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On February 15 2013 02:45 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2013 02:34 austinmcc wrote:Blech, I'll go reread him in parallel. Have no real memory of him there, tbh.
When I read over people that are on the periphery of this game, he sticks out to me. I actually agreed with Gonzaw's statement that randombum's posts were "neutral." This bit of his post on Oats/BH - If you read Oats statement from the point of view where its already decided by town to pick instant majority, (which I think this town has.) then his reasoning makes sense is pretty much the most unique thing I've seen out of his posts. Granted, I liked the thought, but the rest is mush. He has scumreads on oats and gonzaw, his only real reads given, but this is at a time where oats has already been called out and gonzaw has as well. To some extent, he admits as much, noting that others have pointed out his Oats issues. At the end of his filter he's on stutters, who everyone has the same thoughts about because there aren't any other thoughts to be had. It just reads like empty space except for the one line about oats's thoughts and one response to some gonzaw pressure. But even the gonzaw defense is like..."i didn't call you scum, just said you weren't contributing" and things like that. It's his biggest post, but yet doesn't say anything, and reinforces the mush because in some cases he's actively defending himself against gonzaw by saying "No, I said something much more bland than the interpretation you're taking." I will go check parallel. Right, I agree with your sentiments. But he also did the same things in Parallel. He was very much a non-factor for most of the game, but people just kept calling town because it was Palmar (and marv, too?) he was OMGUS'ing and sticking his neck out against. His posts there have...stuff. Some full thoughts, some one-liner questions that show he's reading.
This defense post, against Foolishness's case on him, looks similar to his defense post against Gonzaw this game, but it feels different. The structure is similar - break the accusation up and respond to pieces. But the responses are different - little one-liner question responses to Gonzaw, more...quippy. Whereas his response to foolishness looks meaty and like he's refuting things a little deeper/more seriously.
I would totes <3 marv, iamperfection, dandel ion looking at those posts and seeing if they find them similar, different. Bonus points if they use that to try and read randombum this game.
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On February 15 2013 03:03 Dandel Ion wrote: Also I didn't read PU, and I don't plan on doing it. Too confusing with the two threads.
I'm not sure what merit there is in comparing only 2 posts, and nothing else about his play. Context is important too.
From glancing over them, they look relatively similar, but different in parts. To say more on them, I do not really feel qualified.
@Kita: If your read is "newbie lurker", but you want to lynch him for that,does that mean you have no scumreads at all? I like this post. If I had some pi handy, I would give you a piece.
Will iamperfection and marv post equally like-able posts? WHO KNOWS!?
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On February 15 2013 03:23 Stutters695 wrote: Sorry guys first day of work last night and VDay today. The girlfriend is sick though so I'll be spending most the day doing online coursework to pass the time while she sleeps so I'll try to get some stuff done before the deadline. Can you give us a 20 or 30 minute where you're just here and available?
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To make that a little more forceful/sinister
By induction (maybe)
Town wants to find scum Town wants to look town Town needs to post in order to do those things You making yourself available for a window of time allows you to comment on things, be asked questions, post and contribute
Therefore, IF you are town, you should be amenable to a window of posting/QnA. If nothing else, it can focus what you need to look over and at least give you some minor stuff in thread.
IF you are scum, I would imagine that you'd prefer to prepare a post or two, drop them, and scuttle away (scum scuttle, it is how they move).
+ Show Spoiler +Not relevant to this post: QED PYTHAGORAS ARCHIMEDES SOME OTHER STUFF? e=mc squared?
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On February 15 2013 03:32 Stutters695 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2013 03:24 austinmcc wrote:On February 15 2013 03:23 Stutters695 wrote: Sorry guys first day of work last night and VDay today. The girlfriend is sick though so I'll be spending most the day doing online coursework to pass the time while she sleeps so I'll try to get some stuff done before the deadline. Can you give us a 20 or 30 minute where you're just here and available? Yeah. I have a class at 330 but until I leave for it at three I'm here. Fire away. I'll be back around 5. Phone posting so I don't want to bother editing that but those are in EST. Thanks. Who here have you played the most games with, or is there anyone that you've played with and feel like you have somewhat of a handle on how they act?
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Okay. marv isn't a good case for this, so I'm throwing him out.
Take iamperfection, if you would. Throw out his vote, just read the substance of his posts. Do you get a read off of him? If not, can you just identify like...his towniest post, his scummiest post, and the post of his that you think is the most important for whatever reason, as well as why you choose those? iirc you can't quote off phone, so just something to identify those.
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Is filtering the thing you can't do? This may be a bad phonepost question.
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Oh crap, it might be seeing pictures. Whatever. My only other question right now would be for you to give your honest assessment of who would win if these two ducks fought each other to the death.
+ Show Spoiler +
They're mostly identical EXCEPT:
Duck 1 has a scar on his head, but I won't tell you why. The red spots are acne, because Duck 1 has been shooting up with DuckRoids™. Duck 1 also has a mildly uncomfortable case of athlete's foot, but it's not entirely debilitating.
Duck 2 has a teardrop tattoo, signifying that he's in a duck mexican gang and killed another duck at some point. I won't reveal how.
The ducks fight each other without outside weapons. Who wins? Why?
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Ack, unexpectedly have to run (that's why the picture and story are so crappy). Please answer the questions though if you can, and feel free to actually do more, but I'm interested in those.
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Wait, Gonzaw you think Keirathi has been too passive this game?
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randombum, could you please give me your thoughts on iamperfection, as well as who would win the duckfight from earlier on the page?
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I do not want to lynch stutters today. The lack of duckfight commentary is worrisome, but the thoughts on iamp mirror some feelings that I have.
I'm willing to vote iamperfection.
Interaction with BH/Oats early iamperfection had similar thoughts to mine that BH was doing something similar to Rock Band. Make a case, watch reactions. Rock Band was a fantastic game for town, started off well BECAUSE of BH's case, and so I would expect iamperfection to be down with starting similarly.
But when discussion starts, he gives reasons why he has a town read on oats and then...On February 13 2013 14:22 iamperfection wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2013 14:20 Keirathi wrote:On February 13 2013 14:16 iamperfection wrote: this game reminds me of rockband mini when bh made a shitty case as town and then proceeded to tunnel the fuck out of the guy and just gauged reactions.
I do not think oats actions so far in anyway are largely alignment indicative and i would probally say he is more likely to be town.
Bh case can be summed up as well he thought slightly different about the pyp. big deal all it really tells us is that oats thinks it from more than one point of view.
I think the fact that oats didn't run away and asked questions about why people had scum reads or scum feeling instead of just calling people stupid is constructive and shows a town mindset.
This makes no sense. You simplify it way, way too much. Scum: Gives up and pouts when questioned. Town: Answers questions. That's such a ridiculous dichotomy. Would you apply that heuristic to me? To marv? To BH? To DP? Then why are you applying it to Oats? do you have a point to your question or are you just questioning my logic for shits and giggles. i have a town read on oats deal with it
On February 13 2013 14:30 iamperfection wrote: .... so your post had no point
oats has had 0 fear of the spotlight in my view that is townie
On February 13 2013 14:33 iamperfection wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2013 14:32 Oatsmaster wrote: Avioding the question Keirathi.
The main question is what I wanted answered.
whats wrong with confrontational we aint finding scum if we hold hands and sing songs all day instead of going with discussion, getting posts out of people and responding, he's particularly confrontational. Which is not out of character for him, I've seen him be confrontational and flippant, but he RECOGNIZES that BH is acting similar to Rock Band. He knows that game started out well because of BH's stuff. But instead of taking this opportunity to interact and to get reads on the people who disagree with his reads, he just gets confrontational and shuts up. Note that he gets confrontational and shuts up, not confrontational and argues that others are wrong/scummy.
Filler iamperfections filter, in terms of pages, is sizeable for this point in the game. But there's a LOT of one-liners, and a LOT of meaningless questions, and a lot of poking at people who were speaking oddly, without doing anything.
There's more in his filter than just these, but a lot of comments on people talking like chezinu or speaking in riddles. Also just a couple generic comments where he mentions marv but adds nothing to the thread - marv scum cuz he's not playing. marv scum guys. marv's post meant this or that.
Cases/Lynches/Substantive Stuffz He chimed in about ducks. He was reading thread. He chimed in about crossfire and Grey putting up a filter. He was reading thread. There is not a sense, from his filter, that he has missed large windows of time. In that light, the positions he's taken for/against lynches are very ... terse? He's made no attempt to push anything of important, no attempt to really defend anyone apart from saying oats took spotlight and is therefore town.
It's been a relatively dead thread and a lot of us are guilty of this as well, but...iamperfection keeps touching on suspicions and then never DOING anything.
On February 13 2013 14:33 iamperfection wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2013 14:32 Oatsmaster wrote: Avioding the question Keirathi.
The main question is what I wanted answered.
whats wrong with confrontational we aint finding scum if we hold hands and sing songs all day Never asks kurumi anything or interacts directly with kurumi beyond asking him to stop speaking in riddles (Possible magical kurumi rule violation!?!?!?!?). Does ask BH for his thoughts on Kurumi, but nothing else.
Here's him talking with BH about Gonzaw:On February 14 2013 09:54 iamperfection wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2013 09:06 Blazinghand wrote: Gonzaw not being very direct. But this most recent posting is town gonzaw, as opposed to scum gonzaw. I'm amenable to an oats lynch instead of a gonzaw lynch. Would you care elaborate on the specifics ? Also oats is terrible Lynch he clearly has an interest in who gets lynched Why are you pursuing this so strongly? On February 14 2013 10:05 iamperfection wrote: He is saying he still thinks gonz is scum because he only started acting town after being called out.
On February 14 2013 10:13 iamperfection wrote: So what should he have done bh?
Continue to deep it up and do nothing? His reaction to the pressure should be a null tell at best There's almost nothing there. He doesn't comment on any of the other stuff with Gonzaw, just noting that Gonzaw being townie in response to pressure is null. Fine. What about any other comments made? What about the non-BH's who wanted to lynch Gonzaw? His own full thoughts on Gonzaw? Nope. Not in thread.
Note: he even engages Crossfire here, noting what BH was saying about GonzawOn February 14 2013 10:15 iamperfection wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2013 10:13 Crossfire99 wrote: I'm trying to understand your thought process. You begin with the same premise, gonzaw's most recent posting is townie, but then come to 2 different conclusions (lynch oats and lynch gonzaw) in the span of an hour. I want to know why you changed your mind. He didn't I already explained it. Are you reading the thread? But again, he's just hitting this one facet of the posts for/against Gonzaw, and nothing else.
So where's his vote? Where's his case? Stutters.
On February 14 2013 23:12 iamperfection wrote: the wagon of justice feels better about kurumi's contributions(aggressiveness and speaking some sense)
the wagon of justice now puts its full weight behind a stutters lynch. lets see if we can make him "catch up ".
## vote stutters
On February 15 2013 00:34 iamperfection wrote: so stutters has a meta where he doesn't do anything?
pretty useful meta if he were scum. i say we force him to contribute or he should die a most horrible death. Stutters, whether scum or town, is an easy person to drop a vote on today. I may be slightly biased here, because I don't view a vote as REALLY pressuring someone into acting when they're lurking, but:
lets see if we can make him "catch up ". i say we force him to contribute or he should die a most horrible death hey group, let's do this thing. hey group, let's do this thing. His vote is on stutters, and maybe that's all the motivation he thinks stutters needs. But he makes NO attempt to actively engage stutters in discussion. To me, this is not a townie looking at a lurker. kita and kurumi have both poked at lurkers, explained why/how, and continued on. [caveat: that doesn't mean they're town, it's just how they've acted]. iamperfection's way of voting/calling out stutters is entirely different. It's not actually an attempt to move things forward at all, imo.
##vote: iamperfection
He's got filler. He's chimed in on some minor things about oats/DI/gonzaw, but never pushed discussion forward, even when given the opportunity to on the first night concerning Oats. He didn't try to figure out what kurumi was saying. He's not really living up to his pressure on stutters.
I would like to lynch him.
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randombum is still scummy for me, even after reading his stuff from PU. I think I'm putting that aside for now.
kita is still doing what he's been doing
stutters looks better after his response.
For now, if I were to graph the lynchability of everyone, iamperfection would be at the top of the graph/have a bunch of pie/whatever other system I used. randombum probably behind him? kita and kurumi I have to watch a little harder going forward.
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On February 15 2013 06:22 Keirathi wrote: @austin:
How does that compare to what a town iamp, specifically, would do? Off the top of my head, I can only give the you the best answer I've got - I don't know, actually.
The only specific thing I remember about scum iamp is that he's more than willing to vote early. I have not refreshed my mind by reading any past games, although I remember him as scum in GSL Open III.
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On February 15 2013 06:25 austinmcc wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2013 06:22 Keirathi wrote: @austin:
How does that compare to what a town iamp, specifically, would do? Off the top of my head, I can only give the you the best answer I've got - I don't know, actually. The only specific thing I remember about scum iamp is that he's more than willing to vote early. I have not refreshed my mind by reading any past games, although I remember him as scum in GSL Open III. Followup. From skimming GSL , he's asking more little questions here, but again, not doing anything with them. In GSL III he made small but more than one-line posts. He had some little quips. He's down to use profanity.
He didn't really do much in the way of accusing anyone, from a quick read, other than vader7, who was our lurker D1 there.
However, Keirathi, I'd direct you to GSL Open 2. I played in that one with scum iamperfection, and the complaints I have in this game are the EXACT things that caught my eye there - + Show Spoiler + iamperfection - Look at his filter. It's chock full of one liners, of single questions that he never follows up on. Needs to be compared against past play, but there are SO MANY one liners and dangling questions. There are very few full, original thoughts. His thrawn vote was...I guess people vote sometimes of single things they find scummy, but it felt like something that a townie would do in a rush, then later change his vote or explain his vote further. I overreacted, found that thing you did scummy, but this other guy is entirely scummy OR I overreacted and voted you for x, but then I went through your filter and, you know what, I like my vote because of x, y, z. He just NEVER gives much out in the way of thoughts, never follows up the questions he asks, I really don't love this filter.
If you check his D1 stuff there, town was dawdling around and so there was no need to get involved. He just drops one liners, questions that he doesn't follow up on.
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(Also I'll note that we went through this whole song and dance about reading iamperfection in GSL III, where he was scum and iirc you found him to be his town self. Heck, he was asking you to read him so he could show how townie he was. At the very least, BECAUSE this exact same thing has come up before with half of this playerbase, he KNOWS what you're looking for, and he's fooled you before. I think basing a vote purely off meta here is da poo poo).
Given a sample of his posts, looking at just those games and not others because I don't really feel the need to go super duper far on this, we're looking at a pretty high confidence interval for pegging him as scum, imo.
I AM MANGLING SOME OF THESE THINGS SO BAD. I HOPE IT HURTS, ROLE CREATOR. I HOPE IT HURTS.
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Wait.
marv are you drinking bourbon with me or ... who is that to?
On February 15 2013 06:35 iamperfection wrote: I don't no what your smoking Austin I have been around
I post one liners deal with it Yes. I said you've been around. That's part of why I think you're scummy. You have chimed in on a bunch of little things like ducks and crossfire's filter list - showing that you are around. Yet you don't follow up your questions, don't tease out more information from your reads, and don't fully comment on cases 'n' such. The fact that you HAVE been around means you've had the opportunity to do that, whereas if I said the same things about kita's play today, he could say "well I've been at work and didn't post at all, so I haven't had time to respond to everything." It's a point against you, imo, but I agree you've been around.
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On February 15 2013 06:40 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2013 06:36 austinmcc wrote: (Also I'll note that we went through this whole song and dance about reading iamperfection in GSL III, where he was scum and iirc you found him to be his town self. Heck, he was asking you to read him so he could show how townie he was. At the very least, BECAUSE this exact same thing has come up before with half of this playerbase, he KNOWS what you're looking for, and he's fooled you before. I think basing a vote purely off meta here is da poo poo).
Given a sample of his posts, looking at just those games and not others because I don't really feel the need to go super duper far on this, we're looking at a pretty high confidence interval for pegging him as scum, imo.
I AM MANGLING SOME OF THESE THINGS SO BAD. I HOPE IT HURTS, ROLE CREATOR. I HOPE IT HURTS. Not sure if you're talking to me. I wasn't in GSL 3, but I was happy to hop on the iamp lynch in GSL 2 because he couldn't keep his townie persona up while marv was getting lynched, The only time I've ever been wrong about iamp's alignment once I made a final decision was Aperture 2, and I was basing that off of 3 posts just because he was on the lynching block. You were in GSL 3. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=376602
GSL 2 was the super shitty one, and you weren't in it, at least D1.
If you look at you and iamperfection in GSL 3, he was actively asking you to tell everyone his alignment, because you could read him so well.
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You did have a bunch of posts about his meta and how you could read him though. I'm really not making this up. It doesn't mean you're wrong here, or can't read him, or ANYTHING. To me it just shows that (1) If he has a meta, it's been discussed to some length, including the exact points you're raising here. (2) To the extent that's his meta, he's been able to alter his playstyle temporarily at times to make you think he's town, based on the same criteria you're using here. (3) Ain't no (3).
From 3 + Show Spoiler +On October 22 2012 08:13 Keirathi wrote:The only person I would feel in any way comfortable making any kind of meta read on while still alive in this game is iamperfection, and thats only because he has a very, very distinctly different posting style as town vs scum. At least until he figures out how to trick me On October 23 2012 03:34 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 03:14 austinmcc wrote: Keirathi: I wrote some stuff here but it was super wishy-washy and it's just my thoughts that don't go anywhere. So instead, could you update your read on iamperfection, in long-form?
He's not being talked about, but you said he felt "kind of town" and noted that you felt confident in meta-reading him. Could you just blabber on in a post or two about what read you get from him based on his play this game and based on meta? It's pretty easy. Show nested quote +On October 20 2012 10:01 iamperfection wrote:Im all for using votes to apply pressure and we don't have to worry about someone doing a stupid hammer it wont happen. However all this policy talk bores me time for some action.On October 20 2012 09:14 DarthPunk wrote: Hi drazak? What is your role?
blatant blue hunting darthpunk. Why not ask alignment instead of role? Talk to me darthpunk i wish to know more. ## Vote DarthPunk Note the bolded. Scum iamp doesn't say things like that that could potentially make him look bad. It's basically the same read I had on him in Aperture, where I was wrong. The key difference, I think, is that he only had 4 posts and I made a snap judgement rather than basing it on an overall pattern, partly because GSL2 was still going on at the time and I was convinced he was scum in that game (which I was right about). He is very distinctly more carefree as town, while being careful as scum. Of course, I've told him this multiple times so he could potentially try to play differently, and his recent posting regarding me and v7 seems much more careful than his posting earlier in the day. So, I'm still slightly town on him and wouldn't want to lynch him today. If he is scum trying to play differently, I don't think he'll be able to keep it up for long. On October 23 2012 03:53 Keirathi wrote: It's pretty hard to separate that knowledge out. I've read or played in every single game that iamp has been in, AFAIK.
Maybe I would be a bit suspicious of a random guy for hopping on the easy bandwagons, but not more so than other people. But again, I don't think this is scum iamp. On October 24 2012 05:23 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2012 04:25 iamperfection wrote:On October 24 2012 03:42 Hapahauli wrote: @ iamperfection
You not pushing your case isn't the main issue here (well it IS an issue, but not the main point). The concern I have is that you basically called Kei scum, and simply left your vote on v7 the entire time. What you post after the fact - what you said you should have done in retrospect - has no bearing on what you did. i believe i chimed in from my phone. i couldn't be involved sorry? i guess. had work. And you know what even if was here i still would have left my vote on vaderseven the guy did nothing to make me think he was town. so basically your case boils down to i didnt act like you. Vaderseven came across to me like he was full of crap so i make no apologies for leaving my vote on him. These are the kind of posts that are making me suspicious of iamp again. It's just so... not iamp. Town iamp doesn't give a fuck what you think about him. He explains himself when he feels like it, and doesn't care how bad the explanation is. He certainly doesnt apologize, even sarcastically.
Note that you're even aware of the possibility that, because you've discussed this exact issue with him, he could just be acting differently to confuse you.
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Yaya, I didn't think we were arguing. I guess I just want to say that
I think he's scummy I don't care as much for the meta in this case, because it's been discussed
Your response just seemed very focus on asking me to match up this game with his meta. I'd point towards GSL 2, especially D1, to read for him acting like he is here, imo. Just remembered 3 because we were in it together, and this same thing came up.
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