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On December 03 2012 07:31 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2012 06:51 Hopeless1der wrote:On December 03 2012 06:49 Acrofales wrote: Lol. Hey guyses! I just hit a bunch of you for 250 damage a pop, but I swear I didn't think I was doing anything wrong. 250 damage to name claimers.. oh, and it has a side effect which is:
1. Useless and 2. Unverifiable.
Trolololol.
The only question that remains in my mind is why would SnB be dumb enough to claim this and verify that it really is an utterly destructive ability for town? In fact, if there is one person in this game who should know better, it is a scum SnB: he was scum in SSM, the only game where I have seen an early mass claim completely wipe scum from the face of the game, due to a combination of Sandroba's genius and scum completely bolloxing up their fakeclaims. so the conclusion is SnB is town or retarded scum? SnB is scum for claiming an ability that has no town purpose at all.
this is a stupid reason to think i'm scum, did you forget rule number one of greymist games?
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On December 03 2012 07:53 kitaman27 wrote: strongandbig...are you willing to use your role tonight on phagga to confirm he is not golem?
yeah okay
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On December 03 2012 07:54 kitaman27 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2012 07:53 strongandbig wrote:On December 03 2012 07:53 kitaman27 wrote: strongandbig...are you willing to use your role tonight on phagga to confirm he is not golem? yeah okay What were you planning before?
headbutt drazerk again
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Alright, so I've read up on Syllo's check on me, and I have to conclude that I was bus-driven with a scum player who actually was targeting djodref. I didn't get a roleblock notification, I was told that my action did not succeed because phagga's rolename was not Golem.
Guys, think about this for a minute before you do something you'll all regret. Right now you're lynching me because of Syllo's investigation, but you have to admit that I was the obvious target for framing, bus driving, and other anti-investigation roles.
Other than that, the main reason for lynching me is that "my role doesn't seem like a normal town role." I agree with that, but that doesn't indicate anything about my alignment - this is a greymist game, that's the kind of thing he delights in.
So please, if someone wants to actually make a case on me based around my filter, do so - but maybe if no one can do that you guys will take the hint and figure out that i'm town.
On December 03 2012 16:59 Promethelax wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2012 16:54 syllogism wrote: That's why I'm waiting until S&B flips because people who he has allegedly targeted have experienced some weird things (Oats not receiving a heal and now something messing with you). good point. SnB, anything else you wanna claim about your ability? Besides the fact that you attacked me with it like an idiot. Let me be clear, without any other aspect of your claim to explain what is happening to your targets I will vote you.
I thought I was healing you. We've been over this already. I admit I failed when I didn't figure out how my role actually works, but I never have told you anything but the truth.
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On November 29 2012 22:12 strongandbig wrote:I decided to put this in a separate post, it's my take on the goodkarma case that promethelax put out. I think goodkarma definitely is the right person to be scrutinizing right now given how the party turned out. Since acro and keir were in the party, its failure doesn't automatically make goodkarma scum; but it should put him right under the microscope. Show nested quote +On November 29 2012 12:43 iamperfection wrote: also i think proms case is very strong and coupled with the fact of the mission failure and his shit lurker shoot list i think gk is scum this is a pretty good summary, the case is good even without taking the mission failure into account. I don't like GK's response to a few points in the case. I'm not going to quote the whole back-and-forth here, because I really don't have time to dig through the quote nesting. I'll just post what I don't like about the response: - I think he's ignoring the part where he told people not to setup speculate, and then later ignored his own advice. It's not that setup speculation is inherently scummy in a closed setup like this, but giving global advice at the start of the game is an easy way to make yourself look townie and scum like to do it; but if a townie gives this kind of advice it's because they really believe it, whereas scum don't and are therefore much more likely to ignore their own advice later when the thread sentiment moves in that direction.
- GK claims there is a town motivation for asking in the thread whether party members are kill immune. I agree that there is a motivation for asking what happens if a party member is killed but asking whether the party members can be killed is information that only helps scum imo.
- I also don't like how gk is insisting that "not shooting toad" would've been a better move for town. toad could easily be lying about being bulletproof, occam's razor says he most likely is, and if we'd been able to take toad down with vigshots we could've used today's lynch to much better effect.
On the other hand, I don't think the phagga association thing is a big deal even if GK is scum, I could see a scum easily doing that with a townie (since they know their read will be right). Show nested quote +On November 29 2012 13:59 Promethelax wrote: Okay, you've replied. I've explained my points. I'm going to stop helping you shit up the thread now.
Other players: I'd like your comments on GK's claim and what that does/doesn't do to exonerate him. I'd also like those of you who haven't weighed in on it yet to tell me what you think of him from my case. This is an interesting point. I'm inclined to believe that GK did actually shoot drazerk, it seems unlikely that scum would claim this and then just shout "what now counterclaim me bro". (or if GK is scum, it could've been anyone on the scum team.) From the early damage reports, it seems possible that the scum team was spreading their kp around pretty liberally, and given drazerk's claimed abilities it's possible they put some of it on him if they thought he was sk. Alternatively, it's possible that GK has a vig-ish role and chose town targets that looked scummy to set up a fakeclaim, that wouldn't be surprising. So I really don't see how this claim clears GK. At first I was going to say "it probably means that GK and drazerk aren't scum buddies because then they wouldn't know where that damage came from and they would have to risk a counterclaim," but then I realized that if they are scum buddies it's entirely possible and likely that drazerk just lied about taking that damage. So I don't see how this claim clears anybody. At the moment I have been decently convinced that GK is scum, but I'm going to vote toad because he's claimed scum in the thread and we should kill the scum right in front of us.
I think the best bet for actually killing scum today is to kill goodkarma. Unlike me, there actually is a real case on him, and it's one that hasn't been answered to anything near my satisfaction. So ##vote: goodkarma
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On December 04 2012 04:14 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2012 04:01 iamperfection wrote: s&b does have a point about a possible bus driver type role. How many bus drivers do you think scum has? And if it was a town role, why did they use it on phagga, whom s&b said he was going to target at syllo's (?) request? And if it was a townie, why haven't they claimed it? the "frame bus" was much more like a framer than a bus driver, it's quite possible they have that and also a real bus driver
And i don't think they used it on phagga, I think they used it on me - so one of them, who was going to shoot djodref, actually got roleblocked+tracked by syllogism
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On December 04 2012 03:28 Clarity_nl wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2012 03:20 strongandbig wrote:Alright, so I've read up on Syllo's check on me, and I have to conclude that I was bus-driven with a scum player who actually was targeting djodref. I didn't get a roleblock notification, I was told that my action did not succeed because phagga's rolename was not Golem. Guys, think about this for a minute before you do something you'll all regret. Right now you're lynching me because of Syllo's investigation, but you have to admit that I was the obvious target for framing, bus driving, and other anti-investigation roles. Other than that, the main reason for lynching me is that "my role doesn't seem like a normal town role." I agree with that, but that doesn't indicate anything about my alignment - this is a greymist game, that's the kind of thing he delights in. So please, if someone wants to actually make a case on me based around my filter, do so - but maybe if no one can do that you guys will take the hint and figure out that i'm town. On December 03 2012 16:59 Promethelax wrote:On December 03 2012 16:54 syllogism wrote: That's why I'm waiting until S&B flips because people who he has allegedly targeted have experienced some weird things (Oats not receiving a heal and now something messing with you). good point. SnB, anything else you wanna claim about your ability? Besides the fact that you attacked me with it like an idiot. Let me be clear, without any other aspect of your claim to explain what is happening to your targets I will vote you. I thought I was healing you. We've been over this already. I admit I failed when I didn't figure out how my role actually works, but I never have told you anything but the truth. You see, it's not just that your ability doesn't seem townlike, it's the way you've handled the use of your ability AND the fact that you "didn't care that much" about confirming your assumptions when it came to your abilities. Even ignoring all of that you have been practically useless all game, didn't bother telling us you were going to be away for a couple of days until you were LITERALLY AT THE AIRPORT and a lackluster defense of any accusation thrown at you.
I'll admit, my play this game has been terrible, and I'm sorry for it. I shouldn't have joined the game when I was going to be gone, but in my own defense there was no way to know that this would be the single most active game in TL mafia history. It's just practically impossible to even keep up, much less to seriously contribute.
But scummy? How do any of the things you said push a scum agenda or distinguish between "scum" and "bad town player"? Once I got used to thinking of my ability in a certain way, it didn't occur to me to question it later on when I could actually take some time to think about the game.
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On December 04 2012 04:21 iamperfection wrote: s&b i think you should do one of those list posts with your thoughts on all the players in the game.
do those ever actually help?
i can if you really think it would help, but usually all those things do is make the person posting them look like a scum desperate to put together something that looks like a contribution
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##lynch cavejohnson ##epoch 1999 Lets get this shit over with yo Both of these things are gonna happen eventually might as well do them now
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Guys leave phagga alone
It's not his fault
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On December 05 2012 06:52 Promethelax wrote: I like Draz. When he decides to participate he often has great ideas. Gems in the rough.
However, Draz, you aren't actually giving me anything to work with. I still want to know who you think is scum.
you forget drazerk doesn't try to find scum
it's just not how he plays mafia OH WAIT
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On December 05 2012 06:55 CaveJohnson wrote: Just stop posting SnB you attacking me is null either way so it won't work.
lol IM SO NULL RIGHT NOW GUIZ
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hey so who wants to talk about third party players? i bet kitaman is antitown third party
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DEATH POST!!!!!!!!!!
BL DHF TOWN BWAHAHAA
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Crossposting from the obs qt
the reason it was so hard for us to kill people this game was that (1) there were incentives to spread out our damage, stuff like my roleshot and people deciding to use their night actions to build up shitty alibies rather than just do damage to our main targets. (2) people were choosing their individual actions rather than coordinating as a team. I've learned a big lesson here for if I'm scum again in a heavily themed game, you have to have a plan. (3) to go along with (2), several of the team members were either uninvested or discombobulated and confused by how massive the thread was. Sandro, toad, REDACTED, biosc, and myself all fell into this category. I don't know what reasons REDACTED and biosc had for replacing, and toad was confirmed scum pretty early on and just kind of had to sit there and wait to be lynched, so their dis-investment is understandable. But the scum team really had zero players who were able to keep up with the thread. (4) there were some blatantly confusing decisions made on targets. For example, I still am unsure why we focus fired Marv, when his power was pretty useless, he wasn't pushing any cases on any of us, and he was like the strongest advocate of me being town. It ended up not mattering since I got lynched based on sandro's night action result rather than the case against me, but I think we should have focus fired Syllo instead. Another confusing decision is why we decided to focus so much KP on djodref.
The thing about those decisions is, they weren't discussed and decided based on a strategy so much as they were just the results of someone at the last minute being 'oh shit i have to send in night actions'. The scum team really needed someone to coordinate them, but our strongest scum player (imo) (Toad) was confirmed scum by dt checks super early. Sandro was too wrapped up in how bad he is at playing scum and how well syllogism can read him to actually try to do anything, he just psyched himself out and then gave up. BioSC and REDACTED are both pretty inexperienced, and both replaced out. REDACTED and REDACTED both have more experience playing scum than I do (I think - could be wrong here) but they're normally pretty low-profile players anyway; but they were probably the most engaged of the whole scum team, props to them, but they didn't really do anything in the way of leadership. And if I really could focus on the game I would have been able to at least try to organize a team strategy (or at least, I'd like to think so), but I was planning on catching up to the game when I got back from England and it just got so big that could never make headway.
Having VE replace in for biosc gave me hope that he would pull us together, but that just didn't happen and instead he just stopped playing for whatever reason.
So yeah, there's absolutely no way to blame mechanics or luck. The blame for losing this hard should go squarely at the feet of the mafia team, and of the town's ridiculous horrible super activity.
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Honestly though I'm very disappointed in sandroba. Syllo caught him right away, sure, but as soon as that happened he didn't even try.
The massive difference in shit-giving between when some players are scum versus town is kind of a problem. It's like, sacrificing one half of your game to make the other half better. Even if you enjoy one side more, it's just, like, disrespectful to your teammates.
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But yeah, having two replacements didn't help either, since the game was so active it was pretty much impossible to replace into competently
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