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On March 23 2011 01:53 BinxyBrown wrote:
Fawking Goomba, you will see infestors replace banes in the vs Terran match up, first of all its harder to avoid fungal than it is to avoid banes, 2 fungals will now kill marines in like 5 seconds instead of 10.
No. Infestors versus marines are used primarily for the immobilization, which allows for lings/banes to get to them without them stimming away. 2 Fungals always killed marines, and the dps increase versus medivacs is not a huge deal unless your opponent has more medivacs than he has marines. The reason this is a nerf versus marines is the same reason that it is a nerf versus phoenix.
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On March 23 2011 02:27 obsid wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2011 02:22 freetgy wrote:
well Fungal is now officially better than Storm.
Well thats not true. 36 damage is nothing compared to the 80 damage of storm (even if your good and get out of the storm quickly your going to take 36 damage easily). FG is now alot more similar to storm (in that its DPS is higher, but its snare is less), but it isnt "better" just diffrent. Oh and if your going through all the advantages of an infester shouldnt you mention feedback for the HT which can insta kill an infester (and a lot of other units).
Storm can be microed out of to minimize damage. Not only does Infestor have a larger radius of AOE but it locks units in place for 4 secs. I'm not saying it's better than storm but definitely can hold it's own against it now.
The thing with feedback and templars against zerg is that it's a HUGE investment in gas. Protoss already need to sink huge amounts of gas in sentries. Without sentries, protoss army is practically dead early-midgame.
Usually on 2 base (which is the infestor timing I am talking about) there is no way that a protoss is going to have 3-4 colossus AND templars with a high sentry count. If my infestors force protoss to tech the path of twilight council into storm, that is something most zergs is more comfortable than deal with colossus balls (pre-patch).
I would much rather have a battle between templar and infestor where micro matters. Hypothetically speaking, if I micro better than a toss (Fungals off before feedback) then I should have an advantage in the battle. However, if I get feed back before fungals then the toss should have advantage.
A lot of the frustration was that with ZvP was that colossus/sentry/stalkers balls were almost unmicroable on the zerg side. If the toss laid perfect forcefields, the zerg was doomed. There was no chance to micro. This, however, is another entirely different topic.
The thing is with this infestor buff is that if templars aren't mixed into toss armies then they will have to deal with fungal spam, which exactly is what this build, thread, topic is discussing.
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I can't say that I even like the design of fungal growth. I don't think a damage spell suits zerg.
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On March 23 2011 02:35 Dagobert wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2011 01:45 PeaNuT_T wrote:
Basicly what the new infestor is gonna be able to do is.
1# Stop VR rushes
2# Stop Blink stalker rushes
3# Zergs are gonna be able to do Roach infestor rushes and just fungle the immortal
4# 4 Gate will be much weaker if you have infestors out.
So this was a genius move by Blizzard to fix ZvP Stop rushes? Takes forever to get infestors out and if you rush to infestors you won't have anything to counter gateway units with.
I just like that its a game changing late game unit that doesnt require you to clear up your supply. *cough* ultras.
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All I'm gonna say is next time I see bio balls I'm just gonna LOL.
The entire spell is different now. Instead of an ensnare, its more of a plague right now. Its the GOD AOE spell, on some fronts even better than storm. So there's a lot that is going to change across the board.
I'm already using Infestors ZvT in most of my games thanks to Mrbitter. And they do fine there, being able to just blitz bio apart even quicker now will only help to my advantage.
In ZvZ I think its a welcome change. Although Infestor roach was really good, it wasn't as good as roach/hydra. I believe that we will see a lot more roach/infestor play. Which means Ultra's will come after that, and hydra's to counter the ultra's to make a full circle.
In ZvP its gonna change its role completely. From a more or less anti mass-phoenix spell, to an anti armoured ball spell. I'm not really a fan of infestors in ZvP anyway since HT's are so handy against them, and hts can't counter baneling drops as well as infestors. But I can see them becoming the norm against stargate play.
Overall, I think its different. Wether this change is good or bad we still have to see. Zerg was lacking a good ranged power AoE spell and it has gotten it now, but it has more or less given up its ability to delay pushes a lot. So I really don't know how this will pan out.
The only direct response I'm gonna do is incorporate infestors in my ZvZ the instant the patch goes online.
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I think this change is a well-needed buff against some of the compositions that Zerg is facing right now but I hardly think it's a game-changer. Gas for Zerg is already a precious commodity and spending the 100 gas on the Infestation Pit, energy upgrade, AND 150 gas for each Infestor is a serious investment into tech.
The early/mid game is unaffected, the late game may or may not shift drastically but will definitely help Zerg late game comps deal with some of the Protoss death balls.
Infestors are already a pretty integral part of ZvZ so I do think it will change that matchup the most.
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I am really curious about if the changes will affect voidray/colossus.
Voidray is NOT an armored unit so the bonus damage does not apply
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On March 23 2011 02:55 MapleLeafSirup wrote:
I am really curious about if the changes will affect voidray/colossus.
Voidray is NOT an armored unit so the bonus damage does not apply
Wrong, it is armored.
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Actually using infestors is still gonna be really hard with their low health but i think itll actually be worth it to get them now. can't wait :D. Zerg's ZvP units feel so horribly boring and 1 dimensional, the race definitely needed the infestor to become a viable unit.
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On March 23 2011 02:36 FawkingGoomba wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2011 01:53 BinxyBrown wrote:
Fawking Goomba, you will see infestors replace banes in the vs Terran match up, first of all its harder to avoid fungal than it is to avoid banes, 2 fungals will now kill marines in like 5 seconds instead of 10. No. Infestors versus marines are used primarily for the immobilization, which allows for lings/banes to get to them without them stimming away. 2 Fungals always killed marines, and the dps increase versus medivacs is not a huge deal unless your opponent has more medivacs than he has marines. The reason this is a nerf versus marines is the same reason that it is a nerf versus phoenix.
They can out DPS a medivac now though which will, if not outright kill the marines, severely reduce medivac energy. Seems like a good compromise to me,
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I think the change will be good for Zerg, and I hope it is. What it means is that I will be fielding templar more often to feedback and storm. So perhaps blizzard thought of that when they nerfed the HT :D
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On March 23 2011 02:30 PassiveAce wrote:
I'm not sure if this has been discussed, but doesnt halving the duration also double the energy expense of FG (I dont mean per spell obviously, i mean over the same period of time)? Maybe this will provide some respite.
Depends on what you mean...
The damage is the same (as in 36 damage over 4 seconds instead of 36 damage over 8 seconds). So energy/damage is the same.
Yes, for the duration, to hold something for 8 seconds, you need to do 2 fungals. This is definitely a downside... but whether or not the damage increase makes it better has yet to be seen. I still haven't really seen infestors used to super-great effect. Every time that people in the GSL get them they just seem to die.
I'd almost rather see Fungal have a corruption-like effect (in addition to the snare) where units affected take an extra 20% damage. Making the thing do storm-like DPS doesn't seem to be an answer... but maybe it'll be effective. We'll just have to see.
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On March 23 2011 02:55 MapleLeafSirup wrote:
I am really curious about if the changes will affect voidray/colossus.
Voidray is NOT an armored unit so the bonus damage does not apply
I'm fairly certain Voidrays are armored units, yes?
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On March 23 2011 03:01 SubtleArt wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2011 02:36 FawkingGoomba wrote:On March 23 2011 01:53 BinxyBrown wrote:
Fawking Goomba, you will see infestors replace banes in the vs Terran match up, first of all its harder to avoid fungal than it is to avoid banes, 2 fungals will now kill marines in like 5 seconds instead of 10. No. Infestors versus marines are used primarily for the immobilization, which allows for lings/banes to get to them without them stimming away. 2 Fungals always killed marines, and the dps increase versus medivacs is not a huge deal unless your opponent has more medivacs than he has marines. The reason this is a nerf versus marines is the same reason that it is a nerf versus phoenix. They can out DPS a medivac now though which will, if not outright kill the marines, severely reduce medivac energy. Seems like a good compromise to me,
They always did this. The damage to marines is unchanged.
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On March 23 2011 03:03 karak567 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2011 02:55 MapleLeafSirup wrote:
I am really curious about if the changes will affect voidray/colossus.
Voidray is NOT an armored unit so the bonus damage does not apply I'm fairly certain Voidrays are armored units, yes?
Yea sorry, you are right
They are armored even though their armor value is 0
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i've been trying to use infestors vp recently, but i find it difficult to actually reach the deathball without dying. generally i can get off a single fungal and then it dies to 9 range colossus. is this the right way to use them? do you send them in a clump or one by one? do you send them before the army or with it?
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ZvZ feels soooooooo weird now... I just beat a +1 roach timing push with 3 infestors and a smattering of +1 lings. Fungals DESTROY roaches. I kind of want to try some type of hydra ling infestor play... hmmm
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how much damage does the +30percent deal? wouldent it really only be like 8 more damage?
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On March 23 2011 01:45 PeaNuT_T wrote:
Basicly what the new infestor is gonna be able to do is.
1# Stop VR rushes
2# Stop Blink stalker rushes
3# Zergs are gonna be able to do Roach infestor rushes and just fungle the immortal
4# 4 Gate will be much weaker if you have infestors out.
So this was a genius move by Blizzard to fix ZvP
Rofl, shut up, now. Clown.
By saying something like 4 Gate will be weaker because you will have infestors out just shows how little understanding you have of the match-up. Just jumping on the bandwagon & whining won't hide that you're still <Diamond.
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i think its 38.5/50 vs light /armored
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EPT
