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On January 19 2018 05:10 darthfoley wrote: Mocsta can still be scum though.
On January 19 2018 05:12 darthfoley wrote:I'll be back on later; I have to help out with bus duty lol
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On January 20 2018 04:48 darthfoley wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2018 04:39 rsoultin wrote: But since you're here, where are you on mocsta? I tried reading through your pages long back and forth with Mocsta but it ended up becoming minute detail drivel that I couldn't follow. Everything he's said has seemingly been super nitpicky or in the weeds. I don't see him really interacting with anyone except to focus on very specific little moments that he then goes to great lengths to overanalyze. I call this the Shapelog syndrome. Basically looooots of words with very little content. Like I still don't know where his head is besides the fact that he is obsessed with talking about someone else's conversation with you on Damdred. Wut. So yea he's still on my scum list. Also ##Vote: BTDT Classic this guy is mafia but le's vote this other guy instead.
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On January 18 2018 21:56 Damerion wrote: Good morning,
I have decided with careful conaideration that Damdred is scum over DarthFoley and Mocsta. Or at least that I would much rather lynch him over both and then reevaluate at that point.
But onto my main point, Damdred is an extremely meta based player and has used exactly 0 points of meta to make his reads this game.
He also is gòing about thw game in a way that is not typical of him, he generally town hunts and only goes after his scum reads day two instead of pushing early day one when he town hunts. He also usually goes off the beaten path and looks where others do not.
And look what he is doing here, he bases his scum read of DarthFoley off one post.
Also I have a slight meta read on Damdred on his word usuage, in that he uses certain words when explaining his reads and he does not use it in any of his posts.
I think Damdred is scum and you all should join me in voting him off.
##vote Damdred
On January 20 2018 05:26 Damerion wrote: Just got off shift, apologies.
Listen to me, yes it is possible I am tunneled upon my friend Damdred. However look at his actions around this lynch.
He has no interactions with BTDT, no interactions with Mocsta, No real interactions with DarthFoley.
And yet someone who thrives on interactions and town hunting has no dynamic shifts in his reads. And yet has come up with these reads that do not change and he pushes withbsupreme confidence.
This is not the day one Damdred who flip flops and changes with the wind.
Also look at how he is handling the lynch, he just wants to get the vote knto Darthfoley and secure it away from himself without encouraging discussion.
I understand I am hyper focused but if you look at my past games I am generally right. So please follow me. This guy is so blatant though. Wtf.
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On February 03 2018 20:21 Koshi wrote: Townread him over Rels that is. Considered it more likely mpcsta was town and rels mafia.
Hmm. Rels filter just wasnt as good.
Must say that hf push was brutal. T on T Yes, Rels played a really decent game otherwise but this push was extremely unreasonable. In essence it made it hard not to lynch HF and it also made me question Rels later on. Sad.
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I feel bad for Mocsta. Regardless of alignment :/
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On February 03 2018 21:48 Mocsta wrote:JAT,Firstly, thank you for articulating why you voted me. I do appreciate the time, effort and thought behind your reasoning. I also happen to agree on much of the analysis – so much so, that I had to question my role PM! Some of these points include: - Soft bus potential
- Repeatedly pointing out “interesting interactions
- HF lynch behaviour
Unfortunately the conclusions drawn are false. For example: - Yes, you could argue there was potential for a soft bus – and we will never know as DF was night killed. I think its obvious to anyone that commented on my 4000-word DF case that he was my #1 target for Day2. I think its also clear that I followed my next lead – HF throughout this cycle. Yes, I voted Prplhz, but, with his direct avoidance of DF – no one can be critiqued for this, remember, all other voters on that wagon to date have been town.
- I noted your comment above on “interesting interactions” above for different reasons to yourself. It is perhaps scummy because I do not always draw a conclusion to the query raised. However, your assertion is that they were raised as a subtle means of drawing attention to the soft bus. Other than a response during this LYLO, I challenge you to find a passage of play where I do this. The fact is, that I don’t. The other fact is that, any player that has read my filter brings this up of their own accord.
- Further, your comments regarding lack of follow up with DarthFoley on Day1 is not appropriate. Perhaps my case on Damdred was more OMGUS than I realised at the time; however, to say that I should have diluted the validity of my case and vote by chasing multiple scumspects is ridiculous.
- The rationale behind a picture case was that this best conveyed my gut feeling when reading his filter – something I struggled to articulate in words. As I intended, and in your own words a “brutal” case and unlikely to be mafia v mafia (where the truth leads to easy articulation).
- Lastly, I did challenge the validity of Damerion claim.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/529865-newbie-student-mafia-xxviii?page=42#833 This is literally 2minutes before you destroyed the claim by alluding to being “potential X” – i.e. BLUE. This is something that Koshi also glosses over.
- I won’t comment further on the assertion that a final-3 mafia would rely on an AFK townie to win a game. That is frankly, a preposterous reason to declare someone scum and is in no way, shape or form congruent with how I have played this game over the past 2 weeks. To be honest, it is insulting to even be associated with that train of thought.
Hence, I am of the opinion that your analysis was predetermined to condition me as scum due to Process of Evaluation rather than discerning pure scum motive. This is made clear by how you town read Koshi/Kmatt prior to jumping to my filter.
I have truly run out of time to continue this further; however, Kmatt/Koshi are scum as summarised by the following: Case 1: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/529865-newbie-student-mafia-xxviii?page=77#1533Case 2: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/529865-newbie-student-mafia-xxviii?page=84#1663Koshi effort is purely superficial and hinges upon survival. Yes, a townie wants to survive as well; however, even in LYLO, Koshi is unable to speak of why I am scum. Further, Koshi was completely aware that I would choose mderg over himself 99 times out of 100. Shooting mderg was always the smart play. Especially after I had drawn needless attention to myself. Solving this game really can be distilled down to this question. Don’t ask yourself just about my actions as a mafia. Ask yourself. Would any mafia continue to draw attention on themselves in pivotal moments throughout this game: e.g the BTDT RB, the HF lynch, the Rels lynch. What is there to gain? If BTDT was that critical for mafia, the game wouldn’t be in the final 3. Rels was obviously going to be hammered. The only thing for mafia to gain by performing my actions is to lose the game. If you agree, the only place a vote should be placed is Koshi.##Vote: Koshi+ Show Spoiler [FOR "KOSHI" EYES ONLY] +On February 03 2018 17:47 Koshi wrote: Go get yourself a cookie. Regarding df and day2: Fair enough. But you are right - we will never know.
Regarding the day1 interactions: Of course you do not point directly towards it. That's why I said it is subtle. You just point towards day1 interactions with mafia in general and know it will quickly become obvious that there was quite a lot of interaction between them and you.
Regarding df follow up: Yes, the picture is still the biggest reason I think I might be wrong. It was a harsh thing to do to your mafia partner, but to be honest it somewhat fits with your general dismissive treatment of them.
Damerion claim: There is a "damerion is lying" in that post but I really do not see the connection to the actual content of it. You are basically only discussing btdts rb claim there.
Afk LYLO: Sure, I don't think you would actually expect me to afk straight through LYLO. But it is entirely possible that you thought I wouldn't really give it as much thought as I did due to how I played (or didn't really play) the last dayphase for example.
I already pointed out multiple times that I think the existing cases against Kmatt are bad. If I am wrong you can rightfully shun me for it postgame but I won't change my mind about that.
Koshi isn't unable to speak of why you are scum. He already did so when he joined the game. IF he was mafia this would be the least of his problems. I have a pretty good track record of correctly reading Koshi and he knows that. This is why I have doubts he would bring me to LYLO (which is a rare occurence anyways since usually at the very least one of us dead at this point unless we are both mafia). Of course I could be wrong for like the first time in ages and it would kinda suck if it had to be in a final 3 situation.
You can say you put needless attention on yourself. This is WIFOM. Yes, in general things like the stuff at the end of the night is unlikely to come from mafia for this reason. But the rest of your points I do not see. Trying to be the one doubtful of a mislynch wagon while letting it happen is something most mafia players tend to do. The mderg stuff makes sense since in the end it would have been my decision to lynch him and you could just say "confirmed town wanted him dead" while getting rid of someone you couldn't mislynch in LYLO. A LYLO with Rels and Koshi would have been far preferable to you.
And Koshi also did a really poor job planning this if he is mafia by calling you obvious town earlier. Where is his final mislynch in his earlier reads? While you always kept your Koshi lynch target in the game to ultimately win the game with it.
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On February 03 2018 23:31 Mocsta wrote: Only thing i will comment further is that i never had intent to lynch mderg
It was a joke vote thing and totally stupid and that action has cost the game.
I was never leaving the vote on mderg but alas
See you in 10hrs i guess No. Regardless of your aligment this is not the deciding thing for me to vote you. Unless it is the reason why you had to shoot mderg instead of me. In that case it did cost you the game.
On February 03 2018 23:34 Mocsta wrote: P.s. Koshi sole reason to state im mafia is holyflare who never voted me
Disappointing jat
Who cares if HF voted you? Who cares if it is the only reason for koshi to think you are mafia when I brought up a lot of reasons for that? Why is Koshi mafia? You more or less only brought up the old cases against Kmatt...
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On February 04 2018 08:42 Mocsta wrote: Stop beibg try hard jat
I now think you are mafia vet
##vote:JAT Is this your way of claiming mafia? ^^
Like I said you played a great game regardless of alignment. No replacements should happen this late.
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On February 04 2018 08:46 Koshi wrote: I would be sad if that was true. hehehehehe Wait for the flip...
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On February 04 2018 08:55 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On February 04 2018 08:47 justanothertownie wrote:On February 04 2018 08:46 Koshi wrote: I would be sad if that was true. hehehehehe Wait for the flip... wow pretending to be mafia in lylo. what a bastard you are.
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On February 04 2018 09:12 kitaman27 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2018 05:12 darthfoley wrote:I'll be back on later; I have to help out with bus duty Show nested quote +darthfoley wrote: lol fuck them, I am a teacher who actually has to help supervise kids getting on their buses each afternoon. To use that as any piece of evidence is just so silly lmao. I can see why they thought that but i'm not an asshole partner who breadcrumbs like that lol this one probably deserves a funniest moment nomination :D Hehe, wasn't really a piece of evidence. Otherwise I would have included it in my case. I just thought it was funny.
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On February 04 2018 09:17 Damdred wrote: GG mocsta and gj jat at carrying koshi Please. Koshi did a good job at being town.
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Well, damdreds reads were surely impressive but nominating the day1 mislynch for best town performance is... special.
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On February 04 2018 09:45 rsoultin wrote:Show nested quote +On February 04 2018 09:36 justanothertownie wrote: Well, damdreds reads were surely impressive but nominating the day1 mislynch for best town performance is... special. -flicks- You were supposed to play with me, not after me :/ I know! That sucked.
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On February 04 2018 10:07 Mocsta wrote: Also
Was there a way to convince JAT to vote koshi? Was mderg a better choice... if so, why? Not really I am afraid.
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On February 04 2018 13:45 darthfoley wrote:Show nested quote +On February 04 2018 12:20 Mocsta wrote: Pinpoint on day1 is meaningless. No flips.
Its more important to convince others of your reads, than to have correct reads
You know this rayn.. ##vote: rayn Convincing others of your reads when they're shit doesn't do anything but lose. Correct reads are always more important unless your primary goal is to just be an alpha. Damdred called us out D1 and never really backed off of it, even in the obs QT iirc. Not convincing people of good reads and get mislynched doesn't do anything but lose either.
There are 3 important things for a good town performance:
- establish innocence - find mafia - convince other townies that you found mafia
If you get mislynched day1 you failed 2/3 and you can have the best reads in the world it doesn't get your team any closer to winning. It's not like damdred left behind any comprehensive and awesome cases. He just posted a list of 3 people. And he postedvothers of this kind too. At some point you will be correct just statistically but it isn't good townplay.
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On February 04 2018 20:47 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On February 04 2018 20:31 rsoultin wrote: -pokes Mocsta- I want to see your townplay though :/ No idea what it is. I havent played since end of 2013. I would have been classed as paranoid and overly convoluted back then. I hope that has evolved somewhat now. There were definitely some great games in this period.
On February 04 2018 20:52 rsoultin wrote:Show nested quote +On February 04 2018 20:47 Mocsta wrote:On February 04 2018 20:31 rsoultin wrote: -pokes Mocsta- I want to see your townplay though :/ No idea what it is. I havent played since end of 2013. I would have been classed as paranoid and overly convoluted back then. I hope that has evolved somewhat now. Maybe we'll get to see it in Globe 16 or whatever... Also, thanks JAT! You broke my years' long mafia losing streak @.@ You are welcome :D It's a rare thing to be alive in LYLO as town.
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On February 05 2018 01:47 raynpelikoneet wrote:jat is there a game where you have lynched an un-cc'd blue claim as vanilla town? I still stand behind what i said in obs qt, i don't think not ccing was smart because while you gained a mislynch what ended up happening was this: Show nested quote +I am still not certain why counter claiming Damerion was so bad it couldn't been done. - With cc: People just lynch Damerion and actually talk about serious reads on D3, jat dies N3 and there they move on. - Without cc (what happened): People argued all D3 if to lynch Damerion or not and D4 was nothing but people calling other people toxic (i dont even know why) and autoing on Holyflare (mostly because of HF's D3 -- which was already a dumb conclusion). Ironically HF was the only player who srsly tried to play mafia on D4 but "i am not answering you because yo, you're scum" So they actually wasted one day phase of discussion. Also it was not that Mocsta's decisions for night kills were bad (aside from the obvious mistake of kiiling mderg over jat last night), it is more that noone else would never ever had killed btdt over jat in the first place (you could kill jat regardless of if jat was a veteran or btdt the doctor). Rels was never going to be mafia because Rels would never leave both Koshi and (confirmed town) jat run around in the thread for one more phase. mderg knew btdt had to be town for the roleblock so if he was mafia most likely Kelsier's shot would have never gone through. Same with Holyflare. Koshi technically could have been mafia but he looked very townie from the beginning (sadly this replacement particularly prolly cost mafia the game). It is not that you made bad decisions, but the fact is noone else as mafia would have made those decisions and aside from all you wrote or did this should have been a reason to always lynch you. Game was basically done when Damerion got lynched and btdt claimed roleblocked. Noone else could anymore be mafia than you (or Kmatt). Yes, I lynched un-cced fakeclaims before. Superbia comes to mind. And tbh I think you are 100 % wrong. Damerions lynch wasn't ever really debated and even if it was people just would have afked otherwise instead of discussing other stuff. And what happened day4 has absolutely nothing to do with me ccing or not at all. If I had cced then we wouldn't have had enough mislynches and mafia would have won this game.
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On February 05 2018 02:05 raynpelikoneet wrote: Like i said in obs, noone would ever make the "vigi is an inv role so kita wouldnt put a cop and vigi in the game" argument had Kelsier shot a townie because you can probably see how stupid that sounds in that context. I don't think it sounds stupid at all tbh. You can debate over the wording of investigative but fact is that mafia can lose the game during night 1 with this setup. It is not balanced. Maybe I wouldn't have pushed this narrative as strong if I hadn't been blue myself but the loguc still holds. There is a reason why a logic based player like rels latched onto this like a madman.
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