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On March 23 2011 01:47 FawkingGoomba wrote:
It's definitely a buff ZvP, and will help vs the deathball. But I think we will actually see less infestors ZvT, since the long stun vs marines was its main use in that matchup. Won't do much versus tanks/thors still.
Well the DPS of fungal is now quite good even if they got medivacs, the DPS of fungal is greater then the medivac healing. I agree that it isnt as good against tanks and thors, but that is why infester has nerual parasite. Also one thing I dont think people think about enough, is going to be starting with roaches (which stop blue flame hellions, and force marauders), then switch into infesters which kill marauders very badly now after the patch.
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On March 23 2011 02:02 obsid wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2011 01:47 FawkingGoomba wrote:
It's definitely a buff ZvP, and will help vs the deathball. But I think we will actually see less infestors ZvT, since the long stun vs marines was its main use in that matchup. Won't do much versus tanks/thors still. Well the DPS of fungal is now quite good even if they got medivacs, the DPS of fungal is greater then the medivac healing. I agree that it isnt as good against tanks and thors, but that is why infester has nerual parasite. Also one thing I dont think people think about enough, is going to be starting with roaches (which stop blue flame hellions, and force marauders), then switch into infesters which kill marauders very badly now after the patch.
ye you can probably actually kill marines with (multiple) fungal now, rather than just free up some medivac energy.
also, medivacs are armored.
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On March 23 2011 01:57 DTown wrote:Exactly. I think this is the real story in ZvP. It was hard enough to stop these buggers with the 8 second immobilization. Now the fungal does half that while dealing the same puny damage, albeit a bit faster.
Corrupters beat pnoenix play and you already need them to limit collosus numbers. Does the lift ability even work on a burrowed unit, even with detection?
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Hm, roach infestor could work quite well against Terran as long as you get neural in time for siege...
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The metagame is absolutely going to change to reflect how powerful fungal is now. Phoenix openings are going to be so much more powerful now as they force a lot more AA (and good as they are, it's damn hard to fungal air units that move SO FAST). As it was if the Toss was able to make the lategame with an even footing and decently large army they could just steamroll through zerg bases. It's going to be a lot tougher now.
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so we all agree, that it's a buff and makes the tvz matchup more interesting and less deathball focussed. i like.
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On March 23 2011 01:57 DTown wrote:Exactly. I think this is the real story in ZvP. It was hard enough to stop these buggers with the 8 second immobilization. Now the fungal does half that while dealing the same puny damage, albeit a bit faster.
Yep, more variety, more Templars and Phoenixes in ZvP, less Roaches in ZvZ. Good stuff.
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Personally I'm excited for the mid/late game harassment options the changes in the strength of infestor DPS opens up. This change is definitely going to increase the diversity of zerg playstyles.
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I think the best thing will be that it won't necessarily become #1 priority (make or break the whole match) to destroy a Protoss player's 3rd base. Although they will still be powerful on 3base, this buff will allow Zergs to combat the giant deathball that have caused so many problems for amateur/pro Zergs alike.
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Well, Zerg has desperately needed something that the other races actually fear for quite a while now, I hope this change has some effect.
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I feel like this is not the magic bullet Zerg players think it is, but I want to play with it some more before I say anything too specific on the topic -- as a Toss player, my time on the PTR just taught me to stack more phoenixes to graviton beam the infestors. Granted, this is not an ideal solution (and being reliant on one unit to counter one unit that counters almost everything in my arsenal with one spell when used correctly isnt my cup of tea) but I think most smart toss will change their game up to include a Stargate a little sooner -- for two reasons:
1. most zerg that I play start their offensive with Roaches, which Starport acts as a direct counter to
2. most zerg that I play only tech to Hydras if I give them a reason to in the form of taking air dominance (but in most games, Im heavy gateway stacked with colos backing them up with a few VRs and Phoenixes -- Phoenixes are usually relegated to Overlord detail, so this changes their role *slightly*)
I feel like judicious use of the Starport units is the key (as it always has been against Zerg) so Im not stressing as a strictly protoss player.
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On March 23 2011 02:04 snow2.0 wrote:
also, medivacs are armored.
Good point, I have been playing on the PTR for the last month and hadnt quite realized this. 3 FG to kill a medivac (now with the +30%), or only need 8 in game seconds (like 5 real seconds) to kill a big group of medivacs.
I think the infester change is going to KILL the MMM builds. And heavy thor means NP is going to be better vr terran.
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well Fungal is now officially better than Storm.
we have now a "Storm" with garanteed damage, better AoE Radius, immobilizing advantage infestor is faster has more health and can burrowmove and is cheaper and faster to get.
Way to Buff Zerg
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I just might have to copy the koreans and get at least one stargate when i expand, i actually think getting VR-phoenix-phoenix potentially denies a lot of things like roach busts and potentially forces hydras. Maybe we could go phoenix/colossus instead of VR/colossus and get just enough phoenixes to harass but not enough to the point where mass corrupter would roll it over? i do think that the infestor buff is a good thing and maybe P should just adapt because VR?colossus was kind of dumb and boring anyways.
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On March 23 2011 02:22 freetgy wrote:
well Fungal is now officially better than Storm.
Well thats not true. 36 damage is nothing compared to the 80 damage of storm (even if your good and get out of the storm quickly your going to take 36 damage easily). FG is now alot more similar to storm (in that its DPS is higher, but its snare is less), but it isnt "better" just diffrent.
Oh and if your going through all the advantages of an infester shouldnt you mention feedback for the HT which can insta kill an infester (and a lot of other units).
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I think in ZvP ling/bane/infestor -> ultra will become MUCH more viable than it is now (it's already fairly viable), it may even become standard.
in addition roach/infestor may be viable mid-game against robo tech.
Lastly, having 5-7 infestors late-game against a colo/void/stalker deathball could potentially deal huge amounts of damage, and actually allow a roach/hydra/corruptor army to engage a protoss maxed army.
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think about why no Protoss goes Storm in PvP, and why now every Zerg wants to go Fungal against Protoss.
it is funny that people think an average Storm does more than 40 damage...
Storm is now only better in the damage part if the opponent is stupid enough to stay in Storm.
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As a protoss player im a little disheartened by the change, but I'm looking forward to the ways that people come up to deal with it. I think that Feedback will see a little more action now, but i think most people will try to beat it with strong timing pushes. Someone mentioned the 6 gate +1 push which i find to be exceptionally strong vs Z. it seems like people are looking for a way to neutralize Infestors before they are able to get off the FG's, but I look forward to seeing how the Pro's adjust.
I'm not sure if this has been discussed, but doesnt halving the duration also double the energy expense of FG (I dont mean per spell obviously, i mean over the same period of time)? Maybe this will provide some respite.
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All i have to say is FEEDBACK in PvZ is now much more useful.
You always get your templars in pvt now you can get them in pvz as well.
I'm not here to argue, so think what you will and experiment in the main time.
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On March 23 2011 01:45 PeaNuT_T wrote:
Basicly what the new infestor is gonna be able to do is.
1# Stop VR rushes
2# Stop Blink stalker rushes
3# Zergs are gonna be able to do Roach infestor rushes and just fungle the immortal
4# 4 Gate will be much weaker if you have infestors out.
So this was a genius move by Blizzard to fix ZvP
Stop rushes? Takes forever to get infestors out and if you rush to infestors you won't have anything to counter gateway units with.
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EPT
