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I've been toying around with getting lair on the first 100 gas and overlord speed on the 100 gas. I delay my zergling speed after these first 2 upgrades. Has anyone played around with something like this?
I've been catching cheese much easier, since i have overlords going over my opponents base every 30 seconds or so. I've had ppl cancel buildings to throw me off, but with the overlord speed, you can go back for another look and catch ppl playing mind games.
What do you guys think about something like this? I have refined it at all, but getting lair really quickly has many great benefits. You can get roach speed so much faster and you're not susceptible to a lot of cheeses.
Any thoughts and criticism are appreciated.
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I do only offrace zerg, so there are definitely more suitable posters, but the more important question is are you opening hatch first?
My assumption is no, and your opting for a delayed 2nd hatch as well as just slow zerglings which just get kited by everything. I think hatch first (especially on the new maps) into speedlings into speedovis is much more solid...especially if you get a quick +1. More often then not the only clue you need is whether they expanded (not to mention you can usually steal the 2nd gas)..
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Fast two rax play or some stalker preasure kill the no ling speed player. How do you plan on stopping that?
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Do you even expo? Also how do you defend early all ins/timings if you are using money so early that isn't focused on economy or units?
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This doesn’t seem like a terrible idea, but it definitely makes it hard to deal with any really early pressure since you will be producing roaches later and have slowlings. For this to work out you would have to put up some serious static defense. You are not skipping a queen production or the FE right?
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How much success do you have with this build against early pressure builds such as a 4gate or a 2 rax marine bunker play?
I really think that you might have something here, except that it may be worth getting ling speed first to use them to pressure/scout, and then once lings are not a viable option then the overlords with speed would be a good way to scout as zerg. This would slow your transition to speed roaches, but i belive you would find that you have more map control.
From a Toss point of view, if your not applying pressure with early speed lings trying to bait forcefeilds, i think the amount of forcefeilds i would have saved up would be quite able to combat speed roaches.
Post a replay if you can.
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There is really no point to sacrifice so much to tech this early. There is nothing you can't see by just saccing an overlord around the 5 minute mark. And skipping speed? You are just asking to die to any kind of early push.
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I agree, as much as having those upgrades is a boon your general economy will be stunted with out dealing any damage to them. I forsee you getting all these upgrades just to get run over by a small force because you don't have enough stuff. Maybe if you used the overlord goop to make spines at his entrance. But again its very gimmicky.
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You just need to make sure you aren't getting hit by anything early because your early game will be very weak but your midgame will be great.
I'd recommend that you toy around with this more, but a few suggestions. - Getting drop really fast. Really fast. Maybe try some infestor + 4 zerglings to just wreck a mineral line. (I know people will think to just get banelings, but you might as well get tech. - Roach/infestor play with tunneling claws.It's like getting cloak at seven minutes lol. - Getting some spine crawlers. - Using the surprise of the tech units to double-expand perhaps
Sorry if these aren't the best suggestions, it's an unusual build. Still, work on it, SC2 needs more diversity.
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hey guys: thanks a lot for the feedback.
Like i said, it's not something i've hardly refined and I know that any early pressure will be hard to stop. To be frank, i got tired of being cheesed and thought this up randomly. Now, i'm putting it to the test.
I skip my queen for a quick lair and get overlord speed before my first queen. This doesn't mean that what i'm doing is right, it just means i'm still trying out all the variables. I expo later (early 20 food).
Also, any early pressure that comes my way, i rely on static defense and a lot of slow lings. Because i won't have speed, i'm hoping the sheer number of slow lings will stop the pressure.
Again, this has it's problems and i know that, but i'm trying to figure out a way to stop cheese. Btw, you can catch 4 gate with relative ease and even though you might now have speed up, you'll definitely have more units since you'll know that a 4 gate is coming.
So, i suppose you make urself somewhat vulnerable in order to catch a cheese or 4 gate much, much earlier.
let me know what you guys think. I'll be toying around with this in some custom games.
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OP better please. Ways to do this include: 1. Posting replays 2. Posting replays 3. Posting replays 4. Elaborate on your build order
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This sounds like a great idea; however, I may play around with it that my first 100 gas is a lair, and just get an overseer.
I think roaches and 2 crawlers or so would hold off 2 Rax/ 4 gate aggression given the roaches will be fighting on creep.
I hope this thread gets more ideas similar to this going.
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This is not viable at all. You will delay your expo/mine less minerals. You will die to any 2rax pressure that is followed up with an allin, since you simply won't have any banelings. Your zergling speed will be tremendously delayed. You will die to any 4gate. In fact you will die to any heavly early pressure. You will also have your lair way before you need it. You simply don't need speed roaches that early. Not even speaking about mutas you couldn't afford anyways.
This won't work in higher leagues, I guarantee.
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Would forgoing overlord speed and instead depending on spine crawlers built on overlord creep be a good way to expand?
Spend 100 gas on an Overseer to allow for faster queen production.
Depend on Infestor/Spines to survive into the midgame?
This is all theorycraft of course, when I have time I'll test it on 1v1obs.
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interesting idea, but what matchup?
To be honest though; With no inject from no queen you WILL lose to a push, but you could do without the zergling speed with the right preparations.
If you dont FE with this, you will most likely need a queen before you start lair.
Else, off one base, what you scout couldn't matter less when you will never have the economy you should due to your ignoring zerg's macro mechanic.
In zvz it might work off one base but you would need spines, and you would need your queen before ovie speed. I'm 100% sure of that.
In zvp and zvt, i think that you most likely need your queen before hand if its off one base. If its off a fast expand, you could do with getting your queen there and defending with all spines, or roaches or something.
Its a cool idea because you can get really quick scouting and even contaminates.
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How do you plan on stopping a well timed 4gate with slowlings and no speedwhatsoever? I don't know the exact timing, but assuming you get lair + oviespeed asap, isn't it already too late? It doesn't actually help defending a 4gate whatsoever. If I see a zerg on 1 base and fast teching to lair, a 1base timing push often wins or massively cripply him right there. Slowlings vs FFs is also not really ideal if the opponent doesn't decide to all in you.
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Guys, if i'm doing anything wrong with this post, you can take it down. I have to be honest: i made an assumption that i could come here and just discuss a strategy i'm using. If that's against the rules, you can take it down.
Anywho, if it isn't, i just posted a replay. This replay is literally the 3rd time i tried it, so it needs a lot of work. But, you can get a feel for what i'm roughing trying to achieve.
Please feel free to try it yourself and come back here and give details and how we can make something like this work. It needs a lot of work, but perhaps some good can come from it.
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scouting the front. You can see a lot by having a ling on his ramp, also he needs to make a proxy pylon, have a speedling patrol around the map and two on the xel'naga. You seem afraid of early pressure builds, but what if they get an expo you can't go bust them down or beat them in the eco game. Also if you can defend a 4gate or whatever has you with this build, you'd be able to defend it and be so far ahead he would have to GG or play a painful game where you just overrun him at 10min mark
Your basicly getting early tech to delay everything else, if your going for this build you NEED to get banelings and use droblings with success to get ahead else your going to be so behind.
Also mind you, Gas is not a free resource, it comes at the cost of minerals early game.
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I really don't think this is that great a strategy. Against protoss in particular, by the time your speed upgraded overlorder floats over their base, they should be just about ready for a 4gate. I think you would have a hard time holding it off unless you have been preparing for the 4gate anyways. But if you have been doing that, why do this fast ovie speed build at all?
Also, if the opponent does some sort of early expand build, I think you will be significantly behind since you won't be able to pressure him as well with speedless lings.
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