• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 11:57
CEST 17:57
KST 00:57
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Season 1 - Final Week6[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall15HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)16Code S RO4 & Finals Preview: herO, Rogue, Classic, GuMiho0
Community News
Esports World Cup 2025 - Brackets Revealed17Weekly Cups (July 7-13): Classic continues to roll8Team TLMC #5 - Submission extension3Firefly given lifetime ban by ESIC following match-fixing investigation17$25,000 Streamerzone StarCraft Pro Series announced7
StarCraft 2
General
Heaven's Balance Suggestions (roast me) The Memories We Share - Facing the Final(?) GSL Who will win EWC 2025? Esports World Cup 2025 - Brackets Revealed RSL Revival patreon money discussion thread
Tourneys
Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series $5,100+ SEL Season 2 Championship (SC: Evo)
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 482 Wheel of Misfortune Mutation # 481 Fear and Lava Mutation # 480 Moths to the Flame Mutation # 479 Worn Out Welcome
Brood War
General
BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Flash Announces (and Retracts) Hiatus From ASL Soulkey Muta Micro Map? BW General Discussion [ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall
Tourneys
CSL Xiamen International Invitational [Megathread] Daily Proleagues 2025 ACS Season 2 Qualifier Cosmonarchy Pro Showmatches
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers I am doing this better than progamers do.
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread CCLP - Command & Conquer League Project The PlayStation 5
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
The Games Industry And ATVI Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine US Politics Mega-thread Stop Killing Games - European Citizens Initiative
Fan Clubs
SKT1 Classic Fan Club! Maru Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Korean Music Discussion Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Ping To Win? Pings And Their…
TrAiDoS
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 744 users

Extremely early lair + overlord speed Zerg opening

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
Post a Reply
1 2 3 4 Next All
ultoma
Profile Joined February 2011
30 Posts
March 15 2011 20:33 GMT
#1
I've been toying around with getting lair on the first 100 gas and overlord speed on the 100 gas. I delay my zergling speed after these first 2 upgrades. Has anyone played around with something like this?

I've been catching cheese much easier, since i have overlords going over my opponents base every 30 seconds or so. I've had ppl cancel buildings to throw me off, but with the overlord speed, you can go back for another look and catch ppl playing mind games.

What do you guys think about something like this? I have refined it at all, but getting lair really quickly has many great benefits. You can get roach speed so much faster and you're not susceptible to a lot of cheeses.

Any thoughts and criticism are appreciated.
merLO
Profile Joined October 2010
19 Posts
March 15 2011 20:39 GMT
#2
I do only offrace zerg, so there are definitely more suitable posters, but the more important question is are you opening hatch first?

My assumption is no, and your opting for a delayed 2nd hatch as well as just slow zerglings which just get kited by everything. I think hatch first (especially on the new maps) into speedlings into speedovis is much more solid...especially if you get a quick +1. More often then not the only clue you need is whether they expanded (not to mention you can usually steal the 2nd gas)..
obsid
Profile Joined November 2008
United States389 Posts
March 15 2011 20:42 GMT
#3
Fast two rax play or some stalker preasure kill the no ling speed player. How do you plan on stopping that?
Grackodile
Profile Joined January 2011
United States263 Posts
March 15 2011 20:44 GMT
#4
Do you even expo? Also how do you defend early all ins/timings if you are using money so early that isn't focused on economy or units?
MLG: How is your Protoss? Idra: I make Blink Stalkers, so really, really good.
P0ckets
Profile Joined January 2011
United States430 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-15 20:44:48
March 15 2011 20:44 GMT
#5
This doesn’t seem like a terrible idea, but it definitely makes it hard to deal with any really early pressure since you will be producing roaches later and have slowlings. For this to work out you would have to put up some serious static defense. You are not skipping a queen production or the FE right?
TechBanana
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada12 Posts
March 15 2011 20:45 GMT
#6
How much success do you have with this build against early pressure builds such as a 4gate or a 2 rax marine bunker play?

I really think that you might have something here, except that it may be worth getting ling speed first to use them to pressure/scout, and then once lings are not a viable option then the overlords with speed would be a good way to scout as zerg. This would slow your transition to speed roaches, but i belive you would find that you have more map control.

From a Toss point of view, if your not applying pressure with early speed lings trying to bait forcefeilds, i think the amount of forcefeilds i would have saved up would be quite able to combat speed roaches.

Post a replay if you can.
Karthane
Profile Joined June 2010
United States1183 Posts
March 15 2011 20:46 GMT
#7
There is really no point to sacrifice so much to tech this early. There is nothing you can't see by just saccing an overlord around the 5 minute mark. And skipping speed? You are just asking to die to any kind of early push.
Zintis
Profile Joined May 2010
41 Posts
March 15 2011 20:47 GMT
#8
I agree, as much as having those upgrades is a boon your general economy will be stunted with out dealing any damage to them. I forsee you getting all these upgrades just to get run over by a small force because you don't have enough stuff. Maybe if you used the overlord goop to make spines at his entrance. But again its very gimmicky.
Darclite
Profile Joined January 2011
United States1021 Posts
March 15 2011 20:49 GMT
#9
You just need to make sure you aren't getting hit by anything early because your early game will be very weak but your midgame will be great.

I'd recommend that you toy around with this more, but a few suggestions.
- Getting drop really fast. Really fast. Maybe try some infestor + 4 zerglings to just wreck a mineral line. (I know people will think to just get banelings, but you might as well get tech.
- Roach/infestor play with tunneling claws.It's like getting cloak at seven minutes lol.
- Getting some spine crawlers.
- Using the surprise of the tech units to double-expand perhaps

Sorry if these aren't the best suggestions, it's an unusual build. Still, work on it, SC2 needs more diversity.
They're fools. You should eat them.
ultoma
Profile Joined February 2011
30 Posts
March 15 2011 20:51 GMT
#10
hey guys: thanks a lot for the feedback.

Like i said, it's not something i've hardly refined and I know that any early pressure will be hard to stop. To be frank, i got tired of being cheesed and thought this up randomly. Now, i'm putting it to the test.

I skip my queen for a quick lair and get overlord speed before my first queen. This doesn't mean that what i'm doing is right, it just means i'm still trying out all the variables. I expo later (early 20 food).

Also, any early pressure that comes my way, i rely on static defense and a lot of slow lings. Because i won't have speed, i'm hoping the sheer number of slow lings will stop the pressure.

Again, this has it's problems and i know that, but i'm trying to figure out a way to stop cheese. Btw, you can catch 4 gate with relative ease and even though you might now have speed up, you'll definitely have more units since you'll know that a 4 gate is coming.

So, i suppose you make urself somewhat vulnerable in order to catch a cheese or 4 gate much, much earlier.

let me know what you guys think. I'll be toying around with this in some custom games.
CookieMaker
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Canada880 Posts
March 15 2011 20:52 GMT
#11
OP better please. Ways to do this include:
1. Posting replays
2. Posting replays
3. Posting replays
4. Elaborate on your build order
Micro your Macro
Jeffbelittle
Profile Joined August 2010
United States468 Posts
March 15 2011 20:56 GMT
#12
This sounds like a great idea; however, I may play around with it that my first 100 gas is a lair, and just get an overseer.

I think roaches and 2 crawlers or so would hold off 2 Rax/ 4 gate aggression given the roaches will be fighting on creep.

I hope this thread gets more ideas similar to this going.
GinDo
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
3327 Posts
March 15 2011 20:56 GMT
#13
I strongly recommend you read this.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=113479

Gratz on Fifth post.
ⱩŦ ƑⱠẬ$Ħ / ƩǤ ɈƩẬƉØƝǤ [ɌȻ] / ȊṂ.ṂṼⱣ / ẬȻƩɌ.ȊƝƝØṼẬŦȊØƝ / ẬȻƩɌ.ϟȻẬɌⱠƩŦŦ ϟⱠẬɎƩɌϟ ȻⱠẬƝ
decaf
Profile Joined October 2010
Austria1797 Posts
March 15 2011 20:59 GMT
#14
This is not viable at all.
You will delay your expo/mine less minerals.
You will die to any 2rax pressure that is followed up with an allin, since you simply won't have any banelings.
Your zergling speed will be tremendously delayed.
You will die to any 4gate. In fact you will die to any heavly early pressure.
You will also have your lair way before you need it. You simply don't need speed roaches that early. Not even speaking about mutas you couldn't afford anyways.

This won't work in higher leagues, I guarantee.
lorkac
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States2297 Posts
March 15 2011 21:00 GMT
#15
Would forgoing overlord speed and instead depending on spine crawlers built on overlord creep be a good way to expand?

Spend 100 gas on an Overseer to allow for faster queen production.

Depend on Infestor/Spines to survive into the midgame?

This is all theorycraft of course, when I have time I'll test it on 1v1obs.
By the truth we are undone. Life is a dream. Tis waking that kills us. He who robs us of our dreams robs us of our life --Orlando: A Biography
navy
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada197 Posts
March 15 2011 21:01 GMT
#16
interesting idea, but what matchup?

To be honest though;
With no inject from no queen you WILL lose to a push, but you could do without the zergling speed with the right preparations.

If you dont FE with this, you will most likely need a queen before you start lair.

Else, off one base, what you scout couldn't matter less when you will never have the economy you should due to your ignoring zerg's macro mechanic.

In zvz it might work off one base but you would need spines, and you would need your queen before ovie speed. I'm 100% sure of that.

In zvp and zvt, i think that you most likely need your queen before hand if its off one base.
If its off a fast expand, you could do with getting your queen there and defending with all spines, or roaches or something.

Its a cool idea because you can get really quick scouting and even contaminates.
Uhnno
Profile Joined February 2011
Netherlands288 Posts
March 15 2011 21:02 GMT
#17
How do you plan on stopping a well timed 4gate with slowlings and no speedwhatsoever? I don't know the exact timing, but assuming you get lair + oviespeed asap, isn't it already too late? It doesn't actually help defending a 4gate whatsoever. If I see a zerg on 1 base and fast teching to lair, a 1base timing push often wins or massively cripply him right there. Slowlings vs FFs is also not really ideal if the opponent doesn't decide to all in you.
ultoma
Profile Joined February 2011
30 Posts
March 15 2011 21:03 GMT
#18
[url blocked]

Guys, if i'm doing anything wrong with this post, you can take it down. I have to be honest: i made an assumption that i could come here and just discuss a strategy i'm using. If that's against the rules, you can take it down.

Anywho, if it isn't, i just posted a replay. This replay is literally the 3rd time i tried it, so it needs a lot of work. But, you can get a feel for what i'm roughing trying to achieve.

Please feel free to try it yourself and come back here and give details and how we can make something like this work. It needs a lot of work, but perhaps some good can come from it.

Begx
Profile Joined September 2010
Sweden8 Posts
March 15 2011 21:04 GMT
#19
scouting the front. You can see a lot by having a ling on his ramp, also he needs to make a proxy pylon, have a speedling patrol around the map and two on the xel'naga. You seem afraid of early pressure builds, but what if they get an expo you can't go bust them down or beat them in the eco game. Also if you can defend a 4gate or whatever has you with this build, you'd be able to defend it and be so far ahead he would have to GG or play a painful game where you just overrun him at 10min mark

Your basicly getting early tech to delay everything else, if your going for this build you NEED to get banelings and use droblings with success to get ahead else your going to be so behind.

Also mind you, Gas is not a free resource, it comes at the cost of minerals early game.
Miami vice, my number #1 show!
Xanbatou
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States805 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-15 21:06:22
March 15 2011 21:05 GMT
#20
I really don't think this is that great a strategy. Against protoss in particular, by the time your speed upgraded overlorder floats over their base, they should be just about ready for a 4gate. I think you would have a hard time holding it off unless you have been preparing for the 4gate anyways. But if you have been doing that, why do this fast ovie speed build at all?

Also, if the opponent does some sort of early expand build, I think you will be significantly behind since you won't be able to pressure him as well with speedless lings.
1 2 3 4 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
PSISTORM Gaming Misc
15:55
FSL Team League: PTB vs RR
Freeedom0
Liquipedia
Epic.LAN
12:00
Epic.LAN 45 Playoffs Stage
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Hui .327
RotterdaM 255
Vindicta 51
StarCraft: Brood War
Barracks 1531
Larva 872
Soma 735
Mini 694
Hyuk 460
actioN 412
firebathero 388
TY 311
Hyun 91
Aegong 45
[ Show more ]
Terrorterran 17
GoRush 11
SilentControl 8
Dota 2
Gorgc13493
singsing3519
qojqva1430
LuMiX1
Counter-Strike
Stewie2K938
sgares902
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor531
Other Games
Lowko205
Beastyqt123
KnowMe87
ArmadaUGS73
Trikslyr57
Rex10
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick2545
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 16 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• poizon28 45
• Adnapsc2 16
• Legendk 11
• LUISG 10
• IndyKCrew
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• sooper7s
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
League of Legends
• Nemesis4066
• Jankos1542
Upcoming Events
CSO Contender
1h 3m
Sparkling Tuna Cup
18h 3m
Online Event
1d
Esports World Cup
2 days
ByuN vs Astrea
Lambo vs HeRoMaRinE
Clem vs TBD
Solar vs Zoun
SHIN vs Reynor
Maru vs TriGGeR
herO vs Lancer
Cure vs ShoWTimE
Esports World Cup
3 days
Esports World Cup
4 days
Esports World Cup
5 days
CranKy Ducklings
6 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL Xiamen Invitational: ShowMatche
RSL Revival: Season 1
Murky Cup #2

Ongoing

BSL 2v2 Season 3
Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
BSL20 Non-Korean Championship
CSL Xiamen Invitational
2025 ACS Season 2
Championship of Russia 2025
Underdog Cup #2
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25

Upcoming

CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
BSL Season 21
RSL Revival: Season 2
SEL Season 2 Championship
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
FEL Cracov 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.