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On May 05 2011 16:31 Kotschmonaut wrote:
entered this thread, expecting discussion about new PvZ styles including infestors, banelings, fast t3, whatever.
then saw some gold nap complaining he hasnt got enough apm for mutas and that zergs shouldnt complain
then left the thread immeadatly
User was temp banned for this post.
Obviously you didn't read ANYTHING that I wrote in this topic... as I never ONCE mentioned anything about muta's, let alone the fact that you claim I said "zergs shouldn't complain"... Thankful for the temp ban, as these are the type of people that sometimes prevent me from posting at all. It takes a lot of nerve for a lower level player like myself to come on the largest PROFESSIONAL gaming website in the world and release replays to the public for scrutiny to seek help... and people like you are the reason such a high % of the TL population simply lurks.
On May 05 2011 16:15 ZeNd0kUn wrote:
I'm pretty much amazed at how many people didn't really watch the replay before giving advice.
Anyways here's my take on your play according to your replay.
Zerg gained a huge advantage by a Roach push at 9:00 game time. There were only 11 Roaches and you lost a Nexus, a pylon, 2 zealots, 4 stalkers and 3 sentries in the engagement while he lost only 5 roaches in the trade. Needless to say this is the critical part of the game which needs to be analyzed for you to improve your game.
The Zerg opened 10 pool and did nothing, so theoretically the zerg should be behind and you should be ahead. Whether you could decipher this from your scouting probe depends on how good your are at reading opponent builds. The zerg had no expansion and the gas was midway when your probe made it's mandatory catwalk behind the mineral line before dying. ( obviously it meant pool first build )
So analyzing why you lost to this early aggression ( if you can call 9:00 early ) ... it was because
1. Your scouting was inadequate
You scouted his base last ( tough luck ) but anyways you should send another one immediately and note expansion timing ( if he is expanding or not ) or if the zerg was going to 7 roach rush you or whatnot. ( there are plenty of nasty roach rushes that hit before the 5 minute mark )
Consider getting your observer out faster or opt for hallucination.
Occupy the towers aggressively instead of sending out a random probe to death by the zergling.
Send a suicide probe into the base of the zerg constantly to get information. ( constantly meaning if 1 probe fails send another )
2. Your defenses were inadequate
If I'm not wrong the 3 gate sentry expand is designed to hold off mass ling aggression/runbys by getting a lot of sentries in conjunction with a few zealots and some cannons. You only had 6 sentries and you didn't use them very well either. ( There's a thread where Incontrol coached a zerg how to 3 gate expand : they go up to 9 sentries to hold off aggression )
I feel you could have pumped more gateway units during the 9:00 minute period out of 3 gates. Also, you went 3 gate nexus robo .. you can consider 3 gate nexus forge gate gate robo to pump out more gateway units specifically for these types of pushes from the zerg. Getting a forge is a part of the 3 gate exp.and build for the early +1 attack anyways and you can plant a few cannons if any pending aggression is scouted.
In summary, I don't think the loss is the replay was because of a metagame shift/ trend .. the early ling roach aggression displayed by pros such as Losira and other zergs are on a different level in terms of scouting and build order than what this zerg in the replay displayed. Anyways I hope my 2 cents helped and hope it makes you a better gamer.
I think this is exactly what I needed to hear. I think I've become too comfortable with my PvZ matchup and let my general gameplay mechanics suffer as a result. I am usually very proactive about gaining scout information on production / economy and actually putting it to use... This game was simply one of the examples of how I'm having a hard time with this style of play.
To sum it up, I think I am going to start doing things a bit more in this order:
1. Instead of getting robo immediately after throwing down my nexus, I NEED to prioritize my SimCity and getting out a few more units. Delaying robo isn't that big of a deal, as I will actually stay alive if I do so. I'm trying to get too far ahead, being way too greedy. I never used to play like this but my comfort level with PvZ was so high, I felt like I could do anything and get away with it.
2. I'm going to actually produce out of my 3gate rather then trying to crank economy and production as much as possible, and focus on scaling them with my army better. Trying to jump too high in economy / production / tech while sacrificing my army size seems to be my major problem in this matchup. Once my macro kicks in, I can max out in like 16-17 minutes... although, I will admit I am very weak during this transition period.
3. I need to get back onto my scouting routines in this matchup. I spent so much time learning what to scout for and how to react to what I am seeing... throwing all that away because of my crazy winrate vs. Zerg for the longest time was a HUGE mistake, and I will suffer because of it as I will have to relearn how to play my PvZ.
4. Map control. This is a critical role in the way I play PvT (and to a lesser extent, PvP), so why have I started slouching in PvZ? Again... my comfort / confidence in this matchup killed me, to put it simply.
5. Different economic scaling. I usually like to grow my economy to the point where I can just mass production facilities and start cranking units like crazy.... I think from this point forward I will never add more then 2 structures at any given time (ex: 2 gateways, 1robo 1gate, 1star 1gate, ect.).
All of your advice has been invaluable to me. Thank you all SO much for putting time and effort into helping me improve. It means a lot to me. I think I will become a bit more of a frequent poster as a result of this.... No, I won't be posting "[H] I'm Bad - Need Help" topics every day... but if there should be a situation like this to arise in the future, I won't hold back as much as I did up to this point as I feel more comfortable posting now.
If anyone wants to offer any advice or help me practice ingame... My info is:
MoFunk.167
Again, thank you all so much. TL fucking fighting!
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soooooo... is 4 gate transition into robo still an option? Is zerg still as unbalanced as as we once thought?
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I'm a high-diamond low masters player and i have been having a lot of success with a 2gate stargate expo against zerg where i push out with around 4 phoenix at 7 minutes while taking my expansion with a forge 3-4 zealots 1-2 sentries and 1-3 stalkers depending on the pressure im taking.
What i pretty much do is open up standard
9 pylon
12 gate
cycore asap
zealot
early second gas
stalker
i throw down my stargate once the stalker gets out to kill the drone scout and patrol for the overlord scout. i chrono boost out 4 phoenixes and push out (4 is enough to one shot drones and kill queens in one lift) i do as much damage as possible while taking my natural and throwing down a forge for cannons (detection) and upgrades. I keep making phoenix depending on how successful i am being,I transition into what i need whether it be colossus, lots of gates or what have you. I have had no trouble holding off roach pushes because i kill so many overlords and queens usually their push is very delayed. If it is a 7 roach rush you can easily chrono boost out a VR and hold it off.
If my stargate gets scouted by a zerg because i forget to watch for the scouting OV i can cancel stargate and easily transition into 3 gate expo or 4 gate heavy pressure (neither which they are expecting)
I have had very high success against zerg and have been beating masters opponents. I would say give this build a try i have had a lot of success with it.
P.S. the one build that kicked my ass when i did this was a hyrda drop because i reacted very poorly i haven't had much practice against this build but i make sure to patrol my phoenixes for overlords if i am not harassing the zerg base so i can stop a drop before it happens.
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Canada13407 Posts
On May 07 2011 11:57 Swazi wrote:
I'm a high-diamond low masters player and i have been having a lot of success with a 2gate stargate expo against zerg where i push out with around 4 phoenix at 7 minutes while taking my expansion with a forge 3-4 zealots 1-2 sentries and 1-3 stalkers depending on the pressure im taking.
What i pretty much do is open up standard
9 pylon
12 gate
cycore asap
zealot
early second gas
stalker
i throw down my stargate once the stalker gets out to kill the drone scout and patrol for the overlord scout. i chrono boost out 4 phoenixes and push out (4 is enough to one shot drones and kill queens in one lift) i do as much damage as possible while taking my natural and throwing down a forge for cannons (detection) and upgrades. I keep making phoenix depending on how successful i am being,I transition into what i need whether it be colossus, lots of gates or what have you. I have had no trouble holding off roach pushes because i kill so many overlords and queens usually their push is very delayed. If it is a 7 roach rush you can easily chrono boost out a VR and hold it off.
If my stargate gets scouted by a zerg because i forget to watch for the scouting OV i can cancel stargate and easily transition into 3 gate expo or 4 gate heavy pressure (neither which they are expecting)
I have had very high success against zerg and have been beating masters opponents. I would say give this build a try i have had a lot of success with it.
P.S. the one build that kicked my ass when i did this was a hyrda drop because i reacted very poorly i haven't had much practice against this build but i make sure to patrol my phoenixes for overlords if i am not harassing the zerg base so i can stop a drop before it happens.
I have to agree, I too have found that an early stargate really helps shut down heavy roach ling aggression. When i can I decide to Forge Fe into voidrays but the key is to really really scout since if a roach ling all in does come a la mondragon TSL you really need to constantly build your wall to hold off the opponent until you can kill enough with the voidrays to survive.
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On May 07 2011 11:57 Swazi wrote:
I'm a high-diamond low masters player and i have been having a lot of success with a 2gate stargate expo against zerg where i push out with around 4 phoenix at 7 minutes while taking my expansion with a forge 3-4 zealots 1-2 sentries and 1-3 stalkers depending on the pressure im taking.
What i pretty much do is open up standard
9 pylon
12 gate
cycore asap
zealot
early second gas
stalker
i throw down my stargate once the stalker gets out to kill the drone scout and patrol for the overlord scout. i chrono boost out 4 phoenixes and push out (4 is enough to one shot drones and kill queens in one lift) i do as much damage as possible while taking my natural and throwing down a forge for cannons (detection) and upgrades. I keep making phoenix depending on how successful i am being,I transition into what i need whether it be colossus, lots of gates or what have you. I have had no trouble holding off roach pushes because i kill so many overlords and queens usually their push is very delayed. If it is a 7 roach rush you can easily chrono boost out a VR and hold it off.
If my stargate gets scouted by a zerg because i forget to watch for the scouting OV i can cancel stargate and easily transition into 3 gate expo or 4 gate heavy pressure (neither which they are expecting)
I have had very high success against zerg and have been beating masters opponents. I would say give this build a try i have had a lot of success with it.
P.S. the one build that kicked my ass when i did this was a hyrda drop because i reacted very poorly i haven't had much practice against this build but i make sure to patrol my phoenixes for overlords if i am not harassing the zerg base so i can stop a drop before it happens.
You can't get out a void ray in time to deal with 7 roaches at the 5:30 mark. Unless you wall off completely with an extra gateway to buy you time, you won't have a void ray out in time. The rush comes at around 5 minutes (5:30 for normal rush distance), and after the stalker (4:30), the stargate takes a minute, so 5:30, and then you have to build the void ray which costs another 60 seconds without chronoboost, which is around 6:30.
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You can't get out a void ray in time to deal with 7 roaches at the 5:30 mark. Unless you wall off completely with an extra gateway to buy you time, you won't have a void ray out in time. The rush comes at around 5 minutes (5:30 for normal rush distance), and after the stalker (4:30), the stargate takes a minute, so 5:30, and then you have to build the void ray which costs another 60 seconds without chronoboost, which is around 6:30.
I've dealt with the 7 roach rush before i take some damage but i always seem to survive it with the voidray and am usually able to win the game with 2-3 voidrays. Also if you are on close ground and nervous about a vr you could CB out a sentry or stalker to try to hold it out.
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You should put [L] in the title. I understand you needing help but it should be clear that you are a gold(?) level player. If you are at or near that level I think the best thing you could do is mass gaming, instead of asking for help. "Metagame" doesn't really mean anything at lower levels, and you shouldn't base your play style on getting good relative to gold level metagame. Honestly, if you had good mechanics and a good understanding of the game then you would be rolling the other gold/plat players.
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On May 07 2011 14:27 Carmine wrote:
You should put [L] in the title. I understand you needing help but it should be clear that you are a gold(?) level player. If you are at or near that level I think the best thing you could do is mass gaming, instead of asking for help. "Metagame" doesn't really mean anything at lower levels, and you shouldn't base your play style on getting good relative to gold level metagame. Honestly, if you had good mechanics and a good understanding of the game then you would be rolling the other gold/plat players.
Another "Blind leading the Blind" post... did you read anything I said, whatsoever? Obviously there has been a shift in this matchup's trending strategy's, as the statistics don't lie. Also, I find it quite ridiculous that you pop in after 4+ pages of legitimate discussion and blame my faults on "mechanics and good understanding of the game"...
You are the type of person that I spoke of earlier, that makes it un-nerving for someone like myself to come here and post... because what you are saying isn't going to help ANYONE, other then your post count.
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On May 05 2011 08:32 dani` wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2011 08:26 isospeedrix wrote:
As a Z, the roach/ling all in is one of my most frequently used strats to combat the 3gate expand. I daresay the most effective counter to this build is a Stargate void ray before expansion. I have approximately a 0% win rate against 1base stargate first builds. I just hope that not too many people will shift to this build because I absolute hate combating 1base stargate. Why would you do a Roach / Ling all-in vs a 1-basing player? Just continue your droning and sacrifice an Overlord to see what he's up to and respond accordingly. The point of insane aggression early is to punish the relatively fast expansion of Protoss. It's actually quite hilarious seeing how Zergs would rage a *lot* not so long ago when Protoss would do very early attack vs Hatch first, calling it cheese, noobstrat and whatnot. Essentially they start doing it themselves because early rush > early expansion. Obvious, I know, but Zergs thought they should always be allowed to Hatch first anyway...
How is that "hilarious"? The consequence is that zerg prefers to pool first (hatch after) because this more safe, if a protoss expands, he's ahead.. thus the all-ins make sense.
You're quite contradicting yourself.. TT
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On May 05 2011 08:44 Drock wrote:
PvZ is by far my wost matchup. I'm a plat player and have recently been losing to silver level zergs. I win probably90% of my PvP and probably 75% of my PvT's (although i rarely ever play against T's lately, literally 1 out of my last 20 games was against a T.
Honestly, I just gg right off the bat most times against Z as I just cannot beat them. If I manage to make it to the mid game (only if they don't 2base all-in) they then switch to muta's then it's gg for me.
Super frustrating. I just don't have the apm to defend Muta harrass, even if I have blink stalkers. And they always get muta's way before I even think about HT's. And honestly, I hate using HT's, they take forever to tech to.
I honestly don't know why Z is always bitching about imbalance.
You don't know why they're bitching because you refuse to learn how to play against them? If you gg at the start, you're never going to get any better. You don't tech to HT to defend muta harass, you get one stargate and CB phoenixes. Phoenixes require almost no micro, although the benefit greatly from it, and absolutely SHRED mutalisks.
If you're having problems getting to lategame, try pressuring zergs more early. Faking a 3 gate expand by showing like one sentry and then adding a stargate will just win outright in a lot of games. Stargate play is hugely underrated in sub diamond leagues.
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On May 08 2011 04:47 PR4Y wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2011 14:27 Carmine wrote:
You should put [L] in the title. I understand you needing help but it should be clear that you are a gold(?) level player. If you are at or near that level I think the best thing you could do is mass gaming, instead of asking for help. "Metagame" doesn't really mean anything at lower levels, and you shouldn't base your play style on getting good relative to gold level metagame. Honestly, if you had good mechanics and a good understanding of the game then you would be rolling the other gold/plat players. Another "Blind leading the Blind" post... did you read anything I said, whatsoever? Obviously there has been a shift in this matchup's trending strategy's, as the statistics don't lie. Also, I find it quite ridiculous that you pop in after 4+ pages of legitimate discussion and blame my faults on "mechanics and good understanding of the game"... You are the type of person that I spoke of earlier, that makes it un-nerving for someone like myself to come here and post... because what you are saying isn't going to help ANYONE, other then your post count.
You are the kind of player that thinks that stuff that he sees in gold league is relevant. Any trends in gold league don't matter because they don't win against people in PLATINUM league. You just want to think what you do matters, when you don't (probably) put more than 5 hours a week into the game. If you put more in and you are still in gold, then you have other problems.
User was temp banned from Strategy Forum for this post and his other post in this thread
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So Carmine's being kind of a dick about it, but he's somewhat right.
What you have to realize is that we're not being deliberately unhelpful. We cannot help you if you want to learn to play more strategically in gold league, because we simply do not know proper gold league strategy. I know what to do about mutas in a diamond or masters game; cannons discourage mutas, blink stalkers punish greedy mutas, and amoving your army into his base punishes overproducing mutas.
But I know literally nothing about how to best deal with mutas in a gold level game. I imagine that one of the above solutions would work decently, but I don't know that, because games in gold league are fundamentally different. It may be that you don't have good enough blink stalker control for that to be an effective counter, or it may be that your opponents have bad enough muta control that it's all you need. Maybe your opponents are macroing well enough that you can't reflexively all-in when you see 30 mutas, and maybe you're macroing well enough that you can all-in when you see 7. High level players can tell you what we'd do in such-and-such situation, but it's important for you to realize that, it doesn't necessarily apply at all. Any strategy you get is going to fail in some situation where it should succeed, and there won't be anything we can tell you but "well, you have to have better mechanics.
Again, though, try to ignore him. He's saying what I'm saying in the most abrasive and least helpful way possible.
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3 gate expand is more of a viable option in PvP, and PvT imho. I think Forge FE is probably much much stronger against zergs than a 3gate expand. Another problem it could just be your sentry count. If you have a ton of sentries, its pretty much near impossible for roaches to be too effective, w/ that being said, RETAIN SENTRY COUNT! trying to replace sentries, after build your initial 8 sentries is such a bitch, it starts cutting into your colossus count.
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Forge FE is stronger against zerg, but it works on only 2 ladder maps and makes it much harder to defend against early all-ins. It's good to learn eventually, but I wouldn't recommend it to someone already struggling with the matchup.
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PvZ is just ugly right now. I switched from toss to zerg and luls at people attempting to 3 gate expand. 8 raoches+28 lings kills any expo. Mass lings after a 14 gas/pool can easily break a single zealot that toss usually do. The main problem is scouting. I realized after my first 2 sets of lings pop out. I can deny all scouts. So from a toss turned zerg, I suggest players to stop 3 gate sentry expand. Add more stalkers before moving out to take the expo or add a forge then take the expo and put down cannon right away. The Old 7-8 sentry+zealot expansion is gonna go out of the meta.
Also don't listen to people about forge FE. You basically are gonna die to roach-all in and nydus unless you are great at probe micro.
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On May 08 2011 16:35 Amarkov wrote:
Forge FE is stronger against zerg, but it works on only 2 ladder maps and makes it much harder to defend against early all-ins. It's good to learn eventually, but I wouldn't recommend it to someone already struggling with the matchup.
noob zerg here:
which two maps are these, I want to veto them.
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Tal'darim and Shakuras are far and away the best maps for forge FE. It was possible on metal, but as far as I know it's actually not possible to deal with Nestea's spine crawler rush if you don't have a full wall in front of your nexus. And it's doable on backwater, but you need 4 buildings and perfect positioning for a full wall.
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On May 08 2011 18:41 joyeaux wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2011 16:35 Amarkov wrote:
Forge FE is stronger against zerg, but it works on only 2 ladder maps and makes it much harder to defend against early all-ins. It's good to learn eventually, but I wouldn't recommend it to someone already struggling with the matchup. noob zerg here: which two maps are these, I want to veto them.
Shakuras and Taldarim i think.
You can FFE on other maps but it's harder.
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K, just watched the replay.
I don't understand what you mean by "trend change" because this game showcased none. He did a roach all in off 2 bases and transitioned into roach hydra macro. That's not a trend change.... Zergs have been doing 2 base all ins for a while. Also this one was a pure roach attack, which is never really done because its terrible, so yea there was no new trend here.
Now, I don't understand why this game is confusing you. He went for an all in. If you go 3 gate expand (like you did), you have to be crisp with your execution to defend roach pushes because the build already cuts it close to get a good economy. Put simply, your macro wasn't "fine", it was very very bad. The timings of your build overall were off, but I'm not a protoss player so I'll let someone else cover this. You used your chrono boosts terribly, which led to you not having as many probes as you should have had earlier, which set your build back again. At 6 minutes 45 seconds into the game you have full energy on your nexus, and you only start to use a chrono at 7:24. Your energy remained ridiculously high on both nexus, at at like 9 minutes they were both at 100 / 100. Yea, I think you can guess this is very bad. You could have chronoed your probes, +1, and robo tech faster.
You scout that he has a lot of roaches off only 2 bases at a fairly early time, yet you didn't build a cannon. Wait, you didn't actually scout.
Your macro strictly in terms of making units and production buildings consistently slipped. You were often at 1k minerals, you didn't make units as soon as your warpgate cooldown finished, and you only had 3 warpgates despite being over 10 minutes into the game and on 2 base saturation. This also led to you not being able to spend your money, which in turn led to you not having as many units as you should have when the attack came.
You didn't make enough sentries. From what I recall you only had 4, when you want to make 1 zealot and about 7 sentries as early as you can. You're gonna need that many sentries to defend attacks, and you need to build them before any other unit so they can start saving energy.
Your micro was also really bad, and a 3 gate expand requires you use forcefields well, which you didnt. Part of the problem of course was you didn't have enough sentries in the first place. Anyway, your forcefields secluded a total of.....2 roaches? Basically you let him walk up that ramp for free despite having an army there, and get really close to ur army with roaches before u put up forcefields that didn't actually do anything. Practice better forcefield micro, and in that case specifically use forcefields on the ramp to funnel his units and delay him walking up that ramp.
The game was effectively over after the first attack killed your nexus so I won't bother talking about the game after that.
So yea, to conclude: you're going for a 3 gate expand. This is safe vs any all ins, but the build cuts it close. You need to have crisp execution and good forcefield micro to make it work. Your macro was very bad, you didn't add enough production structures, you didn't use your chronoboosts well, you didn't scout, and you didn't micro well, hence you lost. This really had nothing to do with a PvZ trend change or even the PvZ matchup. You just didn't execute your build at all and got punished for it.
On May 08 2011 04:47 PR4Y wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2011 14:27 Carmine wrote:
You should put [L] in the title. I understand you needing help but it should be clear that you are a gold(?) level player. If you are at or near that level I think the best thing you could do is mass gaming, instead of asking for help. "Metagame" doesn't really mean anything at lower levels, and you shouldn't base your play style on getting good relative to gold level metagame. Honestly, if you had good mechanics and a good understanding of the game then you would be rolling the other gold/plat players. Another "Blind leading the Blind" post... did you read anything I said, whatsoever? Obviously there has been a shift in this matchup's trending strategy's, as the statistics don't lie. Also, I find it quite ridiculous that you pop in after 4+ pages of legitimate discussion and blame my faults on "mechanics and good understanding of the game"... You are the type of person that I spoke of earlier, that makes it un-nerving for someone like myself to come here and post... because what you are saying isn't going to help ANYONE, other then your post count.
No, he's right. There is no metagame relevant to gold league because everyone is so lacking in their mechanics that's nothing matters that much. I mean look at this game...the guy made like 15 roaches off 1.5 base saturation and attacked you. He also opened 10 pool and continued making drones...that's reflecting a changing trend in Zerg play? No, it was just a bad build that shouldn't work if you play it right.
The problem very clearly was your mechanics. Your execution of the build was very bad, and probably indicative of how good your macro is as a whole. If you fix your macro and know nothing else but a general idea of what units to make and an opening build, you're gonna laugh your way up to mid diamond. At this level ignore all "metagaming", strategy, map control, matchup dynamics, etc because its not very relevant to you. Your basic mechanics:
- macro (consistently making workers, units, adding gateways, spending chrono)
- Scouting
- Forcefield micro
need serious work before you start getting more elaborate because right now they're severely lacking.
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On May 05 2011 09:04 FabledIntegral wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2011 08:32 dani` wrote:On May 05 2011 08:26 isospeedrix wrote:
As a Z, the roach/ling all in is one of my most frequently used strats to combat the 3gate expand. I daresay the most effective counter to this build is a Stargate void ray before expansion. I have approximately a 0% win rate against 1base stargate first builds. I just hope that not too many people will shift to this build because I absolute hate combating 1base stargate. Why would you do a Roach / Ling all-in vs a 1-basing player? Just continue your droning and sacrifice an Overlord to see what he's up to and respond accordingly. The point of insane aggression early is to punish the relatively fast expansion of Protoss. It's actually quite hilarious seeing how Zergs would rage a *lot* not so long ago when Protoss would do very early attack vs Hatch first, calling it cheese, noobstrat and whatnot. Essentially they start doing it themselves because early rush > early expansion. Obvious, I know, but Zergs thought they should always be allowed to Hatch first anyway... Are you kidding? "Why would you do an all-in" is a question in and of itself - but it was because "respond accordingly" as Zerg has not worked whatsoever for Zergs the last few months, with the exception of possibly the last few weeks. A solution to was instead to do blind all-ins to win because it was basically impossible otherwise, if you went down the route of Roach/Hydra/Corrupter.
The reason why roach/hydra/corruptor wasn't working is because its a pretty bad unit composition against the standard Protoss deathball (stalker / sentry / colossus / VR). Additionally, its heavy on the supply, with all units being 2 supply and no AoE. It relied on the fact that zerg gain utter unit dominance (but can't attack unless you have drops) that lets zerg expand and get enough resources for a fast tech switch when the composition inevitably dies. If zergs didn't hit the proper timing for ultra/broodlord/baneling then there wasn't much they could do due to their unit composition and lack of transition.
With a game that focuses so heavily on unit composition, zergs were basically catering to the Protoss deathball such that the protoss didn't have to adjust their composition. Once HT were added to the mix in a timely fashion, the situation became pretty dim.
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EPT
