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On February 02 2013 01:01 JieXian wrote: No.
What if Vivax is scum with yamato and claimed for townie credit
Then Mocsta is town and you let him get mislynched by the town. Scum doesn't claim green check on town players about to be lynched. It works against their win condition. Town fucks up, you let the town fuck up.
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On February 02 2013 01:06 Mocsta wrote: I asked you questions first Djodref.
I will reciprocate once you do.
Which questions are you talking about ?
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On February 02 2013 01:02 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2013 00:57 Djodref wrote: What do you think about Vivax now ? Do you see there is no way for him to be scum ? Your doing a lot of mediating. Time to reverse roles please. You have said your piece on Vivax, but thats a pretty easy read to give due to straight forward logic. Show nested quote +JX said iamp is his only confirmed town. What is your read on iamp; and what do you make of JX statement ?
I think still think iamp is town, but I'm less sure that before. I don't understand why he doesn't want to answer my questions right now. From my point of view, things are easy, we have two scum among iamp, JieXian, Mocsta and yamato. We lynch the scummiest. It's yamato.
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On February 02 2013 01:19 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2013 01:17 JieXian wrote: Besides, I now have stronger reads on Djo and mocha
Djo is most definitely NOT sk its mocsta. Why is Djo not SK? dont just make a rhetoric, add fact and logic.
Hey !
Why I am SK ? Don't just say it for free, add quotes and evidence. Because I'm Vigilante.
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@ iamp
Could we agree on this one ? Two scum players are in the following group of players: iamp, Mocsta, JieXian and yamato. Why is JieXian the scummiest from your point of view among JieXian, Mocsta and yamato ?
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On February 02 2013 01:24 Vivax wrote: Yeah sure. Successfully fakeclaims miller to rush in before jay gets lynched and tells town that jay isn't scum cause he has a life and we don't.
Come on Djo
What else did he say ? He only said that Sharrant was scum ! Did yamato say anything new since Sharrant flipped town ? Absolutely nothing. Yamato has only commented about Sharrant in this game. And look at this particular syntax. This sentences in bold font show that yamato knew the alignment of the players before the flips.
On January 28 2013 06:05 yamato77 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2013 03:48 VisceraEyes wrote: Nono...I'll throw my weight behind thrawn.
##Unvote ##Vote: thrawn Hm. Unless I think Thrawn is town this makes no sense for VE being mafia.I'll take another look at you after the flip, VE, but for now you're off the hook. ##Unvote ##Vote: Thrawn
So Yamato was having VE as scum but suddenly VE is not scum because he votes for thrawn that yamato think is scum, but less than VE, because he was voting for VE and not thrawn. Tell me what you think about this post.
On January 31 2013 07:35 yamato77 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2013 07:23 Promethelax wrote: So why is sharrent scummy? Has nothing changed in the last 24 hours? His focus today has been almost solely on Jay, which is rather scummy if I think jay is town, which I do. Jay is an extremely easy target to go after as mafia. But incidentally, a lot of town has the same opinion of jay despite knowing this fact, so I can almost let that slide. My main problem with him is how wordy and empty his posts are. He's like the antithesis of me. I'm all short and sweet and he's drawn out and boring. His most meaningful contributions this cycle have been his read on jay, but aside from that he's done little to rectify the bad logic he was using to justify his mafia read on VE N1. That same read is also why I think Djo's claim was at least partly a lie, because his continued insistence that VE was a valid target for his shot even after giving out a town read on me for defending VE makes very little sense. Sharrant, for these reasons, is a better lynch than a jay who is matching his town meta and not his scum one.
Just replace "if I think jay is town" by "if you consider that jay is town" and the sentence makes much more sense. This is a scumslip. Yamato knew jay was town, and was painting Sharrant in red color for his wring read.
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On February 02 2013 01:27 iamperfection wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2013 01:26 Djodref wrote: @ iamp
Could we agree on this one ? Two scum players are in the following group of players: iamp, Mocsta, JieXian and yamato. Why is JieXian the scummiest from your point of view among JieXian, Mocsta and yamato ? He is not moc and yamato are but they have claims and checks show me what setup we are in djo
My problem is that I don't know how much V it takes to have two vigs in Toad's setup. It's either two or three, but with the classic setup, with two Vs, you have a single multi-shot vig, and three Vs, you have a multi-shot and a single-shot vig. I don't know if we have a godfather or not. And I don't know if we have a SK or not as well. We also could have a medic. The one thing I'm sure about is that we don't have a godfather AND a SK. Because we lack of blues (too many VT flips already) for this case. The thing I would like to have is VVCTTTT, no GF, no SK, and two Vs for two single-shot vigs. But it means that either you or JX is scum with yamato. I'm really more comfortable to lynch yamato today.
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On February 02 2013 01:50 iamperfection wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2013 01:47 Djodref wrote:On February 02 2013 01:27 iamperfection wrote:On February 02 2013 01:26 Djodref wrote: @ iamp
Could we agree on this one ? Two scum players are in the following group of players: iamp, Mocsta, JieXian and yamato. Why is JieXian the scummiest from your point of view among JieXian, Mocsta and yamato ? He is not moc and yamato are but they have claims and checks show me what setup we are in djo My problem is that I don't know how much V it takes to have two vigs in Toad's setup. It's either two or three, but with the classic setup, with two Vs, you have a single multi-shot vig, and three Vs, you have a multi-shot and a single-shot vig. I don't know if we have a godfather or not. And I don't know if we have a SK or not as well. We also could have a medic. The one thing I'm sure about is that we don't have a godfather AND a SK. Because we lack of blues (too many VT flips already) for this case. The thing I would like to have is VVCTTTT, no GF, no SK, and two Vs for two single-shot vigs. But it means that either you or JX is scum with yamato. I'm really more comfortable to lynch yamato today. What happens when you add yamato's claim?
I don't believe marv's and yamato's claim anymore. I want to judge everybody on their play without considering the check and the claims. I understand when you are coming from though. But I'm sure that either yamato is not miller, either mocsta is GF, either they are the scumteam. I'm 95% sure that the two remaining scum are among yamato, Mocsta, JX and you. And JX and you really look town compared to them, so I'm 90% sure there is something fucked up in the claim or in the check. Of course, I don't appreciate to lynch a played with an uncontested miller claim. But he has to be scum by elimination, and there is evidence against him. Please add onto this that EZ wanted him dead, and EZ is now dead.
What do you think about yamato's slips ? I don't remember him using this kind of syntax in his town games.
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On February 02 2013 01:59 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2013 01:35 iamperfection wrote:On February 02 2013 01:30 Mocsta wrote: What is a stronger heuristic for you (for a scum read)
The miller claim
or the dt green check
green check probably less The question was in general. I believe at the start of the thread, it was discussed miller is about 40% likely. Hence, false miller claim can be countered about 60% of the time? Correct? If you think green check is worth less than miller claim, you think the likelihood of a green check being scum (in general), would be >>60% of the time? Correct? As in....you think that the chance of GF being in the game is greater than 60%?? & By corollay: if Miller is present, all green DT checks are essentially moot (as worth less than the miller claim)So if Vivax checked you, and you were green.. we could all state on your heuristic you are the Godfather
If we extend this to my situation. If you are going to sit here and continue to accuse me of being the godfather, go ahead and make a case. Regardless of xsksc inactivity (which he explained in full), judge me by my content - I have been contributing enough this cycle for a read IMHO. If you dont think I have been open and transparent; if you dont think I have been trying to spark conversation; if you dont think I am scum hunting with logic; log your vote my way, but dont forget to build that case. Otherwise, accept I am a VT; and continue the scum hunt.
@ Mocsta
One thing to consider is that scum (especially a scum player like marv) knows approximately how much blue roles there are in the town when they get to know the scumteam composition. So they can evaluate how much risk they take by claiming (cop is always more risky to claim because the cop has more probability to get rolled in the town). If you are not GF (and I assume you are going to work from this point of view ), then I think that the scumteam has no GF. No GF for the scumteam (ie a scum team with goon, goon, RB) means 3 or 4 letter slots for blue roles, so from the scumteam point of view, you should calculate a conditional probability to know the risk you have to be counterclaimed. This is something I didn't consider until now (I was working with "absolute" probabilities), but the risk a goon is taking to get counterclaimed by a real miller in this case is only roughly of 25%.
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On February 02 2013 02:01 Promethelax wrote: I've been working under the assumption that one V us a single shot vig here and VV is two single shot viggies.
if we're at VVMC (which I doubt) we'd theoretically have TTT = 2 Goons + Roleblocker, Serial Killer but if we have a serial killer we're only at VMC which has TTTT = 2 Goons + Roleblocker in all likelyhood this set-up is VVC vs. TTTT = 2 Goons + Roleblocker so final set-up would be 2 one shot vigs 1 one shot cop 7 VTs vs 2 goons 1RB
which means Moc is confirmed town if yamato flips scum. We obviously have no doc because anyone not protecting EZ last night is a fucking retard. EZ was the only scum shot in this town and he/they were obvious townies.
Yeah, I think Prom is right on this one. But I have difficulties to see iamp or JX as yamato's scumbuddy. But lynching yamato first is the right choice for sure. I'm quite confident that Prom is also a town vig when he brings up that kind of reasoning, because I came to the same point myself.
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On February 02 2013 02:23 Promethelax wrote: also, unrelated to the set up. Marv knows full well that I have said many times I will lynch him in lylo no matter what that I am willing to lose a game there as town because I'm much more likely to win it as town because a town marv alive in lylo is much more likely scum than town. He also knows I am often overly suspicious of him (see CT where I was the only guy calling him scum) and that I know him better than most on these forums. With a miller claim he gets away with a lot of inactivity blamed on LIX and we don't suspect him. He knew that Hapa, VE and I were all town and he knows we know him and know mafia pretty well. I'd say miller claim was a risk he'd take.
Also unrelated to the setup, yamato is fucking scummy And killing EZ over some 100% confirmed non-mafia players or a claimed DT who looks town shows that EZ had to be killed by the mafia. Because he was pushing yamato's lynch. Okay, I think we have brought enough arguments to get yamato lynched today. I'm going to get to bed then
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@ iamp
What's your take setup-wise ?
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On February 02 2013 12:50 iamperfection wrote:Why would you ask me that. You know I'm not good at it.
What do you think of a mass claim then ? It could help us to know if we have a GF or a SK. Do you think we have some roles left (like a medic) ? Are you ok with the yamato lynch now by the way ?
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@ JieXian
Would you oppose a mass claim ?
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On February 02 2013 18:46 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2013 18:26 Djodref wrote: @ JieXian
Would you oppose a mass claim ? Why should a mass claim actually mean anything. There has been so much setup speculation, its easy to lead town up the garden path and then swallow the "Red" pill.
I want to know for sure if we have a GF or a SK. And I doubt that would be the case if everybody claims VT. It could definitively clean you for example ^^
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So, yeah, JieXian, are you VT ? iamp, are you VT ?
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On February 02 2013 19:11 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2013 18:55 Djodref wrote:On February 02 2013 18:46 Mocsta wrote:On February 02 2013 18:26 Djodref wrote: @ JieXian
Would you oppose a mass claim ? Why should a mass claim actually mean anything. There has been so much setup speculation, its easy to lead town up the garden path and then swallow the "Red" pill. I want to know for sure if we have a GF or a SK. And I doubt that would be the case if everybody claims VT. It could definitively clean you for example ^^ Im not interested in being cleared by setup speculation. So thanks but no thanks. Anyways, whats stopping anyone that is unconfirmed (e.g iamperfection) from claiming VT; you then think there is no SK; but in fact he is SK (i used this as an example.. im not inferring he is SK) Unless you have been bullshitting something in the setup speculation to try and catch someone somewhere, I see this campaign by you as fruitless and non-committed attempts to scum hunt.
As an aside; I am used to seeing well constructed cases by you, both aesthetic and meaningful. This game seems different, the case(s) were list heavy, points not extrapolated; if anything, a general lack of care. In fact, I am not even sure if the cases you have shared meet your definition of a case, as detailed to xsksc. Do you disagree?
Yeah, I have been posting drunk most of the time for this game and I've been very busy at work. So, no nicely formatted cases this time I knew that my case against VE was crap, but I was too stubborn to reconsider my first impression. Then I was trolling people when threatening to shoot them D1. Because I thought I was going to be considered confirmed town. I honestly thought that xsksc was mafia when I wrote my case, and I liked that both EZ and me went after jay after reading D1 again. My mistake this game is that I didn't consider yamato as a possible lynch target until very late, because of the miller claim. And asking for the roles is important for me, because I can really know if there is a GF or not from this information. Mafia players or a potential SK could try to claim blue roles, but they are going to be owned by the setup, and that's also why I want to get rid of yamato first. Because I need to know if it was a fakeclaim or not. I think it's obviously a fakeclaim now
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The thing is that this game is over for the mafia if there is no SK. I'm very confident that yamato is going to flip mafia, and after that we should lynch into iamp and JieXian for the win. I trust Vivax claim, because his claim and check and behavior towards you fits only a storyline with town Vivax. And from the setup we could clear you at 100% (or close). So we are left with 2 people to lynch with only one mislynch. So, yeah, it's kind of over for me now That's why I'm not going to bother to write a very beautiful case. The scumslips from yamato are obvious enough, his filter indicates that he is scum. He doesn't even have any scumread today (so Prome kill on Sharrant was good in hindsight).
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so yeah
GG y u no concede ? The scum team is iamp and yamato, game over guys
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On February 02 2013 19:37 Promethelax wrote: My kill was bad bro, I hit town. Should have gone with my instinct and hit Yamato but I had this mental image of Marv calling me a jubjub for shooting a claimed miller and decided sharrent made more sense.
JX why are you just sheeping me this game? I hate sheeps and people who buddy me. I'm not good enough to be steeped and I'm to good to be buddied.
Imp, you wanna show you ar e town? You keep saying you are a nerfed IC but somehow I'm not seeing it this game. You stopped trying to figure things out. Which is how people know you are town and how they should know I am town. You are spending your time saying you are town instead of being town. Remember who did that first?
I would like iamp and JX to claim, would you push them to do so with me ?
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