You had town reads on both so you voted for the lesser townread?
Why didn't you switch to me or Djo?
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Clarity_nl
Netherlands6826 Posts
You had town reads on both so you voted for the lesser townread? Why didn't you switch to me or Djo? | ||
Clarity_nl
Netherlands6826 Posts
I'm sure most of us here have read the XXX analysis thread by Ver, and if you haven't I recommend it. In this, Ver explains how town could have had an easy scum lynch on day 1, Misder. Ver pointed out that apologizing a lot, and claiming to be new/not smart enough/not fast enough to keep up makes no sense as town. If you are town, you do not discredit yourself. You want your argument to matter and you want people to take you seriously. Cheese even made a post about it: On November 03 2012 11:44 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Here's a topic: I don't want anyone playing the noob card as a defense. Ever. You can make decent arguments / cases even if it's your first game. Don't attribute your actions to "I'm sorry, idk what I'm doing! Newbie town here! Man I suck at this game." <snip> Let's count how many times he either apologizes, claims to be new or claims to have no good input. + Show Spoiler [Giant spoiler.] + On November 03 2012 14:21 Obzy wrote: K - This is in response to debears post asking about me. I may screw up the formatting but hopefully not - Show nested quote + On November 03 2012 13:40 debears wrote: Obsy has been around the thread. What I have found is that he seems to be actively lurking. Notice above post. Asking a pretty much useless question. It's newbie town/scum tell, so it's a null tell Yeah, I've been trying to read and refresh the thread regularly, I think I've been away from it for maybe an hour total since game start. Show nested quote + On November 03 2012 13:40 debears wrote: He has a few one-liners like the above. Mostly, his posts do not take a strong stance and his opinions seem to be easily swayed. Again newbie town/scum tell. 1)I've typed out a few posts that were a bit longer, but after re-reading, it didn't look like they did anything to advance town interests and the only thing they did was look spammy and unhelpful, so I've mostly been deleting them. I am, as mentioned, not really certain whether or not I'm judging things properly and taking a concrete stance on something that turns out to be stupid feels sort of dumb. Show nested quote + On November 03 2012 13:40 debears wrote: I don't like this post. At all. Trying to come up with excuses to not be posting. Sure the thread is moving pretty decently (score one for town), but it's nothing huge and pretty easy to follow so far imo. No comment, it does move really fast. Show nested quote + On November 03 2012 13:40 debears wrote: Here he acts confused. He asks questions without answering them himself or even really attempting to answer them himself. I didn't really want to call you out directly. You responded really strongly to Alsn's red font, and it seemed counterproductive - but stifling discussion is a problem; given that you've been the primary generator of discussion. Show nested quote + On November 03 2012 13:40 debears wrote: Who have a tough time contributing early? Usually scum because 1) They are afraid to post and put themselves out there since they are guilty and know so 2) They know the players they are accusing are town and they can't actually find real evidence to use However, I admit this is also a newbie town trait. 2)I don't have a problem with posting, I don't want to post meaninglessly. Writing about things that are actually useful and will help everybody is difficult, because when I look at what I've drafted it looks moronic and doesn't help anybody. Answering being directly called out is a lot easier, since I don't have to cast about for what to say, I just have to explain how I'm playing. Show nested quote + On November 03 2012 13:40 debears wrote: Honestly, this post is just absolutely worthless. It has no actual input. Says nothing about the current happenings of the thread. I wanted the conversation to shift away from talking about Cheese using jokes or not. It was a meaningless thing to discuss. Pointing it out so early and then dwelling on it for so long meant that it isn't a good scumtell for Cheese, while also making him aware of the fact he was doing it (Assuming that it WAS a scumtell, it no longer is). That entire discussion was just a waste of time, so I would say that it makes sense that my post, pointing it out, was equally useless. I definitely have been reading the thread, but haven't done a very good job of blending in. That's not really the point, anyways. You haven't been blending in, because you've been actively advancing the interests of town. I'm not a good enough judge to know if you're doing so genuinely, but you're the most active player currently (IMHO). I haven't read past this post yet, but I'll go ahead and do so now. If I see something, I'll comment. On November 03 2012 15:03 Obzy wrote: Alright, I'll check it out when I get a chance. 3)Trying to read like four of the newbie guides and everyone's filters lol ._.; and hitting refresh on this tab occasionally so I don't miss stuff. I suppose since I'm here- @Rad I just finished reading through your filter. It's almost depressing - I really appreciate how you're encouraging - but I haven't seen any cases. MLG is a valid excuse IMHO, tomorrow I would also like to see some reads on players from you. I really want you to be town, but I don't know if there's anything backing up you being town any more than there is ME being town. ^^; I will be sure to take a look regarding dembearz, though - that filter is going to be sort of miserable to read haha :0 On November 03 2012 16:06 Obzy wrote: Hm. Okay. I've been looking at FoS the same way as a vote. Assuming people intend to vote the way they are suspicious, I didn't really think there was a difference; letting the mod keep track makes an amount of sense, though. @Cheese 4>:l The no newb cards comment seems specifically aimed at me. Not really a fan. I'm not wholly sure why he dropped his argument against debears so quickly - pointing out previous meta, etc, and then it just absolutely falls off the face of the planet. Why? (I disagree with this statement, by the way: Show nested quote + Again, another exact mistake I made last game. Feeling the need to tell people that you have been reading the thread. For the second part, he's assuring that we realize that he knows this game is important to him. As town, he wouldn't feel the need to tell us that the game is important. That sounds like the sort of thing I would do. Bringing up the not using newbness as an excuse without calling me out specifically (as the only player who was not participating in the previous game) and then 5)pointing out a scumtell based on inexperience looks like a trap. It may be valid, but combined with the earlier statement, there doesn't really seem to be an answer besides inexperienced town and scum, and you've already indicated that inexperienced town is unacceptable. Why wouldn't you just vote? FoS Mr. Cheese. @Djo Notes: ignores deb/Als argument, policy discussion, mechanics discussion, argument with Cheesecake. If I didn't dislike CC's argument, I'd be a little more doubtful, but... I do dislike it. I think part of the problem for Djo is I have a hard time reading some of his sentences, so it's a little harder to follow his exact train of thought lol. Given that I'm suspicious of CC, I don't have a real problem with Djo at this time. @debears [I seriously clicked your filter and cringed before realizing it's 4 pages, not 40.] (Also, @sylver..) However I may have mentioned FoS vs vote confusion at the top of this post that I wrote like 30 minutes ago, I really don't like the vote on debears at all. If I'm wrong, fucking bummer, but debears is driving conversation. His filter's not easy to read, but the content is useful to Me, at least. I wish I wasn't getting attacked har har, but the activeness in making me respond to stop lurking is a townie move IMHO. If he was mafia, he would've let me continue happily lurking and reading to my heart's content and then blasted me in a day, rather than trying to get me to start contributing early on. For god's sake, it had been less than 6 hours from the start of the game, you hadn't even appeared yet, there were people with only a few words and he writes up a post designed to get me to contribute? That definitely feels townie to me. I don't see how you could come to the opposite conclusion. Some (Maybe even a lot!) of the filter is pretty pointless and could've gone unsaid. The parts that DID go said are, I think, the best in the thread. If he didn't have quality bits in the filter along with the spam I'd think differently but the quality parts look solid. I definitely think he's town at the moment. You haven't interacted with anybody besides Rad and myself, and your first post comes in and blasts debears? @da0ud What the hell dude, get in here and post >_> 6)You can't do worse than me ffs I'm going to take a break now and probably sleep. If anybody has any questions, concerns, claims, or suspicions about me please say something because being called out is good for stopping lurking -_- 7)And when the thread is going fast with a focused discussion it's really hard to jump in. The above is all in page 1 of his filter. At this point I will skip a couple of posts, please looks at them yourselves, but you'll find one of these in almost every one of his posts. So let's look at some on page 3 (his last page) On November 06 2012 04:45 Obzy wrote: It does. 8)I have a problem with mafia, in that I'm bad at detecting liars lol. I like assuming that everybody is being honest and telling the truth, and in a proper game, that's not possible. Your responses to me are answering my questions, which just makes me wonder if I'm asking the right questions, or if you're innocent and it's just shining through or something lol. The way you reacted to Cheese's statement feels.. legitimate? Upon rereading. What do you think of Sylver? If you're still around. For that matter, what does everyone think of Sylver? On November 06 2012 11:15 Obzy wrote: Hm. 9)I think if you're banking on me upping my play and showing off hidden skills, you'll be disappointed. I was hoping to get NK'd because reading is more fun than playing IMO, having experienced it a bit, but didn't expect it because there's no reason to NK me yet. If I'm going to assume that Clarity is town, then that leaves Sylv as the only scum I feel relatively confident in voting. Me Rad Alsn dead-cc dead-db - Clar is tentative ^^ That would leave Djo, Sylv, and da0ud. Djo was going crazy attacking Clar and was waiting for DB's supposed case on Sylv - If I'm assuming Clar is town, it makes me wonder about that, I guess. I'd like to vote Sylv. Before Day1 post finished, I wanted to vote Clar - I feel like trusting his answer though if that makes sense. The fact that you and Alsn had town reads on him (iirc) implies that I was just outright wrong. I've sort of ignored da0ud. 10)I put a lot of time into reading the thread early on and kinda snapped and decided to try to worry about this game less, and he took awhile to start posting relative to the game's start. I've been largely trusting other peoples' opinions on him and not bothering looking critically. I have difficulty seeing nuances in da0ud/djo's typing styles[not that I'm a good judge anyways D: ] but Djo has been talking more often. Show nested quote + On November 06 2012 11:00 Rad wrote:You don't step on anyone's toes, but you need to start. I guess ##Vote Sylverfyre then. Is this really someone's attitude coming into a mafia game? Let's compare it to his pregame: On November 02 2012 10:06 Obzy wrote: /in I didn't want to in on the last one due to not being sure if I'd have enough time to be active, given that I'm normally only able to read for a couple hours throughout the day. But after the activity shown in the last game... I may have been setting the bar too high for myself. Here's to the game filling up fast >:0 On November 03 2012 09:36 Obzy wrote: /Yayy excitement and anticipation Hmmm... it seems not. He seemed genuinely excited to play, so why the change of heart? He's even claimed he doesn't want to play anymore a couple of times. Again, this is all very convenient, and the reason that I now believe Obzy is Mafia Not convinced? How about this: On November 03 2012 14:21 Obzy wrote: <snip> I definitely have been reading the thread, but haven't done a very good job of blending in. That's not really the point, anyways. You haven't been blending in, because you've been actively advancing the interests of town. I'm not a good enough judge to know if you're doing so genuinely, but you're the most active player currently (IMHO). I haven't read past this post yet, but I'll go ahead and do so now. If I see something, I'll comment. Why would Obzy care about blending in if he was town? He wouldn't. He also made a couple of posts stating that he was lurking, like X Y and Z. Whereas I did not consider myself to be lurking, he did yet didn't change his posting behaviour: On November 03 2012 15:16 Obzy wrote: @Alsn There really hasn't been enough said. His entire contribution to the thread was a quick jab at debears, talking for 40 minutes past when he said he was going to bed, and leaving. I'll have to wait until tomorrow before I have any idea. @Clarity Is lurking a bit, responding when relevant. Similar to Rad. Similar to myself but better, not like that's difficult :[. Also was watching MLG; hopefully tomorrow he has reads on people, rather than lurking and commenting when relevant to try to move discussion along. On November 03 2012 16:06 Obzy wrote: <snip> I'm going to take a break now and probably sleep. If anybody has any questions, concerns, claims, or suspicions about me please say something because being called out is good for stopping lurking -_- And when the thread is going fast with a focused discussion it's really hard to jump in. My final point is this post: On November 05 2012 09:35 Obzy wrote: <snip> I think that your point here is ridiculous. Giving up is incredibly anti-town, and poor behavior. Up until right now, I have been stressed out and sort of unhappy about how much time this takes, but I won't ask for a replacement, I won't get modkilled, and I won't try to get myself mislynched just to avoid playing. Giving up, if you were town, is incredibly foul. You're not though, so it's okay. In this post he proclaims he's close to giving up, he barely cares. He implies he won't be posting as much and he hasn't. Looking at a singular post of his, it seems reasonable. He's not too confident but he's trying, right? But when you look at the bigger picture. When you look at the fact that there were so many "newb claims" that I didn't even list them all, when you compare his behaviour in the pregame to his behaviour now, I find it hard to believe he isn't just subtly playing the newb card. Obzy is Mafia. | ||
Clarity_nl
Netherlands6826 Posts
On November 07 2012 06:48 Obzy wrote: Hmmm. I'm sort of glad you're posting this. How am I supposed to take this other than you're glad it was me who made a case on you, because right now I'm probably the least credible active player. Your whole "I feel defeated but I will not be defeated!" attitude makes no sense to me. | ||
Clarity_nl
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On November 07 2012 07:15 Obzy wrote: Show nested quote + On November 07 2012 07:03 Clarity_nl wrote: On November 07 2012 06:48 Obzy wrote: Hmmm. I'm sort of glad you're posting this. How am I supposed to take this other than you're glad it was me who made a case on you, because right now I'm probably the least credible active player. Your whole "I feel defeated but I will not be defeated!" attitude makes no sense to me. I'm glad you are posting a case on me, specifically. Heh. Being called out in general gives a clear indication that my posting will be listened to when I respond, but getting called out by you makes my trust of Djo's JK claim increase, since he was been beating his head against you for hours this morning. You posting a case that I know is false makes me believe more in his case, which helps me trust his claim and innocence. A team composed of him and Sylver was only something I mused about if you were town. Maybe you're town and your case against me is just flat-out incorrect, you're just misguided. That's possible. But I think you think that too; you didn't vote. You clearly say "Obzy is Mafia" in fancy red highlighting and you do not vote. >_> ##Vote Obzy There are still 27 hours until lynch, but fine, there you go. If my case is incorrect, you should be able to point out why. | ||
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Clarity_nl
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+ Show Spoiler + On November 06 2012 03:00 Clarity_nl wrote: Show nested quote + On November 06 2012 02:32 Djodref wrote: @ Clarity Could you at least tell me when you asked marv your question ? I'm only asking for when right now ^^ Date: 11/5/12 2:48 Show nested quote + On November 06 2012 02:29 Obzy wrote: On November 06 2012 02:13 Clarity_nl wrote: @ Obzy The reason I asked marv before Cheese claiming was because I noticed what Cheese did. The OP Townie does not match with the PM townie. The PM townie flavor is in every PM. How do you conclude from this that I am blue or scum? Because whether or not the text matches in the OP compared to the PM doesn't matter. I'm certain that every single person noticed this, but nobody else (has mentioned) PM'd Marv specifically asking if the VT flavor text meant VT. It seemed fairly self-explanatory. And - I was under the impression that Cheese's claim was technically when he first put Regular Fapper at the end of his post; to him [as it turned out], that was a claim to all other VTs to take notice of that would not be recognized by blue or mafia. I don't agree that Cheese's actual claim was later- it was clear to him from the beginning. That's not what I asked. I asked if everyone was aware of the VT flavor. If I'm VT -> I want to make sure if I should claim (when the time comes) Townie or Regular Fapper, and I wonder if scum/blue knows flavour. If I'm Blue -> I want to know if scum knows VT flavor, and if VT knows the rest knows flavour. If I'm Scum -> I want to know if blues know flavor, and if VT know the rest knows flavour. Show nested quote + On November 06 2012 02:29 Obzy wrote: Don't try to convince me that you aren't scum, convince me(and everybody else) who is. Easy for you to say, there are only so many hours in a day and I spent all of mine defending myself, and still am. I was hoping today would be calmer because it's the nightcycle, but it seems people would rather push and push and push rather than collect their thoughts. Show nested quote + On November 06 2012 02:43 Djodref wrote: On November 06 2012 02:01 Clarity_nl wrote: On November 06 2012 02:00 Djodref wrote: On November 06 2012 01:52 Clarity_nl wrote: No, I tried to stop him from saying that because if he did, as town, it would be moronic. And as you pointed out, I was starting to doubt my case on debears. Do you really not see a scum motive for Cheese pointing me out as "confirmed town" Again, you seem to think I had special information after marv posted that everyone knows VT flavor, but I didn't, you were just as informed as I was. We all voted for Cheese. Town Clarity has forgot Cheese for a while No, I was just kinda busy answering 1001 questions from you and debears. I was busy defending myself. @ Clarity Are you trying to deny your responsibility in the lynch ? Daoud did not vote for Cheese because he really believed that debears was scum... I have explained my reasons for lynching Cheese. I was being stupid but at least it makes some sense. I don't understand how you could not recognize that he was town and genuinely believing in the power of the VT flavor. How could you believe he was scum ? The only reason I see is that you were mafia and too happy to see a possibility to escape your lynch to think straight. I was already safe from lynching before I switched. @ Clarity Ok, that's cool, if you were safe when you switched, it's sure that your vote did not mean anything. It does mean something, but what it meant (in my eyes) was: "I'm having doubts about debears being scum, especially with the way he's reacting to all of this" Cheese looked scummiest to me at that point, and YES, it made it so that I didn't get lynched. Surprise, a 100% wrong lynch looked worse to me than the person who looked scummiest to me. (See, I can do sarcasm as well) My ambiguity is because the actual PM has quotes by marv, and will reveal my role. | ||
Clarity_nl
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How do you feel about Obzy's comments specifically addressed to me so far. | ||
Clarity_nl
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I'm being vague, and continue being vague, because it might entice scum to NK me, if I ever get out of your 24/7 scope. Claiming does nothing for me. | ||
Clarity_nl
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Clarity_nl
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Do you believe his behavior in his last couple of posts is consistent with his behavior in the rest of the game Actually I'd like Alsn to answer this too. | ||
Clarity_nl
Netherlands6826 Posts
On November 07 2012 08:51 Djodref wrote: Show nested quote + On November 07 2012 08:46 Clarity_nl wrote: What the fuck, you've been saying I'm blue or scum for the last 30 hours. I'm being vague, and continue being vague, because it might entice scum to NK me, if I ever get out of your 24/7 scope. Claiming does nothing for me. That's why I want to see you dead. Some things point in direction that you are not blue, some things point in direction that you are not VT. Conclusion -> you are scum You've wanted me dead for the last 48 hours. Somehow your reasons keep changing but the outcome does not. I urge you to step back, take a break, and come back with fresh eyes. Then re-read. | ||
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I don't have a claim that would make me look more like town, isn't that obvious from the fact that I haven't claimed? | ||
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You told people last night that if I claimed today it would be fake. You are telling people today that any last minutes claims by me will be fake. You are telling me to claim so you can attack me. You KNOW there is a hole in my argument yet you CANNOT FIND IT. | ||
Clarity_nl
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Are you not going to address any of the contradictions I just pointed out? | ||
Clarity_nl
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This doesn't mean his argument is completely bogus. When I say "his reaction" I was talking about Obzy, since Djo asked me. | ||
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I honestly do not know. Sylver... maybe? Y u no address contradictions | ||
Clarity_nl
Netherlands6826 Posts
These would be the contradictions: On November 07 2012 09:21 Clarity_nl wrote: You keep telling me to go scumhunt, and then you continuously assault me. You told people last night that if I claimed today it would be fake. You are telling people today that any last minutes claims by me will be fake. You are telling me to claim so you can attack me. You KNOW there is a hole in my argument yet you CANNOT FIND IT. | ||
Clarity_nl
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Oh I'm confusing myself now, I asked you earlier if obzy contradicted himself. I mean his behavior. Suddenly he is giving me advice and acting like an analytical genius. | ||
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