame) ... Some very good advices there. Thanks a lot.  | ||
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Davec433
18 Posts
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IcemanAsi
Israel681 Posts
Keep a google doc running, after each game ( yes, each game) summarize it a single sentence like: ZvT - Loss - Ling Bane Muta, went ultras too late, lost to mass bio tank or ZvP - Win - two base adpet immortal, held with roach ravager queens, hydra cleanup once you start seeing trends, like you are losing to specific things go to that replay and look at your opponents view, what tech did he need? when did he need it? what did he have to cut to get it? You now have a specific item you are scouting for. This game is too wide, and builds too varied, especially at our levels to be as specific as pros, neither we nor are opponents are running super refined builds that actually have super specific scout times. So it's about recognizing what kills you often then looking for that. | ||
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JackONeill
861 Posts
In TvP : - scv scout when rax is half done. You'll wanna look if the natural is in a regular timing, and if there's one or 2 gates (which indicates a pylon rush) - reaper scout : you'll want to guess the protoss tech by elimination. Protoss land their tech after the second base and second gaz. You'll want to see what tech building are landed, and, by elimination, know what you're not up against. For instance, if you sacrifice your reaper to scout the protoss main, if you see a robo, you won't die to an oracle rush your mineral line. Or you might if the toss delayed his natural to have a fast second gaz and proxy a stargate, which is why scv scout is pretty much mandatory to have a close look In TvZ : - you only need to reaper scout. Except on dasan station maybe. You'll want to see how much gaz the zerg take, how much lings he produces, and how fast is he intending to take a third. Basically you're looking wether he allins or not In TvT : either you don't scout, either you scv scout after the first supply. - scv scout : you'll be looking for a 3rr or a proxy rax. Scouting it won't help you defend it if your build doesn't, but at least you'll be prepared - if you don't scv scout, you won't scout. You'll be going for something agressive that will give you information by poking. For instance, if you go reaper hellion or mine drop, you'll be able to scout whatever he has. Same thing if you go for a reaper expand, you'll be able to see what infrastructures he built | ||
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washikie
United States752 Posts
Vs protoss. Did they send a probe to scout you? If so did its trajectory suggest it went home or is still on the map?--> check for proxies if this alighns with other Intel. How much gas have they mined 2 gas+core before expo= some kind of proxy/tech rush with oracles Dts or proxy robo immortal Did they go gate-> core nexus or gate nexus core. If they went the latter look for big gateway allins by checking the third timing If they went for a faster core check to see if they are moving units across the map--> pylon Allin Else some kind of tech rush. If you predict tech rush scout for proxies and squeeze in an eBay for orcle/dt if it's a macro or big gate Allin try to build up a big army while pressuring with small drops, see byun vs dear for how to hold an adept Allin. If you play a drop heavy style it's also important to recognize if your opponent is getting phoenixes or blink. If your opponent knows what they are doing with these units you have to be carful with drops you can still do it but you have to drop a lot of units one place and surprise them you can't feed in drop ships slowly like you can vs heavy gateway 3 expo strats with tons of adepts. Another peice of advice to deal with scouting in tvp us to be proactive, if you always initiate first you both get extra Intel and limit ps options. You can play a totally defensive reactionary style like Ty but it's a lot harder to master imo. Vs Zerg well it's harder there are some things though How many queens? If lots they are droning slower and taking a third(or nudist allining) if few it's either some kind of early attack, or they are just greedy. How many lings does your reaper see when it reaches there base if more than 4-6 they might be building up for a ling bane bust On some maps you can send the reaper back into the main to check the lair timing. If they have a lair before third it's Mutas's,nydus or less commonly burrowed roach rush. Think about the amount of gas Zerg seems to have spent on thier army, if they have 2-2 and +1 mutas and 30+ banes in the midgame they probably will have a slower hive if instead they seem to be cuting gas units you neeeeed to pressure or gglisks will pop out and kill you. check if it roach raveger or long bane, vs ling bane you need mines and once mutas are out you need to drop less and conserve units for a big pre hive push. If it's roach raveger you need to drop constantly and build tankivacs. Tvt well there is so much variety I still have not figured it all out. Generally just try to predict your oponents build based on when they take the nat and the current meta The odd thing about it and the reason I say to rely on meta is that generally there will be times when you have some idea what your opponent is doing, like did they go hellion reaper, did they three rax, did they reactor marines, did they expo fast or slow. But if you don't scan or slip a reaper in you often won't know if it's banshees 1-1-1 push, marine mine drop, marine hellion drop, cyclone expo, ect. A lot of tvt comes down to picking a build that's good vs the meta build and then playing well. | ||
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Nightmarjoo
United States3360 Posts
Knowing what to scout for requires some basic knowledge of what you're vulnerable to or how the opposing race thinks. If you know what their options are you can learn how to identify them, and then you can either do research or guess-and-check to come up with solutions to problematic scenarios. Watch your own replays and watch your enemy instead of yourself to learn how to scout. Scouting is about filling in the blanks in your knowledge so that you can eliminate possibilities you'd otherwise have to prepare for. So the more familiar you are with how your opponent should look at a given time the more information you can garner from scouting by comparing what you expect to what you see. It's hard to give accurate specific answers because I don't know what builds you're using or what knowledge you already have about each matchup. Sometimes you're looking for easy stuff like how many geysers they're mining from, how much gas they've mined vs how much gas you've seen them spend, what their 3rd base timing is, what their unit count is at a certain time, etc. Other times you're looking for what you don't see, like a lack of a 2nd or 3rd pylon in protoss' base by a certain time, or a lack of a tech choice, or the lack of continual worker production. Other times you're looking for behavior-- how aggressive or conservative are they using the units they're showing you, how aggressively they're trying to deny scouting, how interested in scouting you they are, etc. Biggest thing is you need to know what your build and unit count/composition is capable of handling at a certain point and what it's vulnerable for-- you don't need to adapt to things you're already prepared for, but you also don't want to prepare for every single possibility in the game. | ||
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