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On February 29 2012 00:27 Chaggi wrote: I presplit vs banelings, it's really easy too. I just patrol everyone, and then I hold position. Basically spreads them out and then I move clumps at a time
Can you explain this a little more? Thanks!
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General rule of thumb, use Hold position when retreating, use stop or attack-move when attacking. Stop and attack-move makes units out of range move closer to the enemy, which is good when you want to be close to your enemy, but bad when you want to get away.
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On February 29 2012 08:12 shizna wrote: against BC's i would spam right click to get your vikings 'stacked' outside BC range, then use stop/hold position to fire a volley, then spam right click a little further away to stay out of range etc.
i think some of the originalbeast's methods are unneccessarily complex...
stutter step - you'd be better off with stutter step if you just right click > H > right click > H... the units out of range won't have time to get in range in the 0.5 seconds between your marine attack 'stepping' so a-move is lowering your dps...
medivac - why press L and click on unit, when you can just right click on the unit? two button presses versus one button press. clicking on the unit portrait seems like the best way to drop though - one button press versus two button presses.
I use attack move when I stutter step, and L when I drop because I taught myself everything I know about micro so I guess I have my own methods of doing things. I would say my control is above average though
The amount of button presses involved really insn't a factor when you micro consider your doing things at 300 action per minute, so seriously who gives a faack if you have to press a button 1 more time or something like this.
On March 01 2012 00:51 whiskypriest wrote:Show nested quote +On February 29 2012 00:27 Chaggi wrote: I presplit vs banelings, it's really easy too. I just patrol everyone, and then I hold position. Basically spreads them out and then I move clumps at a time Can you explain this a little more? Thanks!
When you patrol units they don't move in a straight line between patrol paths they spread out a little to avoid running into each other, so when you hold position them they are kinda spread, and you can just unclump the rest by hand
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Q: How do you micro terran like the koreans A: Practice like the koreans (intensity and focus training)
Thats the shortest real answer. Koreans are known for practicing alot and willing to focus train on small details again and again regardless of it being tedius and boring to do the same thing over and over. Theory means little without practice, and most theory you can figure out yourself just by doing the micro a ton of times, you´ll eventually notice whats better when.
PS. Most kiting and stutterstepping is done with s(top) and not h(old) or a(ttack).
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in terms of stutter step, at the highest level, you only micro back the small group of units being targeted (usually by banelings or zealots ) so the other marines that aren't targeted are firing. extremely hard yes, but it ups the DPS of your marines by an insane amount
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i have a cool little micro trick for marines vs banshee if you have a medivac that i dont think many people use (if any) what you do is u load up ur marines in the medivac, and u get ur medivac to chase the banshee and u unload on your medivac so you can carpet your marines across the banshee. this can be helpful if you are doing a marine hellion medivac attack and the opponent gets a banshee
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Thought id chime in regarding the marine micro vs lings and banelings. The most optimal way really depends on the number of banelings he has. If its a relatively small engagement and he only had 3, maybe 4 banelings its probably better to focus them down as you should be able to kill all of them before they get to your marines. But if they have more than 4 baneling's its going to be extremely tough to focus down all of the banelings (assuming equals army sizes and that they have ling support). So I guess a rule of thumb I follow is in large engagements split the marines, and in earlier engagements with few banelings try to focus them down.
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On March 01 2012 21:39 heeheehoohoo wrote: i have a cool little micro trick for marines vs banshee if you have a medivac that i dont think many people use (if any) what you do is u load up ur marines in the medivac, and u get ur medivac to chase the banshee and u unload on your medivac so you can carpet your marines across the banshee. this can be helpful if you are doing a marine hellion medivac attack and the opponent gets a banshee
I don't really see how this is any better than just stutter stepping toward the banshee and picking up injured marines with the medivac
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On March 02 2012 02:12 smaug81243 wrote: Thought id chime in regarding the marine micro vs lings and banelings. The most optimal way really depends on the number of banelings he has. If its a relatively small engagement and he only had 3, maybe 4 banelings its probably better to focus them down as you should be able to kill all of them before they get to your marines. But if they have more than 4 baneling's its going to be extremely tough to focus down all of the banelings (assuming equals army sizes and that they have ling support). So I guess a rule of thumb I follow is in large engagements split the marines, and in earlier engagements with few banelings try to focus them down.
yeah I think thats probably the best way of doing it.
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On March 02 2012 03:31 OriginalBeast wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2012 21:39 heeheehoohoo wrote: i have a cool little micro trick for marines vs banshee if you have a medivac that i dont think many people use (if any) what you do is u load up ur marines in the medivac, and u get ur medivac to chase the banshee and u unload on your medivac so you can carpet your marines across the banshee. this can be helpful if you are doing a marine hellion medivac attack and the opponent gets a banshee I don't really see how this is any better than just stutter stepping toward the banshee and picking up injured marines with the medivac
the medivac moves faster than the marines I think.
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Kinda ironic OP, asking foreigners how to micro like koreans terrans, while there's only like 5-10 korean terrans in the world who can micro like that, and the rest can't. This also plays a big part in why non top10 korean T's aren't successful btw. If you meant it more in like, "share some of your tips/techniques", then you should just watch some good streams IMO.
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Wait, when you stutter step, obviously pressing stop is enough right? What is the difference between stop, a move, and hold position when stutter stepping? I dont understand
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The reason those guys can micro like that is cuz they play all day, every day, and if you wan't to do the same that's what your going to have to do, no way around it.
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On March 02 2012 03:31 OriginalBeast wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2012 21:39 heeheehoohoo wrote: i have a cool little micro trick for marines vs banshee if you have a medivac that i dont think many people use (if any) what you do is u load up ur marines in the medivac, and u get ur medivac to chase the banshee and u unload on your medivac so you can carpet your marines across the banshee. this can be helpful if you are doing a marine hellion medivac attack and the opponent gets a banshee I don't really see how this is any better than just stutter stepping toward the banshee and picking up injured marines with the medivac
Because medivacs are faster than unstimmed marines and you can do guaranteed damage against the banshee while minimizing incoming damage...
obviously if your marines had stim you'd just chase it. Common sense.
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On March 02 2012 10:46 DontLoseSightOfIt wrote: Wait, when you stutter step, obviously pressing stop is enough right? What is the difference between stop, a move, and hold position when stutter stepping? I dont understand a move lets you to pick off your target unit. If you press stop, it just fires to whichever is closest.
to be honest, I think most koreans use mouse click and a+move to stutterstep their bioball. I could be wrong though.
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On March 01 2012 03:28 yoona2012 wrote: Q: How do you micro terran like the koreans A: Practice like the koreans (intensity and focus training)
Thats the shortest real answer. Koreans are known for practicing alot and willing to focus train on small details again and again regardless of it being tedius and boring to do the same thing over and over. Theory means little without practice, and most theory you can figure out yourself just by doing the micro a ton of times, you´ll eventually notice whats better when.
PS. Most kiting and stutterstepping is done with s(top) and not h(old) or a(ttack).
I've been playing Terran since Beta. In regards to stutter stepping I have used the attack command. But recently I have switched over to utilizing the stop command instead which I feel is much more effective.
I also tried using the hold command and IMO I have no idea why people would use it. If you use the default hotkeys, using the H key to stutter step just honestly feels retarded, especially when you are trying to macro inbetween it.
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I find that medivac+marine vs banshee discussion fairly hilarious. It´s very standard to scan/scout banshee openings before the banshee pops. If you had a starport to make a medivac and scouted a banshee opening, for the love of god.... cancel that medivac and start a viking instead.
@fiveoh
Using a instead of s requires more apm for practically doing the same thing since a requires a target and s does not, so obviously s is superior. In case of ling/banelings and you need to focus fire, you´d still not use a, but rather just right click the banes. As for banshee/viking micro, i still use s and i wouldnt use h. the s key placement on the keyboard is more natural, allowing for quicker access and you´ll want to move the banshee as soon as it gets it shot off, so it really doesnt matter if you use s or h. Hold is just to block chokes (from dt, hellion, lings etc) or to prevent the AI mechanics of all your marines suddenly charging into siege death or similar, lured by a few cheap units.
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On March 02 2012 20:28 yoona2012 wrote: I find that medivac+marine vs banshee discussion fairly hilarious. It´s very standard to scan/scout banshee openings before the banshee pops. If you had a starport to make a medivac and scouted a banshee opening, for the love of god.... cancel that medivac and start a viking instead.
@fiveoh
Using a instead of s requires more apm for practically doing the same thing since a requires a target and s does not, so obviously s is superior. In case of ling/banelings and you need to focus fire, you´d still not use a, but rather just right click the banes. As for banshee/viking micro, i still use s and i wouldnt use h. the s key placement on the keyboard is more natural, allowing for quicker access and you´ll want to move the banshee as soon as it gets it shot off, so it really doesnt matter if you use s or h. Hold is just to block chokes (from dt, hellion, lings etc) or to prevent the AI mechanics of all your marines suddenly charging into siege death or similar, lured by a few cheap units.
Depends on the opening if you can scout the banshee opening or not. Many openings need every MULE they can get to not die against other 1 base pressures besides banshee, so you have to rely on reacting fast and saving a scan or 2 at the right times instead of scanning their base.
edit: also scanning their base doesn't mean that you are guaranteed to see enough to be certain that its a banshee opening.
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On March 02 2012 23:02 Bommes wrote: Depends on the opening if you can scout the banshee opening or not. Many openings need every MULE they can get to not die against other 1 base pressures besides banshee, so you have to rely on reacting fast and saving a scan or 2 at the right times instead of scanning their base.
edit: also scanning their base doesn't mean that you are guaranteed to see enough to be certain that its a banshee opening.
standard tvt: depot scv scout if you see gas > click geyser and see if its gas first or 13 gas and in both cases need a 2nd scout or scan. You usually scan 2nd time your orbital has energy or 3rd time if you´re being greedy. Not scanning (unless you got a hellion, reaper or some other sort scout or confirmation of what your adversary is doing) is playing blindly, which is something you absolutely cant afford to do in tvt unless you´re certain you can hold whatever is coming your way.
Also 1 mule doesn´t instantly grant you 240/270 minerals. It takes 90 ingame seconds to get to that amount and terran can easily defend all ins with bunker/tank if they know whats coming. The danger is not knowing whats coming. You can die to so many different terran openings if you dont scout whats coming at you (banshee cloak/reaper hellion medivac/early tank marine push, blueflame drop etc.)
If 1 mule was as gamechanging and important as you imply, then there´d never be 1 rax expands in tvt, however as we all know, it´s extremely common to 1 rax expand in tvt (at least in higher level leagues). This is because bunkers and siegetanks makes it extremely hard to push through the front, and thus alot of TvT ends up being more a game of harrassment and positional play rather than a game of who can make more workers without dying (zvz and to some extent pvp).
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One of the common forms of the stutter step is the patrol method vs zerg. You patrol backwards then split manually afterward. This way, when the banelings get in range of your marines the ones moving backwards from patrol automatically shoot and the ones being split may be chased or just reach the intended destination and attack afterwards. Then you just micro and manual splits from there. I've heard MKP uses this method but im not 100% sure of that.
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