EPTI’m sure Roach-Hydra-Infestor will lose to Zealot-Sentry-Stalker-Colossus just like it always did. If not, then yeah it might be overpowered. It depends how good it is vs Stalkers.
[D] ZvP 1.3 Infestors - Page 5
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Psychlone
Canada90 Posts
I’m sure Roach-Hydra-Infestor will lose to Zealot-Sentry-Stalker-Colossus just like it always did. If not, then yeah it might be overpowered. It depends how good it is vs Stalkers. | ||
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khOOM
United States87 Posts
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Terminator(471)
United States243 Posts
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Johnny_Vegas
United States239 Posts
On March 23 2011 04:25 sleepingdog wrote: I've waited for this and have the perfect answer: sentries suck vs mass-air  Nah, you are obviously right to some extent, some things you just "get" as part of a standard game where no cheese is involved. The problem with fungal now is, that imo it serves too many different purposes overall. The sentry serves the purpose of force-field and that's it. Guardian shield is a different story already. But fungal does: a) good damage b) stop blink c) prevent charge-lot-play d) preven air-harass e) reveal DTs (many people don't even know this) Now when you think about it, this covers already about 70% of the different strategical choices protoss come up with. You are afraid of DTs mid-game? Having infestors is good. Afraid of blink? Having infestors is good. Afraid of phoenix-harass? Havin infestors is good. While sentries might be a really strong unit, they serve a very specific purpose that is even tailored to a specific playstyle. Fungal now shuts down a rather broad variety of different strategies, which might criticly influence the meta-game and make the game more boring. Which is even more dangerous than imbalance. I think it might be a slight overreaction as your list of what fungal does is very similar to fungal in 1.2 with a few differences. But fungal does: a) good damage better than in 1.2 b) stop blink worse than in 1.2 because of duration nerf c) prevent charge-lot-play questionable to waste energy on mineral units unless clumped perfectly, also worse than in 1.2 d) preven air-harass worse than in 1.2 because of duration nerf, but stronger vs Voids because of damage buff I'd say e) reveal DTs (many people don't even know this) much worse than in 1.2 because of duration nerf Furthermore I think you are downplaying how ubiquitous sentries are in ZvP. If I were to look at the last 20 ZvPs in the GSL would I see a sentry in every single game? Maybe not, but I think it is going to be at least 90%. Even with the infestor buff I don't think we'll see them in 50% of the ZvPs going forward. That said, you might be right, we might see infestor in every ZvP lasting longer than 10 minutes, but I wouldn't count on it. They come late enough and cost a lot of gas, and are extremely fragile, that I think many players will continue to leave them out. I am reminded of a LeenockFou game in the GSL where he rushed to 3 infestors and was doing pretty decently, until he took his eyes off his infestors for a second and 6 stimmed marines stormed in and assassinated them all. Thats why its hard for me to see a future where Infestors reign supreme, they conflict with a lot of Zerg player's style. | ||
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teekesselchen
Germany886 Posts
Seems it all makes sense now: By making infestors into a lethal threat, Protoss will want to build HTs again for feedback, and then potentially storming as this means that HTs will be present after all. That would turn HT into an important ZvP unit, given that Zergs actually do build more infestors now. If Protoss reacts like that at all, or just goes for range 9 colossus sniping. I don't like the effect on TvP though. I always found HT-play in farspread multitasking battles much more amazing than the always-the-same colossus vs viking hunts going on where it's much harder to spread far and make a huge macro game  On March 23 2011 04:45 Johnny_Vegas wrote: I am reminded of a LeenockFou game in the GSL where he rushed to 3 infestors and was doing pretty decently, until he took his eyes off his infestors for a second and 6 stimmed marines stormed in and assassinated them all. Thats why its hard for me to see a future where Infestors reign supreme, they conflict with a lot of Zerg player's style. I think it will be possible for Zerg to combine that one day. you just cannot bind Infestors into your main army group as easily as you could do with T/P units. | ||
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Absentia
United Kingdom973 Posts
For my level of play I really feel like i've cracked players who go for the 'death ball'. Being from the EU, I haven't experienced the infestor buff. However, considering my build leaves me with stockpiled gas, it's very likely i'm going to end up incorporating infestors into my mix. Judging from the general feedback about the infestor buff it seems i'm going to have very little to worry about in PvZ now :/ | ||
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Playguuu
United States926 Posts
I don't think it's overpowered, protoss will just have to change the way they play. You can't just mass the laser death ball and a move anymore, which is important. It's not like storm since it still takes 2. | ||
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Mjolnir
912 Posts
Who wants to place bets on if/when this will get nerfed? I'll add: I hope it won't; but I'm not thrilled about the duration. I've played a few games now where that 4 seconds seemed to end almost instantly and it really makes a big difference when dealing with aerial units and harassment by fast moving ground units. EDIT: Infestors also run out of energy really fast. | ||
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Leviance
Germany4079 Posts
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andrewlt
United States7702 Posts
The game is far more interesting when people spread their units and try to hit and run instead of a-moving deathballs towards each other. The dynamic of opposing players trying to snipe and protect their casters needs to happen more. | ||
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
On March 23 2011 05:21 Leviance wrote: I was so hoping that the patch comes after GoOdy vs NesTea tbh I bet they played pre patch already. I would be surprised if they haven't played yet | ||
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knyttym
United States5797 Posts
First is there is a certain calm when protoss is gearing up for an attack and you have 4+ infestors. If you hit 6 stalkers with a single fungal that is an extra 276 damage in 4 game seconds! You just overall feel better about the midgame. Top that onto the fact that infestor + broodlord combos are awesome, and you have a pretty nice developing zvp army. Second, you get to poke protoss more now if they aren't paying attention. Protoss always had the ability to poke zerg with colossus forcefield combinations. Now having a long range damage spell gives you a taste of that ability. I mean this was true pre-patch as well but the severely decreased fungal time allows for an extremely efficient chain damage. Lastly, it is new. People love using new things so perhaps that is the reason why fungal makes me giddy. | ||
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DreamSailor
Canada433 Posts
I recently started laddering again and have been trying to use a lot of Infestors. Fungal was an awesome spell before, and I think it'll be even better now, especially in ZvZ. ZvZ Roach Infestor was my go-to because of how well Infestors can deal with Roaches (And of course, zergling/baneling), 36 damage may not seem like a whole lot, but it adds up. Looking forward to trying these changes out. | ||
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goswser
United States3548 Posts
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Serdiuk
Belgium145 Posts
On March 23 2011 05:43 Newguy wrote: How many fungals does it take to kill sentries? Can I spam 2 rounds of fungal on the ball, and then hit them with baneling + ling? Or does it take 4 fungals or something to kill sentries? Sentries have 80HP so 3 fungals I guess. That is a scary thought though. | ||
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Ryze
Canada234 Posts
I cant see infestors becoming overpowered in ZvP, against a normal 3 gate expand with hallu scouting, a protoss should be able to scout the infestation pit, notice that zerg is saving gas and know whats coming. A templar opening instead of a colossus opening seems to make more sense, you dont have to research feedback and it has a pretty good cast range that can compete with fungal growth. It takes 3 fungals to kill a sentry if you hit them all consecutively, protoss players will have to be more careful about moving out early.... | ||
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abominable
101 Posts
1. infestor more viable 2. ht more viable to counter infestor 3. zerg no longer has a rediculously hard time versus deathball 4. zerg has a game changing spell like storm and emp. protoss can counter this by spreading units and using feedback... same as ghost counter which has worked fine hence protoss not getting rolled in every pro PvT. i'd go as far as saying that this change makes zerg feel 'right'. they just didn't feel right before... they didn't really have an easy reply to "big 200/200 a-move ball". | ||
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FabledIntegral
United States9232 Posts
On March 23 2011 04:00 freetgy wrote: protoss can't tech to HTs to counter Infestors at least not on 2 bases, while Zerg surely can afford getting infestors on 2 bases. Infestor right now is a unit that is almost good against anything Protoss could throw at you. Air Units -> Fungal Charge/Blink -> fungal deathball -> fungal DTs -> fungal what left that isn't effected much by fungal? Protoss still needs AoE and getting HT won't help this cause 1 HT will always have to chose between feedback and storm (don't forget Feedback only has a range of 9 that the same as fungal, so most likely feedback can come to late.) Gateway Armies still won't be able to compete with Midgame Roach/Hydra without Colossus so colossus will always take priority. and don't forget corruption (corrupter spell) also increases the damage for the target by additional +20% You most surely cannot afford infestors on 2base unless you forgo the spire. I think the infestor change is decent but is highly overexaggerated at this point. You use make infestors --> fungal --> useless infestor afterwards. If the Protoss army isn't somehow constantly fungaled, it won't have been effected considering the toss will just regen their shields. | ||
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moonylo
Germany68 Posts
Basically you have to try harder to get a macro game now as Protoss instead of hardcore 2 basing. I thought it was quite doable for Zerg before (via counterattacking only..) but since everyone was crying so hard for a change, here it is. Nothing that actually changed something in the matchup itself, just helping zergs out to make a "counter" more obvious or lets say easier. | ||
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FabledIntegral
United States9232 Posts
On March 23 2011 06:02 moonylo wrote: The infestor change will actually help quite a bit against 2 basing protosses. While zerg is taking the whole map and Protoss is making his death ball (wether it is Voidray/Colossus or Colossus/Stalker doesnt matter), you are now allowed to take additional gases on those extra bases (which before didnt make too much sense, because you were usually more mineral heavy on units) ignoring the minerals on those in the first place. Protoss has to get Hightemplars to deal with infestors but thats not really an option staying on two base while also trying to make a deathball. Basically you have to try harder to get a macro game now as Protoss instead of hardcore 2 basing. I thought it was quite doable for Zerg before (via counterattacking only..) but since everyone was crying so hard for a change, here it is. Nothing that actually changed something in the matchup itself, just helping zergs out to make a "counter" more obvious or lets say easier. Nono, you're always limited by gas. There's no "you had enough gas." If you had more gas you'd just go heavier on the corrupter count and lower on the hydra. | ||
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