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Right, so I watch this game where the Terran goes Viking, and the zerg goes, "Hmm, I suppose I'll build some anti-air, that's Corruptors right?"
Example of this can be found here:
http://day9tv.blip.tv/file/3959214/
What you forget to take account is this. Corruptors are armored, Vikings have bonus damage against armored, Corruptors have bonus damage against massive, Vikings are not massive.
So we end up with a unit with 125 hp and 14(12 after the corruptors armor) damage and range 9 for 150/75 against a unit with 200 hp and 14 damage and range 6 for 150/100
The much better alternative IMO is to just go Mutalisks, they'll fare better against the Vikings because they're light armor(they only take 10 damage a shot), they're cheaper(100/100) and they can actually attack ground.
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Viking has 2 attacks though, right?
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You're thinking about the game on the most basic level of one unit vs. another unit. Now let's think one level deeper: Unit Interactions.
The corruptors are used to defend the broodlords - having range 6, they accomplish this goal better than the mutalisks, which only have range 3. If you attempt to defend broodlords with mutalisks, they'll get absolutely shredded by any marines or turrets stationed on the ground.
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well corruptors have more hp and have corruption for the (+33%?) more damage. it is true that mutas are prob better then again why not just get hydras?
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A lot of it depends on the game situation. Why is Terran getting the Vikings? If it's to snipe Ovies, you definitely want Hydras. They kill Vikings insanely fast and will be able to wreck Terran's extremely weakened ground army. Mutas work too, because they can contain T and follow the Vikings around, letting you spread Ovies more. If it's to counter your Broodlords, you probably want Corruptors, although it depends on the area you're attacking. If you can fit Hydras in on defense, then get Hydras. If you can dart Mutas in to snipe, then you want Mutas. Corruptors are more multipurpose, and for heavy GtA defenses. Finally, if they're getting Vikings to abuse cliffs, you want Mutas. Mutas can keep up with the harass and harass back.
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I've never seen corrupters made as a reaction to vikings. Infestor hydra is way better.
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If Terran gets a critical mass of Vikings (15+), doesn't matter how much air units you build you will never retake air control without infestors. To defeat air you really need corruptors with an infestor to fungal growth the vikings. You also need to have more corruptors or better upgrades to be able to win.
In a game situation I've learned it is best simple to morph 5 or so broodlords and try and hit them before they realize you have broodlords. If those 5 broodlords die its usually a good bet to switch to ultras and go for the contain.
Really against Terran in this current patch you are better just going for an all in baneling bust or 6 pool and hope for the best. Fighting a Terran heads up in this patch is gonna get you destroyed.
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On August 04 2010 11:03 Zironic wrote:Right, so I watch this game where the Terran goes Viking, and the zerg goes, "Hmm, I suppose I'll build some anti-air, that's Corruptors right?" Example of this can be found here: http://day9tv.blip.tv/file/3959214/What you forget to take account is this. Corruptors are armored, Vikings have bonus damage against armored, Corruptors have bonus damage against massive, Vikings are not massive. So we end up with a unit with 125 hp and 14(12 after the corruptors armor) damage and range 9 for 150/75 against a unit with 200 hp and 14 damage and range 6 for 150/100 The much better alternative IMO is to just go Mutalisks, they'll fare better against the Vikings because they're light armor(they only take 10 damage a shot), they're cheaper(100/100) and they can actually attack ground.
Look, building corrupters for anything but broodlord transition/defense is a joke. Same with mutas, they get dominated by basically anything that can shoot up. Your best bet as said above is hydra infestor, against terran mech i basically always going ling/infestor/ultra but if i see reactor starport or quick starport i always start building hydras, hydras on creep will easily defend against vikings. Its unbelievabe how quick and powerful hydras take down units like vikings. Use fungal parasite to stop them from running. if they go for overlords pull it back to near your hydras.
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On August 04 2010 12:00 Necrosjef wrote:
If Terran gets a critical mass of Vikings (15+), doesn't matter how much air units you build you will never retake air control without infestors. To defeat air you really need corruptors with an infestor to fungal growth the vikings. You also need to have more corruptors or better upgrades to be able to win.
In a game situation I've learned it is best simple to morph 5 or so broodlords and try and hit them before they realize you have broodlords. If those 5 broodlords die its usually a good bet to switch to ultras and go for the contain.
Really against Terran in this current patch you are better just going for an all in baneling bust or 6 pool and hope for the best. Fighting a Terran heads up in this patch is gonna get you destroyed.
Cheese isnt the solution, you mentioned the solution earlier in your post believe it or not. Use infestors. Spread creep, do frequent drops and abuse the mobility. ZvT is my strongest matchup because i never have trouble with mech because i know its massive flaws. So long as you mass expand, get lots of gas, always tech and use your infestors well and dont just sac them you can win 75% of the time unless the terran pulls something amazing out of his ass. early baneling busts are risky and all-in.
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listen to necro ^^ mutas or hydras are good counters to viking but infestors are what make them really potent and prevent the vikings from just running away.
if your defending your broodlords i prefer corrupter support with a ground army sitting slightly behind the broodlords. but in most situations against terran i think its a better idea to keep upgrading your lings and eventually tech to ultralisks.
you have to remember that zerg are extremely reactive and rely on there quick and ez tech changes to get the right units for the right situation. and since theres a million different situations its impossible to say " unit A > unit B"
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Corruptors vs vikings are like ultralisks vs marauders.
With equal resources of units, vikings will destroy corruptors and marauders will destroy ultralisks. However, if you have a very large economic advantage in the late game, mass corruptors and mass ultralisks can easily destroy a smaller army.
Corruptors serve two purposes, they defend broodlords and they morph into new broodlords. If the terran already has a huge fleet of vikings, you'd be an idiot to go corruptor/BL. However, a large number of corruptors can easily kill a smaller viking force.
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On August 04 2010 11:09 FC.Strike wrote:
You're thinking about the game on the most basic level of one unit vs. another unit. Now let's think one level deeper: Unit Interactions.
The corruptors are used to defend the broodlords - having range 6, they accomplish this goal better than the mutalisks, which only have range 3. If you attempt to defend broodlords with mutalisks, they'll get absolutely shredded by any marines or turrets stationed on the ground.
You could probably take it even further than this. When would you use a broodlord? Probably to siege an entrenched ground position you couldn't take by brute force with a ground force of your own (late game, this means ultralisks).
We're probably talking about a tank line here, possibly around a xel'naga watchtower or a choke. Against mech/biomech, it's not inconceivable they'd have marines and thors (and possibly also turrets/ravens, especially if you defended earlier pushes with burrowed roaches). This makes mutalisks an even worse choice due to their short range (they'd be flying right on top of the thors and marines to engage the vikings).
Corruptors aren't the ideal unit to use, but given other circumstances, they're often the least-detrimental unit to use (the best of bad choices).
However, if you're talking about a Terran opening with a viking harass or a thorship harass, then yes -- mutalisks are the better choice.
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On August 06 2010 02:47 Toxigen wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2010 11:09 FC.Strike wrote:
You're thinking about the game on the most basic level of one unit vs. another unit. Now let's think one level deeper: Unit Interactions.
The corruptors are used to defend the broodlords - having range 6, they accomplish this goal better than the mutalisks, which only have range 3. If you attempt to defend broodlords with mutalisks, they'll get absolutely shredded by any marines or turrets stationed on the ground. You could probably take it even further than this. When would you use a broodlord? Probably to siege an entrenched ground position you couldn't take by brute force with a ground force of your own (late game, this means ultralisks). We're probably talking about a tank line here, possibly around a xel'naga watchtower or a choke. Against mech/biomech, it's not inconceivable they'd have marines and thors (and possibly also turrets/ravens, especially if you defended earlier pushes with burrowed roaches). This makes mutalisks an even worse choice due to their short range (they'd be flying right on top of the thors and marines to engage the vikings). Corruptors aren't the ideal unit to use, but given other circumstances, they're often the least-detrimental unit to use (the best of bad choices). However, if you're talking about a Terran opening with a viking harass or a thorship harass, then yes -- mutalisks are the better choice.
Likewise with hydras. If you are attacking an entrenched position then hydras won't work. To hit vikings that are hitting any ground forces the hydras would have to be 6 units from the ground forces as vikings = 9 range and broodlords = 9.5. If you're using broodlords, the entrenched position probably has tanks which obviously have >6 range causing your hydras to melt instantly if they engage the vikings before the tanks are dead.
Infested Terrans seems like an interesting option. I wonder if you can vomit a ton of ITs on a tank position then assault it with broodlords while the ITs shoot at any vikings. My guess is all the ITs will just melt to the Terran's forces though.
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EPT
