[H] PvZ FE -> double stargate build (GSL spoiler)

Doctorjorts

58 Posts

November 30 2010 17:01 GMT

This post requests info on a build I saw in the GSL 3 Ro64, so SPOILER ALERT.

+ Show Spoiler +

TSLGuineaPig's fast expansion in game 1 of his Ro64 against Junwi was very impressive, and something I haven't seen before. I remember Tastosis saying that it's rather common nowadays on the Korean ladder, so I was just curious if anyone had anyone else doing this.

It was a Fast Expansion with nexus before forge, followed by quickly teching to two-stargate play. The map was lost temple, on close-by-air positions. This seems like the perfect map to try it on, with an easily-defended expo and close air. Maybe it would work well on Scrap Station as well? Clearly, cannon placement is key to keep the roaches from rolling over you, but once the void rays are on the board his roach warren is all but useless.

I just get really excited when I see a protoss strategy I haven't seen before, something that forgoes robo tech. Does anyone know where I can find VODs or replays of this? If you're high-level diamond, then I'd also enjoy a replay of you doing this in a ladder match. Thanks!

`Zapdos

United States935 Posts

November 30 2010 17:10 GMT

You can watch game 1 for free on gomtv.net. =.=

Markwerf

Netherlands3728 Posts

November 30 2010 17:21 GMT

This is indeed a very good build.

2 stargates are a great followup to a cannon FE because the maps where a cannon FE is good (shakuras, jungle, LT & scrap) are maps where normal gate (+ robo) pressure is hard. Also those maps tend to favor muta play.
2 stargates are great for:
- fast and constant scouting on big maps
- keeping you safe from a roach bust
- (preemptively) countering muta's.
stargates are pretty bad for straight up fights because hydra's own stargate units and lings can ignore stargate units but that problem can be avoided by using cannons and a wall-in, hence the reason why 2 stargates is such a GREAT followup to a forge FE.

Also your stargates basically force them into hydra's which are quite bad on big maps and can be countered quite easily by colossi or HT, especially if they are off creep.
As followup you should generally add in colossi, chargelots (with attack upgrades) and/or HT as they deal best with the units voids can't really deal with (lings & hydra's).
Lategame if you keep your voidray ball alive getting the speed upgrade helps tremendously for harassing, an ideal lategame combination for example is voids, HT, zealots focussing on attack upgrades and possibly a shield upgrade.

A replay of this (2200ish level):

Doctorjorts

58 Posts

November 30 2010 17:58 GMT

On December 01 2010 02:10 `Zapdos wrote:
You can watch game 1 for free on gomtv.net. =.=

...which, if you read the post, you'll see I've already watched. I'm looking for more examples of this working on other maps, and by other players.

Skyro

United States1823 Posts

November 30 2010 18:15 GMT

There was a thread on GuineaPig's games where he used this but I can't find it sorry -_-

But if you're not comfortable and know which maps to FE on I would work on mastering that opening first, then you can branch out and start working on different follow-ups to that.

There are a lot of variations you can do with stargate openers so you should experiment. Main things you have to be mindful of are nydus, banelings, roach and muta push timings and structure how you tech around that, i.e. if you suspect they are quick-teching to mutas you want to throw your stargate(s) down no later than 8 mins.

Another thing to remember is to grab all 4 gasses relatively quickly unless you plan to push w/ mass gateway.

And yes you can FE on scrap. It certainly doesn't seem like a great map to FE on but in reality it is since it is harder to do early aggression on that map and most zergs tend to FE into muta play on it, which is perfect for stargate openers. The backdoor is also very easily defendable due to the narrow choke (just make your cannons up against your nexus facing the choke so that the cannons shoot them as they file through).

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[H] PvZ FE -> double stargate build (GSL spoiler)

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