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[G] kcdc's PvT

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kcdc
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States2311 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-06 20:36:48
March 09 2012 21:19 GMT
#1
Background:

I win about 75% of my PvT's against equally skilled opponents using this build. Checking through my match history, I know I've won at least my last 10 consecutive PvT's. I'm not a pro by any means--to give you an idea of my level of play, my ladder opponents range from Top 10 Masters to high GM on the NA server. I usually play against people with double or triple my APM which goes a long way toward explaining why my PvP is so bad.

Also, I know that some people get annoyed when guide-writers put their handles in the topic line. Please understand that I mean the title in the most modest way--this is a guide for how I personally play PvT. It's a general PvT guide, so I don't have a good descriptive title to give it. I know that some of the stuff that's in the guide is pretty standard. For example, I'm not breaking any ground with my 1-1-1 defense. I'm just putting forth a general PvT guide that covers most of my decision making for a PvT match from start to finish.

Opening Build Order:

13 gate (3x chronoboost on probes at start)
15 gas
18 core (send scout on 4 player maps)
19 zealot
22 pylon (send scout on 2 player maps)
23 stalker and WG tech (3 chrono total on WG tech)
27 nexus (at 26 food, rally nexus to natural. The probe will reach the natural right on time)
28 gateway
28 sentry
31 pylon

This is a nice, economically aggressive but safe 1 gate FE. It gets you more economy than most comparably safe expand builds.

Here's where we hit our first branching. Your scouting probe should have found T's base by now, but be attentive with your scouting and make sure to keep your probe alive! Walk your zealot toward T's base and rally your stalker to your zealot. Send your probe into T's natural just ahead of your zealot and stalker. The probe will probably die, but it's better than losing your stalker to a marauder. If there's just a few marines holding the ramp at your natural, perhaps with a bunker, run your zealot past these to see if there's a CC. Sacrificing a zealot is annoying, but it's worth it to confirm the gasless FE.

Branches:

If you see a marauder or any other signs of an early attack:

31 gateway
32 zealot (1 chronoboost)
34 assimilator

The third gateway goes down at 5:20. This 3 gate times out surprisingly smoothly and can be used for defense or offense. The second zealot (started at 32 supply), the 2nd gate and WG research all finish at exactly 5:50 if you did everything perfectly. Convert the gates to WG's, and warp in 2 units at 6:00. (In most of my games, it winds up being 6:10 or slightly later because I don't macro perfectly) The third gate finishes at 6:25 and is a WG at 6:35 which lines up perfectly for a 3 unit warp in at 6:35. This gives you 9 gateway units by 6:40 which is 100% guaranteed to be stronger than whatever Terran can have at your base by this time.

The only thing that can give you trouble is letting T get bunkers before 6:40. A bunker takes 40 seconds to complete and most Terran pressure won't hit your base until 6:10 or later, so you'll have plenty of time to clean up with either your 6 unit timing at 6:10 or your 9 unit timing at 6:40. Just make sure to be aware of any sneakily building SCV's near your nexus before the army shows up. If T does a fast tech lab build to defend an early bunker with concussive shell marauders, pull 4 probes and kill the push at 5:40.

Whenever you feel comfortable, you can get a robo and go for either the CreatorPrime double forge style, an immortal push, or a colossus push. Alternatively, if you think T is expanding behind the push, you can add 2-4 (5-7 total) more gates and go for a gateway counter. Another option is to get a forge for +1 armor and go chargelot/archon. I don't recommend teching straight to storm quickly as it may come out too late and get you killed against a medivac all-in follow-up.

If you see nothing at the natural and signs point to 1-1-1:

32 zealot (1 chronoboost)
34 robo
34 assimilator

Pull your troops back to your natural. Use your 2 unit warp-in at 6:00 to warp 2 stalkers in to defend your mineral line in your main. Remember to actually put the stalkers IN the mineral line because it's going to be really annoying when hellions drop somewhere you don't expect and get free shots while your stalkers walk over. Build pylons at the normal times, but be sure to spread them to spot incoming drops and banshees. Send a probe to monitor T's natural, and chronoboost 2 observers as soon as your robo finishes.

Take your third gas, and continue warping in stalkers and zealots. You want to prioritize stalkers as gas allows until you have about 6 for harass-defense. After ~6 stalkers, you want to favor zealots as they're better for defeating the eventual push. Keep 3 stalkers in each mineral line until the push comes. Get 3 more gates (total of 5) and cut probe production entirely when you reach ~38 workers.

If it's a normal 1-1-1 with tanks, get an immortal after 2 observers and then spend your next 200 gas on a robo support bay. Having a colossus is important for beating late all-ins at 12:30 or later because the marine ball will get too big with too little surface area to beat it consistently with just zealots+guardian shield. If the push leaves earlier, you can just cancel the support bay to get out a couple extra units. Pull some probes off of gas as you'll mostly need zealots from this point on.

If it's a 2-port banshee all-in, get a forge and a stargate. Cannon the crap out of your natural, get some phoenixes, and then get a support bay if he's just chilling outside your natural. If you have enough cannons, he can't push without tanks, and you'll have a colossus by the time he can start sieging your cannons.

Kill whatever push he sends your way and collect your victory.

If it's cloaked banshee into expansion instead of an all-in, do a 2 colossus timing with thermal lance.

If you scout gasless FE:

31 forge
32 zealot
34 assimilator
35 assimilator (third assimilator is obviously at natural)

At 6:10, warp in a zealot and a sentry and start +1 armor. Fill 2nd and 3rd assimilators. Continue hitting your warp-gate cycles right on time--you're staying on 2 gates for a LONG time and you can't afford to cut production. Your 6:40 warp-in cycle will also be a zealot and a sentry, and then all subsequent warp-ins will be zealots only. Constantly build probes, zealots, pylons and always keep your forge chronoboosted.

You should have your first free 150 minerals at approximately 7:20--build a twilight council and start +1 weapons.

Sit your zealot/sentry army at your natural and keep your stalker active on the map. Hold a watchtower and scout his front. If you don't see a marauder by 8 minutes, get a robo because he could be getting 2-base cloaked banshees.

Note that having the stalker out on the map is important for scouting naked barracks marine pushes. You can get a few potshots with the stalker, and then pull back to crush the marines with zealots, forcefields and guardian shield. Assuming you haven't missed your warp-in cycles, as long as you see it coming to get your forcefields ready, you'll crush the push and take a huge lead. Off of 2 gate zealot production, I've defended as many as 6 naked rax of marines, and for smaller 4 rax pushes, I'm somtimes able to clean up the marines without losing a unit. I win basically 100% of the time when T does one of these misguided attacks.

When the twilight council finishes, build a templar archives and take your 4th gas. Start charge at 200 gas and chronoboost it twice. Start storm with your next 200 gas and chronoboost it to completion. Spend any extra chronoboost on your forge. Your next 450 gas will go to 2 templar and +2 armor--get them in order each time you reach 150 gas.

You will have charge, storm, 2 templar with 75 energy, and +1/+1 with +2 armor on the way by 10:30 or earlier. This timing is very important because the 2 medivac timing that every Terran does off of gasless FE hits at about 10:30. If you have your tech and upgrades done on time, assuming decent control, you'll be able to crush the push solidly.

Note that the spending between 8 and 10 minutes is very gas-heavy. This leaves you with a surplus of minerals which you will spend on gateways and a third nexus in some order. The third nexus will be dropped between approximately 10:00 and 10:30.

In general, I recommend getting to 6 gateways as you warp in your 1st 2 templar and then starting your third nexus. This is good on a map like Shakuras Plateau where the third base is kind of far away, and it gets the nexus started shortly before 10:30. Alternatively, you can take your third nexus after your 4th gate which gets the nexus timing into the lower 10's. This is good for maps with a relatively close third like Cloud Kingdom. On Entombed Valley, you can actually take the third nexus off of 2 gates under 10 minutes.

After you have 6 gates and your third base started, build a robo when resources allow, and then add 4 more gates up to a total of 10. By about 13 minutes, you should be out on the map holding a central watch tower with 1 templar in each base for drop defense. Take 2 probes and build pylons all over the map. 1 probe should build probes in areas that will be useful to reinforce your army and the other should build pylons all over for map vision.

When your robo finishes, build an observer and then a warp prism. The warp prism is there to distract your opponent's focus so that you can get storms off on his main army before he EMP's. Your army at 12-14 minutes should be out on the map threatening to attack before the prism hits the field, and you'll be plenty strong to attack if you can gain a good position (try sneaking a few zealots around to his third to pull his troops out of position and distract his focus), but the warp prism can go a long way toward winning you a good jump for an attack. I recommend putting 1 HT and 1 probe in the prism so that you can support your chargelot drop with a storm and you can beef up your warp-in options by dropping pylons in his bases.

This part of the game will feel hectic. You'll often find yourself dropping his main, attacking his third or fighting over a watch tower, and defending your bases from drops all at the same time.

While you're doing all of this, make sure to start +2 weapons, +3 armor and then +3 weapons on time. It's very easy to forget to keep upgrading, so don't be afraid to queue them up ahead of time. It's bad to queue, but it's worse to not upgrade.

After starting +2 weapons, you'll want to think about taking a fourth and adding a robo support bay. The timing on the support bay will depend on the game. In general, it will come while +2 weapons is researching and about the same time that you take your 4th base. If he has a lot of ghosts and you can't get much done with HT, get colossi before your 4th. If your fights are going well and you're thinning out his ghost count, you can delay colossi to take a fourth while you punish his low ghost count with zealot/archon.

For the colossus transition, I don't recommend waiting till you see too many ghosts and then making a 180 degree turn to double robo colossus. I tried that quite a bit, but I found myself dying a lot just before the colossi came out. A smoother transition with single robo colossus production while you're still doing decently well with zealot/archon/templar is much more effective. That way, you'll find that you just have 2 colossi sitting at home when you need to defend a big push, or you'll bring those 2 colossi to the front at just the right time to tip the scales for the last fight.

Weaknesses:

I don't think there are any hard counters to this build. General PvT weaknesses still apply tho.

If a Terran does a harass variant that I'm not familiar with, sometimes that will knock me off my game. Really well-executed 111's are always hard to stop.

And of course, a really good multi-tasking Terran will beat me and my 100 APM.

Also, Shattered Temple is a little too small to do my 1 gate FE safely, so there are some pressure builds that counter this build on small maps.

How does this build compare/contrast with other PvT builds already posted on the strategy forum?

CreatorPrime PvT:

This build is basically the polar opposite of the Turtle Toss double forge style. If you're used to CreatorPrime style PvT, you'll find that this build will put you out on the map more with an ability to set the pace for the match. You'll enjoy how much easier it will be to defend drops, but you'll miss the 18 minute a-move at 200/200 with +3/+3 where the Terran just dies.

Fast Third with blink/charge

These builds aren't terribly far apart in terms of general strategy. The Fast Third build gets a third nexus about 2 minutes earlier, but has greatly delayed upgrades and templar tech. If you're used to the Fast Third style, you'll enjoy my build's relative strength against the 2 medivac timing and how the earlier upgrades and storms let you push the Terran around in the 10-15 minute window, but you'll miss the sheer size of the force that you can get off of a third nexus at 8 minutes (or sometimes even earlier).

Reversible Jacket Build--aka Templar + Warp Prism Style

My current strategy steals its early build order when responding to gasless FE from the Reversible Jacket build. The builds have obvious similarities, but my current strategy differs in that it responds to Terran gas builds with more conventional responses, and against gasless FE, it gets a later robo, leans less heavily on warp prism tactics, and skips the dark shrine in favor of a stronger army with earlier colossi and more high templar and archons. If you're used to my Reversible Jacket build, you'll find that this strategy more easily asserts map control at ~12 minutes, is more able to win fights when Terran is not distracted, and doesn't flop over and die if Terran holds your pressure and counters with a bunch of ghosts. But you'll miss the sheer joy of killing 30 workers and then watching your dark templar strut into the Terran base just as he calls down 6 MULES....

How to play against this style as Terran:

This build is designed to shut down drops efficiently so that P can take map control and play aggressively. The common TvP metagame revolves around doing damage with drops to a turtling Protoss player, and since chargelot/templar shuts down drops really hard, this build takes the bite out of Terran's greatest strength.

Upgrades are the key to beating this strategy. I get a 5:20 forge and constantly chronoboost upgrades, but I stay on 1 forge for the whole game. A fast-upgrading Terran can beat me to 3-3. Matching or beating me on upgrades enables Terran to defend my drops efficiently and contest map control. Also, a timely third base is critical. If Terran doesn't have his third up by 12 or 13 minutes when I'm pushing out on the map, he's in trouble.

Replays:

http://drop.sc/129139 -- botched my z/s poke, but held 2 rax comfortably anyway. transitioned to zealot/archon
http://drop.sc/129138 -- botched my z/s even worse, then held naked 6 rax. +1 armor makes zealots invincible vs marines
http://drop.sc/129137 -- by-the-book win vs gasless FE
http://drop.sc/129136 -- didn't hold tower and misread reactor 2 rax as 111. lost more than I should have as a result, but won with 2 colossus timing
http://drop.sc/129135 -- again misread reactor 2 rax as 111 and lost more than I should have as a result. did good econ damage with immortal timing. turned into a crazy game. highly recommended for entertainment value.
http://drop.sc/129134 -- by-the-book win vs gasless FE
http://drop.sc/129133 -- vs gasless FE. botched my approach to his base and lost my whole army at 12 minutes. won the game 2 minutes later with the send some zealots to his third and the storm down his army when he looks away trick.
http://drop.sc/129132 -- vs gasless FE. a little sloppy, but a win's a win
http://drop.sc/129146 -- vs gasless FE. didn't play well and was fighting lag, but came out on top.
AirbladeOrange
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States2558 Posts
March 09 2012 21:39 GMT
#2
Cool guide. When you're warping in units right after you take your natural expansion, what combination do you get? Are mostly stalkers better against a gasless expo and more variety if there are marauders? Sometimes I feel safe once my expo gets up and running but lose so some stim timing with more bio than I expect.
TangSC
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Canada1866 Posts
March 09 2012 21:39 GMT
#3
This build seems pretty strong and safe, and I like your response to the 1/1/1. Thanks for the guide kcdc!
Coaching www.allin-academy.com | Team www.All-Inspiration.com
Smipims
Profile Joined December 2010
United States61 Posts
March 09 2012 21:40 GMT
#4
Another kcdc guide? I love you! You and cecil are the reason I'm not awful.
Smipims
kcdc
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States2311 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-09 21:46:51
March 09 2012 21:46 GMT
#5
On March 10 2012 06:39 AirbladeOrange wrote:
Cool guide. When you're warping in units right after you take your natural expansion, what combination do you get? Are mostly stalkers better against a gasless expo and more variety if there are marauders? Sometimes I feel safe once my expo gets up and running but lose so some stim timing with more bio than I expect.


It depends what T is doing. Against gasless FE, I want 1 stalker (which I already have), 3 sentries, and the rest zealots. Against 111, I want stalkers first to defend harass, 1 sentry for guardian shield (which I already have), and zealots with whatever resources I have left.

Against early pressure, it really varies depending on what's coming at me and how much time I have. If I think I can get away with sentries, I'll get them early to start building energy. If I'm in big trouble, I'll make stalkers for DPS and pull probes to tank. If I think an extra zealot will save me from having to pull probes, I'll get a zealot and then stalkers.
Teoita
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Italy12237 Posts
March 09 2012 21:52 GMT
#6
Out of curiosity, why do you recommend going templar instead of colossus only against 1rax no gas fe?
ModeratorProtoss all-ins are like a wok. You can throw whatever you want in there and it will turn out alright.
Forbidden17
Profile Joined December 2011
666 Posts
March 09 2012 21:55 GMT
#7
Sorry a bit of a silly question but I thought your original 27nexus used 3 chronos on warpgate, 1 on sentry, 1 on zealot to line up for everything for finish at 5:50?

You posed 4 chronos on warpgate and none on the sentry in the OP, just wondering if there's something else significantly altered that I'm not seeing
kcdc
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States2311 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-09 22:26:43
March 09 2012 22:02 GMT
#8
On March 10 2012 06:52 Teoita wrote:
Out of curiosity, why do you recommend going templar instead of colossus only against 1rax no gas fe?


Against 111, you need to worry about cloak. Against pressure builds, it helps to have 3 gates to defend. After defending with 3 gates, you could go templar, but I think your timing would be risky. If T goes for quick medivacs (he can always skip his expansion), you might get caught with your pants down with 500/700 invested in charge, storm and 2 templar with 30 seconds to go before the investment pays off. I hate taking chances after I defend an attack and know I'm ahead.
Teoita
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Italy12237 Posts
March 09 2012 22:05 GMT
#9
I see, follow up question then if you don't mind.

Why do you feel like you need storm to defend the medivac timing? Shouldn't charge, +1 and maybe like 2 immortals be enough?
ModeratorProtoss all-ins are like a wok. You can throw whatever you want in there and it will turn out alright.
kcdc
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States2311 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-10 17:13:33
March 09 2012 22:07 GMT
#10
On March 10 2012 06:55 Forbidden17 wrote:
Sorry a bit of a silly question but I thought your original 27nexus used 3 chronos on warpgate, 1 on sentry, 1 on zealot to line up for everything for finish at 5:50?

You posed 4 chronos on warpgate and none on the sentry in the OP, just wondering if there's something else significantly altered that I'm not seeing


I'm pretty sure that what I have posted here is the most optimal version of the 27 nexus with sentry opening. It appears that I may have refined the opening slightly since I posted the opening last November.

3 chrono on probes, 4 on WG tech, 1 on 2nd zealot sounds right. I'll double check when I get a chance.

Edit: I was wrong. 3, 3, 1 with 1 left over for +1 armor is right.
kcdc
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States2311 Posts
March 09 2012 22:13 GMT
#11
On March 10 2012 07:05 Teoita wrote:
I see, follow up question then if you don't mind.

Why do you feel like you need storm to defend the medivac timing? Shouldn't charge, +1 and maybe like 2 immortals be enough?


If you don't have storm or colossi, you're counting on positioning and forcefields to defend. Chargelots don't synergize with immortals well at all since the immortals can't keep up and won't do damage. Chargelot/archon works okay and I think you could get that out in time. It's up to you--I just think colossus tech is the safe way to go when my timings get screwed up by early pressure.
Flonomenalz
Profile Joined May 2011
Nigeria3519 Posts
March 09 2012 22:51 GMT
#12
This seems really, really crisp and neat.

I can't wait for replays.
I love crazymoving
Xanatoss
Profile Joined May 2010
Germany539 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-09 23:28:18
March 09 2012 22:57 GMT
#13
I am using kcdc's 1 Gate FE almost every PvT and can highly recommend it.
Its very resilient, versatile and cuts almost no probes.

Another branch I play very often against gasless FE is still going for the Robo but skipping Observers and going straight for a prism while adding 2 more Gates. I then drop his mineral line(s) while pressuring his Front with my initial units and potential reinforcements from a proxy pylon. Currently most Terrans are not used to this kind of fast drop and botch their army distribution, allowing me to do damage at the weaker spot with additional warpins.
Anyways the main reason to do this is not so much damage but the fact that I can go straight into Colossi + single Forge and assemble a really strong Followup and establish my third base.

On March 10 2012 07:07 kcdc wrote:
3 chrono on probes, 4 on WG tech, 1 on 2nd zealot sounds right. I'll double check when I get a chance.


Just checked. Its 3 on probes, 3 on WG, 1 on Gateway during Sentry or 2nd Zealot. 8th CB would be rdy only at 6:00.
The chair slowly turns around. You see his face, but it can't be. He's not supposed to be here. Not him. Not a Protoss. Not THAT Protoss. MC says, "Hi Greg, long time no see." You back slowly out of the booth. But you can't. It's already forcefielded.
kcdc
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States2311 Posts
March 09 2012 23:23 GMT
#14
On March 10 2012 07:57 Xanatoss wrote:
I am using kcdc's 1 Gate FE almost every PvT and can highly recommend it.
Its very resilient, versatile and cuts almost no probes.

Another branch I play very often against gasless FE is still going for the Robo but skipping Observers and going straight for a prism while adding 2 more Gates. I then drop his mineral line(s) while pressuring his Front with my initial units and potential reinforcements from a proxy pylon. Currently most Terrans are not used to this kind of fast drop and botch their army distribution, allowing me to do damage at the weaker spot with additional warpins.
Anyways the main reason to do this is not so much damage but the fact that I can go straight into Colossi + single Forge and assemble a really strong Followup and establish my third base.

Edit: Nvm my 2nd Part. Did not consider your late scout.


I don't think the scout timing is a problem for that robo branch. Unless you need a robo before 5:30, you can confirm gasless expo before you need to commit.
Strivers
Profile Joined November 2010
United States358 Posts
March 09 2012 23:26 GMT
#15
Always nice guides from you. This build is similar to mines that branched off of HuK's but I'm sure this is more tight. Should have waited until your replays were ready though.
These little dudes really like the blue stuff..
Xanatoss
Profile Joined May 2010
Germany539 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-09 23:36:01
March 09 2012 23:34 GMT
#16
On March 10 2012 08:23 kcdc wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 10 2012 07:57 Xanatoss wrote:
I am using kcdc's 1 Gate FE almost every PvT and can highly recommend it.
Its very resilient, versatile and cuts almost no probes.

Another branch I play very often against gasless FE is still going for the Robo but skipping Observers and going straight for a prism while adding 2 more Gates. I then drop his mineral line(s) while pressuring his Front with my initial units and potential reinforcements from a proxy pylon. Currently most Terrans are not used to this kind of fast drop and botch their army distribution, allowing me to do damage at the weaker spot with additional warpins.
Anyways the main reason to do this is not so much damage but the fact that I can go straight into Colossi + single Forge and assemble a really strong Followup and establish my third base.

Edit: Nvm my 2nd Part. Did not consider your late scout.


I don't think the scout timing is a problem for that robo branch. Unless you need a robo before 5:30, you can confirm gasless expo before you need to commit.


Tbh I am a bit afraid of these superearly unit-coordinations because I botch my opening most of the time when I concentrate on not losing the z/s when poking him.
So I get the robo every game blindly and just adapt what I build out of it depening on what I see with my scouting probe from my opponent when he leaves his ramp.
2 Rax -> Immo
nothing -> Obs
naked Marines/ Lowground-Bunker -> Prism
The chair slowly turns around. You see his face, but it can't be. He's not supposed to be here. Not him. Not a Protoss. Not THAT Protoss. MC says, "Hi Greg, long time no see." You back slowly out of the booth. But you can't. It's already forcefielded.
kcdc
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States2311 Posts
March 10 2012 01:18 GMT
#17
On March 10 2012 07:05 Teoita wrote:
I see, follow up question then if you don't mind.

Why do you feel like you need storm to defend the medivac timing? Shouldn't charge, +1 and maybe like 2 immortals be enough?


When I looked through my replays, I had one where I defended a 2-rax with 3 gates and went straight into chargelot/archon with a single forge. I couldn't have had storm in time, but chargelot/archon certainly worked well in that situation.
darkcloud8282
Profile Joined December 2010
Canada776 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-10 03:02:16
March 10 2012 03:01 GMT
#18
It seems you scout really late with this build though.. how do you hold proxy 11-11? I mean 1 rax is proxied.
kcdc
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States2311 Posts
March 10 2012 03:20 GMT
#19
On March 10 2012 12:01 darkcloud8282 wrote:
It seems you scout really late with this build though.. how do you hold proxy 11-11? I mean 1 rax is proxied.


You know this isn't a ZvT guide, right?

If you're talking about silly stuff like rallying the first marines and bunkering the nexus TvZ style, the answer is micro your stalker. But nobody does that. If you're talking about a 2-rax marine SCV all-in, cancel your nexus, wall the top of your ramp, and shoot over the wall with stalkers. If you watch my reps, you'll see I leave a pylon at the top of the ramp in every game. This is partially so that I can wall off easily if I see a train of SCVs heading my way.
Moosegills
Profile Joined March 2011
United States558 Posts
March 10 2012 03:29 GMT
#20
On March 10 2012 12:01 darkcloud8282 wrote:
It seems you scout really late with this build though.. how do you hold proxy 11-11? I mean 1 rax is proxied.

Hate to be that guy but that is a pretty irrelevant build tvp. Only reason you would ever do it is to blind counter someone that is known to nexus first.
#1 HuK fan, zerg player playing for http://www.complexitygaming.com - @coL_Moosegills
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