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On December 31 2008 10:33 mikeymoo wrote:Show nested quote + You have played with me previously, you should know that i only play for the betterment of the town.
lol how does this have any merit?!? VI can die at night, so it's better to get lynched asap.
Because a VI can just hide behind the scenes, and wait till town basically wins and be like "lynch me now" Pretty simple reason behind it. As a regular green i just hide behind the scenes and do analysis. As a blue i have to do what is the best thing for the town using my role, regardless of if i live or die.
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On December 31 2008 10:50 Incognito wrote: I haven't finished reading through the whole thread yet. Some useful information from some of the questions I've seen:
From: Caller Subject: Re: Kill Power Date: 12/31/08 10:47 #/2 rounded up
----------------------------------------- Original Message: Mafia kill power is...= to their members?
From: Caller Subject: Re: Sanity Date: 12/31/08 10:45 just dt
----------------------------------------- Original Message: Oh also when a DT dies, is he simply revealed as a DT or is his sanity revealedd also?
It shouldn't be, the DT should flip the exact role message he was given.
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On December 31 2008 10:54 mikeymoo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 31 2008 10:52 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On December 31 2008 10:50 Incognito wrote: I haven't finished reading through the whole thread yet. Some useful information from some of the questions I've seen:
From: Caller Subject: Re: Kill Power Date: 12/31/08 10:47 #/2 rounded up
----------------------------------------- Original Message: Mafia kill power is...= to their members?
From: Caller Subject: Re: Sanity Date: 12/31/08 10:45 just dt
----------------------------------------- Original Message: Oh also when a DT dies, is he simply revealed as a DT or is his sanity revealedd also? It shouldn't be, the DT should flip the exact role message he was given. Um a DT isn't told his sanity. What do you mean the DT should flip the exact role message he was given?
sorry i phrased it badly. Exactly what you said. He should flip blue as in just Detective, if he dies and the sanity is told it kinda ruins the point of having the sanity bit.
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On December 31 2008 11:22 Mynock wrote: Wait a second. Who said there's only 1 insane DT in the game? Or am i missing something?
To have more than 1 would require having like 4-5 dts + jacks
And to maintain a balanced game, he would need 3 dts, which requires 1 insane dt to maintain balance. Caller should have learned from last game, that balance is essential.
Anymore than 3 dts and the game gets too inbalanced with the amount of role checks. and with more than 1 insane dt you get too much time debating on your sanity that you don't end up being useful.
anything else and this game gets to be horrifically one sided either for town or mafia based on how many dts/how many insane dts there are.
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On December 31 2008 11:42 Bockit wrote:Show nested quote +On December 31 2008 08:57 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On December 31 2008 08:44 Bockit wrote:On December 31 2008 08:27 BloodyC0bbler wrote: As you said, say mafia does kill me tonight, what has that accomplished, lets see I am sane DT A)mikey is red and dies b) I die tonight unless protected
I am insane DT a)mikey is green dies (shit) b)the other dt's know if they are sane or not c) mikey's staunch defenders using rather flawed logic are almost certaintly red d) I die at night unless protected
Nice fleshing out of option two to make it look better than it is. B and C are kind of irrelevant. If you read the beginning of game 3 again I was making the same arguments there as I did here. Yes Ace turned out to be mafia and Folca did turn out to be a dt, that was basically shit luck. And then you're forgetting options 3 and 4: You are mafia: - You could be godfather roleclaiming dt in case you get checked - You could just be mafia (Much more likely if it's this option) You are village idiot - Good to lynch you because you'll just stir shit as the game goes on if you're kept alive. in 3 of those 4 possibilities, it screws us to lynch mikey over you. In 2 of those 4 possibilities, it is worthwhile to kill you. Now something you haven't addressed is your behaviour. Why, why after so many people asked dts NOT to jump out on day 1, did you do this if you were a DT. Not only that you picked a dude that other DTs were unlikely to have picked themselves and thus couldn't speak up against you. Because lets face it, dts are more likely to be investigating Ace/Ver than mikeymoo. Also, all this stuff about finding out the sanity of dts by cross checking dt checks. There's a much easier way that was put forward last game so it's not like it's anything new, just rolecheck the guy who's about to be lynched. That way you don't need any huge webs of crosschecked dt rolechecks who then become public knowledge and killed by mafia. Again, logic says we should lynch you and behaviour says something is up. Anyone who has talked to my outside mafia games knows that I hold mikeymoo, plexa, MTF, and camlitos in alot higher regard than Ver and Ace. Ace from my experience has had a decent strategy in Mafia 2, but was the mouth piece of the clue analyzers. In mafia 3 he was red advocating we lynch folca to save his own skin, last game he got random picked out by RoL. Ver has had decent writeups from what ive seen, and also behaviour analyzes, but as the town manage to completely botch aces mafia, my respect of him isn't that high. Mikey I have played with directly and know his ability(he was in the same circle i was in winning mafia 3), same with camlitos(plexa and mtf arent playing). I figured the chances of caller picking camlitos again for mafia were slim so i checked Mikey. As for my behaviour? In everygame i have honestly roleclaimed, go look at aces game, mafia 3, and last game, i said i was green. I was all cases. Mafia 2 i claimed vig to ace which i was. I play everygame in a way to give the town best chances for survival, not my own personal gain, count that into your analysis. As for what your offering in terms of role checking someone about to be lynched to determine? That means every dt has to do this once. This way, only one of us has to. Now lets flip this around as you want me to. If i was godfather, I would never roleclaim dt first day, its guarenteed that i die either with first or second lynch. Meaning id never get to use my recruitment abilities. As for regular mafia I have stated earlier it would be easier and smarter to just claim i was speaking for a DT then get someone lynched, then if it goes poorly, sell out X, they get lynched then i get lynched. Seriously half the shit that goes on in this game is dictated by players such as ace and ver, who because they have played this more than us, or have had one amazing game that people see them as the best players. Ace rarely changes up his play, and if people go against him he whines and stops playing and then posts to stir shit up. Learn to think people. Things like roleclaiming in previous games is irrelevant there's no point bringing it up as proof that you are legitimate in this game. New roles, new affiliations, everything changes. The godfather thing was more for completeness than anything else. leaving us at this again: Show nested quote +in 3 of those 4 possibilities, it screws us to lynch mikey over you. In 2 of those 4 possibilities, it is worthwhile to kill you. The biggest issue with the behaviour is that you jumped out, on day 1. You could have pm'd 2 people you knew were posting and used them as your mouth, much safer than just coming straight out to everyone and even possible to catch out another mafia if one of them refuses to speak for you. You could have waited one more day and had another check to put out on the table. Mikeymoo really wouldn't have been able to accomplish much, not with the more vocal players making their points.
Behaviour from previous games is important here however, as it defines how people play almost game to game. Ace has played exactly the same everygame, with the difference that if hes mafia and called on it, he starts to spaz a little and slips up. Otherwise he just gets angry.
Bringing up my previous gaming experiences is more a reflection on how i play, which is always to the same goal.
Then you say i should use mouth pieces? Early day 1, that is a safer route but less legitimate to prove yourself as you first have to prove the people your a DT, and in a pm there is no risk to yourself really, as its your word vs theres and pm's can be photoshopped. Using a mouth piece is less logical than someone taking the risk and getting lynched, as there is almost no risk to yourself but no credibility either. By doing it in the open you put yourself on the same chopping block, which no intelligent mafia will do, and the VI's best interest revolve working with the town to ensure a victory then have town lynch them just before that happens. Only being a DT would correlate to this way of playing.
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He does seem optimal for the role though.
Incognito, for an idea of how people are playing, go look at my playstyle in previous games where im green.
Now go look at aces, and mynocks for instance when they are red and townie. Ace is playing very similar to his mafia style atm.
This is obviously not how i play when im green, and everyone considered knows that this is the worst way to play a red, so that would leave me as blue, like i claimed.
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On December 31 2008 12:45 Mynock wrote: BC, I'm curious to hear what you perceive me as now. Of course it will probably be irrelevant once you flip VI and get your picture, but I'd still like to hear it.
Really haven't bother analyzing your previous gameplay. Your bandwagoning with ace, much like normal. But most people view him as a saint so i wont hold that against you.
Ace United States. December 31 2008 12:35. you can't ever compare my playstyles in games to one another. I play different behind and the scenes than when I'm in public. So anything you try to do will be useless, especially since I play as a helpful townie even when I'm mafia.
What are you smoking?
Everytime your red you argue publically against being lynched(anyone would) but when you get called out you use skewed logic to favour yourself and then you drop down to saying how someone who was blue wouldnt play the DT role like that, then when you die you post some random curses or other bs. Behind the scenes you play the innocent townie to get intertwined and screw the town, as any intelligent mafia would.
Its when you get called out your gameplay shifts. When your townie you rally to be the town voice, then treat anyone not blue or who agrees with you like trash so no, its a pretty accurate way to guide someone game by game.
You may have more experience with the game, but that doesn't make everyone in it sheep who have to play the way you think they should.
Stop ralleying behind your mafia buddy and let him die, at least this time you didnt get rolecalled first.
Edit: added in a end quote tag.
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On December 31 2008 13:02 Unforgiven_ve wrote: i got it a 11:11 !! tha numbers!
make a wish
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On December 31 2008 13:02 Ace wrote: ok BC just blew his rouse. He can't be a DT. nice way trying to discredit me there buddy but it wont work.
Lynch BC. And me defending mikey moo doesn't imply there is a connection between us. I'm defending him on the basis that you're a lying sac of shit. Nice trying to analyze my playstyle but you still failed. I never use skewed logic, as your impending death is about to reveal.
You did use skewed logic. In a game where as a DT i could be insane, more information is gained from the accused death than the accuser. With my death nothin is certain at all about the accused but my blue role.
You seem to forget that.
As for analyzing your playstyle, thats a general rundown of it and you know it.
Regardless, it comes down to the choice of the town to believe two players who both have claimed blue, one openly to help the town, the other to help himself.
Lynch me and a blue dies tonight, Lynch mikey and a green/red dies. pretty simple
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On December 31 2008 13:07 Mynock wrote:Show nested quote +On December 31 2008 12:54 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On December 31 2008 12:45 Mynock wrote: BC, I'm curious to hear what you perceive me as now. Of course it will probably be irrelevant once you flip VI and get your picture, but I'd still like to hear it. Really haven't bother analyzing your previous gameplay. Your bandwagoning with ace, much like normal. But most people view him as a saint so i wont hold that against you. Ace United States. December 31 2008 12:35. you can't ever compare my playstyles in games to one another. I play different behind and the scenes than when I'm in public. So anything you try to do will be useless, especially since I play as a helpful townie even when I'm mafia. What are you smoking? Everytime your red you argue publically against being lynched(anyone would) but when you get called out you use skewed logic to favour yourself and then you drop down to saying how someone who was blue wouldnt play the DT role like that, then when you die you post some random curses or other bs. Behind the scenes you play the innocent townie to get intertwined and screw the town, as any intelligent mafia would. Its when you get called out your gameplay shifts. When your townie you rally to be the town voice, then treat anyone not blue or who agrees with you like trash so no, its a pretty accurate way to guide someone game by game. You may have more experience with the game, but that doesn't make everyone in it sheep who have to play the way you think they should. Stop ralleying behind your mafia buddy and let him die, at least this time you didnt get rolecalled first. Edit: added in a end quote tag. You know what's funny tho? Every time I was rallied behind Ace is when both him and me were Town (we were only once Mafia together, last game, and yeah, you could see how that played out). I dunno, but from my point of view it says something about my perception rather than just blunt stabs and bandwagoning, don't you think? Finally, whatever I say will always be based on the most solid logic known to me, rather than anything else. If I am Mafia I never feel the need to withhold sound advice from Town, as that's not in mí best interest either (because it would differ from my "usual" style). That is because I'm confident I can always gain Town's trust, and that is because NO MATTER what role I am, I will play it like a Townie, so it will be in Towns interest to listen to what I say. Ad I can tell you this: 1) the VI has not identified himself yet. 2) You played your role extremely bluntly and based on very vague logic (how can you assume only 1 DT is insane? Yes I read your post, I just think it's completely unsound) if you really are a DT. 3) The best way for a DT to play is gather info until he can find a confirmed blue and then provide it all to the inner link. That, or use a mouthpiece as a minimum. I put you on a VI, and want to tell youo that even if you get what you want, using the same strat as RoL did last time is pretty lame.
Unlike last game the VI has no reason to identify himself? Hes a green whos job is to die, thats about it.
As for best way to play a dt? you have a mole, gf who can convert people into mafia and appear as someone who is blue,a mafia that only has a codename and no clues pointed at them, then most likely 1 insane dt. If the DT's can't verify their sanity quickly, mafia will certaintly win.
I will agree with you that Had i been another blue role, green again or mafia, easiest way is to sit behind the scenes. DT's dont have as much leeway with that this game as they might not be reliable. Town is at a supreme disadvantage until the dt's can be sure of theirselves.
and lastly to again answer the 1 DT insane, To create a balanced mafia game, having more than 3-4 DT's makes it unbalanced (specially with 3 rolechecks) Having even more of them insane further imbalances it as dt's become pretty useless unless they waste abilities on it.
So yes a large part of me playing The dt as i am, is based on caller not making a completely one sided game.
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On December 31 2008 13:28 Bockit wrote: Wait so if I suddenly accused you of being red, and you had a blue role you would just say 'no I'm a <rolename>' giving it to mafia?
All he did was roleclaim the one thing a DT would pick up, He came up red, making him a liar in my books. If you had someone roleclaim you red knowing that the only other role they could have pegged you for is green(due to insane dt), and you were red, you would roleclaim you were blue to protect yourself.
If we had legit dt's he would claim green. By claiming blue all he did was try to dodge first lynch and save his red self.
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On December 31 2008 13:34 naonao wrote: sign me up :D
your a bit late :p
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On December 31 2008 13:34 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On December 31 2008 13:24 chaoser wrote:On December 31 2008 13:16 Bockit wrote:On December 31 2008 13:08 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On December 31 2008 13:02 Ace wrote: ok BC just blew his rouse. He can't be a DT. nice way trying to discredit me there buddy but it wont work.
Lynch BC. And me defending mikey moo doesn't imply there is a connection between us. I'm defending him on the basis that you're a lying sac of shit. Nice trying to analyze my playstyle but you still failed. I never use skewed logic, as your impending death is about to reveal. You did use skewed logic. In a game where as a DT i could be insane, more information is gained from the accused death than the accuser. With my death nothin is certain at all about the accused but my blue role. You seem to forget that. As for analyzing your playstyle, thats a general rundown of it and you know it. Regardless, it comes down to the choice of the town to believe two players who both have claimed blue, one openly to help the town, the other to help himself. Lynch me and a blue dies tonight, Lynch mikey and a green/red dies. pretty simple Except mikey is saying he's blue, which paints you as mafia/village idiot. We have as much reason to believe him as you? but numbers got run and even if they are a little off, i'm willing to take the chance and lynch mm. atleast BC roleclaimed while mm just said he was blue mikeymoo doesn't have to role claim to prove himself. The entire burden of proof rests on BC, not mm. Otherwise every game would start with mafia roleclaiming a DT and watching the town stupidly lynch.
Yet your down with "someone claiming to be voice of DT" and laying burden of proof on the accused. So your fine with someone blindly trusting X to lynch Mafia A but totally against DT A just calling out Mafia A. Wow sounds like we have a winner. Ace you practice policy completely differently than you preach. You would only staunchly protect mikey this hard if you 100% knew his role, and only ways to do that would be to be a mafia with him, or have looked at his pm's.
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On December 31 2008 13:36 chaoser wrote:Show nested quote +On December 31 2008 13:34 Ace wrote:On December 31 2008 13:24 chaoser wrote:On December 31 2008 13:16 Bockit wrote:On December 31 2008 13:08 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On December 31 2008 13:02 Ace wrote: ok BC just blew his rouse. He can't be a DT. nice way trying to discredit me there buddy but it wont work.
Lynch BC. And me defending mikey moo doesn't imply there is a connection between us. I'm defending him on the basis that you're a lying sac of shit. Nice trying to analyze my playstyle but you still failed. I never use skewed logic, as your impending death is about to reveal. You did use skewed logic. In a game where as a DT i could be insane, more information is gained from the accused death than the accuser. With my death nothin is certain at all about the accused but my blue role. You seem to forget that. As for analyzing your playstyle, thats a general rundown of it and you know it. Regardless, it comes down to the choice of the town to believe two players who both have claimed blue, one openly to help the town, the other to help himself. Lynch me and a blue dies tonight, Lynch mikey and a green/red dies. pretty simple Except mikey is saying he's blue, which paints you as mafia/village idiot. We have as much reason to believe him as you? but numbers got run and even if they are a little off, i'm willing to take the chance and lynch mm. atleast BC roleclaimed while mm just said he was blue mikeymoo doesn't have to role claim to prove himself. The entire burden of proof rests on BC, not mm. Otherwise every game would start with mafia roleclaiming a DT and watching the town stupidly lynch. yet this is what you did in game four (even though you were not mafia) and you stated that you didn't need to explain anything so why is it that you can do it and BC can't
Because hes a hypocrite
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On December 31 2008 14:28 0cz3c wrote: That's what I meant. Ace is the doc, no? My clue analysis seems to confirm this.
he was paramedic
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As a note for those who haven't made up their mind, and dont want to sift through all this.
I am a dt who rolechecked mickeymoo he then said he was townie
Verifying I'm a sane dt.
Or that im mafia and hes townie oriented
or we are both mafia.
If you lynch one of us, you have to weigh it down to losing one blue, and killing a red, and which person you want to believe.
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For those who want a detailed move lets do this.
I was given role of DT, and as i said earlier i know prominent players from previous games. The first on my list atm for decent players are mynock, camlito, ver, ace, mickeymoo. Those are the first names in my head.
Most people would check ace or ver, and possibly mynock, but not camlito or mickeymoo. Camlito was mafia last game, chances of another flip of red is rare, i rolechecked mickeymoo then without anyone to trust, nor sure if i was blue, i posted my findings publically.
I advocated my position i believe well, but as soon as he claimed blue, i knew i was sane, but continued to argue the way i did to hopefully help the town realize i was trying to do this for the betterment of it. But now as it comes down to me about to die. Remember that when i flip as dt, he has already confirmed that he is red by claiming blue, as such lynch or vigi him for it.
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On December 31 2008 16:08 Amber[LighT] wrote: I'm just going to post this:
Who the fuck role-checks Mikeymoo? He has NEVER been a major player (or a part) in any mafia game here.
Just letting you guys know, if you're new to TL mafia...
If a DT would like to role-check me so we can get something moving that would be great. It would be a good idea to start organizing asap before we all die.
Double check mafia 3 before you say that again. Good try though
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On December 31 2008 16:14 Amber[LighT] wrote:Show nested quote +On December 31 2008 16:09 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On December 31 2008 16:08 Amber[LighT] wrote: I'm just going to post this:
Who the fuck role-checks Mikeymoo? He has NEVER been a major player (or a part) in any mafia game here.
Just letting you guys know, if you're new to TL mafia...
If a DT would like to role-check me so we can get something moving that would be great. It would be a good idea to start organizing asap before we all die. Double check mafia 3 before you say that again. Good try though So between: mynock, camlito, ver, ace, mickeymoo You chose someone who was key in just 1 mafia game? The other four are usual suspects in every game and usually have trouble uniting the town because of their 'mafia history' and they were not role-checked? (I know Ace got S. Bombed) I dunno just a bit sketchy coming from me.
Ace had one game of real accomplishment and yet hes viewed as a saint. Ver has played in what, 2 games where he helped lead callers town to defeat, and then died day 1 in my game? Mynock usually is vocal but he was just red with camlitos in version 1 of callers game so i went for option 3.
It was thought out and even justified earlier in the thread.
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On December 31 2008 16:21 Incognito wrote:Show nested quote +On December 31 2008 16:15 MoRe_mInErAls wrote: I'm towny. A detective checked me out and let me know he trusts me. So yeah..
Was that detective 0zc3c?
If he was he verified every player, host, and non player in the game
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