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Then just cannon rush them? That's what 80% of the toss do. I'm not sure if you're trying to display your credentials either, but I'm a 3900 Zerg, so if anything that backfires on you^. Not sure how in the world massing roaches right after you expand isn't an all-in you should just hold off and counter, anyways. When you're expanding I'm droning up as hard as possible with speedlings, then just focusing afterwards on holding off any potential 6gates (or the more now common 5gate) pushes that occur afterwards.
I agree with you that I could canon rush his expo if hes going hatch first...however, any competent zerg player will have a OV over his natural to prevent it and then he will just pull drones...Thats if he doesnt already have an OV over your base to see what is going on!
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I don't know about this. I always felt that deathball is the way Protoss is supposed to play to make up for their obvious weaknesses in the match up. The lack of mobility and cost ineffectiveness of T1 units makes it so hard to match Z expanding in the midgame if he is aggressive with his speedlings/banelings or roaches.
I thought Z had found a fairly reliable strategy in what Ret did to win Assembly. Denying Protoss their third base with multipronged attacks while expanding aggressively and pressuring until there's no more sentry energy. Having 5 bases to 2 in the end and flattening the Toss when the roaches and lings break through.
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ZERG OP ZERG OP ! I feel a lot better now 
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On March 23 2011 09:30 FabledIntegral wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2011 09:05 Pureprotoss wrote:I assure you that most of the community disagrees with you on this matter of it being Z favored prior 1.03. Well I am a 3100 master toss and it seems like zerg always gets the best on me. If I can't pylon their expo in time I feel I should just leave since they will be so far ahead and will roflstomp me 2mins later with mass roaches. The mass sentries expand does not seem strong enough to hold since they will just go for mass hydra or mutas after the early mass roach aggression. I mean...maybe I just don't understand the basic of this matchup but I fear the new infestor change. It is going to be so hard for toss now. The worst will definatly be the mass mutas that will be near unstoppable without KA... Then just cannon rush them?
You're assuming they went Forge first, which is completely map dependent.
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My last 10 protoss games have all had me have no need whatsoever to make anything but roaches and queens until tier 3. Hopefully now you'll be able to fix it up, considering hydralisks simply fail at being viable by lategame.
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good. zerg needs something to stop that damn deathball.now protoss has to stop us from getting certain tech too.
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Viability of HTs now?
Maybe using phoenix with voids or alone to snipe?
DT's to snipe?
I dunno, as a toss I'm worried. Hopefully someone will have an answer. I guess toss air may be the way to go for now.
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High templars will be very useful in this situation.
I think high templars will be very useful in PvZ, than in PvT.
It seems that high templars are useless, except for feed-backing infestors. Well, that's the point. You feed-back. You can still warp-in feed-back!. The next major thing you want to do it morph archons.
Archons serve at least 4 different major purposes:
a) They destroy light units. Your zerglings are incredibly useless when archons get the +3 weapons because they get a lot of extra damage instead of +1/+2.
b) They can easily tank all ground units, and it takes a lot of fungals to kill an archon due to the archon's psionic nature.
c) They're hard-hitting tanks. They can tank baneling fire, pop up filled-overlords due to clumped up splash damage, and destroy/tank broodlings easily.
d) They're also great against ultralisks.
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This change may seem OP at first, but I think it will actually help PvZ evolve a ton. Before, essentially all PvZ games were Colossi/Stalker balls against Roach, Hydra, Corrupter. Now, with Infestors being a strong counter to that, there will be a reason for more stargate and templar play, something that PvZ needed desperately. And the stun duration being reduced to 4 seconds also helps encourage more templar and stargate since DTs will be revealed for a shorter period of time and air will be held in place for nowhere near long enough fro ITs to clean them up (unless you use multiple fungals of course). On paper, this should actually make PvZ an extremely balanced and versatile match up. It will just be interesting to see how this is balanced in ZvZ and ZvT, since it seems like it will make Infestors extremely strong in ZvZ and much less useful in ZvT.
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Infestor > HT.
Many reasons for this.
Larger AoE on Fungal.
Infestors are faster and have a mobile stealth ability.
Fungal does not harm friendly units while Storm does. One of the reasons Storm sucks in PvP is that it hurts your own units like Zealots. Among other things like you will die if you try to tech to storm.
It is much harder to Storm an army back to back than it is to Fungal back to back. Once you trap an army with Fungal you can Fungal them to death and they can do nothing about it. With Storm you can always retreat from the slow Templar and maneuver around them.
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On March 23 2011 09:53 Barca wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2011 09:30 FabledIntegral wrote:On March 23 2011 09:05 Pureprotoss wrote:I assure you that most of the community disagrees with you on this matter of it being Z favored prior 1.03. Well I am a 3100 master toss and it seems like zerg always gets the best on me. If I can't pylon their expo in time I feel I should just leave since they will be so far ahead and will roflstomp me 2mins later with mass roaches. The mass sentries expand does not seem strong enough to hold since they will just go for mass hydra or mutas after the early mass roach aggression. I mean...maybe I just don't understand the basic of this matchup but I fear the new infestor change. It is going to be so hard for toss now. The worst will definatly be the mass mutas that will be near unstoppable without KA... Then just cannon rush them? You're assuming they went Forge first, which is completely map dependent.
No, I'm not. I don't know what level you're playing at, but most Protosses I play will go gateway --> forge, chrono the first zealot out, which reaches your base right BEFORE your Zerglings pop unless cross positions. The forge is building while the pylon you're cannon rushing is making simultaneously. Yeah, shit finishes later, but that's why you have the zealot incoming. It is not dependent whatsoever on forge first.
On March 23 2011 09:36 Pureprotoss wrote:Show nested quote +Then just cannon rush them? That's what 80% of the toss do. I'm not sure if you're trying to display your credentials either, but I'm a 3900 Zerg, so if anything that backfires on you^. Not sure how in the world massing roaches right after you expand isn't an all-in you should just hold off and counter, anyways. When you're expanding I'm droning up as hard as possible with speedlings, then just focusing afterwards on holding off any potential 6gates (or the more now common 5gate) pushes that occur afterwards. I agree with you that I could canon rush his expo if hes going hatch first...however, any competent zerg player will have a OV over his natural to prevent it and then he will just pull drones...Thats if he doesnt already have an OV over your base to see what is going on!
How is this relevant? The cannon rushing still typically wins even when the zerg knows the cannon rushing is going on the moment the pylon is placed before the Zerg even sees the cannons. Please... comment if you know how the cannon rushes actually happen.
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On March 23 2011 18:02 FabledIntegral wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2011 09:53 Barca wrote:On March 23 2011 09:30 FabledIntegral wrote:On March 23 2011 09:05 Pureprotoss wrote:I assure you that most of the community disagrees with you on this matter of it being Z favored prior 1.03. Well I am a 3100 master toss and it seems like zerg always gets the best on me. If I can't pylon their expo in time I feel I should just leave since they will be so far ahead and will roflstomp me 2mins later with mass roaches. The mass sentries expand does not seem strong enough to hold since they will just go for mass hydra or mutas after the early mass roach aggression. I mean...maybe I just don't understand the basic of this matchup but I fear the new infestor change. It is going to be so hard for toss now. The worst will definatly be the mass mutas that will be near unstoppable without KA... Then just cannon rush them? You're assuming they went Forge first, which is completely map dependent. No, I'm not. I don't know what level you're playing at, but most Protosses I play will go gateway --> forge, chrono the first zealot out, which reaches your base right BEFORE your Zerglings pop unless cross positions. The forge is building while the pylon you're cannon rushing is making simultaneously. Yeah, shit finishes later, but that's why you have the zealot incoming. It is not dependent whatsoever on forge first.
3600 Masters, you're probably playing at a higher level. I'm definitely going to start cannon blocking a hatch first, since it's damn near impossible to play PvZ when they get away with such a fast expo.
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EPT
