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[A] FlowCraft - A effort to improve the game

Forum Index > SC2 Maps & Custom Games
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NoM.Mur
Profile Joined May 2012
Finland6 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-11-04 21:45:25
November 04 2012 16:26 GMT
#1
[image loading]
Visual design by @DomezSC2

ABOUT THIS THREAD

This thread is not about balance, it is about gameplay. This thread is not about brood war, it is about basic rules of any RTS. This thread is a effort to prove these changes would make a difference. I don't think Starcraft II is a bad game, I just think it could be even better. I did not come up with all the ideas, I stole them from BW, SC2, HOTS and these forums. I'm sorry for being such a theaf, but I just wanted to see would the changes change anything and to what direction.

This is a long post, you don't need to read it all. But if you do, I would be happy. You can first glance it trough and then open the spoiler boxes for more information. This thread is this long because I wanted to fully explain the reasoning behind the changes. Doing this archives two things:

1) You can read more about the changes that rose questions or you don't fully understand.
2) I will get good feedback. Would be hard to give me feedback, if you wouldn't understand my reasoning and the full story behind it.

Please try the MOD before judging it.

CONTENTS

1 INTRODUCTION
2 GOALS OF FLOWCRAFT
3 GENERAL CHANGES
3.1 High ground advantage
3.2 Income
3.3 Economy building
3.4 Macro mechanics
3.5 Area control
3.6 Clumping
3.7 Hard counters
4 SPECIFIC CHANGES
4.1 Protoss
4.2 Terran
4.3 Zerg
5 MAP POOL
6 HOTKEYS
7 FUTURE PLANS
8 OPENNESS
9 MAP MAKING
10 INFO

1 INTRODUCTION

There has been a lot of talk about the basic fundamentals and problems of starcraft II. Especially lately the posts have been regularly popping up. The discussion usually is around the deathball problem, frustrating units, lack of defenders advantage, lack of area control units, lack of midgame, lack of micro units and even restrictions of the mapmakers. The problems are created because the game is lacking some fundamental laws and because of some unit abilities like the force field. The problems that these issues create doesn't effect just the gameplay, but the spectating experience as well.

There have been a lot of talk, but no actions. I have been thinking, that why has nobody created a map where we could test these things. As far as I know the only effort to prove or try something has been the Barrin's breadth of gameplay thread and FRB. There is also other mod called Starbow out there. But these are the only ones.

For the record, I'm not a broodwar fan boy. Secondly I do think starcraft II is a great game and I do enjoy playing it. It's just, that I think it could be so much more. I see how it could be so much more. I also do understand the position where Blizzard is right now and how hard it is for them to make any fundamental changes. However, I was so sure, that these changes would change the game, that I started developing this mod. I implemented everything that I thought would improve the game and would be in line with the goals. I made this mod because I wanted to try that would these things really work. Nothing has been broven yet, but the begining seems promising.

2 GOALS OF FLOWCRAFT

I will not add or take away anything from the game, if it doesn't accomplish any of these goals. None of the changes should be in contradiction with these goals.
  • Get rid of the deathball problems
  • Reward the player for taking expands
  • Increase the need to spread out on the map
  • Increase the amounth of the multi-prong attacks
  • Increase defenders advantage
  • Increase the amounth of early game skirmishes
  • Increase the lenght of midgame
  • Increase the unit micro potential
  • Increase the significance of army positioning and strategical areas on the map
  • Make the game more enjoyable to spectace
  • Remove the restrictions of mapmakers, which should result more interesting and diverse maps
  • Make the races and units unique and different
  • Keep the concepts and units as simple as possible
  • Improve the competitive aspects and increase skill cap (but not by making the execution harder, like for example with the limited unit selection)
  • Give the casual players enjoyable gaming and spectating experience
  • Hold on to the basic Blizzard concept: Easy to learn, hard to master

The main objective is to make the koreans impossible to beat again. But the gameplay and competitiveness are important as well. My opinion is, that high skill ceiling makes spectacing fun and would NOT hurt the casual base. Maybe it is cool to see the big damage, beams and destruction for the first time. But I would argue, that the same person would be less exited and very frustrated when his army gets crushed in 10 sec battle time and time again or when he fails to defend the one base all-in attacks.

3 GENERAL CHANGES

3.1 High ground advantage

High ground adventage has been added. 53 % miss change when attacking to the high ground. Almost every unit has this, even planetary fortresses. Siege tank and Immortal are exeptions, more information about them in the specific changes section.

+ Show Spoiler +
Because of high ground adventage the maps don't feel so flat anymore. In a normal game, the only adventage you have on a high ground is the vision. But right when the enemy gets the vision the high ground can be viewed as equal grounds and the ramp between you and your opponent is just a choke.

Because of high ground adventage the defender's adventage increases and the map terrain is more meaningful. Your strategy may be builded around one key point on the map. When you have the high ground, you dont need as many units to defend as you normally would. These units can be used to harass or defend some other key location.

Some people don't like the misschange, because it is random. That is maybe true in very small battles, but even in just slightly bigger army sizes the randomness becomes meaningless. If a pro player fights from low ground with a small army, they take a considered risk. Just think about poker, there is huge luck involved, but still the better players wins in a long run. But yes, of course minimising risk even further in this case would be good. However the other options for high ground adventage are even worse. They involve even bigger problems than this one.

HG adventage option 2: extra range from high ground to low ground and/or vise versa. The problem is, that extra range would be more beneficial to some units than others. I also think that extra range would not give an adventage powerful enought. Just imagine stalkers on the high ground and stim marines in the low ground. If the terran player stims and runs up the ramp while stutter stepping the protoss player's adventage would be one extra volley of shots. When the marines get close enought, there is no more high ground advantage, even if the marines would still be on the ramp. But still, even this would be better than no high ground adventage at all.

HG adventage option 3: less damage when attacking high ground. Different type of units attacking against different type of units would create different kind of scenarios. This makes the whole high ground adventage, and how big the adventage is, very complex. Some units might have bigger high ground adventage than others. For example (if damage reduction would be 50%), unit A attacking unit B. Unit A does 6 damage and unit B has 40 hit points and 2 armor. The armor would create the following problem:

[image loading]

In other words, damage reduction HG advantage creates even more randomness than miss change. But of course this example would not be true if the damage could be calculated like this: (6 – 2) * 0.5 = 2 damage per shot. Which would result also 20 shots to kill the unit. But at least I would not know how to implement it in the game in that order. There might be other problems too, that I can't see right now. Anyway, there is nothing wrong with the miss change and I know that it works.


3.2 Income

Mineral income is no longer linear and all the bases contain one high yield gas. This means, that every worker will harvest less minerals than the last one (from one base). When compared to the normal game, you would get the same amounth of minerals at the begining, but less with max saturation. In other words, you can not afford as much as you are used to (from one base) and you should split your workers evenly among your bases.

+ Show Spoiler +
To clarify even further: in a normal game every worker harvests the same amounth of minerals per minute no matter what. This is why you can keep 16 workers in your main and then start rallying to your empty natural. But by changing this many benefits will be gained. Now the player is rewarder for expanding. Even in a scenario where you expanded but your opponent went for 1 base cheese and you both end up with only 8 workers remaining, you would still be ahead in eco! I also think that economy management and keeping the workers as spread out as possible is one skill alone and can give an edge to the better player.

If we compare the mineral income rates with 16 workers in one base, we will get 920 m/min in a normal game and 800 m/min in a flowcraft game. Thus we can't support as much as normally. We can state roughly that in normal game you can support 200/200 army with 3 base income. In other words, we have 3 base cap. In flowcraft this cap is 3.5 bases. Having 4 bases while your opponent has only 3 gives you bigger adventage than in normal game, but still the adventage is not as huge as having 3 bases vs 2.

To saturate 3.5 bases with two gas geysors you would need quite many workers.This problem is resolved by removing the other gas gayser and changing the other to high yield gas geyser. At the same time the gas income rate decreases with the same ratio than mineral income rate. So you will get the same ratio of resources. Note that the high yield gas geysers have 5000 gas. This means that there will be same amounth of resources available per base than in a normal game.


3.3 Economy building

Building your economy is slower, it is a process. Drone, SCV and Probe build times have been increased from 17 seconds to 20 seconds. Hatchery larva production time has been increased from 15 seconds to 20 seconds.

+ Show Spoiler +
Lets examine more closely the current scenario, when we still have 17 second build times and 15 second larva birth times. We get less minerals and gas from one base while everything else remains the same. As a good player we want to build our economy (probes and pylons) the whole time, thus we need the same amounth of money to do so than in a normal game. Money spending can be categorised to economy, tehconology and army. Now the quantity of economy remains the same while the portions of technology and army will be smaller. In other words, you will need relatively more money to build your economy. We don't want this, because it's against the goals of Flowcraft. If the players can't afford to build army, then the midgame will be shorter. It will be a eco race. So we need to slow down the economy and let more money to flow into the army and technology portions.

To fix this problem I have increased the build times of Drones, SCVs and Probes. But doint this doesn't really affect the zerg economy since zergs will get new larva every 15 seconds (= new drone every 15 seconds). So I had to also increase the larva production time. However the increase impact is relatively bigger than for the other races.

Zerg can easily take many bases and spread out to the map right from the start. Because of the unlinear income rate the zergs would get bigger income rate with the same exact worker count. Because of this the zerg felt really powerful. But now the larva production nerf made it more even. Now the zerg has to think more carefully when to build drones and when units or when to add additional hatcheries.


3.4 Macro mechanics

Macro mechanics have been removed. This includes: MULE, inject, chrono boost, calldown supply.

+ Show Spoiler +
This increases the midgame. Economies take more time to build up. Also the harass, contain and pressure builds are more effective. There will be more battles and action before the late game.

There will be less 'bumps', which occur when terran drops down mules or when zerg gets extra larva and can finally use the resources. This will make the game feel more slower, but I would argue that it won't be any easier. There is much more time to react and get the most out of your units (with micro / tactics). I believe it will also feel less hectic as well as more simple for a casual player.

Normally it's a lot harder to go into a pressure build where you would get strong midtier army. You basically need to do damage, or else your opponent will walk over you. Usually (in a normal sc2 game) players go for either extremely greed eco play or some extremely agressive all-in build where they try to end the game right there and then. These games are boring to spectace (my opinion). For example ZvP match-up is pretty much economy building from the start to 3 bases (to the ideal state of the economy), then both players go straight for the ideal army composition and the lategame.


3.5 Area control

AOE and area control abilities and attacks have been buffed and added. Force field and fungal growth are the only exceptions. Force fields can now be destroyed and fungal growth only slows the movement speed.

+ Show Spoiler +
One of the goals of flowcraft is to increase the defender's adventage. The player should be able to defend opponent's attack with smaller force in a good position. By buffing the AOE attacks and abilities the defending becomes easier. Player who keeps units in tight ball will get punished. While playing this mod, you should avoid such situations. Keep the army spread out and don't 1 + A your deathball into an enemy position. These attacks/abilities are very powerful, but every race has them. Powerful doesn't mean imbalanced.

The battle for the victory is not so straight forward anymore. You can't force the issue, meaning that building a massive army and just doing a straight forward attack might not be the best option. You might lose your adventage. When ahead, get more ahead. Don't attack, just deny expansions, force the opponent to come to you.


3.6 Clumping

Units wont clump up so badly, they are easier to separate.

+ Show Spoiler +
Normally units clump up very easily. They won't stay separated no matter how furiously you would try. Not anymore, now the units will keep the formation you commanded. You can still put them in one tight deathball, your decicion.

Now that you have the tool to separate the units, the AOE abilities should not be so effective. As a player you would like to keep the units as tightly together as possible, because then they deal more damage. But the powerful AOE attacks and abilities force you to spread them out. If you lost your whole army and didn't spread the units, don' draw the imba card. Please.


3.7 Hard counters

Hard counters have been removed. More specifically, the whole bonus damage system has been removed.

+ Show Spoiler +
The lack of hard counters makes the game less frustrating. There will not be a unit that would completely destroy everything you have. In a normal game zerg can't product hydras since even a comple of Colossies will completely melt them down. That't not fun. Even from the casual prespective. A casual player builds up huge force of some kind and then they just die, it can be hard to understand why. This same happens with roaches in zvp, and even low master level players have hard time accepting the fact that protoss can kill 200/200 army of roaches wihout losing anything. At the same time protoss player is having hard time defending the roach agression at the start, he/she needs to get perfect force fields and a good build order.

The removal of bonus damage system doesn't mean that all the units would be the same. Still some units perform better in some situations. All the units are different, and by combining them you can create something very powerful. For example marine alone is a ok unit. Marine with a couple of medics is a great combo. Marine medic with tank support is amazing combo.

The units can be made unique by just modifying their hp, speed, armor, attack speed, damage, aoe damage, weapon range, abilities or even acceleration. We don't need a bonus damage system and hard counters, it will just make things more complicated. It won't increase the amounth strategy nor the skill cap. I believe that it will only make the game harder to learn but not harder to master.


4 SPECIFIC CHANGES

If some units, buildings or abilities are not mentioned, it means they are in the game unchanged.

4.1 Protoss

NEXUS
'Chrono boost' removed
'Recall' added. Recall units in a small area to the nexus. Cost 200 energy. Note that the recall area is very small (radius 1.5).

GATEWAY/WARPGATE
- All of the gateway unit build times have been buffed (Zealot, Stalker, Sentry, HT, DT). They are now the same as in warpgates.
- Turning the gateways into warpgates costs 50 minerals. When you turn the warpgate back to gateway, you will receive the 50 minerals back.

+ Show Spoiler +
You don't need the warpgates to get more production. Normally warpgate is cheaper solution since it has quicker build times and the research is easily available/cheap. Now you need to invest to this great technology.


CYBERNETICS CORE
'Warpgate' research needs Twilight Council. Cost is 100/100 and research time 210 sec.
'Particle Strain' research added. Cost 100/50. Research time 120 sec. See Stalker unit stats below for more info.

+ Show Spoiler +
Warp gate research is a mid/late game option. Getting the warpgates is an invest. In a normal game you always get them as soon as possible, but now you need to think the options more carefully. The only benefit that can be received from a warp gate is the ability to warpin anywhere. Note that they won't increase the productivity anymore.


ZEALOT
hp 100 → 120
'Charge' has been modified. It will be activated after every attack. Can't be used manually. Charge lasts 2 seconds. Researching charge also makes the zealot immune to all slow effects and increases the movement speed normally.

STALKER
hp 80 → 100, damage 10 → 12.
'Particle Strain' Passive ability will give +2 range after every attack for a short period of time.

+ Show Spoiler +
Gatewayunits are not so weak anymore. I can safely give them a buff, because warpgate is not an early game option anymore. The reason why gateway all-ins are so powerful is the warp-in technology. It totally destroys defenders advantage.

In a normal game the protoss can't fight efficiently with just gateway units. Gateway units suck vs any standard army composition (like marine/marauder or roach). Normally the protoss needs to build high tech units (like templar/colossus) to deal the damage and gateway units are only there to protect the death ball. Now it is very hard for protoss players to spread out with their units. This is one of the reasons why there is deathball.

In this mod the standard gateway units are much stronger even without any high tech support.


SENTRY
'Force field' Can now be destroyed. It has 200 hp and 0 armor.
'Guardian shield' AOE radius 4 → 5.

+ Show Spoiler +
Force field is the core of many problems. Even the maps must be designed around force fields. This game won't be balanced around force field. I think protoss players should have other options than turtling and hiding behind them in early game. Nonetheless force field is a very fun ability to use as well as exicing to spectate.

Even if the force fields can be destroyed, they will remain very powerful tool in engagements and can still block retreating enemy units and really punish them. However, the force field can't be used to lame tactics where the enemy ramp is blocked or they can't suddenly give huge adventage to the player (in a scenario where the protoss could trap a huge enemy army in some location). If you cut the forces of your opponent, the opponent can focus fire force fields and still retread, but will take much damage while doing so.


HIGH TEMPLAR
'Psionic Storm' damage 80 → 120.

IMMORTAL (redesigned)
hp 150, Armor 1, movement speed 1.8. Immortal won't regenerate shields while firing.
'Hardened Shields' removed
Immortal has two weapons. The primary weapon can be turned off and on.
Shield overload (primary weapon): damage 30, range 8, attackspeed 2.5, every attack costs 20 shields, big splash radius. Shoots a slow moving energy missile (like the seeker missile). Missile has a timed life. This attack does not have a miss change, but the damage will be reduced by 50 %.
Phase disruptors (secondary weapon): damage 14, range 8, attackspeed 2, smaller splash radius.

+ Show Spoiler +
The immortal replaces the role of old Colossus. Due to the artistic problems of the Colossus model, it was hard to change the attack and movement stats in order to get what i wanted. Now the immortal is a bit immoble, has somewhat long attack period and does much damage. The damage can feel suprisingly strong, but the enemy needs to micro his units in order to avoid damage. Separete the targeted units or pull back a little with the whole army so that the 'shield overload' missiles never hit and the immortals will quickly run out of shields. You can also use units (like tanks) to target fire the immortals. Immortals without shields are much weaker.

The player controling the Immortal should try to use the shields as efficiently as possible. The Disable primary weapon abilitiy may help.


COLOSSUS (redesigned)
No splash damage. Can no longer stand above other units. Can attack ground and air units. No misschange, because the Colossus is an air unit too. Hold fire and weapons free abilities.
Movement speed 2.25 → 2.65, hp 200 → 150, shields 150 → 100
Thermal Lance (weapon): minium range 2, range 8 (extended thermal lance upgrade gives +3, total range = 11), attackspeed 3,75, damage 80.

+ Show Spoiler +
I am very happy to the outcome. The Colossus should be viewed as a totally different unit. It still feels wery powerfull and with incrieased range and movement speed it is an ideal kiting unit. Because of the buffed movement speed, the Colossus can also utilize the cliff walk better and maybe even do some harassment.

Colossus needs way more micro than any other unit. You can use it to target fire any important enemy unit in a battle. You can also use the long range (think Tempest) to force enemy either retread or engage.


WARP PRISM
acceleration 1.125, deceleration 5, movement speed 2.5 → 2.675

+ Show Spoiler +
I believe Immortal or Colossus drop harass will be very good and exiting. I wanted to lower the acceleration of warp prism in order to punish a player who lets the movement speed decelerate to zero. Now maintaining the movement speed of warp prism is even more crucial.


VOIDRAY
Damage stages: 4, 8, 12
acceleration 2 → 1, movement speed 2.25 → 2.5, turning rate 1000 → 300

+ Show Spoiler +
I am not happy with this unit. I'm not sure what to do. I would like it to have some fun harass role as well as anti-capitalship role (like it has). The problem is, that the unit can become easily too powerfull.


ABDUCTOR (new unit)
Spellcaster air unit with weak air and ground attack. Can transport units (but the units can only be loaded with 'bereaving beam' ability). Cargo space 4. If the Abductor gets destroyed, the cargo won't be lost.
Cost 250/125/3, hp 90, shields 100, armor 0, energy 200.
'Bereaving beam' ability grabs enemy (or your own) units inside the abductor. Cost 25 energy, range 3. While the bereaving beam is being used the Abductor will "float" and maintain some of it's movement speed.
'Cloacking field' ability makes the nearby units invisible for 30 seconds. Cost 125 energy. Abductor will remain visible and can't be cloked by other Abductor while it is casting.
'Detect field' ability detects enemy cloacked and burrowed units for 30 seconds. Cost 125 energy.
+ Show Spoiler +

This unit is a great harass option. It can clear overlords, it can harass mineral line, it can pick up important units in battle and it is a light detector unit. Cloaking field can be used in offens as well ad defense. I got the idea to this unit form HOTS, and I think it archieved what Blizzard wanted. They wanted to create a harass unit that can do some damage but not kill like 20 workers like a hellion would. It requires micro and good control. You also need to plan how you will kill the units that you loaded inside the abductor. Because the cargo won't be lost when the Abductor dies, you will have to excape alive.


PHOENIX
Can no longer shoot while moving. Can make a moving shot.
Damage 2x 5 → 2x 11, attackspeed 1.1 → 2.35.
'Gravitation beam' duration 10 sec → 2.5 sec, cost 50 → 25. While the gravitation beam is being used the phoenix will "float" and maintain some of it's movement speed.

MOTHERSHIP removed from the game.

+ Show Spoiler +
I don't like hero units. The mothership/vortex makes the game too hectic and frustrating for both players. The game can and will be balanced without the vortex.


4.2 Terran

MARAUDER
hp 125, damage 10 → 20, attackspeed 1.5 → 2.45, range 6 → 7, cost 100/25 → 125/25, buildtime 30 → 35.
'Concussive Shells' ability's slow effect 50 % → 35 %. Duration 2,5 sec.

+ Show Spoiler +
I tryed to make the Marauder different, it felt too much like Marine. Now pure marine should be much better than pure marauder, but it can still be good to mix some Marauders in. With their long range and slowing ability they can pick off important units. With their high hp they can deal better against units like Immortal.


REAPER
Movement speed 2.95 → 3.5, sight radius 9 → 6.
'Nitro packs' research does no longer need factory.
'Passive heal' passive ability heals the reaper outside of combat.
'Return Gear' ability must be targeted to your own barracks. Returns the nitro packs and becomes a standard Marine.

MEDIC (new unit)
Enineering bay and techlab is needed to train medics.

GHOST
'EMP' radius 1.5 → 2
'Snipe' damage 25 → 30

SIEGE TANK
Siege tanks can overkill, meaning that they can shoot the same target and deal more damage that is needed. The siege tank's missile will fly in the air for a short time. Units far away can dodge attacks by moving when the siege tank fires.
Siege mode damage 60, tank mode damage 20
Siege tank does not have a miss change, but the attack will be inaccurate when shooting to the high ground.

HELLION
Can do a moving shot.
hp 90 → 80, damage 8 → 17
'Blue flame' research gives +1 damage. Cost 150/150 → 100/100

A Hellion with +1 will two shoot zerglings. Terran can maintain the upgrade lead because of blue flame upgrade.

THOR
Energy 200 → 0
'Strike cannons' ability removed
Anti-air splash damage removed, damage 6 → 9.

+ Show Spoiler +
Goliath is meant to be the primary anti-air of mech. Because the thor doesn't have a splash damage anymore, the mutas become a valid option against mech. If needed, I might add an upgrade that would add splash damage. The upgrade would require a fusion core, and thus only be a late game option.

I'm also not sure what's the role of this unit, since I added the Goliath. Any suggestions and feedback are welcome.


GOLIATH (new unit)
Can attack air and ground units. Builded from the factory. Requires armory (Can be builded without a techlab).

TERMINATOR (new unit)
Can deploy 3 spider mines. Builded from the factory. Requires special forces academy (can be builded without a techlab). Terminator is a mechanical unit and will get the vechile upgrades (looks like firebat). Slow unit, the mines are heavy and slows down the movment even further.
Movement speed 1.85, every mine that the unit is still carrying decreases the movement speed by -0.2.
Cost 100/25/1, weak aoe damage.

+ Show Spoiler +
Because the unit is so slow, you will need to plan the route that it takes in order to deploy the mines. Mines are harder to get in the other side of the map without map control. You might want to deploy the first mines quickly, in order to get more movement speed. Using a Windhover (dropship) might also help.


SPIDER MINE
(new unit)
Is not activated by hovering units (drones, scvs and probes). Damage 70.

VIKING
Attackspeed 2 → 2.2, damage 2x 10 → 2x 11.

MEDIVAC Removed from the game.

WINDHOVER (added to replace the medivac)
Cargo space 10 (medivac had 8), hp 200, armor 2, cost 100/50/2, movement speed 2.9

ORBITAL COMMAND
Energy 200 → 100, cost 150 → 100.
'M.U.L.E.' removed.
'Call down supply' removed.

PLANETARY FORTRESS

Is no longer mechanical, thus can't be repaired. Planetary fortress will have two repair drones rapairing it, when it haven't taken damage.
Cost 150/150 → 200/200, armor 3 → 1

+ Show Spoiler +
Planetary fortress were too cheap. In normal game it is a big investment because you cant use mules. What makes planetary so strong, is the fact that it can't be destroyed without killing all the scv:s first. The planetary fortress is still a viable and powerful, but will need army support to defend itself.


GHOST ACADEMY removed from the game.

SPECIAL FORCES ACADEMY (added to replace the Ghost academy)
Building is needed to train Ghosts and Terminators. Ghost's upgrades can be researched from here.

NUKE SILO (new building)
Special forces academy is needed to build this. You can build one nuke per silo.

4.3 Zerg

QUEEN
Cost 150/0/2 → 100/0/2, energy 200 → 100, starting energy 25 → 50, ground damage 4 → 3.
'Spawn larva' ability removed
'Spawn creep tumor' ability cost 25 → 50 energy

BANELING
damage 19, movement speed 2.5 → 2.65. Centrifugal hooks speed increase 0.3 → 0.4 and it also sets acceleration+deceleration 1000 → 10 (for visual reasons).

ROACH (redesigned)
Sight radius (unburrowed) 9 → 6, sight radius (burrowed) 5 → 8, damage 16 → 20, range 4 → 3. Every attack costs 15 hp. When roach burrows, it must wait 10 seconds before unburrowing.
Cost 75/25/2 → 100/25/2, armor 1 → 0, armor while burrowed 1 → 2.
Roach can burrow without the burrow research. However, the burrowed roach will be visible until 'advanced burrowing' is researched from the roach warren.
'Burrow raid' passive skill that increases the damage, armor and movement speed for a short period of time after every unburrow. The bonus amounth will decrease over three stages. Range upgrades from evolution camper will increase the bonus damage amounth.
'Tunneling claws' upgrade removed
'Venomous Saliva' passive skill will cause bleeding in the attacked biological units. Units will take 1 damage per second for 30 seconds. Can't kill the unit. This passive ability must be researched from Roach Warren and needs Lair.
'Rapid life regeneration' passive skill increases the life regenation rate of the Roach. The regeneration rate will be double while burrowed.

+ Show Spoiler +
Roach is totally different unit. I'm not sure yet is it powerful enought. It have been used very little. The Roach is meant to be a defensive light area control unit that is capable of doing hit & run attacks. It's very different from Hydra, and that was my goal.

Attacking cost hp, but the roach has very quick life regeneration rate. This means that the Roach can't fight very long. It has to pull back before it's too late. Roach is very strong right when it unburrowes. This makes it ideal to hold some attackpath. If enemy knows that the roaches are waiting burrowed, it can be really hard to engage. However because of the unburrow cooldown it is hard to attack towards the enemy. If the enemy sees the burrow it can just engage and there's nothing the Roaches can do until they can unburrow again.

Because this is very different from any other unit from any game it is hard to say how this unit can be used and what is the role of it. It looks like it's not a good unit to mass by itself. I hope it will find a role in some unit combo. I was thinking that with help of some other unit type it could be even stronger area control unit.


HYDRALISK
Movement speed 2.25 → 2.6, creep speed multiplier 1.5 → 1.3 (now the same than with other units)
'Muscular augments' upgrade will increase the movement speed. Can be researched from hydralisk den and requires Hive.
'Morph to Lurker' cost 50/100/1, morph time 33 sec.

+ Show Spoiler +
The movement speed on creep is the same as before, but offcreep it is a little bit faster. With hive upgrade you can increase the movementspeed even further.


LURKER
Morphs from lurker. Range 7, damage 19. Requires Lurker den.

INFESTOR
'Fungal growth' now only decreases movement speed by 50 %. If the units keep moving, they will take 2 % damage of their max hit points. If the unit stands still, no damage will be taken. Fungal growth is also projectile (not instant). Range 9 → 10.

+ Show Spoiler +
With fungal growth you can slow down your enemy push by forcing him/her to stop. It can also be used to feeling enemies or with a combination of other units like Banelings. But fungals alone will not kill anything. No more game changing (frustrating) fungals, sorry!


MUTALISK
Moving shot is slightly better.

CORRUPTOR (new design)
Range 6 → melee, attackspeed 1.9 → 1.6, damage 14 → 17, acceleration 2.626 → 15, movement speed 2.95 → 3.15, hp 200 → 150.
'Spawn creep egg' ability, that will shoot a creep egg to the selected position. Costs 20 hp.
'Corruption' removed.

+ Show Spoiler +
I wanted to make this unit more interesting. I'm not sure did I succeed. Anyways, Corruptor is still powerful against capital ships. Without melee attack it would be too good versus mobile units like Vikings or Phoenixes.


CREEP EGG
hp 100, armor 0, vision range 4. Will spread creep to small radius. Lasts forever. The player can easily destroy them. Can be used to quickly spread creep or to block movement paths.

OVERSEER
Movement speed 1.875 → 0.75. Overlord speed upgrade movement speed bonus 0.875 → 2

+ Show Spoiler +
I wanted to make DT play more effective. I think it was too easy for zergs to get detection. Now they need to plan ahead and send the overlords to places where they know detection is needed. If they want mobile detection they need to make an investment (by making the Lair upgrade). The Overseer is still slightly faster than Overlord.


ROACH WARREN
'Advanced burrowing' research makes burrowed roaches invisible and doubles the duration of burrow raid. Requires Lair tech. Cost 100/50, research time 100 sec.
'Venemouse saliva' Requires Lair tech. Cost 100/100, research time 80 sec.

HYDRALISK DEN
'Mutate into Lurker den' cost 50/50, morph duration 100 sec.
'Muscular augments' upgrade cost 150/150, research time 100 sec. Requires Hive.

5 MAP POOL

The most suitable sc2 maps as well as my own maps are available. Some of the maps are BW copies. They might not be exactly like in BW, since I didn't even play it It was hard to copy them, because the scale of units and camera height seems to be different. Also the pathing were different. The maps I created should all be very differend from each other. I would also appreciate some feedback about the maps. Just keep in mind, that the balance issues are different than in normal sc2 map.

Daybreak

Cloud Kingdom


Entombed Valley


Tal'darim Altar

Dust Storm
http://i.imgur.com/5GN6G.jpg

Lost Fortress

http://i.imgur.com/EZMbc.jpg

Space Logistics
http://i.imgur.com/swXh4.jpg

Luna (BW remake)
http://i.imgur.com/VtTfj.jpg

Colosseum (BW remake)
http://i.imgur.com/ben9q.jpg

6 HOTKEYS

If you are not happy to the hotkeys that I have choosen for the abilities and units, you can change them to whatever you want. That can be done just like you normally would do it, except that you need to be in a FlowCraft game.

7 FUTURE PLANS

I will continue to develop this mod. It is not finished yet. I have the feeling that there is more to be done. I'm planning to publish a big update after the hots release. Like an expansion set. I'm currently looking into the hots units and trying to figure out what would be good and what not. I don't want to add new units just for the sake of adding them. All of the units need to have a role in the game. I might even get rid of some old units, if I see that they are too similar or have other problems. Only one thing is clear though, I want to add an ability like the Bliding Cloud.

I would want to improve the unit micro potential. I want to make the units more fun without adding additional abilities. Any suggestions how to archieve something like that are welcome. For instance I would like the units to be capable of doing a moving shot like in BW. Also a good example of something I want to do is the Tyler's Carrier micro post. I just don't know how.

8 OPENNESS

I love openness. I like things like Linux or open source. Thus this map is open too, open for the community. Maybe at somepoint I stop developing this mod, and at that point someone else can take over. Maybe this mod never gets that popular and will be forgotten. However, my work won't be wasted. Someone can always use this or some things in it as a base to create their own mod.

This MOD and the maps are unlocked, meaning that they can be found and downladed with the editor. You can copy my map and make your own. You can steal all the ideas from this map. I really hope that Blizzard would. You can make your own version of FlowCraft. However, don't republish this mod with the name "FlowCraft". It's my brand and there should be only one version of it.

9 MAP MAKING

My maps aren't the best ones. They are the first maps ever made by me. I also think that the maps designed for normal sc2 are not very suitable for this mod. So it would be great if someone wants to publish their own maps in this mod. All you need to do, is search for this mod and add it to the dependencies. Then remove extra gas geysors and add one high yield gas with 5000 gas in it. Remember that when I update the MOD file, also the map must be updated. I also hope that the map would be published on both servers, EU and NA. If you dont have an account in the other server, you can contact me and I can publish it.

In this mod the map makers have more freedom to do what ever they want to and not worry about balance.

10 INFO

This mod is published in EU and NA servers. The maps can be found from arcade strategy section. Just search "flowcraft".

Join channel "FlowCraft" to find opponents and to show support.

Please give feedback and improvement suggestions to this thread. You can also contact me via email or bnet:

flowcraft@gmx.com

NoMǂMur.784 @ EU
Mur.869 @ NA


Thank you for reading.
[]Phase[]
Profile Joined September 2010
Belgium927 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-11-04 18:13:58
November 04 2012 18:10 GMT
#2
Ill be trying it out on EU. GL with your project

EDIT : yay collosseum!
Lephex2.0
Profile Joined October 2012
Germany43 Posts
November 04 2012 21:38 GMT
#3
how to deal with early tank rush without immortal ?? oO got crushed
lefix
Profile Joined February 2011
Germany1082 Posts
November 04 2012 21:47 GMT
#4
Impressive clean thread. But I would recommend adding some pictures or videos to gain people's attention.
Map of the Month | The Planetary Workshop | SC2Melee.net
Fatam
Profile Joined June 2012
1986 Posts
November 04 2012 21:54 GMT
#5
Cool. Ambitious but hope you can successfully balance it.
Search "FTM" in SC2 | Latest Maps: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-maps/528528-2-ftm-siegfried-station http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-maps/525489-2-ftm-crimson-aftermath http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-maps/524737-2-ftm-grime
Telsh
Profile Blog Joined March 2012
United States148 Posts
November 04 2012 22:09 GMT
#6
[image blocked]

User was warned for this post
Callynn
Profile Joined December 2010
Netherlands917 Posts
November 04 2012 22:46 GMT
#7
Its cool that you are motivated to this project, but you should really have someone check your spelling.

I can see some imbalances just by scrolling it over though, so be sure to have a serious testing team for this (perhaps your friends). GL with it.
Comparing BW with SCII is like comparing a beautiful three-master sailing ship with a modern battlecruiser. Both are beautiful in their own way, both perform the same task, but they are worlds apart in how they are built and how they are steered.
Mr. Black
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
United States470 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-11-04 23:01:43
November 04 2012 22:58 GMT
#8
On November 05 2012 07:09 Telsh wrote:
[image blocked]

User was warned for this post


Wow. Nope.

I like what you are doing, but think that the chances of you creating a fun, balanced RTS game in the first iteration are very low. If this becomes popular, I hope you will continue to try to balance and refine it, rather than immediately start work on an expansion. Unless someone developing this babysits it, I feel like there won't be an audience to release an expansion to.

Just my two bits.

EDIT: Since the spelling was mentioned: "built" is the past-tense of "build," not "builded." Of course, your English beats my Finnish (I'm not even sure of the name of your language--dumb American).
Make more anything.
sepisepi
Profile Joined December 2011
Finland2 Posts
November 04 2012 23:03 GMT
#9
5/5 mode
sweetbabyjesus
Profile Joined September 2010
Denmark168 Posts
November 04 2012 23:26 GMT
#10
Gonna try it out
Crabs
AssyrianKing
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
Australia2076 Posts
November 04 2012 23:58 GMT
#11
Good initiative, good luck!
John 15:13
moskonia
Profile Joined January 2011
Israel1448 Posts
November 05 2012 01:32 GMT
#12
On November 05 2012 07:09 Telsh wrote:
[image blocked]

User was warned for this post

Memes always give a warning, but I agree with this one, the thread suggests too many drastic changes that will never be implanted, I see no point to so many changes since after seeing MLG I am sure almost no people can say this game is not entertaining, and while there are some design and balance issues, they certainly do not require so many changes to solve.

I think the chances of you balancing this mod to even a small degree, leaving most of these changes in are very close to none. If you truly want to make changes to the game I suggest making very small ones to test and then send Blizzard the results, this mod will never achieve anything more then a fun custom game at most (and it will most likely not get that either since most people who play customs prefer non normal-like games).
Fishgle
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
United States2174 Posts
November 05 2012 01:34 GMT
#13
Some criticism.

The Dragoon and Roach abilities that trigger after attacking/unburrowing are rather confusing and overly complicated. I get that you're trying to return roaches to their original design, which is burrowed raiders. Having the roaches use a separate burrow upgrade than the standard one at the Lair is strange as well. The damage over time attack just adds to the roaches strangeness. Making units unique is good, but there should be consistency of design as well.

Other problems: Fungal Growth now punishes units for moving. How will this be displayed visually? In DotA, Bloodseeker's Ult leaves a trail of blood behind the target unit as it moves, which is an obvious sign, but in a game like starcraft, where there's many more units, things like that may not be obvious. Think of when you get hit by Yamato, Storm, or EMP. The visuals are rather obvious, and important, especially to the casual viewer.

Queens: What purpose do they serve now? Creep tumors are hardly worth the investment.

What's the reason behind separating the ghost academy from the nuke silo? It's not like nukes were built much anyway. This will just make them as unusable as they were in BW.

Lastly, why remove the Bonus damage system? It's a basic element that's always been in the game (sc1 included). And it makes the game easier to balance.
aka ChillyGonzalo / GnozL
NoM.Mur
Profile Joined May 2012
Finland6 Posts
November 05 2012 10:04 GMT
#14
Thank you for all the encouraging comments.


On November 05 2012 06:38 Lephex2.0 wrote:
how to deal with early tank rush without immortal ?? oO got crushed

Hard to say anything without seeing the replay. :/ At the early stages of the game the pushes should be possible to hold with just gateway units. Some of my team mates have told me too that siege tank is too strong, but there haven't been too many games yet. I will test this issue more closely and nerf the damage if needed.

On November 05 2012 07:46 Callynn wrote:
Its cool that you are motivated to this project, but you should really have someone check your spelling.

I can see some imbalances just by scrolling it over though, so be sure to have a serious testing team for this (perhaps your friends). GL with it.

Yes, english isn't my native language. I'll try to check the spelling more closely when I have time.

I have done some testing with my team mates and there should not be anything too broken. Of course there is a lot to tweak and it's not totally balanced. There might be some serious flaws though, but in my eyes it's balanced until proven otherwise!

On November 05 2012 07:58 Mr. Black wrote:

I like what you are doing, but think that the chances of you creating a fun, balanced RTS game in the first iteration are very low. If this becomes popular, I hope you will continue to try to balance and refine it, rather than immediately start work on an expansion. Unless someone developing this babysits it, I feel like there won't be an audience to release an expansion to.

I will be playing this mod and trying to balance it out. The expansion set isn't my highest priority and there probably won't even be one without an audiance.

On November 05 2012 10:32 moskonia wrote:

Memes always give a warning, but I agree with this one, the thread suggests too many drastic changes that will never be implanted, I see no point to so many changes since after seeing MLG I am sure almost no people can say this game is not entertaining, and while there are some design and balance issues, they certainly do not require so many changes to solve.

I think the chances of you balancing this mod to even a small degree, leaving most of these changes in are very close to none. If you truly want to make changes to the game I suggest making very small ones to test and then send Blizzard the results, this mod will never achieve anything more then a fun custom game at most (and it will most likely not get that either since most people who play customs prefer non normal-like games).

I know that most probably these changes will never be implemented. I hope this mod will be viewed as a tool to examine changes like this. Almost every change that I made have been suggested by someone in these forums. I agree with all the changes and in my head they make sense. I feel that every change pushes the game to the direction I wanted.

At first I tried to make as small changes as possible, but then decided to implement them all. I believe this mod doesn't even need to be fully balanced in order to see the effect of the changes. I said that I hope Blizzard would implement these changes. However I don't think they will, but maybe if these changes are proven to improve the gameplay experiance, they will implement a few of them. Of course I don't know what Blizzard knows and I don't know what they have tested.

On November 05 2012 10:34 Fishgle wrote:
Some criticism.

The Dragoon and Roach abilities that trigger after attacking/unburrowing are rather confusing and overly complicated. I get that you're trying to return roaches to their original design, which is burrowed raiders. Having the roaches use a separate burrow upgrade than the standard one at the Lair is strange as well. The damage over time attack just adds to the roaches strangeness. Making units unique is good, but there should be consistency of design as well.

Other problems: Fungal Growth now punishes units for moving. How will this be displayed visually? In DotA, Bloodseeker's Ult leaves a trail of blood behind the target unit as it moves, which is an obvious sign, but in a game like starcraft, where there's many more units, things like that may not be obvious. Think of when you get hit by Yamato, Storm, or EMP. The visuals are rather obvious, and important, especially to the casual viewer.

Queens: What purpose do they serve now? Creep tumors are hardly worth the investment.

What's the reason behind separating the ghost academy from the nuke silo? It's not like nukes were built much anyway. This will just make them as unusable as they were in BW.

Lastly, why remove the Bonus damage system? It's a basic element that's always been in the game (sc1 included). And it makes the game easier to balance.

I was little bit afraid that some of my own things would be too complicated. At first the Roaches needed the normal burrow research, but I wanted to make them more effective at hatchery tech. But at least the unit is unique. :D I can make some changes to the Roach if other people find it too weird as well.

It is a good idea to make the fungal growth ability visually better. I will add it to my to-do list

About Queens: Creep spread should be as crucial as in a normal game. It was too easy to mass the creeptumors when they were 25 energy, since there were no need to spend the energy elsewhere. Queens are still good earlygame defense, because they cost no larva. Queens are also the only hatchery tech anti-air along with spores.

At the time I wanted the Terminator to require a Ghost academy, so then I decided to change the Ghost academy to Special Forces Academy. I thought it was cool. I also reduced the cost of the buildings, so it shouln't be that much harder to get the nukes. But maybe this was a change that wasn't even needed after all.

I was not sure was the removal of bonus damage system a good idea. But since this is a test zone for new things I decided to try it. So far I haven't experianced any problems. In this matter I could easily pull back and implement it back. If I understood correcty the bonus damage system in BW wasn't so huge and in SC2 it's more intense. As I said in the thread, I don't think that a game necessarily even needs a bonus damage system.
viittajeesus
Profile Joined November 2011
Finland3 Posts
November 05 2012 20:26 GMT
#15
Cool mod, I hope that players will find it.
Deleted User 97295
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
1137 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-11-06 03:43:23
November 06 2012 03:42 GMT
#16
--- Nuked ---
NoM.Mur
Profile Joined May 2012
Finland6 Posts
November 06 2012 12:10 GMT
#17
Hello!

Anyone who would like to influence the future of Flowcraft or is just other ways interested, contact me! I need players to play some games and try things. Yet there aren't many and it's sometimes hard to find opponents. Send me PM or email if you would like to play. Also add me to bnet friends list and say hi, if you see me online.


On November 06 2012 12:42 Laertes wrote:
I don't like the prospect of this taking players from starbow, which you should all try btw, its almost complete and could use some high level testing in addition to that, but anyway, too many cooks in the kitchen ruins the soup, and if people begin playing this good for you, but it will be less likely for starbow to gain the momentum it needs, honestly though, if you do go down this path, be persistant against all odds, I had to save starbow, and now it begins because kabel got a feel for what he was doing, put his goals on the race track, and went through numerous redesigns to get the game where it needed to be. Believe it or not starbow started out right where you are, Kabel decided he wanted a premium on positional play and expansion as his goals, they became his guiding star. What do you want, intense micro? Fun to watch? Easy to learn? Hard to learn? Decide what you want and have it guide you. gl hf.

And may the best man win.


I have been following the Starbow with interest. A couple of times I have been watching the streams, but I have never tried it. Originally I started to create a mod where I would only make fundamental changes which would be as small as possible. But it kind of got out of hand. I'm not sure is it now stepping to the toes of Starbow. However I believe Flowcraft is not a thread to the Starbotw, since you guys have already established the regular player base. At least it was not my intention.

I see it as a good thing that there are multible alternatives to the normal starcraft. It is always refreshing to try something different. Playing any good RTS will improve the players mechanics and strategy thinking. So I don't even think that it is harmful to play different mods while playing the normal game. I hope Flowcraft will help the discussion about the fundamental things in any RTS and also encourage people to try different mods, like Starbow.

I'm sure that at some point I will try it!
Zealos
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
United Kingdom3562 Posts
November 06 2012 12:33 GMT
#18
I really feel like its either this or starbow, and even then it is incredibly unlikely that either will be used competitively, which is a shame, but probably the truth.
On the internet if you disagree with or dislike something you're angry and taking it too seriously. == Join TLMafia !
decemberscalm
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States1353 Posts
November 06 2012 13:09 GMT
#19
Its a custom. Its really not that big of a deal if there is two or three really well developed altered melee mods. The chances of even one becoming big are incredibly low due to the nature of the game.

Its not like players can't play both ums's at the same time, and if one is really so much better feeling to them that they only play one of the customs then that just means the other one doesn't fit their taste.

Don't get discouraged by people ever saying it won't be used competitively. If you can get even a few people to play games and have a lot of fun with it, that's at least going to be hundreds of games played out over time. How cool of an accomplishment is that?



I have one question though, with macro mechanics gone's do you plan to add any sort of actual difficulty for macro? That's been a pretty key element to SCBW and SC2, players can show off their extreme skill by having flawless macro AND do everything else at the same time.
RFDaemoniac
Profile Joined September 2011
United States544 Posts
November 06 2012 17:54 GMT
#20
"Hard counters have been removed. More specifically, the whole bonus damage system has been removed"

I would disagree with the idea that the bonus damage system creates hard counters.

For example, the siege tank does bonus damage to armored, but is clearly better against smaller units because of splash, which are also usually light. In this way the bonus damage system helps lessen the hardcounter of the ultralisk against the siege tank, or roaches against siege tanks.

While this is not always the case, I think it provides evidence that the whole system shouldn't be scrapped.
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