sooooooo
and FT responding to my post immediately after I explain to Oatsmaster why it's suspicious, like 5 minutes or so. conspiracy theory, but hey.
someone donate me 5 posts
Forum Index > TL Mafia |
DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
sooooooo and FT responding to my post immediately after I explain to Oatsmaster why it's suspicious, like 5 minutes or so. conspiracy theory, but hey. someone donate me 5 posts | ||
DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
^ Filter from Nuclear Winter where FirmTofu is town. Let me demonstrate marked differences. On July 08 2013 04:54 FirmTofu wrote: Alright, I've got plenty of time now and I've finally got my computer back. I have skimmed through the thread and I'd just like to point out a few things before posting my mega post(tm). Two main people have been targeted as lynches today. Johnnywup and rayn both look like easy scum redirects. In other words, relatively weak town members that would be easy to lynch if push comes to shove. I think you should be watching any and all players on those respective wagons and see how their votes change over the course of the thread. I'm having trouble understanding this Chezinu guy. Apparently, he's a troll? I'm unfamiliar with his persona so could anyone explain? I've still gotta read his claim in detail so I'll post more about that later. In Nuclear Winter FirmTofu is immediately concerned with reads on players and is working on something constructive. His megapost is also completely concerned with reads: On July 08 2013 16:40 FirmTofu wrote: Sorry I took so long. I got burned out from reading the thread and having to update my reads based on incoming information so I took a long break from the thread. I've completed nearly all my player profiles and am ready to give geript my top three scumreads. VayneAuthority: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=418049¤tpage=17#329 Unjustified reason to vote someone. It could be a poke, but it remains unclear. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=418049¤tpage=25#495 Advocates lynching for information. Acknowledges that he could flip town. A town would push their lynch under the assumption that they were scum. Starting to focus on what will happen post-flip indicating that he doesn't want to take the heat on a town flip. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=418049¤tpage=28#554 Highlighting play that strikes him as PR. Why would town do this? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=418049¤tpage=29#568 Accuses Caucasian, who seems like an easy target considering he only has one post and was drunk. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=418049¤tpage=34#669 Adds Dandel to the list of lynch targets. WaveOfShadow: His fluff extends a bit too far into the day. Most of his posts are non-contributing/restating what has already been said. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=418049¤tpage=19#375 Refers to "town players" as an entity that he is not a part of. Very scummy. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=418049¤tpage=20#383 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=418049¤tpage=20#392 Voices his opinion of Johnny based on a misinterpretation of his post, then waits for someone else to vote him before hopping on the wagon. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=418049¤tpage=24#464 Defensive post. Why is he so worried about a wagon on him if the people voting him have a bad case against him? He should be pursuing his reads, not wasting time defending himself from a "weak" wagon. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=418049¤tpage=25#482 Seems to understand scum methodology and could be trying to WIFOM us with his play. I haven't read many of his newer posts, so I will update my read of him as I continue reading. Nirvana.Gabo: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=418049¤tpage=29#566 Idiotic reason to vote Onegu. Looking for reasons to vote, instead of looking for actual scumslips. Could be a scumbuddy defense of a teammate in Chez. We will need to see the flip to know for sure. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=418049¤tpage=29#576 Mistaking newbieness for scum play. Seems to be a deliberate ploy to accuse Onegu of something that isn't there. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=418049¤tpage=31#619 Has a town read on Ace. Convenient. Reiterating what many others have already stated. I would like to pursue either a Vayne or Nirvana lynch, but would be willing to defer to a lynch of WoS. First, I need to read further into the thread to see whether he has redeemed himself or not. For now, Vote ##: VayneAuthority He breaks down his arguments unemotionally and the argument is composed almost entirely of quotes/support. Let's contrast this with his play in this game: On July 16 2013 13:05 FirmTofu wrote: FirmTofu's MegaKickstarting Post: Hey y'all! I know I've been waiting for this game for a long time and I'm sure you all have as well. This game is somewhat non-standard, so there are a few things I'd like to address before we get started. Because this setup is closed, we have to make sure we do not make any unnecessary assumptions that center around speculation about the roles. Speculation is largely a waste of time given the amount of information provided in the OP, so we should stick to the basics. Additionally, we definitely should not be directing blue roles that we aren't even sure exist. Big Plays: If you think of some mastermind play that you think will fool mafia and confuse them, please don't use it. As brilliant as your plan may be, a closed setup has too many variables to account for and your plan could potentially confuse the town more than the mafia. Lying: If you are town, DO NOT lie. If all of town follows this rule, we can separate town and mafia into two distinct categories, liars and non-liars, respectively. We can lynch liars without fear of them flipping town AS LONG AS every town member strictly adheres to this rule. The Traitor: 5 mafia, 1 traitor. Anyone up for some math? 5/24=0.20833333333 (5+1)/24=0.25 The one traitor adds about 4% to the strength of the team. As the game progresses, the denominator gets lower. Assuming we don't get insanely lucky, the percentage of mafia will increase over time. The influence of the traitor will start to compound and he will become a greater threat. We obviously need to keep an eye out for the traitor, but specifically hunting for him in the early days will be a waste of resources, in my opinion. How to catch the traitor! The traitor might get antsy and try to drop a few hints for mafia to pick up (to try and join them). We need to stay vigilant to find these subtle hints and make sure we call them out as soon as we see them. PMs: I'm thinking that we should choose our best town reads as PM targets. I'm somewhat unfamiliar with this mechanic, so if a more experienced player can give his thoughts about it, that would be great. This goes without saying, but remember to choose your pm targets wisely! This means NOT wasting both of your choices on Day 1 based on weak reads. Post Count Limit: We have a moderately strict 20 post limit during day. This means absolutely NO one-liner posts. Try to make longer posts that include multiple quotes. Respond to multiple points simultaneously. If you want to give your reads, do it all in one post. We need people to also save posts to ensure they can respond to accusations should they be accused. Plan ahead. Most of this stuff should be obvious, so I'm not going to beat a dead horse. Alright, that's all I've got for now. Let's have a good, clean game. GL HF! MegaPost - all fluff - no substance. The attitude is different, he's very flowery and fluffy whereas in Nuclear Winter he more or less gets to the point in every post. Firm Tofu's longest posts in this game so far have been defenses of himself. In Nuclear Winter he addresses other issues/questions towards him quickly and shortly and uses his longest posts devoted almost entirely to his cases against scumreads. This is actually really good town play. On July 16 2013 14:15 FirmTofu wrote: I forgot to finish answering DrH. Show nested quote + On July 16 2013 13:54 DoctorHelvetica wrote: If you don't respond to people who mason you I'm probably going to push your lynch. But you bring up an excellent point. FirmTofu's post is seemingly designed to seem as helpful as possible (to the point that it looks pre-written) but I can't imagine town is very fixated on the traitor at all. FirmTofu, explain what you're thinking and was your post pre-written? Are you just a statistics/setup nerd that always looks at the game that way? I don't necessarily find it extra suspicious that you're describing the ideal play of the traitor, this is certainly something the traitor and everybody else probably knows, but it's the most substantial part of your initial post and it's an alarming fixation. I'm a bit of a statistics buff, so in a way, yes. I don't see why drawing attention to the role would make me mafia/traitor. If anything, scum would be trying to draw attention away from these types of roles. Show nested quote + On July 16 2013 14:00 Hapahauli wrote: I think FT is the traitor from that first post. Usually Traitors try to "breadcrumb" their roles somehow in the thread so that they can either communicate with the mafia or be added to the mafia QT (through whatever mechanic). I'm not 100% on the read ofcourse (too early in the game to be certain about that stuff), but it's a remarkably constructed post and one that has a very alarming fixation on a specific role. Otherwise, no scum-reads. You make a valid point, but there is a flaw in this reasoning. As I mentioned in my response to DrH, scum would be trying to avoid drawing attention to their own roles. There is a guilt factor that many scum fall victim to. People who are uncomfortable with lying try to avoid any discussion that could potentially link them to their role. This is my why scum generally try to avoid talking to their teammates in thread and generally avoid talking about their roles. I'm hoping we can move away from this speculative discussion and pursue something more meaningful and concrete. The amount of words he uses to clear up suspicion regarding HIMSELF versus the amount of words in Nuclear Winter is distressing. In Nuclear Winter he is almost completely unconcerned with everything but moving on to a scum lynch. When he is asked a question he gets tot he point as quickly as possible or seemingly ignores it to focus on his lynch. In his case against me here: On July 17 2013 07:52 FirmTofu wrote: I'm going to address a few posts that were made after my departure from the thread yesterday. Show nested quote + On July 16 2013 15:36 VisceraEyes wrote: ##Vote: DocHelvetica Every post he makes (and he's made a full 12 of his allotted 20 posts at the time of writing) makes me vomit inside my mouth a little bit. I don't like anything he's doing. He's not pressuring anyone, he's wasting posts throwing shit at Vayne. I don't even know yet what I think about Vayne, but if the remaining 40% of his posts don't blow me out of the water, I want to kill Doc H today. As much as I dislike DrH, this post has absolutely no substance or reasoning. VE needs to explain his reads or he is as scummy as DrH, if not more scummy. Show nested quote + On July 16 2013 17:16 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: I'm on my phone so I can't copy paste but a couple posts up this page FirmTofu reponds the correct way to DrH and VE responds to wrong way. Also yamato's last post was absolutely horrible. I will probably use both my masons D1 on people who I feel are town. I'm going to bed now. This is ridiculous. Why is yamato's last post horrible? I thought it was well reasoned and particularly useful in forming a read on DrH. Explain yourself. Show nested quote + On July 16 2013 17:23 Oatsmaster wrote: FT's post is totally bullshit. On July 16 2013 15:14 FirmTofu wrote: I have so many problems with this post. It is a completely disproportionate reaction to my prod. Let's address the points first. You say I'm defending Vayne. This is not true. I was pointing out the inconsistencies in your behavior. You accuse Vayne, but you aren't addressing a similar scum-tell in another player. This indicates that you are picking and choosing your targets, instead of actually scumhunting. My point had nothing to do with the topic of PM's, I was addressing your behavior specifically and how you are specifically ignoring the slOosh while pursuing Vayne for reasons that should implicate both of them. This post of yours is digging you into a deeper hole. You made a sarcastic post saying you never even read slOosh's post, but you come back and vehemently say he is a town read for you. If you never actually read slOosh's post, why do have such an aggressive, belligerent response to my question? As someone who had never read slOosh's post, you sure sound like you formed a very strong position on him. I find this all too convenient. I think you lied about not having read his post. Am I correct? FT says he isnt defending Vayne but slams DrH for the exact same thing he himself is doing.??? He seems overly concerned about people lying. Scumtell because no one intentionally lies and its easier to attack town on a supposed lie and not actual content. Also, he is saying that vayne and sloosh are saying similar things. They arent by far. Sloosh is saying dont use it if you dont know how to. Vayne is saying he WONT use it. Nope, totally different. One is intentionally playing badly(vayne), One is possibly bad advice but with limited masoning, Im inclined to agree with sloosh. I don't think you understood the purpose of my post. I wasn't defending Vanye. I wasn't "slamming" DrH. You are exaggerating my actions and making it sound as if I have DrH pegged as a confirmed scum read and am tunneling him at the time of writing that post. Please explain what it is that I am doing that DrH is also doing. I am pointing out inconsistencies in his behavior and he is defending slOosh and attacking Vayne. Our actions are not even remotely similar. Vayne and slOosh are saying very similar things but there is a subtle difference between their statements. Vayne is making a personal decision not to use PMs and slOosh is directing inexperienced players not to use PMs. While you may think Vayne's play is inferior, you cannot say he is intentionally playing badly. He could just as easily be town and think that PMs will screw up town more than help. That is a perfectly valid opinion for a town member to have. You may agree with slOosh and disagree with Vayne, but your agreement/disagreement tells you absolutely nothing about their alignment. Analyzing opinions is meaningless and that is exactly what you are doing. Show nested quote + On July 16 2013 17:28 raynpelikoneet wrote: I think there is something you should all know. I am a pardoner. I tried to think how i could use my power in combination with PM's to it's full benefit and came into conclusion there is no way not to claim will help town. The pardoning can be done vai PM's to the hosts, i don't need to announce it in thread. There is nothing good coming out from me using it, only confusion and distraction, so i will not use my power ever. This makes me think scum have one too. rayn, can you please elaborate on what a pardoner is? I have no idea because I have never played with that role before. Show nested quote + On July 16 2013 17:33 Malongo wrote: I cant believe I am the newbie here. ##Vote: Meapak_Ziphh I dont care if you go to bed, and your post was just too polarized for no reason. Another person who just pops in, votes with little to no justification, and leaves. This is getting tiresome. Show nested quote + On July 16 2013 21:16 Oatsmaster wrote: wtf is this bullshit. Total fucking retardness. Malongo, Koshi and kholly, start playing the game. Kholly, why is DrH scum? Also there is a voting thread. Malongo, why is MZ being polarizing a scumtell? Koshi, why waste 5% of your limit on a useless post? Absolutely USELESS. Ok so scumteam is probably, VE, sloosh, FT and other dudes. Everyone else that has posted I think is town. Anyone that has strong disagreements for any of my reads, please explain why. You have not explained why anyone you listed is scum for you. You mentioned that, "FT's post is total bullshit", but that's about it. You even said that you agreed with slOosh's point about pms. How can you justify that scumteam considering I've had a row with slOosh already? It looks like you are just trying to accuse random people to establish some town cred. Some of your questions are hypocritical. You haven't really started playing the game and you waste plenty of posts being useless as well. Show nested quote + On July 17 2013 00:54 slOosh wrote: On July 16 2013 14:00 Hapahauli wrote: On July 16 2013 13:48 slOosh wrote: Hey guys. If people are unsure about how to mason, they should just avoid using it. Worst thing we can do is have all the discussion going on in PM land and nothing to go off of someone's alignment other than their mason's read on them. On July 16 2013 13:26 Hapahauli wrote: Masoning strong town-reads can be a pretty bad idea under certain circumstnaces. For example, if one of your strong town-reads is a newbie without much scum-hunting clout, there's no point in masoning him. Similarly, you want to avoid a situation where everyone masons one player thereby wasting a whole bunch of town's resources. How do you propose building up scum-hunting circles otherwise? Or was that a semi-joke? Circles don't have to necessarily form around one player. That being said, everyone masoning someone like a town Sandro probably wouldn't be all that bad. I'd have to think about this some more. I don't think they shouldn't form around one player, it's too easily countered and dangerous if they are scum. I was thinking wheels of, say three players, and then linking the wheels slowly. Still don't understand how you can build circles by masoning only scum reads though. On July 16 2013 14:05 FirmTofu wrote: On July 16 2013 13:48 slOosh wrote: Hey guys. If people are unsure about how to mason, they should just avoid using it. Worst thing we can do is have all the discussion going on in PM land and nothing to go off of someone's alignment other than their mason's read on them. While Vayne made a personal choice not to mason, you seem to be directing people to avoid using it. Do you have an inherent motivation to discourage people from masoning? A discussion in "PM land" doesn't prevent discussions from happening in thread. I can't see why you would recommend people not to mason at all. What? I said if people are unsure, they should avoid it because it can cause more problems than be of benefit. How am I making a "concerted effort to discourage people from using PMs"? On July 16 2013 20:24 raynpelikoneet wrote: On July 16 2013 14:05 FirmTofu wrote: On July 16 2013 13:48 slOosh wrote: Hey guys. If people are unsure about how to mason, they should just avoid using it. Worst thing we can do is have all the discussion going on in PM land and nothing to go off of someone's alignment other than their mason's read on them. While Vayne made a personal choice not to mason, you seem to be directing people to avoid using it. Do you have an inherent motivation to discourage people from masoning? A discussion in "PM land" doesn't prevent discussions from happening in thread. I can't see why you would recommend people not to mason at all. I actually second this. Sloosh answer. This is really stupid, everyone should mason. There is no reason not to. Why do you think there is? ##Vote: slOosh Show me where I said no one should mason. slOosh responded well to my question and I no longer wish to pursue him. He seems to speaking from opinion and his statements are not alignment indicative. Show nested quote + On July 17 2013 03:27 gumshoe wrote: Drh pressured tofu, tofu responded, dry backed off tofu when he was satisfied with his answer. Regardless of what tofu did after these are the facts of drh's actions, drh could have easily left his accusation hanging in order not to look flip floppy. Instead he closed the matter for the moment. Doing so hurts his individual position but it is a boon for town because we're able to scratch off a pointless(from dh,s perspective) argument. This reads townie to me, does it mean he is 100 percent mega town? No of course not, but dropping the accusation seems silly for scum who want as many plot threads as possible And want to come off as strong. I actually see DrH's backing off as more of a scum move than a town one. Scum would be trying not to cause too much waves. They push people to appear townie, then back off if the pressure mounts to a considerable degree and they know they have no chance of winning a lynch on their target. I think this is exactly how DrH is playing the game right now. After having a bit of an argument with me, he decided that it would be difficult to get town to lynch me, so he backed off. Remember, in his pms to Oats he said "FirmTofu is confirmed scum". It sounds like he still wants me dead, but he is lying about how he feels about me so that I will stop pressuring him. I smell fear. I smell lies. I want blood. I want DrH to respond to all of my points against him now. He has been avoiding me for too long and my suspicion is starting to mount. Like 70% of this post isn't even about me and this is the best he can do? He's polluting his information and feels the need to be a part of irrelevant discussions, playing defensively, etc. yeah let's lynch him. And i just now realized you may have been asking me if I was lying about not having read sloOsh's post before I attacked Vayne and no I wasn't lying ?? Idk what you're looking for with that. | ||
DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
On July 17 2013 10:58 Oatsmaster wrote: Any good player should know that meta is subject to WIFOM and is nearly always meaningless. Marv owes me a post. Yeah, that's really stupid. I don't have multiple posts to waste talking about why meta arguments are fine when they're used correctly but people should listen to the podcast about "The Game". I've used meta arguments before to kill scum (see: Vivax in TL Mafia LXI) | ||
DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
So instead let's waste our Day 1 discussion on Malongo, the guy who isn't even defending himself? Cops/vigs/trackers/watchers/etc should take care of scummy lurkers. | ||
DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
It's my policy never to analyze what VisceraEyes is doing. No matter what his role is - I will always come to the conclusion that VE is scum. Every single game I have read (and I have blind read several of his games I have not played with him in) I have come to the conclusion that he is 100% scum without any doubt. My opinion on VE is worthless. I have expressed this sentiment in several games (in which I am town in all of them). So sloOsh is in the hotseat. Fine. I'll look at him in a moment, but I'm not willing to drop it just because town sentiment has changed a little bit. I don't think FirmTofu is scum. Continuously choosing to attract attention by engaging with DrH seems really difficult for fresh off newbie games-scum to pull off. No one cares or should care about your conspiracy theory. I checked out the game and I think you have confirmation bias. His first post in Nuclear Winter is ~20 hours into the day, and his mega post is ~32 hours into the day, opposed to less than an hour in this game. I read maybe half of D1 in NWM, and the most he is called out for is inactivity. You're correct. I rescind my meta argument against FirmTofu because I lost sight of the context. Unlike NWM, he is under direct pressure from me in this game which will of course cause him to act differently. However, I think a few things are important. In NWM, he does a good job sticking to the point. He chooses to come swinging out of the gate with a "megapost" which contains absolutely no useful information. I define useful information as anything that will lead to the lynching of scum. Setup analysis is fine Day 1 because it generates discussion -> discussion leads to finding scum. However there is a particular sort of setup analysis/fluff post that comes out Day 1 that is troubling. That is the sort of post that is designed to portray the poster in the towniest light possible without being actually constructive. Rather than reading into the sort of things being said, it's important to look at the tone. In his attacks on me, he has continually misrepresented/twisted my positions/actions and jumped to conclusions rather quickly. FirmTofu 1. FirmTofu stated that sloOsh was making a consolidated effort to prevent people from PMing. This is false. sloOsh states that people who do not know how to mason constructively, should not do it at all. I do not agree with this point, but it is not a "consolidated effort". It is just sloOsh's position on how PMs should be utilized in a game. I would not be surprised if this is an opinion sloOsh had coming into the game, before he received his alignment. Arguing about this particular statement by sloOsh is absurd. 2. FirmTofu states that by claiming the above point, I am thereby giving a strong townread on sloOsh. Ridiculous. I said what sloOsh said didn't mean anything at all. Later in that post I stated "What sloOsh is doing is townier than what you're doing", directed at FirmTofu. This is not the same as claiming I have a strong townread on sloOsh. FirmTofu jumps illogically at the bait - MEANING he is looking for reasons to attack me rather than finding them naturally. sloOsh at that point, at least had offered some advice on how to PM constructively. FirmTofu had only been talking about the traitor role up until that point. 3. FirmTofu isn't making a real effort to start a bandwagon on me NOR is he posting cases in a constructive manner. Read FirmTofu's first case on me. It's very reactive, filled with misunderstandings and irrelevant information and thoughts on other happenings/players. A strong characteristic of his play in NWM is the surgical manner in which he approachs his scumreads. A huge majority of the content in his cases is filled with quotes from the accused player, he dedicates his entire post to this approach. Rather, he is being far more vague, accusing me of lying without specifying clearly and constructively what my lie is. Imagine you are town and I am scum in this game. You caught me in (apparently) a very obvious lie. What do you do? There is only one answer. Bring down the hammer of justice. There is no way a town FirmTofu isn't trying very hard to get me lynched right now, unless he is scum. I still don't even know what he is accusing me of lying about, which means he is doing a very unconvincing job of demonstrating what exactly I'm doing wrong. His cases in NWN were way more logical than this and I refuse to believe he simply became much much worse as a town player over the course of a week or so. I already explained why I originally stopped attacking FirmTofu and WHY I changed my mind. When I said I thought FirmTofu was town - this was related to him defending the pressure that was on him early in the game (related to his post about the traitor and nothing else). This occurred BEFORE he made a post calling me out for not attacking sloOsh and then both misrepresenting sloOsh AND myself. There is another window of time here that is critical but I need to reconsult filters to make sure I'm not remembering things wrong. <- If this is my "so called lie", then he's full of shit. When he told me that it was suspicious for not attacking sloOsh for discouraging PMing when I had criticized VayneAuthority for that, I told him "I didn't read sloOsh's post." FT claimed I was probably lying. However, I have no way to prove/argue this otherwise. There is nothing I can point to that would somehow prove I did or didn't read sloOsh's post at the time. But this is a shit argument. Regardless of the fact that they were saying completely different things about the PM mechanics at the time, this is a classic mafia tactic. Someone attacks the lurker who is on your team? Ask them why they're ignoring lurker Y and call them scum! These are shit arguments. No one has the diligence to pressure every player in the game at the same time. Yeah but why would a newbie scum like FT even argue with you? Why not? Why would a scum FirmTofu be particularly afraid of me? I can think of several games in where I had drawn out arguments with scum, newer scum, every type of scum. That's more WIFOM than a meta argument. Some wine is easier to drink. In Arkham City Mafia: scum were assigned specifically to attack/annoy me because Radfield knew my style of play. I tend to get either tunnel-vision in these situations, or lose confidence and become ineffective for the rest of the game. If you start to think of the games in these terms, town already lost. Do yourself a favor and google "no true scotsman". Based on this information I'm inclined to believe that sloOsh is the mafia bandwagon. | ||
DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
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DoctorHelvetica
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On July 18 2013 06:43 VisceraEyes wrote: 16/15 PS: I'm America It's important to me that you post the logs you have with sloOsh, and I would imagine that's important to everyone else as well. | ||
DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
You bring up two things: 1. Me saying I didn't read sloOsh's post 2. Me backing off of you both of which I have explained at least three times each now. Why won't you tell me what I'm missing? | ||
DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
1. I didn't say that. Oats said I said that. Here is what I said (and I've posted the entire PM logs, another reason I think oats is scum.) Here is what I said: FirmTofu is in a position where he has a direct argument opportunity with me but wants to misdirect attention onto lurkers instead that's bad if he doesn't respond to what I said about sloOsh because somehow kushm4sta is more interesting then I'm absolutely voting for him. 2. And here is what I said about sloOsh: On July 16 2013 14:55 DoctorHelvetica wrote: Oh I found his post, yeah he's not saying no one should mason nor is he saying he is refusing to mason which is a really dumb thing to do. Now you're defending Vayne by using misdirection/misinterpretation! Interesting! slo0sh - don't use mason if you don't know what you're doing. I disagree but there have been terrible consequences for this (coagulation claiming medic to me day 1 of Salem Mafia, me outing every single blue to the godfather in the same game, etc.) slo0sh is in the SAME post talking about how PMs are invaluable for forming scumhunting circles which is a townie way of looking at it. A single sentence in a single post being a "concerted effort to discourage PMing" is really REALLY misrepresenting what sloOsh is saying in a completely obvious way. How could anybody interpret this as a strong townread? You sounded so confident that slOosh was town after glancing at his post. Why? Only scum could be so certain of such a thing. Considering that was the first time you had ever read slOosh's post, it doesn't really make sense for you to have such a strong reaction if you were town. But I'm NOT REACTING to his alignment. Strongly. Or otherwise. I'm explaining why what he is doing isn't a "consolidated effort". I mention the word townie ONCE! slo0sh is in the SAME post talking about how PMs are invaluable for forming scumhunting circles which is a townie way of looking at it. Scum can easily fake townie perspectives. This hardly counts as a hard and intense reaction. In fact it is much softer and less reactive than your accusation of a "consolidated effort" which is ridiculous considering it is - as you emphasize - a single post. Yet you're calling me a liar here again - Why did you pretend as if you didn't see slOosh's post and then backtrack and defend him How do you know I pretended? You're assuming - confirmation bias - you were told to attack me and need a reason. You're the one that's backtracking. 1. Do you believe I lied about having missed sloOsh's post initially? 2. Looking at those two posts next to eachother, who's the one really having a strong reaction here? Now you're semi-dropping the argument, you won't concede that I'm not a liar or that I'm town but you can't go after me because you don't actually have any ammunition. Weird. | ||
DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
VE should shoot oatsmaster or kholly | ||
DoctorHelvetica
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he even backed off his accusations which is what everyone said a scum FT would do anyway so come on | ||
DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
I won't concede that you're not a liar That alone is proof to me that you are scum. Will you admit you completely misinterpreted the way I defended sloOsh? You still consider that a really extreme and strong townread? Jesus. | ||
DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
The points against me are completely valid and you should all definitely look at them. If you feel I should defend myself from them, then force me to. an accused townie would never say this | ||
DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
You sounded so confident that slOosh was town after glancing at his post. Why? Only scum could be so certain of such a thing. Considering that was the first time you had ever read slOosh's post, it doesn't really make sense for you to have such a strong reaction if you were town. So you're admitting now that was a deliberate exaggeration to gauge my reaction of what I really thought of sloOsh? Well here's a list of some of my quotes regarding him: It's hardly a consolidated effort and I hardly ever said I have a strong townread on him either. In fact, I don't have any read on sloOsh cause I haven't been focused on him this game. He hasn't jumped out and grabbed my attention. read his defense he said i have a STRONG townread on sloosh which is not what i said, i was only pointing out how he misrepresented what sloosh was saying. saying that something is non-scummy from a player is not laying out a strong townread. he's panicking. Ridiculous. I said what sloOsh said didn't mean anything at all. Later in that post I stated "What sloOsh is doing is townier than what you're doing", directed at FirmTofu. This is not the same as claiming I have a strong townread on sloOsh. FirmTofu jumps illogically at the bait - MEANING he is looking for reasons to attack me rather than finding them naturally. sloOsh at that point, at least had offered some advice on how to PM constructively. FirmTofu had only been talking about the traitor role up until that point. The third quote by me is part of the post that made you unvote me! Yet you continue the argument about sloOsh! So your claim is: You deliberately claimed (this could be interpreted as lying more than anything I've done, by the way) that I was defending sloOsh harder than you really thought I was to probe my reaction. Why are you still probing my reaction? I've stated several times that I don't have a townread on sloOsh, much less a strong one. The only reason I even paid attention to sloOsh in the first place is because you used his post as a jumping off point to attack me!!!! If you respond with, "OF COURSE SLOOSH IS TOWN, HOW COULD HE NOT BE TOWN? LOOK AT HIS POST, JESUS CHRIST! OF COURSE HE'S TOWN." Then I pursue you further. Why? Because scum are more worried about being called liars than they are about their honest motivations. If you respond with, "Yeah, maybe I shouldn't have been so quick to judge slOosh. You're right, he could definitely be either scum or town, but I'm leaning town atm." Then I would have dropped the case immediately. THIS IS BULLSHIT BECAUSE I NEVER JUDGED SLOOSH I NEVER CALLED HIM TOWN I NEVER SAID I HAD A READ ON HIM MY POST ABOUT SLOOSH WAS NEUTRAL IN FACT SEVERAL TIMES AFTER THE FACT, I SAID MORE OR LESS THE SECOND EXAMPLE (minus the part where I say "you're right" about anything because you're scum and wrong about everything). You're the one lying and making shit up now it's so obvious oh my god | ||
DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
On July 18 2013 08:18 DoctorHelvetica wrote: You said this AFTER saying you were returning me to a null read. The fact is I said sloOsh was null SEVERAL times after that and you ignored it completely. Show nested quote + You sounded so confident that slOosh was town after glancing at his post. Why? Only scum could be so certain of such a thing. Considering that was the first time you had ever read slOosh's post, it doesn't really make sense for you to have such a strong reaction if you were town. So you're admitting now that was a deliberate exaggeration to gauge my reaction of what I really thought of sloOsh? Well here's a list of some of my quotes regarding him: Show nested quote + It's hardly a consolidated effort and I hardly ever said I have a strong townread on him either. In fact, I don't have any read on sloOsh cause I haven't been focused on him this game. He hasn't jumped out and grabbed my attention. Show nested quote + read his defense he said i have a STRONG townread on sloosh which is not what i said, i was only pointing out how he misrepresented what sloosh was saying. saying that something is non-scummy from a player is not laying out a strong townread. he's panicking. Show nested quote + Ridiculous. I said what sloOsh said didn't mean anything at all. Later in that post I stated "What sloOsh is doing is townier than what you're doing", directed at FirmTofu. This is not the same as claiming I have a strong townread on sloOsh. FirmTofu jumps illogically at the bait - MEANING he is looking for reasons to attack me rather than finding them naturally. sloOsh at that point, at least had offered some advice on how to PM constructively. FirmTofu had only been talking about the traitor role up until that point. The third quote by me is part of the post that made you unvote me! Yet you continue the argument about sloOsh! So your claim is: You deliberately claimed (this could be interpreted as lying more than anything I've done, by the way) that I was defending sloOsh harder than you really thought I was to probe my reaction. Why are you still probing my reaction? I've stated several times that I don't have a townread on sloOsh, much less a strong one. The only reason I even paid attention to sloOsh in the first place is because you used his post as a jumping off point to attack me!!!! Show nested quote + If you respond with, "OF COURSE SLOOSH IS TOWN, HOW COULD HE NOT BE TOWN? LOOK AT HIS POST, JESUS CHRIST! OF COURSE HE'S TOWN." Then I pursue you further. Why? Because scum are more worried about being called liars than they are about their honest motivations. If you respond with, "Yeah, maybe I shouldn't have been so quick to judge slOosh. You're right, he could definitely be either scum or town, but I'm leaning town atm." Then I would have dropped the case immediately. THIS IS BULLSHIT BECAUSE I NEVER JUDGED SLOOSH I NEVER CALLED HIM TOWN I NEVER SAID I HAD A READ ON HIM MY POST ABOUT SLOOSH WAS NEUTRAL IN FACT SEVERAL TIMES AFTER THE FACT, I SAID MORE OR LESS THE SECOND EXAMPLE (minus the part where I say "you're right" about anything because you're scum and wrong about everything). You're the one lying and making shit up now it's so obvious oh my god No one has anything to say? Anyone who thinks VE is scum is a moron. FT is literally lying and making things up and then refusing to talk about it YET that is the same thing he was just calling me scum for earlier was ignoring his "points" this is so bad and scummy. I bet my entire mafia career that this guy is either scum or so bad he should be banned forever. I will concede from this game and give my slot to a replacement if FT is town. | ||
DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
On July 18 2013 09:58 VisceraEyes wrote: So what's different about this game where you're so easily able to discern my real alignment, when you said earlier that every game you've ever read of mine you've thought I was scum Doc? God, I'm not keeping track of my own posts. Your logic is easier for me to follow in this game and I don't disagree with anything you've said. This lynch reminds me of GMarshal in "the Game" where people just started saying "Hey X is acting kinda different, lynch him!" and not actually paying attention to anything he is saying | ||
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