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On March 23 2011 03:41 sleepingdog wrote:
What I really don't like is that infestors now seem to be good....ALWAYS, nearly similar to the colossus. They are godlike vs air harass, are good vs blink and are now even generally awsome aoe-damage-dealers. Not necessarily OP but definitely a too broad spectrum of usefulness. Right now I couldn't think of a situation where you "don't" want to have infestors.
Zerg right now has trouble with "guessing games", determining the right units to make to counter what the opponent is doing. Infestors being useful in all cases thus isn't too bad, as long as they're not optimal in all cases.
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might actually get to see the Zerg deathball (Infestors + Broodlords) in a ZvP pro match now
it was also very very good pre-patch 1.3, but I don't think there was ever a pro match that showcased it since the Zerg player needed to completely outclass his opponent to be able to get out a sufficient number of high energy infestors & broodlords to show its strength
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I think we'll see a lot more colossus and HT in PvZ now (not that there wasn't a fairly high amount already). Colossus somewhat, and especially high templar just dominate infestors. The thing with colossus and infestors is you just need 3 colos (assuming at least 1 attack upgrade) to 1 shot numerous infestors.
Also when zerg has infestors in their army, they aree using so much gas it will be harder for them to get any corruptors.
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On March 23 2011 07:52 Ribbon wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2011 03:41 sleepingdog wrote:
What I really don't like is that infestors now seem to be good....ALWAYS, nearly similar to the colossus. They are godlike vs air harass, are good vs blink and are now even generally awsome aoe-damage-dealers. Not necessarily OP but definitely a too broad spectrum of usefulness. Right now I couldn't think of a situation where you "don't" want to have infestors. Zerg right now has trouble with "guessing games", determining the right units to make to counter what the opponent is doing. Infestors being useful in all cases thus isn't too bad, as long as they're not optimal in all cases.
true I agree with this. They are still great vs light and now are good vs armor. But like Idra said, it is not a gamebreaking unit. The damage is there but it is nothing compared to what the Toss Death Ball is.
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I like this because it forces toss to get templars and arcons. Rather than just "a" clicking a deathball, they have to use a lil more micro...as zerg armys are already base on flanking etc. I don't think the infestor is OP. Its fair against toss. Nothing says they can't make arcons and templars them selves. Bc we all know storm and arcons rape zerg units. Mixing in a few tempars with an army will be more important.
I think infestors really hurt in zvz, when you are facing mutas. Fungal was a very good cast with the ability to hold mutas for either infested terran or hydras to get there in time for support. My first game with this patch was a zvz. I'm 3.1k diamond and I went muta and he went infestor like 8-10 infestors. Because of the fungal only lasting 4 seconds I was more than able to fly away and continue harassing between his expo and main. His hydras could not get over in time. In addition with a 8second fungal he would have easily ripped my mutas with the infested terran he was throwing down. But I was more than able to run away with not getting hit. So for zerg I think they will have such a hard time winning a muta race where once mutas get in really large numbers it may be too hard to stop.
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i dont think it will make so much differance.a death ball is a death ball.and collos in high numbers still will own all zerg ground army.and zerg will switch to corropters then toss will switch more stalker heavy army.story cont..
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here in EU i tryed the infestor play against a Toss friend and id raped him with speed roaches. Fungel an Collossus and he is down, or neural parasite on collossus. and its fine, fungal versus his everything and roach lings kill.
i think the patch bring alot of dynamic into the game, infestor will be seen very often 
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On March 23 2011 08:38 Tumor wrote:here in EU i tryed the infestor play against a Toss friend and id raped him with speed roaches. Fungel an Collossus and he is down, or neural parasite on collossus. and its fine, fungal versus his everything and roach lings kill. i think the patch bring alot of dynamic into the game, infestor will be seen very often
sweet. Looking forward to a new meta game. tired of making corruptors to kill collossus only to be later rolled by stalkers.
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On March 23 2011 08:38 Tumor wrote:here in EU i tryed the infestor play against a Toss friend and id raped him with speed roaches. Fungel an Collossus and he is down, or neural parasite on collossus. and its fine, fungal versus his everything and roach lings kill. i think the patch bring alot of dynamic into the game, infestor will be seen very often
if your opponent is letting colos getting Neural Parasited I think that is your problem. Roaches are only 4 range, stalkers are 6 range and can have blink and deal bonus damage vs armored, which makes them very good for killing infestors
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On March 23 2011 08:29 RimJaynor wrote:
I like this because it forces toss to get templars and arcons. Rather than just "a" clicking a deathball, they have to use a lil more micro...as zerg armys are already base on flanking etc. I don't think the infestor is OP. Its fair against toss. Nothing says they can't make arcons and templars them selves. Bc we all know storm and arcons rape zerg units. Mixing in a few tempars with an army will be more important.
I think infestors really hurt in zvz, when you are facing mutas. Fungal was a very good cast with the ability to hold mutas for either infested terran or hydras to get there in time for support. My first game with this patch was a zvz. I'm 3.1k diamond and I went muta and he went infestor like 8-10 infestors. Because of the fungal only lasting 4 seconds I was more than able to fly away and continue harassing between his expo and main. His hydras could not get over in time. In addition with a 8second fungal he would have easily ripped my mutas with the infested terran he was throwing down. But I was more than able to run away with not getting hit. So for zerg I think they will have such a hard time winning a muta race where once mutas get in really large numbers it may be too hard to stop.
If he has 8 infestors he should have easily gotten a second fungal off?
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if your opponent is letting colos getting Neural Parasited I think that is your problem. Roaches are only 4 range, stalkers are 6 range and can have blink and deal bonus damage vs armored, which makes them very good for killing infestors
I think the question is, against the colsi/stalker ball with roach/infester. Are you going to lead with your stalkers and have your colsi in the back, in which case you will get fungaled over and over again. Or are you going to bring up your colsi and keep those infesters from fungaling, but open yourself up to some NP play?
Remember FG has a range of 9, which is equal to a colsi with the range upgrade, so if your colsi arnt in the front of your army, he can fungal you without getting in range.
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Does the damage for fungal stack or is it like storm in that respect?
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@Karn3
Its like storm (doesnt stack), but like storm, you can just wait for it to finish and start it again.
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Personally, I am a bit discouraged! Yeah you heard me! As a protoss player I already felt that the PvZ matchup was already zerg favored since zergs found out how to deal with the death ball. They also started to use banelings/lings based strategies that were quite good vs toss. I fear that these nerf to protoss and the buffs to infestors might make the PvZ zerg imba by far. Anyhow, let's see how the game develops!
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On March 23 2011 08:45 obsid wrote:Show nested quote +if your opponent is letting colos getting Neural Parasited I think that is your problem. Roaches are only 4 range, stalkers are 6 range and can have blink and deal bonus damage vs armored, which makes them very good for killing infestors I think the question is, against the colsi/stalker ball with roach/infester. Are you going to lead with your stalkers and have your colsi in the back, in which case you will get fungaled over and over again. Or are you going to bring up your colsi and keep those infesters from fungaling, but open yourself up to some NP play? Remember FG has a range of 9, which is equal to a colsi with the range upgrade, so if your colsi arnt in the front of your army, he can fungal you without getting in range.
This isn't viable whatsoever, the stalkers just simply shoot the infestors in this case, or the other colossus 3shot the existing infestor that's using NP. It simply won't happen.
On March 23 2011 08:57 Pureprotoss wrote:
Personally, I am a bit discouraged! Yeah you heard me! As a protoss player I already felt that the PvZ matchup was already zerg favored since zergs found out how to deal with the death ball. They also started to use banelings/lings based strategies that were quite good vs toss. I fear that these nerf to protoss and the buffs to infestors might make the PvZ zerg imba by far. Anyhow, let's see how the game develops!
I assure you that most of the community disagrees with you on this matter of it being Z favored prior 1.03.
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I assure you that most of the community disagrees with you on this matter of it being Z favored prior 1.03.
Well I am a 3100 master toss and it seems like zerg always gets the best on me. If I can't pylon their expo in time I feel I should just leave since they will be so far ahead and will roflstomp me 2mins later with mass roaches. The mass sentries expand does not seem strong enough to hold since they will just go for mass hydra or mutas after the early mass roach aggression.
I mean...maybe I just don't understand the basic of this matchup but I fear the new infestor change. It is going to be so hard for toss now. The worst will definatly be the mass mutas that will be near unstoppable without KA...
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Well, I was a Zerg until yesterday after noon, now I'm Protoss, and I'm truly not very afraid of this infestor buff...
If a Zerg is getting infestors, he's making a pretty damn big gas investment on units that aren't hydras. And what with the stun only lasting 4 seconds, why the hell wouldn't I just do stargate play? You can't support a spire AND an infestation pit without minimum 6 geisers...
I don't know why other Zergs think we're going to blindly make Colossus against Infestors... If you don't have the gas for hydras, our Colossus aren't really that cost effective. I can easily make a robo, use my observer to see what you're doing, and start pumping out Immortals. Immortals both counter roaches which is what your ground army will primarily consist of AND aren't too succeptible even to the new Fungal Growth.
I think it was a good buff, but it definitely doesn't put Zerg over the top and scared in my boots. Or for that matter: have me running back to Zerg.
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maybe protoss's will start having to use their brain to think of how to beat zerg now...
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On March 23 2011 09:05 Pureprotoss wrote:Show nested quote +I assure you that most of the community disagrees with you on this matter of it being Z favored prior 1.03. Well I am a 3100 master toss and it seems like zerg always gets the best on me. If I can't pylon their expo in time I feel I should just leave since they will be so far ahead and will roflstomp me 2mins later with mass roaches. The mass sentries expand does not seem strong enough to hold since they will just go for mass hydra or mutas after the early mass roach aggression. I mean...maybe I just don't understand the basic of this matchup but I fear the new infestor change. It is going to be so hard for toss now. The worst will definatly be the mass mutas that will be near unstoppable without KA...
Then just cannon rush them? That's what 80% of the toss do. I'm not sure if you're trying to display your credentials either, but I'm a 3900 Zerg, so if anything that backfires on you^. Not sure how in the world massing roaches right after you expand isn't an all-in you should just hold off and counter, anyways. When you're expanding I'm droning up as hard as possible with speedlings, then just focusing afterwards on holding off any potential 6gates (or the more now common 5gate) pushes that occur afterwards.
And the infestor change won't affect mutas very much, which are already incredibly gas intensive. Not like muta tech isn't getting countered by 6gate or phoenix tech at the moment anyways.
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On March 23 2011 09:00 FabledIntegral wrote:
This isn't viable whatsoever, the stalkers just simply shoot the infestors in this case, or the other colossus 3shot the existing infestor that's using NP. It simply won't happen.
Well the infesters have a range of 6, while infesters FG has a range of 9 (and a 2 radus). So that makes it hard to kill well microed infesters without blinking at them before they get FG off against the ball (although they may not be able to get a max fungal at range 7 against a very tight stalker ball that doesnt matter as much). And if they do blink forward, you got a bunch of roaches there, just FG as many as you can burrow and run away, and let your roaches chew them up (and maybe drop some IT as they are fungaled and cant blink away for a while).
If the colsi are out in front, you just dont NP 1 of the colsi, you NP all of the colsi in front at the same time. Then there are no colsi left to 3 shot your infesters. (All good toss will blink forward with thier stalkers at this point, so be ready for that and try to land at least 1-2 FG after you NP, so they cant blink forward together making your roaches more powerful).
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EPT
