[G] TvZ: Double reactor w/ great transition

s00pr

Sweden94 Posts

October 05 2011 15:19 GMT

Consider viewing the Liquipedia page for recent updates to the page layout and content
Hi guys! I'm writing this guide in order to provide a great new popular opening strategy versus Zerg. In addition it uses a very nice transition aswell.

I first saw this played by (T)

ThorZaIN pretty recent after his return from Korea in DH Valencia vs DRG in the final (I believe Day9 analyzed this game on daily #348), so this has probably been seen more on the Korean scene I can imagine. Later on I recognized the opening when for example (T)

MMA played his TvZ vs LosirA in the MLG Global Invitational so this makes me feel it is really such a strong strategy.

Next section is gonna be seperated in parts for easier viewing:

General idea:
First thing in this opening is pointing towards the first attack/pressure against the zerg with the use of double reactors. You will have1 at a barrack and 1 on the factory allowing 4-6 hellions and a nice amount of marines to be out in time for a medivac elevator play in the mainbase. Meanwhile you get a fairly fast expand with huge production, great for a timing attack with loads of marines and 4-6 tanks while rallying to your troops setup.

Opening BO
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10 Supply
12 Barrack
13 Refinery
15 Orbital
16 Supply

Train [3] Marines

19 Factory
21-23 Command Center

Reactor on Barracks & Factory

~24 Supply
~24 Starport

This is what your base is likely to look like.

Attack
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Now you're moving out with medivac, hellions and marines. Time to get some harassment done!

Find a good ledge in the mainbase of your opponent, try to spot an overlord for your marines to kill if possible while you unload hellions up to the cliff.

This part is greatly micro intensive if you want to deal alot of damage, hellions kill the lings/drones/banes while healed marines generaly focus queen/overlord while deal additional damage and sometimes act as tanking unit for the hellions to stay behind.
Use the medivac for fancy escape mecanism if banelings or roaches try to focus your marines or hellions.

Charge!

Transition
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Alright! First attack is on the way, time to gear up for the next one and take advantage of your nice economy.

Techlab after your first medivac and build 1 Banshee
Lift Factory and build Techlab
Build Barrack on the Reactor
Lift Starport after Banshee
Build Barrack on the Techlab
Add Barrack+Techlab

--
Build Ebay
Siege tank and start 3rd Refinery

Get Siege tech, Stimpack, Combat shield, +1 Attack Infantry
Marines, Tanks, Medivacs are gonna come out in huge numbers :-)

Execution
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As any other guide this requires general game knowledge like reacting to a scouted early spire and everything SC II has to offer in gameplay, this is a guide, for a specific strategy, not your overall play.
While you attack with your second huge push if you choiced to do so, planting a 3rd command center and adding more factorys+barracks while also more upgrades from ebay and armory is a great idea!

Map choice
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Preferely used on smaller maps but can have great success on even the largest map, Tal'darim. Every game is gonna be different, so just try to make the best out of the situation.

Replays
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Here I will provide replays of myself playing the european ladder
http://drop.sc/40850
http://drop.sc/40851
http://drop.sc/40852
http://drop.sc/40853

http://www.dreamhack.se/DHS11/2011/09/21/the-replays/
This is for the Thorzain replay, you are looking for Game #2 Tal'darim of the Grand Final
I can't really find many replays of high level korea players at all, have some? Share!

VOD
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MLG Global Invitational
http://tv.majorleaguegaming.com/events/3-mlg-starcraft-2-global-invitational-2011
Make sure its Game #3

Mr. Day[9]:
http://blip.tv/day9tv/day-9-daily-348-p1-thorzain-vs-drg-tvz-5576448

And if you want to watch me play the strat, I use it alot:http://www.justin.tv/s00pr
http://www.justin.tv/s00pr/b/296672143 It's the VOD of my replay matches, however I think there was a TvP before all the TvZ madness actually started.

I myself am not taking any credit for this strategy, I only try to contribute. I didn't find any post nor guide about this specific strategy so I decided to take a few hours and write it. If someone with greater knowledge then me can contribute or wish me to edit something out, tell me so. I'm only a diamond terran on the EU server.

Thanks for reading, feel free to give feedback or just discuss the strategy in this thread.
Peace!

Infinity gaming's thThechronic
EDIT *4
It seems like some high end user figured he would edit my whole liquipedia post, so it looks nothing like this post.. I hope its still usefull to someone, as I wont be updating that liquipost anymore..
*EDIT 3*
Been cleaning up the Liquipedia page, how do you guys like it?
*EDIT 2*
It's been officially added under matchup TvZ - Double reactor

*EDIT 1*
I started to add this to the Liquipedia duo request. How does it look so far?
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Double_reactor_(vs._Zerg)

OH and... Terran love!
[image loading]

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My english is bad sorry!
http://www.justin.tv/s00pr
http://infgaming.net/
♥

TolEranceNA

Canada434 Posts

October 05 2011 15:23 GMT

Marine Hellion Elevator. Nice contribution! Really helps me as a zerg to find the timing for it for me to counter it

Very nice.

Neddy

Australia13 Posts

October 05 2011 15:27 GMT

This worked surprisingly well in the game you mention. Really strong push that doesn't have any massive drawbacks... I'm eager to try it.

Thanks for the BO

BigBossX

United Kingdom357 Posts

October 05 2011 15:32 GMT

Thanks for the build order, I've been trying to mimic it since I saw MMA use it but couldn't quite get it right.

On October 06 2011 00:27 Neddy wrote:
This worked surprisingly well in the game you mention. Really strong push that doesn't have any massive drawbacks... I'm eager to try it.

Thanks for the BO

Roach play can be difficult to deal with and kinda forces you into defensive play, but can always drop hellions. At least in my experience.

Wrathsc2

United States2025 Posts

October 05 2011 17:25 GMT

when do you build your second gas?

s00pr

Sweden94 Posts

October 05 2011 17:48 GMT

On October 06 2011 02:25 radiantshadow92 wrote:
when do you build your second gas?

Watching the replay of Thorzain he gets it in the middle of making the Tech lab for the Factory. I seem to get it around the same time aswell. You dont generaly want to get behind on gas if your gonna get alot of early siege tanks and upgrades which you are. Around "moving out with CC to expand" seem to be a good time.
Also thanks guys for replying! Have fun with the build while the zergs still dont expect it ;-)

padfoota

Taiwan1571 Posts

October 05 2011 17:49 GMT

why not just go for the slayers TvZ BF hellion elevator style? Plus this is easily stopped with 3 queens sniping the medevac if the base is small.

phisku

Belgium864 Posts

October 05 2011 17:51 GMT

thx for the time you've put into that.

s00pr

Sweden94 Posts

October 05 2011 18:15 GMT

On October 06 2011 02:49 padfoota wrote:
why not just go for the slayers TvZ BF hellion elevator style? Plus this is easily stopped with 3 queens sniping the medevac if the base is small.

This actually happend to me in a replay I posted on Shattered. I'll provide some neat screenshots to tell the tail.

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He lost the 3 queens ,_,

As for the BF opening, I dont really know why since I havn't compared them but having early BF compared to early double Reactor in this state I think reactors might be better.
If your gonna tech to tanks anyway might aswell save the BF gas and get your structures built earlier and units built earlier. Correct me if im wrong though.

ftjust

Sweden43 Posts

October 05 2011 18:36 GMT

#10

awesome post! im gonna try it next tvz i play

fighting!

Burgath

Hungary26 Posts

October 05 2011 18:38 GMT

#11

On October 06 2011 03:15 s00pr wrote:

Show nested quote +

This actually happend to me in a replay I posted on Shattered. I'll provide some neat screenshots to tell the tail.

+ Show Spoiler +

He lost the 3 queens ,_,

You're right, bf is only +5 damage now, another hellion is a lot more.

RukKus

United States197 Posts

October 05 2011 18:52 GMT

#12

s00pr, or thechronic, that was a great VOD set you posted. I cannot access replay files on my computer at work, so I always appreciate VOD/streams to show off a build.

The build is very strong. Seems the Zerg must invest a lot of production time in dealing with the drop while you build an army at home... and by the time its dealt with, you have an army twice the size waiting back at base.

I did see you stockpiled 1000+ minerals pretty often during that initial drop. How much more powerful would the follow-through be if we worked on our macro during that first drop! I say so because I have the same trouble keeping my mineral low. This is a solid opener which isn't cheese or all in at all. Keep practicing keeping your money low as well as dealing some damage, and I figure it would be very very difficult for the Zerg to keep up!

RukKus

United States197 Posts

October 05 2011 18:59 GMT

#13

As Day9 said in his daily, many people [including me] stress about getting upgrades very fast, but they neglect army size. I notice this build gets into the 150+ food range extremely fast as well as offering consistent threat so the Zerg is pressure to produce more to deal with it. It is making me rethink my TvZ, as my only build lately has been 2 rax into fast upgrades... and here I wonder why I get demolished in the mid game so much!

BreakeR.

Austria220 Posts

October 05 2011 19:07 GMT

#14

Thx!!
Nice write up, i will try it.

Zinjil

United States166 Posts

October 05 2011 19:09 GMT

#15

I use this build exclusively in TvZ right now, after having it used on me a few times. 8 marines and 4 hellions can kill an astounding amount of lings/queens, and even with sloppy followup this build gets you super far ahead using almost only mineral units, leaving you free to tech to whatever you want and slowly add gas as necessary. the only thing I've ever had trouble with was a roach build, but most of those people just go all-in with those builds at my level, and marines and hellions up a ramp aren't too bad against roaches.

Waah

United States120 Posts

October 05 2011 19:15 GMT

#16

Looks solid, will try out and give some feedback later tonight.

Edit: Worked okay in all the TvZs played today but I'm a bit shaky with the execution and the transition, so lost more games than I should have.

Copenap

723 Posts

October 05 2011 19:18 GMT

#17

Addind this also to Liquipedia would add infite <3 of gratefulness to your work

jhk0219

United States189 Posts

October 05 2011 19:38 GMT

#18

High Master/GM zerg here.

This build is super hard to deal with, especially because of how limited the Zerg's vision is. From our perspective, it's hard to figure out what you're exactly doing, because as opposed to a regular hellion expand, there isn't a factory in front yard to let you know of timing for roach warren, etc. Unless you've played against this build a few times, or have seen it in action a lot, it's hard to exactly know when it's coming.

Like the OP mentioned, using three queens to snipe the medivac can result in some big loss, if the terran's any good. It's highly unlikely that you have creep spread all over the edges of the main base by the time this attack strikes, so queens will never be able to catch up to a well-microd medivac.

I've seen Idra defend this with spine + queen +ling, but then again it's Idra..... and the Terran also made some bad micro mistakes during the engagement.

I think the only safe way for the zerg to defend this is to get some early roaches, but I always feel like carving out my own flesh when I do this, because roaches are so expensive and they provide so little mobility/map control in comparison to lings.

I'm sure some super smart Korean player will come up with a way to deal with this, but as of right now, I basically do 2 base roach openers every time just to stop this + hellion expands which are the most popular builds atm.

jhk0219

United States189 Posts

October 05 2011 19:39 GMT

#19

I also hate the OP for posting this because every Terran that I face on ladder for the next 134314 days will be using this

Reaper101

United States11 Posts

October 05 2011 21:12 GMT

#20

On October 06 2011 04:39 jhk0219 wrote:
I also hate the OP for posting this because every Terran that I face on ladder for the next 134314 days will be using this

Don't worry, tomorrow there will be a guide posted on how to beat this

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[G] TvZ: Double reactor w/ great transition

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