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I really don't know what my title should be, but here's my question. What's the optimal way to queue/make supply depots?
A) Select "x" workers -> Build "x" Depots -> Shift Click Minerals
B) Select "x" workers -> Build "x" Depots -> Wait for "Idle Workers" portrait to come up -> Control Select Idle Workers -> Shift Click Minerals
I currently do A now, but I'm thinking of doing B after analyzing some replays from MVP (my hero). I find A inefficient because of mid-game drops and micros. The time and focus is higher in A than B.
But I'm curious what my Terran brothers do, and if I even should take the leap from A to B.
EDIT 1: Clearing it up.
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im pretty sure 99% of the terrans utilize A. It seems tedious to wait for the idle portraits to come up if theres a ton of stuff going on. What you probably saw was that, when theres too much stuff to do, players forget or choose to ignore to shift queue back to minerals because number 1, their economy is so damn good that one scv wont matter, number 2, they need to immediately focus their apm on something else much more important.
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If by queuing you mean having workers build multiple supply depots in a row, you should not be doing this, because you will end up with minerals tied up in a building that won't even start constructing for a while.
If you mean just having them return to mining after, I don't think it takes me any significant amount of time to shift-click the minerals. If anything I think it takes more focus to execute B, because you have to pay attention to when they are done building.
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I'm doing A almost every game with the following mindset: If i'm on 1 base, i build supply depots one by one, if i'm on 2 bases, i build two depots and so on until i reach 4 bases where i can easily build enough depot to reach 200 if i'm not already max.
Sometimes i'm doing B but a problem arise when you are counting on the idle worker icon as you can't use ctrl+F1 to select any other idle worker.
I know some people love to do B because almost everytime you'll need to start an other depot almost as the same time your current one is finishing so...it's a matter of playstyle.
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Can you explain what you mean by finding A inefficient, i really cannot think of a time B would be superior in any way, if MVP did this he probably forgot to rally back to minerals or something
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On November 02 2011 04:08 castled wrote:
If by queuing you mean having workers build multiple supply depots in a row, you should not be doing this, because you will end up with minerals tied up in a building that won't even start constructing for a while.
If you mean just having them return to mining after, I don't think it takes me any significant amount of time to shift-click the minerals. If anything I think it takes more focus to execute B, because you have to pay attention to when they are done building.
The reason why I'm thinking of doing B is because it can also apply to some raxes, factories and other stuff. It could work both ways: once the Idle Worker portrait pops up, you know those buildings you queued are already done.
Also, It's not queuing multiple buildings to tie-up minerals. It's like making three supply depots at the same time. Sorry if it wasn't clear.
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On November 02 2011 04:13 Iksf wrote:
Can you explain what you mean by finding A inefficient, i really cannot think of a time B would be superior in any way, if MVP did this he probably forgot to rally back to minerals or something
So let's say I'm moving my army to the middle and then setting up a drop near enemy's base. I check minerals and supply and I can make supply depots or build more barracks. So... I leave my army, go to my main, select workers, check mini-map, build depots/barracks, check mini-map, scroll to minerals, check mini-map and then shift click minerals.
Or... I leave my army, go to my main, select workers, check mini-map, build depots/barracks, return to my army and do carnage.
That, or I may just be too paranoid of leaving my army for a second.
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On November 02 2011 04:24 jayman wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2011 04:13 Iksf wrote:
Can you explain what you mean by finding A inefficient, i really cannot think of a time B would be superior in any way, if MVP did this he probably forgot to rally back to minerals or something So let's say I'm moving my army to the middle and then setting up a drop near enemy's base. I check minerals and supply and I can make supply depots or build more barracks. So... I leave my army, go to my main, select workers, check mini-map, build depots/barracks, check mini-map, scroll to minerals, check mini-map and then shift click minerals. Or... I leave my army, go to my main, select workers, check mini-map, build depots/barracks, return to my army and do carnage. That, or I may just be too paranoid of leaving my army for a second.
"Scroll to minerals"?
Selecting one worker and making him build a depot and then shift-clicking him back to a mineral patch shouldn't take you more than 1 second. Probably around .5 to do it all, I don't understand. Are you going to be clicking an SCV, scrolling your screen down, building the depot, grabbing a different SCV, scrolling your screen down and building the barracks, then going back to the first one and telling him go to the minerals?
I play Zerg but I off-race as Terran and I normally do A as it is much faster and much more efficient as there is much less downtime. Also, what if I'm in the middle of microing a battle as the idle worker portrait pops up? Then it will sit idle the whole time I finish microing etc., until I move him to a patch. With the first method you don't need to worry about that.
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I like camera macro where I zoom to my various bases and queue buildings. I need to know % completed when I macro so I don't queue.
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Am I the only one who has scvs that constantly make supply depots and never go back to mining minerals?
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On November 02 2011 04:32 zakmaa wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2011 04:24 jayman wrote:On November 02 2011 04:13 Iksf wrote:
Can you explain what you mean by finding A inefficient, i really cannot think of a time B would be superior in any way, if MVP did this he probably forgot to rally back to minerals or something So let's say I'm moving my army to the middle and then setting up a drop near enemy's base. I check minerals and supply and I can make supply depots or build more barracks. So... I leave my army, go to my main, select workers, check mini-map, build depots/barracks, check mini-map, scroll to minerals, check mini-map and then shift click minerals. Or... I leave my army, go to my main, select workers, check mini-map, build depots/barracks, return to my army and do carnage. That, or I may just be too paranoid of leaving my army for a second. "Scroll to minerals"? Selecting one worker and making him build a depot and then shift-clicking him back to a mineral patch shouldn't take you more than 1 second. Probably around .5 to do it all, I don't understand. Are you going to be clicking an SCV, scrolling your screen down, building the depot, grabbing a different SCV, scrolling your screen down and building the barracks, then going back to the first one and telling him go to the minerals? I play Zerg but I off-race as Terran and I normally do A as it is much faster and much more efficient as there is much less downtime. Also, what if I'm in the middle of microing a battle as the idle worker portrait pops up? Then it will sit idle the whole time I finish microing etc., until I move him to a patch. With the first method you don't need to worry about that.
Not clicking one SCV, but boxing (if I'm precise and lucky) three SCVs. As soon as I box three, I scroll to the nearest vacant patch, drop depots or barracks, return to minerals and shift click minerals.
I would say that most of the time, A will be utilized more because it does make sense to shift back to minerals. I brought the question up for B because I do notice some Terran players idling some workers after dropping some structures and then picking them up to return to mining.
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just fyi if u box all the scvs that are mining minerals then press build depot, 1 scv will go build 1 depot and if u build 2 then 2scvs will do it. only problem with this is when u want to shift click back to minerals u have all ur scvs selected instead of a few and the scvs still mining will do shift command to mine minerals too. TBH this is not an important topic in the slightest and i still dont know y i clicked on it......
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I do a combo of both, at a certain point (when on 2 bases or more) you need at least one scv constantly making depots, so that one I dont bother shiftclicking to the minerals because when he becomes idle i just have him make another depot.
however if i get supply blocked ill often pull off 2-3 scvs to all build depots simultaneously and shift-click those back to the minerals when they are done as I dont need those all to be building depots constantly.
in the beginning though, if making depot after depot is too many depots i shift click those scvs back to the mineral line
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Not that I'm suggesting this, but it's worth noting that the 'Idle Workers' function brings your camera to that location automatically. So, if you choose not to queue back to minerals, then adding selecting idle workers to your cycle might save you the steps of grabbing and finding a place for the supply depot. The SCV will be at the location of the last-completed depot. Of course, there are many occasions for workers to become idle, however, it probably isn't a bad thing to have it as part of the cycle so you notice it quickly.
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Never go by the "idle worker" portrait.
What I do: select X scvs, build depot(s), select scvs as they run out of my mineral line, shift click to minerals.
But if you're going to stick to one of those two, definitely the first one.
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I can't remember which pro i remember said this but they build a depot and let the scv go idle and he uses that as his queue to build another depot all game.
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On November 02 2011 04:42 SheffiTB wrote:
Am I the only one who has scvs that constantly make supply depots and never go back to mining minerals?
yeah i do this but only in the mid-late game in the early game tends to result in a bad hit to ur economy.
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On November 02 2011 06:00 Perfect wrote:
I can't remember which pro i remember said this but they build a depot and let the scv go idle and he uses that as his queue to build another depot all game.
Please remember. 
Anyway, this thing has been in the back of my mind. I have to be honest, I only watched one game from MVP where he idled some workers after dropping 1 CC, 2 Raxes and 2 Supply Depots, and then jumping in to Micro. I watched a stream of Jinro and was watching out for an idle worker, and there was one game where he did after dropping some buildings.
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I always do A if I'm just sitting around in my base macroing but if I'm moving out to attack or doing something that I need to focus a lot on I just do B.
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On November 02 2011 06:05 cristo1122 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2011 04:42 SheffiTB wrote:
Am I the only one who has scvs that constantly make supply depots and never go back to mining minerals? yeah i do this but only in the mid-late game in the early game tends to result in a bad hit to ur economy.
well I've memorized how many supply depots I need to produce per minute to not get supply blocked at pretty much every point in the game, so I never have too much supply or scvs idle. How is this a hit to my economy?
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I do: select worker > build supply depot > shift + hit the base camera key (backspace by default) to go back to base) + click on a mineral patch.
I also sometimes just leave an scv for building supply depots constantly and rarely do I have idle scvs for the first 10 minutes of the game.
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On November 02 2011 04:42 SheffiTB wrote:
Am I the only one who has scvs that constantly make supply depots and never go back to mining minerals?
That's what I do. Seems to make the most sense to me.
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On November 07 2011 09:02 BadgerWatch wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2011 04:42 SheffiTB wrote:
Am I the only one who has scvs that constantly make supply depots and never go back to mining minerals? That's what I do. Seems to make the most sense to me.
Yeah, after the early stages of the game where BO and timings take priority I'd say I have two SCVS building SDs constantly until 200, because 1 at a time isn't enough for higher production before max.
Otherwise, I'm with option A. It's just better... Less apm and less reaction time involved, SCVs always doing something.
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A is much better IMO because you waste no time having the worker be idle. If you forget to do ctrl select the workers (can happen in the heat of the game) then you are wasting precious mining time.
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On November 07 2011 09:35 Ktk wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2011 09:02 BadgerWatch wrote:On November 02 2011 04:42 SheffiTB wrote:
Am I the only one who has scvs that constantly make supply depots and never go back to mining minerals? That's what I do. Seems to make the most sense to me. Yeah, after the early stages of the game where BO and timings take priority I'd say I have two SCVS building SDs constantly until 200, because 1 at a time isn't enough for higher production before max. Otherwise, I'm with option A. It's just better... Less apm and less reaction time involved, SCVs always doing something.
Assuming you don't lose any units during engagements, you're going to need to constantly build 1 supply depot per fully saturated base. So for me, once my main is fully saturated I stop sending my depoy SCV back to the mineral line for two reasons:
1) It's already fully saturated, so he won't really increase my mining anyway
2) He should technically be starting another depot immediately after he finishes one.
The same principle applies once I saturate my 2nd base. Constantly building 2 depots without sending the SCV back to mine, for the same two reasons as stated above.
The rule only mildly applies to 3 fully saturated bases, because hopefully you are maxed. I have never gone straight to 200/200 without losing a unit or missing a supply depot, so I don't know if you need to build 3 at a time at any point, but in theory I guess you might.
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Start with A, progress to B, forget altogether until 8+ production facilities are all queued and locked.
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There's nothing wrong with doing both. When you're doing something macro and micro intensive, it's better to do the CTRL+F1 trick to select all idle workers and send them back to the mineral line. If it's something early game and you're not micro'ing/macro'ing intensively, then you can just right click it back to the mineral line.
It just depends on how high your APM is, your ability to multitask and the tasks at hand.
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I use A, although in the midgame I find it causes mining inefficiency, as I'm boxing more workers than I need for construction, and shift clicking them to a single patch makes them all converge on that patch, even if they're not the ones that ended up building things.
So if I have the attention to spare, I will reselect the building SCVs once they've moved out, and then shift click them onto minerals.
The idle worker method seems really strange. I can tell when structures finish because I hotkey them when I start construction, and will see when they finish from just tapping through my production. I'm already watching my money and food count to know when to start building, adding watching the idle worker indicator to that seems useless, since i don't really need that cue for half the things I construct, and the cues I do need I get from other sources (i.e. tapping).
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EPT
