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On November 26 2012 17:01 Sonic Death Monkey wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2012 16:49 Aquanim wrote: Hello everyone, I'm back.
For now:
##Vote: Munk-E
I require more posts from Munk-E to make any kind of a read on him. Post some more stuff Munk-E, look for scum (somewhere other than in Oatsmaster's early contributions, there's plenty more to read now). If your posts have new content this vote will disappear. Aqua, that's all you got after all this discussion?
It is not. (Apologies, this took a while to write, and yes, I was aware of the hypocrisy.)
tl;dr: I believe Kickstart is scum.
Kickstart's First Post
Kickstart's first post was completely contentless. Some rambling about a previous game he's played, just filling space, and the same jab at Oatsmaster that pretty much every other player made. SDM and Jacob had the same material to work with and gave some sensible analysis.
And then, after four hours of lurking...
DING DING DING DING DING
...Kickstart jumps on Oatsmaster's CC vote.
On November 25 2012 21:27 Kickstart wrote:First off your format for your vote is wrong, secondly saying you are "intensely serious" is not a case on cheesecake. Frankly this is ridiculous and so anti-town so far that if it continues I don't think we should keep you around because this is either scum play or bad town play. The beginning of your filter is all fluff, which isn't that big of a deal since it is the start of the game and I don't really expect anything amazing from anyone, but then you post: Show nested quote +On November 25 2012 13:23 Oatsmaster wrote: I got a scum feeling from cheesecake with his first 2 posts, I suggest we lynch him Show nested quote +On November 25 2012 13:46 Oatsmaster wrote: Im seriously not sarcastic. Seriously. Its a feeling, I cant base it off anything though :/ I already told you before, if you are suspicious of someone you need to make a better post than that, you need to make a case against the person providing reasons for why they are suspicious. Then there is this: Show nested quote +On November 25 2012 13:53 Oatsmaster wrote: Yeah, also the worst decision to do 1 for 1 trades. think about it if I'm scum, why would I randomly single out cheesecake? why did I even post? so far this game is so slow and as scum, they want it that way. Why would you bring up "think about if I was scum", that is not a town mindset. Scum are the ones who would say something like that, all town needs to do is let their actions show that they are being pro-town, and so far you arent. And then the final straw for me so far is this: Show nested quote +On November 25 2012 18:45 Oatsmaster wrote:yeah that was kinda extreme and was said to provoke a reaction. Which kinda worked :D Nothing personal Cheesecake, I think you got extremely screwed by misunderstandings the last game Show nested quote +On November 25 2012 21:12 Oatsmaster wrote: I probably cant be around during lynch but I will try to be there a few hours before. Vote: Cheesecake I am intensely serious. Munk-e and Jacob, where did you go? So you say yeah ok me saying cheese is scum without providing any reasoning is a bit extreme, THEN YOU DO IT ANYWAYS????? This is unacceptable. I suggest you start making some real cases, untill then: ##vote: Oatsmaster
Kickstart claims Oatsmaster's vote is "anti-town", or "if it continues I don't think we should keep you around because this is either scum play or bad town play". How in the hell is voting for your top scum read anti town? Especially when the thread has stagnated. Also, trying to remove guilt from himself if/when Oats flips town ("I told you guys he might be bad town anyway, remember?") I'll grant you Oatsmaster is not playing cautious obv-town, but I don't really see anything he's done as being exceptionally scum motivated. What kind of newbie scum randomly tunnels someone within their first three posts? For reference, a post about Oatsmaster which meets with more of my approval is HeloKnight's return #246. Sure, it's not entirely original, but at least he's making an effort. HeloKnight is LOOKING FOR SCUMINESS in Oatsmaster with this post, not saying "Take your vote off Cheesecake because it's bad."
Kickstart's subsquent posts don't inspire a lot of town feeling in me either. Next were some short postsposts, which seem to be more about defending Cheesecake than looking for Oats scum.
On November 25 2012 22:02 Kickstart wrote: This is stupid btw, we should be scumhunting. If you are going to vote someone, you need to show why you think they are scum. I showed why your posting so far and your vote is crap, and you have still refused to make a case or provide adequate reasoning for your vote. We need to be finding scum - so do it and stop wasting time.
With that I will ask again: Can you give us a reason why you think Cheese is scummy and why you voted for him? "This is stupid btw, we should be scumhunting." Do as I say, not as I do? None of Kickstart's posts are about Oatsmaster being scum, just about Oatsmaster being bad (specifically, his vote on Cheese being bad).
On November 25 2012 22:40 Kickstart wrote: You two seem to be agreeing that you don't think Oats is scum. Can you explain his vote onto cheese then, because he apparently can't provide a decent explanation for it himself.
How is throwing a random vote onto someone without giving any sort of decent explanation town play? All Oats' vote has done is sow confusion because of how pointless it seems to be - which is scummy. Now if you have actual reasons to vote for someone, and present them to everyone, then discussion can flow from it and we can better assess everyone and get some reads going - but as I said you didn't provide that so have only managed to cause confusion.
So aside from waiting for a decent explanation from Oats, I would like for some other people to actually get involved in the thread, so far discussion has been between a few people and on not a very broad spectrum of topics, neither of which is good for town at this point.
GUYS GUYS WHY ARE YOU NOT PUSHING MY MISLYNCH WAGON FOR ME GUYS
And then there was some more defence of Cheesecake.
On November 26 2012 06:09 Kickstart wrote: Lol wow I missed that post from yama, glad you pointed it out SDM because yeah it is suspicious.
@ Yamato77 You saying Cheese doesn't read town is nice and all, but I am more interested (as I think SDM has said (and you better not accuse me of what you accused cheese of SDM!)) in if you read him as scum. Do you have any scum reads at all? As far as I can tell you are just saying you are suspicious of cheese because he said he was suspicious of you.... Pretty opportunistic poke at yamato, but doesn't lose sight of his main goal - defend the cheesecake!
Kickstart also pokes lurkers a lot - easy to do as scum or town. No judgement here.
Conclusion: Everyone else commented on Oatsmaster's read and vote based on how they reflected on Oatsmaster. Kickstart appears to be placing a much greater emphasis on how a vote for Cheesecake is bad. In particular, I believe Kickstart was the only one who wanted Oatsmaster to take his CC vote back (which doesn't make any sense, what's done is done and Oatsmaster will just take more flak if he does). Besides Oatsmaster, Kickstart hasn't looked for scum anywhere else at all, and I don't think his scumhunting on Oatsmaster is genuine. His only priority appears to be defending Cheesecake.
There are three possibilities:
(1) Kickstart is scum, knows Mr. Cheesecake is town and is white-knighting him. A lot. (2) Kickstart and Mr. Cheesecake are both scum and Kickstart is defending his scumbuddy. (3) Kickstart is town, has a town read on Mr. Cheesecake (correct or not) and for some reason feels the need to defend him vehemently against all attacks, in lieu of any actual search for scum.
I don't buy (3), and so
##Vote: Kickstart
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Oh, and don't think that lets you off the hook, Munk-E.
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@everyone here: do you agree with my Kickstart case? If not, why not? If so, why aren't you voting him? Do you find someone else scummier?
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In reference to the Yamato case, this post has been coming up:
On November 25 2012 14:16 yamato77 wrote: Still feel uneasy about me? When I saw this post originally, I thought the same thing that I've been seeing in your reads - that it seems like anxious scum. This was in reference to a post I made which (among other things) said I was uneasy about yamato. However, yamato (and CC) had posted since my last refresh and I then posted that I'd been ninja-d a lot. I can well believe that yamato might have thought I'd made the second post because my uneasiness about him had been nullified.
Could well still be scum paranoia, but there's a reasonable innocent explanation too.
I'm still thinking about the rest of the case.
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On November 26 2012 16:57 Sonic Death Monkey wrote: Oats, do you have any other scum reads? In a game where 90% of the players look like scum I'm having a hard time seeing a townie so convinced of a target at this point.
I'm also legitimately concerned about Jacob and Aqua. They really seem to not want to take a stance on anything. Jacob seems really wishy-washy and not very interested in finding a lynch candidate. He's showing no sense of urgency at all and quite satisfied with the current state of the game, which I would expect scum to be right now because we're really heading nowhere and activity is low.
I'm soon heading off to school and I would've liked to be able to narrow down my potential list of lynch candidates, but there are probably 5 players I'd consider now.
I don't think I saw anything from you about Jacob after this post. Do you still feel this way about Jacob?
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I'll be heading off in a moment. My last chance to change my vote will be about eight hours from now, so any attempts to convince me that my Kickstart case is flawed will have to come before then.
In short, I don't see any reason (good or bad) for a town Kickstart to defend Mr. Cheesecake as much as he is, without any attempts to find scum aside from a non-insightful case on Oatsmaster. I don't think it's a good play as scum either, but I can see the instinctive appeal of a "let's defend someone I know is town" mentality - and I think it's worse as town play than scum play.
As far as the other lynch candidates go (which I'll define as people who had/have votes on them): - Munk-E really, really needs to post more, but scum lynch > lurker lynch. - My read on Mr. Cheesecake is inconclusive. I was feeling him as scummish initially, but his game stepped up when he stopped focusing on Oatsmaster's vote. - I'm not feeling Oatsmaster scum, he's just too... enthusiastic, I guess. - Comparing Yamato77 to HeloKnight (two players who have similar profiles, I think) I see more purpose in Yamato's posts. To clarify, my feeling is that Yamato is giving more thought into how his posts can uncover scum. Compare their filters, YMMV.
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On November 27 2012 00:15 Sonic Death Monkey wrote:@Aqua I expressed why I wasn't entirely convinced about your Kick case here. If you're convinced he's scum, can you explain why you don't share those concerns?
Kickstart's defence of Cheesecake wasn't limited to Oatsmaster's case - iirc he poked at the use of meta in your CC case, too. The combination of these two, and the lack of serious posting on any other topics really, is what's setting me off. I'm not quite as convinced as I was last night, but I certainly don't have any better reads.
On November 26 2012 22:02 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: @Aqua
Do you REALLY think Yamato has more insightful posts than Helo? Helo was playing neutral, sure, but at least he had the audacity to come up with an original case on Munk with the little posts he had. Imo he's showing way more initiative than this Yamato fellow. Not sure I've read the case in detail, but with the natural suspiciousness on someone with two posts total it's not hard to make some kind of convincing case. I'm not saying Yamato is TELLING us anything more useful, but I just get the feeling that his posts are probing people a little more. Asking more interesting questions. It's a vague feeling though.
My vote stays on Kickstart... I'm beginning to see how he might do this as town, but I still think that what he's been posting would look awfully tempting as mafia. I think I might be missing something about Yamato that you are all seeing, but I don't have time to look at all of his posts in context right now. I'm not comfortable leaving a vote on Munk-E when his filter (and the substantiation of any reads on him) could quadruple in size.
Kickstart, if you're town, I expect serious and active scumhunting from you in the future.
See you on the other side.
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Hey, I'm back. So you know, I had no time to read the thread after this post:
On November 27 2012 06:11 Aquanim wrote:
...
I'm not comfortable leaving a vote on Munk-E when his filter (and the substantiation of any reads on him) could quadruple in size.
... At that point Munk-E had made four in-game posts (one of which I don't think I saw) and I had no idea which of a Yamato or Munk-E lynch would take off.
Regardless, I think the Munk-E wagon was so big that scum would feel quite comfortable both hopping on it - safety in numbers.
Which brings me to Kickstart. To clarify, I don't think that pushing Oatsmaster as he did then or now is scummy - it just wasn't particularly town (ranting about bad/incautious town plays is not a hard thing to do). My concern is and always was his repeating defence of Cheesecake - it was the consistent theme of the majority of his posts. I've never played mafia on a forum before (and not much elsewhere) but I've read a few games, and someone spending most of their posts defending another player seemed completely bizarre.
However, I've realised a flaw in my case. At the end, I listed three possibilities:
On November 26 2012 17:35 Aquanim wrote: ... There are three possibilities:
(1) Kickstart is scum, knows Mr. Cheesecake is town and is white-knighting him. A lot. (2) Kickstart and Mr. Cheesecake are both scum and Kickstart is defending his scumbuddy. (3) Kickstart is town, has a town read on Mr. Cheesecake (correct or not) and for some reason feels the need to defend him vehemently against all attacks, in lieu of any actual search for scum.
These all assume that Kickstart was deliberately choosing to defend Cheesecake a lot (which, as I've said, makes no damn sense to me as a town move). However, if this wasn't a conscious decision and he just happened to spend a lot of time defending CC, then that makes some sense. The points (or lack thereof) he was attacking in the CC cases were indeed not that good and his statements were rational.
So, having found a credible town explanation for Kickstart's posting I'm downgrading my scum read on him. He is not a town read, either. Attacking very bad play and refuting fallacious arguments are not hard for scum to fake.
More reading and posting after food.
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EBWOP: It is my opinion (though this may alter a little after reread) that not many people in this game are doing things which are hard for scum to fake.
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On November 27 2012 16:52 Oatsmaster wrote: Why would scum try to shoot down bad arguements? doesnt it benefit them to have suspicion on a town player?
Well, yes... but it benefits scum more to look like they are townies. Almost every case scum makes is going to be on a town player, so they're going to have to lie a lot. By defending a townie, a scum player can make an argument which they know is correct. Furthermore, if they refute a bad case, that doesn't mean they can't make a better case on that player later without appearing to contradict themselves so much. And for that matter, bad cases are easier to refute without letting slip that the scum player KNOWS the other guy's town.
Attacking bad arguments is also a good thing to do as town, so it's not much of a direct tell IMO. But as I said, if a player hasn't done anything which would be hard for scum to do, that's cause for suspicion in my book.
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On November 26 2012 15:56 yamato77 wrote: I'll make my case against CC when I get home. My early game posts were obviously bad play. I get that now. Since then I think I'm quickly improving. I keep asking because it does no good to be town and get lynched day one for playing like scum.
That being said, I completely understand SDM's vote to me, but I have not changed my opinion on CC. What happened to the case on CC? I know you were defending yourself, but I still want to see this case.
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@Mr. Cheesecake: What do you think is important for a good town atmosphere in Day 1? How do you think you contributed to this?
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On November 27 2012 20:30 JacobStrangelove wrote:Show nested quote +On November 27 2012 18:26 Aquanim wrote: @Mr. Cheesecake: What do you think is important for a good town atmosphere in Day 1? How do you think you contributed to this? How does this question help? (then again how does the question I am asking now help) hmm *starts searching filters for scum*
I'm having difficulty understanding Cheesecake's thought processes at the moment. I'd like to hear him express an opinion on something which isn't a direct attack or a response to an "OMG you're scum!!!1!" so I can get to know him a little better.
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The Munk-E Lynch - How It Went Down
(Votecounts in the spoilers.)
26th November
(Before this is Oatsmaster's CC vote and Kickstart's Oats vote.) [4:59] SDM FoS's Cheesecake, makes case largely based on meta. [5:01] SDM votes Cheesecake. [5:18] Munk-E appears in thread with useless post. [6:18] Munk-E makes a less useless post on Oatsmaster. [6:58] Having obtained a meaningful post from HeloKnight, CC un-FoS's him and Cheesecake votes Yamato. [7:02] SDM unvotes Cheesecake. SDM votes Yamato.
+ Show Spoiler +Votecount:
Mr. Cheesecake(1): Oatsmaster Oatsmaster(1): Kickstart Yamato77(2): Mr. Cheesecake, Sonic Death Monkey
[9:22] HeloKnight analyses Munk-E's (short) filter. HeloKnight votes Munk-E. [16:49] Aquanim votes Munk-E. [17:35] Aquanim makes Kickstart case. Aquanim votes Kickstart. [23:10] Yamato makes a long defensive post and gives his reads. [23:14] SDM summarises current cases.
27th November
[0:09] Kickstart makes an angry counter-post to case against him. [0:15] SDM votes Munk-E.
+ Show Spoiler +Votecount:
Mr. Cheesecake (1): Oatsmaster Oatsmaster(1): Kickstart Yamato77 (1): Mr. Cheesecake Munk-E(2): HeloKnight,Sonic Death Monkey Kickstart(1): Aquanim
[0:38] Kickstart posts his reads. [0:39] Yamato votes Munk-E. [2:13] Jacob votes Yamato. [2:16] Cheesecake analyses Yamato further, and expresses the opinion that he "feels like this Munk-E lynch is an easy way for scum to secure a mislynch". Likes Helo, feels Oats isn't doing much. [5:51] Munk-E makes a post on Yamato. Munk-E votes Yamato. [6:04] Kickstart is satisfied with Munk-E. Kickstart unvotes Oatsmaster. Kickstart votes Yamato. [6:11] Aquanim leaves vote on Kickstart and leaves. [6:33] HeloKnight posts on Munk-E, is not convinced. [7:19] Yamato rants at Munk-E.
+ Show Spoiler +Votecount:
Mr. Cheesecake (1): Oatsmaster Yamato77 (4): Mr. Cheesecake, Kickstart, Jacob, Munk-E Munk-E (3): HeloKnight, Sonic Death Monkey, Yamato77 Kickstart(1): Aquanim
[7:25] Mr. Cheesecake votes Kickstart. [7:47] Mr. Cheesecake unvotes Kickstart. [7:51] Oatsmaster votes Kickstart. [8:40] Mr. Cheesecake votes Munk-E and leaves. Justifies his switch by saying he thinks lynching a town Munk-E would be better than lynching a town Yamato. [8:40 - 8:55] Jacob and Yamato discuss Yamato's play. [10:10] Debears is modkilled.
+ Show Spoiler +Votecount:
Yamato77 (3): Kickstart, Jacob, Munk-E Munk-E (4): HeloKnight, Sonic Death Monkey, Yamato77, Mr. Cheesecake Kickstart(2): Aquanim, Oatsmaster
[10:11] Jacob claims he "can't vote for Yamato with the votes like this". Jacob votes Munk-E. [10:17] Oatsmaster and Kickstart going at it again. [10:52] HeloKnight posts about Munk-E again. [11:25] Oatsmaster approves of Kickstart's "vitriol and fire" play. Oatsmaster unvotes Kickstart. Oatsmaster votes Munk-E. + Show Spoiler +Votecount:
Yamato77 (1): Kickstart, Munk-E Munk-E (6): HeloKnight, Sonic Death Monkey, Yamato77, Mr. Cheesecake, Jacob, Oatsmaster Kickstart(1): Aquanim [11:35] Munk-E makes a pretty bad final plea. [11:36] HeloKnight becomes a little more conciliatory about Munk-E's play, but doesn't want to lynch Yamato.
... and nothing more of importance until Munk-E flips VT at 12. At least he wasn't blue, I guess.
So, what's to be learned from this?
One question is: what happened to the Yamato lynch? Up until four hours before lynch Yamato was leading Munk-E in the lynch stakes.
@everyone who switched from Yamato to Munk-E (in other words, everyone except Kickstart): Why did you switch? And for that matter, Kickstart, why didn't you switch?
Also of note: HeloKnight made the original case on Munk-E, and pushed it pretty hard except at the end (when a Munk-E lynch was pretty much a lock):
On November 27 2012 11:36 HeloKnight wrote: Okay, I still think it's a little suspicious that your top read also happened to be the wagon of the time, but I'll drop that point because a townie would go after their top scum read. I still don't want to lynch yamato today. I'm trying to not "white knight" him and to keep my mind open to him as scum, but I'm leaning pretty hard towards a newbie town feel right now.
Trying to make himself look a little better for when Munk-E flips green, and keeping his options open on yamato?
Looking through HeloKnight's filter I don't see much scumhunting substance besides his Munk-E case and an earlier, inconclusive post on Oatsmaster (and let's face it, a case on a lurker with two posts isn't exactly difficult to concoct). I'd appreciate other people looking through HeloKnight's posts and giving your opinion.
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As before, I'll have time for a quick check in about eight hours and then no more opportunities before the day post.
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On November 28 2012 00:20 yamato77 wrote: Also I want more from Aqua and Helos. Aqua, you made the original case on kick. Your vote stuck with kick. What do you think of his play right now? Is your backing of your initial scum read final or are you still suspicious?
I don't think I have the same problems with his play as I did previously, but I still haven't read anything he's posted and thought to myself "That's not coming from scum".
On November 28 2012 01:21 Kickstart wrote: The fact that is can be applied to anyone inherently makes it a bad case when applied to one person.
Indeed, and now that I've realised that my case can be I am taking off the Tunnel-Glasses (tm) (made by Confirmation Bias Inc.) and taking another good look at everyone else.
And I'll try one last time: I agree that the cases on Cheesecake were bad. I agree that Oatsmaster's posts were not up to scratch. What I didn't like about your posting was just HOW MUCH you were attacking the bad cases on Cheesecake (which is not something I ever felt the urge to do, Cheesecake can take care of himself) and HOW LITTLE you posted on anyone but Oats.
And I've still seen no reply to these questions:
On November 27 2012 18:18 Aquanim wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2012 15:56 yamato77 wrote: I'll make my case against CC when I get home. My early game posts were obviously bad play. I get that now. Since then I think I'm quickly improving. I keep asking because it does no good to be town and get lynched day one for playing like scum.
That being said, I completely understand SDM's vote to me, but I have not changed my opinion on CC. What happened to the case on CC? I know you were defending yourself, but I still want to see this case.
On November 27 2012 18:26 Aquanim wrote: @Mr. Cheesecake: What do you think is important for a good town atmosphere in Day 1? How do you think you contributed to this?
One question is: what happened to the Yamato lynch? Up until four hours before lynch Yamato was leading Munk-E in the lynch stakes. @everyone who switched from Yamato to Munk-E (in other words, everyone except Kickstart): Why did you switch? And for that matter, Kickstart, why didn't you switch? Also of note: HeloKnight made the original case on Munk-E, and pushed it pretty hard except at the end (when a Munk-E lynch was pretty much a lock): Show nested quote +On November 27 2012 11:36 HeloKnight wrote: Okay, I still think it's a little suspicious that your top read also happened to be the wagon of the time, but I'll drop that point because a townie would go after their top scum read. I still don't want to lynch yamato today. I'm trying to not "white knight" him and to keep my mind open to him as scum, but I'm leaning pretty hard towards a newbie town feel right now. Trying to make himself look a little better for when Munk-E flips green, and keeping his options open on yamato? Looking through HeloKnight's filter I don't see much scumhunting substance besides his Munk-E case and an earlier, inconclusive post on Oatsmaster (and let's face it, a case on a lurker with two posts isn't exactly difficult to concoct). I'd appreciate other people looking through HeloKnight's posts and giving your opinion.
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On November 28 2012 02:23 Sonic Death Monkey wrote:Show nested quote +On November 27 2012 21:41 Aquanim wrote: So, what's to be learned from this?
One question is: what happened to the Yamato lynch? Up until four hours before lynch Yamato was leading Munk-E in the lynch stakes.
@everyone who switched from Yamato to Munk-E (in other words, everyone except Kickstart): Why did you switch? And for that matter, Kickstart, why didn't you switch?
I don't particularly like this broad question and I don't particularly think voting for Munk-E was scummy. I think it's much better to focus on someone who actually did look really scummy during the voting, throwing out those questions makes it so easy for scum to slip by in a sea of answers. My explanation: + Show Spoiler +I was one of the first to express suspicion of Yamato (I actually think Aqua was the first but I can't be bothered to go back and check). I later made the case against Cake, which I thought was pretty good but after Cake had responded didn't feel was strong enough. When I made the case against Cake, Yamato sheeped it hard with really poor motivation, which made me switch to him since I had already been suspicious of him.
When Yamato started explaining himself I got the feeling he was genuine. Yes, this is kind of abstract, but I thought his effort to change read townie. Also, Yamato expressed before the game started that Marv was his role model for town play. From what I've seen from Marv he tends to post a lot of one-liners, so I was getting the feeling yamato had tried the Marv strat, it had backfired, and now he was feeling bad because he had fucked up. He explained what his thought process through-out the game and tried to be more transparent than his one-liners had been. Some attacked him for just restating events, but I thought his way of explaining himself was rather good. What was still lacking was original cases, but I let that slip by because making original cases while defending himself isn't really that easy (and honestly, when it comes to a lack of original cases he had competition of a lot of other players).
(As an aside, the Yamato wagon still gained momentum even after I jumped off. I thought his response to this wagon was rather townie. This is getting really long-winded so I won't go into detail, but for obvious reasons this part of the defense had nothing to do with me switching to Munk-E
At that point I switched to Munk-E. He really had shown no effort and I convinced myself he was an ok vote. I still think he was a better vote than Yamato, but I also still think it was a bad vote in the sense it was a coin-flip. Like I said at the time, it was a cop out and admitting that I couldn't find a good scum read. Basically a policy lynch. Now Aqua, I'm a bit curious about your vote on Munk-E. If found it weird. If I recall correctly, you made a short post voting for Munk-E. Then 45 minutes later you had typed out a long-ass case on Kick. I know those posts take a lot of time to write. Did you really read through Kicks filter, decide he was scummy, type up that post with all the formatting and stuff all in 45 minutes? If yes, then it seems you couldn't have put a lot of thought into your case and weighing it against other possibilities (weird considering how confident you seemed it was the best case out there).
I asked that question because I didn't have any idea of the spirit of the thread or thoughts at that time - if I'd been reading and interacting with the wagons I wouldn't have asked. The question is indeed broad and I didn't expect to gain a huge amount with it.
As for my vote on Munk-E, I came back, read the thread, saw he still hadn't posted much of anything and voted him on principle. It was a vote intended to make him post some more - any decisions on my part as to whether he was scum worthy of a lynch was going to come after his posts.
I had written up half of the case on Kickstart the day before, but I wasn't fully confident in it without seeing another day of his posting patterns before I shook the tree (which didn't change much - if they had I'd have thrown the case out). Having gone back and read through exactly what he'd said since, I added his new posts and posted the case.
On November 28 2012 06:33 Sonic Death Monkey wrote: @Aqua How did you become so convinced Kick was scum (or at least the best lynch candidate)? You don't seem to put that much time into this game, so it seems a bit weird to me.
I had a lot more time to put into it the first day, and that was when the nucleus of the Kick case was born. Also, I put a little more time into the game than might be apparent - most of my time for the next few hours (whenever that is in your timezone) has been put into reading the game, there's just not many people around to interact with. Most of my time last night no-one was posting at all.
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On November 27 2012 11:45 Oatsmaster wrote: The last newbie mafia had 2 so 2 would make sense for this one. Im confused Munk-e? I hammered the vote! ! !
Quick question @Oatsmaster. What did you mean by "hammered the vote"?
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I'm still here.
I had a town read on Oats initially (I didn't dislike his early pressure on CC), but his posts have just kept making no damn sense - he keeps contradicting himself. Maybe he's mafia and thinks he can just post disjointed thoughts and get away with it.
Whether he's scum or not, there's at least one other elsewhere, and I keep talking myself out of scumreads on most everyone else. Gonna keep thinking about it. Anyone else here and want to have a chat?
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1) Wasn't Munk-E going to be lynched anyway at that point?
2) Lemme see... there was the claim that there wasn't a case to be made on CC (and then you made one anyway). Then there was this:
On November 26 2012 10:40 Oatsmaster wrote: I made that case so that you guys could see how bad of a case it was..
and yet I've seen no better cases from you since. Dammit, if you're town you need to at least try to convince the rest of us of your reads.
Then there was a vote for Kickstart, where you went from "KICKSTART IS SCUM" to unvoting him pretty quick.
You also went from thinking I was scummiest after the lynch to not pretty quick (after you'd pitched it to the other players and it wasn't clicking with them).
And lastly, even if there had been a night kill we would be at FIVE town and TWO scum, which would give us another lynch.
On November 27 2012 11:57 Oatsmaster wrote: also to everyone who said that I tunneled CC, You do not understand what tunneled MEANS. What does tunneled mean, then?
3) Make a more substantial case on Helo and I'll give you my thoughts on him and it.
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