[D] ZvP 1.3 Infestors - Page 4

On March 23 2011 03:41 sleepingdog wrote:
Wow if even IdrA thinks this "could" be overpowered, then the shit is probably real serious.

Anyways, to me it doesn't seem like protoss wouldn't be equipped to handling this. What it means (at least to me) is, that I
1.) have to scout more thoroughly for infestation pit. Which just means being "meticulous" as day9 would say with my hallucinated phoenixes.
2.) have to get an early TC for some HTs with feedback.
3.) have more observers ahead of my army when moving around. Not that big of a change to my general playstyle either, since I'm used to this vs ghost-play. Getting hit by several clutch EMPs or several clutch fungals...doesn't seem to be much different.

Infestors are a huge investment, so I think I should be able to afford an earlier HT tech. Fungal and feedback have the exact same range, so if the fungal hits, so will the feedback.

Overall I think it will make the matchup more dynamic and - hopefully - there will be less QQ. I believe and hope that this change will give the zergs the much needed buff to deal with LOWSKILLED (!!) players who just a-move their deathball around.

On March 23 2011 03:56 Breach_hu wrote:
First fungal on toss' units are dealing the vs. non-armored damage yes? I mean on the shields. And the first fungal isn't as deadly as the second one. Againts the colo or the immortal its only the 1/3 of their shield.

On March 23 2011 03:26 ShamTao wrote:
This will pry open the matchup a little bit I feel, and help heal 1a deathball syndrome (of which I am still afflicted. Here's what this may force out of the protoss player:

1) greater unit splits when engaging a zerg and chillin' round the base

2) Colossus micro to nail infestors - Colossi with the range upgrade will outrange fungal, and so there would be a window where the infestor can die giving no damage

3) HT and feedback use- similar to the ghost/HT dance that can occur, there may be a similar result in PvZ from this change between infestor/HT

4) Better scouting for when the infestor tech is thrown up. Zerg players may want to take advantage of infestors in the midgame, but a Protoss player who is wary of this will be able to gauge what the zerg's gas income would be, making 3rd base denial a much more critical endeavor.

On the side, some of the comments in this thread are atrocious. Stopping the 4 gate? do people even know how tech works in this game?

On March 23 2011 03:56 sleepingdog wrote:


I've edited something in, but I wanna emphazise this again.
I don't necessarily think that such a "hard" counter is bad in itself. I mean, we protoss-players had our good share of hard-counters with the colossus vs hydras...they just melt away, they still do. So having an aoe-spell that is very effective vs pure armored units (read: stalkers) isn't necessarily imba in my eyes.

My problem though is, that getting infestors doesn't seem to be much of a "strategical" choice now because infestors are good to have at basicly every point in time. Good vs air, good vs blink, good as an aoe-spell overall. Oh yeah, a hard-counter vs CHARGE as well (even though nobody gets chargelots).

I think it will be very possible to counter infestor play with HTs, but still this isn't really a "hard" counter since getting HTs for feedback is really expensive in itself. I still need to get my stalkers/colossi to deal with roach/hydra. So - theory-craft-wise - I don't see a way how I could possibly punish infestor play. Again, not something imbalanced, but something that doesn't seem to be 100% right in a strategy game. A unit that you always wanna have....but I think I'll stop writing now, this is just too much theory-craft. Real games have to show how the stuff works out.

On March 23 2011 03:56 sleepingdog wrote:


I've edited something in, but I wanna emphazise this again.
I don't necessarily think that such a "hard" counter is bad in itself. I mean, we protoss-players had our good share of hard-counters with the colossus vs hydras...they just melt away, they still do. So having an aoe-spell that is very effective vs pure armored units (read: stalkers) isn't necessarily imba in my eyes.

My problem though is, that getting infestors doesn't seem to be much of a "strategical" choice now because infestors are good to have at basicly every point in time. Good vs air, good vs blink, good as an aoe-spell overall. Oh yeah, a hard-counter vs CHARGE as well (even though nobody gets chargelots).

I think it will be very possible to counter infestor play with HTs, but still this isn't really a "hard" counter since getting HTs for feedback is really expensive in itself. I still need to get my stalkers/colossi to deal with roach/hydra. So - theory-craft-wise - I don't see a way how I could possibly punish infestor play. Again, not something imbalanced, but something that doesn't seem to be 100% right in a strategy game. A unit that you always wanna have....but I think I'll stop writing now, this is just too much theory-craft. Real games have to show how the stuff works out.

On March 23 2011 04:10 sleepingdog wrote:


To be fair, I can remember back in beta when people would FREAK OUT of the mere thought of banelings raining down onto their mineral-lines wiping out everything.

And how many baneling bombs into mineral lines do we see in PvZ? Uhhm....yeah...I think you got my point
It does seem good on paper, but one cannon near the wall will reveal burrowed infestors, and dropping infestors seems crazy considering how big of a loss this would be if I noticed it in time and sent my stalkers to the ledge.

Blue flame hellions are far cheaper, deal damage in an even more ridiculous fashion and normally don't "break" games either.

On March 23 2011 04:04 ReNhoSoft wrote:
Well said sleepingdog. One of the things I'll be scared of now is how damn fast infestors can snipe a whole mineral line. It takes 8sec to kill workers using only fungal wroth. And what's even worse, you can't retreat your workers so once the first Fungal hits they're dead. Better keep a close eye on the minimap.