That's fine. I just want content and input on big cases from anyone. You seem to be skipping out on sections of the thread which are vital to the game
Newbie Mini Mafia XXIX - Page 5
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debears
United States2516 Posts
That's fine. I just want content and input on big cases from anyone. You seem to be skipping out on sections of the thread which are vital to the game | ||
debears
United States2516 Posts
Town/Scum reads On October 26 2012 08:34 Inigmaticalism wrote: Right now I dont have any scum reads, only town reads which Ive already said in earlier posts. So I would lynch one of the lurkers probably. Also, Djo you seem to be the only one really going after me, so while your asking everyone what they think of me, you should answer your own question. what you you think of me? -Should be back to post something in around 6-7 hours. Posts like this alarm me. Scum usually have a harder time making scumreads since they can't be. Also, he says he would rather lynch a lurker when there is plenty of time to keep scumhunting. I don't get why he would be ready to say that already. Speading Suspicion + Show Spoiler + On October 26 2012 16:17 Inigmaticalism wrote: Alright here we go. 1. I deny nothing about not scum hunting. I have only had time to read the thread, and have found town looking players: debears, rad, djo(tho im not sure anymore, more on that later). As I said, I will have time in a few days to do proper scum hunting. If you feel that is not a risk worth taking, so be it. Ill give my scum hunting/reading in my next post. -And, if your going to pull out reasons to lynch me based not on what I have done, but what I havent done, then perhaps you should also look at Oats and Imcasey who havent scumhunted OR contributed (or at least tried) Or posted at all. 2. Ha I am anything BUT emotionally detached from this game. In fact, Ive been getting so emotional I dont think I can or should play mafia games and just go back to watching/reading them. All the logical things I want to say and rules I want to follow fly out the window, and its dumb. Here is Mr cheesecake calling me out on it: I actually almost rage-quit and threw out on-purpose made-up scumslips and such, so I just got to working on homework and stepped away. Im not sure why you said im emotionally detached. Very odd. But you are right about spectating. In the particular post you quoted of mine, I was attempting to get Rad and Debears to drop their argument because it had shown me they were town and should therefore work together. Course they ignored me and kept on arguing policies and confidences and whatnot. So your accusation is false, unless you leave off the word 'emotional'. 3. Gaining town credit. I am going to split this definition so I can understand what you mean. I put that there originally to be a flag that I was town, for ppl to pick up on. Then cause no one got it or was simply silent about it, I used it as a defense, and then it became a WIFOM, or so im told. I understand a little better how WIFOM works cause I didnt know before (ironically it was you Djo who told me so) but Im probably still going to mess that up again in the future. So ya I used a WIFOM argument. I originally wanted (before the wifom) to gain town 'status' by showing I was town. Now town credit would certainly come by that. I see town credit as town standing, as in how much people listen to you. I actually think since you are the first one to bring this up you are a lot more interested in it. You can believe I was trying to get town credit all you want, but what would I use it for? What cases do I have to push? None. Even if I did get town credit, it would have been of no use to me, and it still isnt of any use to me now. And to put it out there in case I wasnt clear, I am a Vanilla Townie. "Ya, sure, everyones a town, etc". I know I wouldnt believe the claim I just made up front either. Im just letting you know Im not gonna come out with some crazy blue claim or cry for medic support later on. No tricks here. Last, I found a some fun information on Djo: Which means that Djo is voting because he thinks I am a semi-lurker, not because I am scum. He does however clarify better here: So then he does say he thinks I am scum. So all I really want you to clarify Djo is whether you think I am actually scum, or am just the scummiest looking semi-lurker. If its the latter, based on what youve said at the beginning of the game that doesnt fit you. I would want to have more solid proof of scum. Although it is day 1 so.... I would label Djo as like 70% town. Hes been consistent and contributing. I think hes gone after me too long to be mafia. He has talked an awful lot though. Its probably more likely, with all his questions and style of scumhunting, thats hes a vigi or SK or something like that, seeing who he can get lynched (who he thinks is scum if hes vigi, etc), and then who he cant hes found his night targets. Just a thought. Fun facts: -Djo labeled me and Dandel as scumteam in pre-game *Personally with all his questions I think Djo is trying to get all his friends to tell him about me cause he secretly wants to date me So Inig says Djo is 70% town, but in the same sentence Inig brings up a possible SK or vig read, stating that Djo thinks Djo is just "seeing who he can get lynched". First, vigs don't do that, nor any townie for that matter. Scum do that. How does he give a town read, then a vig or SK read based on this information? Next, he moves onto Cheesecake On October 26 2012 16:35 Inigmaticalism wrote: Also, I now have some suspicion on Cheesecake. I like pretty much every post hes given actually, except this one: Oh ya and look cheese also calls me out about being emotional and freaking out in thread. His arguments good too, although I wish he put in a 'outside mafia influences' reason as well, but thats fine. I actually have found cheese to be more likely town than I said djo was, so this is why I called this out. -This point is not doing anything other than saying he read it. Like my earlier posts, it doesnt really contribute at all, doesnt really push me either except in the most indirect of ways. -The 'Im beginning to get suspicious of" me. Ive re-read my own filter. Cheese you should already be suspicious of me, not beginning to be. Ive barely been pro-town at all. -While those points are fun and are probably included in numerous posts in this game, I call it out because it seems like Cheese is simply trying to look good by joining a case that had potential to go somewhere (and so far has). I think what Im trying to say is that I read it and then after re-reading it I realized it had 0 content, but it looked like it did. No treally a scum-tell, but I guess I saw it because it seemed different than his other posts. A pretty inconclusive post. Spreads some seeds of suspicion without making a real read. Next, is a suspicion corral post from inig + Show Spoiler + On October 26 2012 18:22 Inigmaticalism wrote: If I couldnt lynch any lurkers I really wouldnt want to lynch, but we have to. -Asln has posts (if im right) 3 posts so far. Almost just says 'Im here', but at least he contributes something (FOS at you mostly). I would want to vote for him later simply because he actually said something. -Sylvers interesting because he has tried to be helpful in his own way (role-hunting, player list repost), but once we made him clarify what he was doing hes been silent. Discouraged townie or having a hard time finding fact stuff to post? Really not sure. -Roco has 2 posts and says nothing. Yeah, policy stuff, but really policy stuff can be said at one time and then the player can vote however they really want to vote later. Once again, maybe townie shut down once he voiced his opinion? Cept hes scummier to me since he doesnt say anything. Roco and Asln, post a few more posts! They can be real simple, just give 1 or a few scum-reads and a few reasons/facts to back them up. Its ok if they rip you apart, they did me, its about getting some more info/different insight out there for town. -Dandel may be my biggest strong scum read. Its funny, most people go after those who post lots and those who post little, not those who post a decent amount(cheesecake, dandel) or not at all(oats, imcasey). Hes been fairly active, pushing different discussions here and there, nothing too major, thats what Ive been doing. Then he takes up a case against Roco, and not only is Roco probably the easiest target to target, but he doesnt even get real serious about it. He FOS to make it LOOk strong, but explains why hes being soft about it here: He also says how hes not going to let Roco slide, and thats exactly what hes done. Not one mention of Roco in the few posts hes made after that. And he seems to talk to all the semi-lurkers and Djo. Not sure if thats anything important, but Ill keep it in mind. THEN he tries to start EVEN MORE policy discussion, again, in my own words, "stupid (because I was frustrated) and pointless." Contributing to killing time rather than scum-hunting. No attempt to explain why not either, just getting everyones policy straight is "important": Like I said, because you can simply change your stance and have wonderful excuses like "of course Id lynch scum over my policy, duh" or whatever, its wasted time. Not only does it look like its a pro-town move, but I would think mafia would benefit more from town knowing how people were going to vote. Swing lynches easier. (And that BETTER NOT be wifom. Cause I think its a darn good idea). - I am most willing to Vote for Dandel, and if I have any time for more scumhunting, it will be on you dan. Please feel free to reply to this so I can think about what to do before lynch-time. -Mr. CC I like his style a lot, and have thought he was very townie. However, I need to actually read what hes said just like I just did to dandel to see if its content or fluff, but I REALLY need to sleep, so I cant. One of you lurkers (or someone), take up this job while Im lurking between now and lynch-time. Otherwise Ill get to it Day2 if Im still alive. The only thing against him is the post I made a few posts up about him giving me a seriously stern 'look', where its almost like he defends and attacks me at the same time. So....interesting. -Da0ud is somewhere among my roco dandel alsn (discounting no posters) list, but I honestly have no idea what hes said, and without knowing this knowledge I would be uncomfortable voting for him right now. -And that leaves the rest of you Ive made the risky leap of faith to label as townies for now: Djo, rad, debears, and Mr CC depending on what he says and when I read all his stuff. [red]I am very hesitant to do this, but I think I will have plenty of time to change my vote. I would vote for you right now Dandel, and will do so at the end of the day if you fail to answer any of my questions, but while we wait for your responses I want to poke for more information. ##Vote: imcasey Tell me why I should not vote for you. Notice the intro, puts suspicion on Alsn, Sylvers, Roco, and Dandel. What is the point of that??? He only pursues Dandel. Oh, and then after making a case on dandel, and saying dandel is the scummiest so far, he votes imcasey, who he failed to mention in the intro........Very very odd. Also, if he wants dandel to truly answer his questions, why wouldn't he just vote dandel, who hasn't been under pressure up to this point. Most of all, is his "I would vote you right now" hidden at the bottom of a long post right before a vote on another player? It seems like he is trying to get his case ignored so he doesn't have to explain/argue it to Dandel. A Possible Scumslip On October 26 2012 16:43 Inigmaticalism wrote: Oh ok ya, so then your 3rd argument is correct. My thoughts were : [red]"If I was not able to find or given strong scum reads, next best thing is try to build up the confirmed town." I thought that was good, is it bad? Or just how I went about trying? Who is the confirmed town? As I see it, not a single one of us is. This statement heavily implies that he knows who the townies are, "the confirmed town". Ok....for some reason my post refused to format red and double spaced half the damn thing. I did what I could to edit it lol. FOS Inig | ||
debears
United States2516 Posts
On October 27 2012 01:34 kushm4sta wrote: @debears Djo does look scummy just from my first read through. I need to consider his case in more depth (planning on doing that after d1). I'm not sure he is a viable d1 lynch though. This is because 1 he is active, 2 he is trying to change his meta. There is a lot of uncertainty regarding him. @djodref I didn't ask you for town reads. I asked you for scum reads. You soft defend sylver in the wishy washiest way possible ("he had some nice reactions") then you give him as your biggest scumread. Stop overdefending yourself. Start being helpful. Kush I haven't looked at your Dauod case yet. I am still going to consider Djo for the fact that I see the inference that he has extra information and that he is capable of roleplaying very well (the noobie card in his two games). I think he's fully capable of acting. However, I do see your point on his activity. If he is scum, it will most likely show day 2. What do you think of my thoughts on Inig? @Djo The post about your defense I mentioned earlier should be coming here in a while | ||
debears
United States2516 Posts
About the previous case. I believe this was the most important part and you didn't really address it "Feeling townie vibes from someone doesn't mean I consider him as town". What does this mean??????? So I'm townie to you but not at the same time? This is a weak statement that is a contradiction in a mafia-oriented way to his play. By saying that I have townie vibes but am not town is keeping a door open for suddenly accusing me later. Who wants to keep an open door for sudden accusation on any person in the game? Mafia." Also, why were you so adamant to say that you didn't think I was town, when you have recently stated that you pretty much did ("townie vibes") and most definitely acted like it? If you were town, I feel that you would stick by your read instead of flip flopping when someone gets on you about it | ||
debears
United States2516 Posts
I'm gonna lay down my vote right now in case i don't get back in time ##Vote Inig For the reasons i posted in my case on him. Right now, i am willing to keep djo around based on his activity. If he is scum it will show Hopefully ill be back before the lynch | ||
debears
United States2516 Posts
Something I want to comment on with Inig's vote On October 27 2012 05:50 Rad wrote: Inig, you not voting da0uds is super interesting to me. I feel like your safest vote to stay alive is da0uds. If you want to stay alive, you vote him. Alternatively though, you may know that and realize if you vote da0uds you look bad. Here are some interesting things about Inig: 1. He claimed vanilla townie in the past. 2. He was forced to make a vote here and he did not choose da0uds. Instead he chose Dan. Dan currently has no chance of being lynched today unless something crazy comes up, so the vote on Dan was worthless. 3. If he is indeed vanilla townie, and he does not quite trust his current reads on da0ud and dan, it would be the best town play to a) keep himself alive if possible (change vote from imcasey) and b) let others who are more well informed make the more educated vote. Voting for da0uds when he's really uncertain is just taking a chance, and da0uds is currently in second place to be lynched today, so there's a lot of pressure on Inig's vote (if he's town). I had a null read on him before but it was extremely confusing one way or the other. With this I'm leaning townie for Inig. Anyone want to jump in and help analyze his decision here? I'm open to whatever thoughts people have and please help me if I'm making a WIFOM argument here. His vote on Dandel MAKES NO SENSE AS TOWN 1) The only person a townie knows is town is themself. Thus, if Inig is town, he could not know if Dauod is town. 2) A townie's job is to survive in a lynch when that townie does not know the other person is town 3) Since Inig clearly could not know if Dauod is town if Inig is town, then why would Inig not fight to survive. Townies should fight when they are about to be lynched, even if that means voting for an opponent who they are not sure about when the vote is close. They know that, if they can avoid being lynched, that is necessarily one more townie staying alive. Inig is wasting a vote on someone who is not getting lynched today unless something drastic happens. When someone does something that makes no sense as town, they are almost certainly scum, regardless of how much sense that action makes as scum. | ||
debears
United States2516 Posts
On October 27 2012 00:30 kushm4sta wrote: Hi guys I read the thread (not super close towards the end though because I wanted to finish). I think we should lynch Daoud. He is posting just enough to be considered not a lurker. This level of activity is exactly what you want to lynch d1. He catches Djo in the classic "scumslip," which does not always indicate scum, but that's not important. "Why did you call me town djo?" Then he says oh there might be a sk I guess my point is invalid. Makes no sense. Bringing it up in the first place is a null tell, because it's an easy catch. But dropping it for such a stupid reason, that is scummy. This is his most significant post so far: So he gives off some town reads. Djo is 90% town... what the fuck. I don't see how you can think that after playing last game with him. Asking open questions makes him 90% town? ok This is such a weird time to talk about lurkers, unless he is giving that as his reason for voting Ini, but Ini isn't even close to the biggest lurker. So why is he voting for ini? 2 words: "Blending in." Sick case bro. ##vote da0ud I need some clarity on this case. It's based off 1) He's a Semi-lurker 2) He is giving off pretty much only town reads (including the percentage ones) 3) Generally blending into the thread 4) A difference in posting styles in his meta on point 4) do you have specific posts that illustrate the difference? Also, I'd say that Inig has done similarly in points 1-3 | ||
debears
United States2516 Posts
I see what you mean that it's possible. Still, I would think that your first instinct, as any alignment, is to survive. And the fact that he said he wanted to lynch Dandel earlier but then parked his voted on imcasey at the end of his own dandel case just isn't right. | ||
debears
United States2516 Posts
On October 27 2012 07:35 kushm4sta wrote: @debears I did post quotes from daoud last game. The case isn't Omg great but there's not a lot to go off of and I think he is out best option. Inig has contributed wayyy more. This is clear by sumply comparing their filters. I don't get your point about the survival instinct. Scum have a stronger survival instinct than town. So unless daoud is scum, it seems like it makes more sense for him to vote daoud if he's scum. Sure inig has posted more. But what about his content? Not much at all And my argument is that a townie would almost necessarily vote to survive to help the town if they don't know the other candidates alignment. We can argue this later when we are both out of the game if you don't see it. | ||
debears
United States2516 Posts
Wth? You now find inig scummy again? | ||
debears
United States2516 Posts
On October 27 2012 07:57 Djodref wrote: I'm not really comfortable with any of the lynches... I'll say Ini right now because of the emotional part. He has been saying and now "I don't mind to be lynched" it doesn't add up... Rad this is what I'm talking about | ||
debears
United States2516 Posts
On October 27 2012 08:20 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Okay I just got back, and will be here pre and post lynch. My thoughts on the current state of affairs. It seems the lynch is in favor of Inig, but Da0ud following close behind. My vote on Djo is obviously not doing any good. I still consider him suspicious, and he is by no means off the hook. My efforts right now are better spent deciding who is a better lynch candidate: Da0ud or Inig. On Inig: Honestly, I have no idea why people suddenly started piling on top of him. I found him -slightly- suspicious after his emotional outburst and semi-lurking. However, since then he has been asking questions (to myself included) and improving his post count. The cases against him are weak, imo. I've read through them I don't see much of a reason to lynch him. His vote on Imcasey I don't view as scum-intentioned; it was an attempt to draw out the lurker. I don't think scum would be that bold, because a vote like that would (and surely did) draw attention. That is not at all blending in. His recent vote on Dandel, however, doesn't make sense from any role viewpoint I think, so I don't know what to think about that. I'll be reading more into his posts about Dandel later. On Da0ud: I skimmed through the cases concerning him, and by my own standards think he is more scummy-looking than Inig. In particular, this post about the modkill. We all saw the modkill. This isn't contributing anything. Why talk about it? A townie died, there's nothing we can do about it, especially since he basically suicided. This is a useless topic. Then, there is the entire percentage-based town read on Djo. I believe Kush mentioned this. 90% town on the first day? I most surely don't see it that way, and a 90% town read based on little concrete evidence? I don't get it. In addition, he's a semi-lurker / blending in. There is also an entire meta-arguement against him as well. I cannot address this as I know nothing of his previous game meta. This being said, I find Da0ud to be much more scummier than Inig. ##Vote: Da0ud I apologize for not being here sooner and for this post being somewhat rushed; I had a personal matter to attend to that required my immediate assistance. Really? The cases against inig are bad? When have you even addressed the inig cases? And how are the cases weak when you're accusing dauod of the same? | ||
debears
United States2516 Posts
On inig http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=16694076 | ||
debears
United States2516 Posts
And the same points on inig and dauod. 1) semi lurker 2) town reads/ percent town reads 3) generally blending in Give me | ||
debears
United States2516 Posts
He also called djo town while also calling him sk. Voting imcasy for no reason at the end of a case on dandel. How much does there have to be for you to see it? You even called your case not that strong | ||
debears
United States2516 Posts
Reread that statement inig made. Notice how he says djo is more likelh sk? Where does that clme from? | ||
debears
United States2516 Posts
We lynch the fucking jailkeeper, and all I see is "he should of claimed" and "hrm". What the hell? This isn't suspicious as hell. Inig was at the top of the vote column and then suddenly this dauod lynch gains momentum for reasons that differed slightly from Inig's case? Not only that, he wasn't there to defend himself and NO ONE ELSE WAS DEFENDING HIM FFS. How is that not a sign of town???? WHY THE FUCK WOULD MAFIA BUS SOMEONE LIKE HIM WHEN INIG WAS THE LEADING VOTE GETTER. Is it not telling how suddenly momentum on Dauod came about? Inig comes in and says some stuff and everyone goes "oh he's noob town obviously". Just awesome. double FOS Inig I'm going to fucking cool off so I don't shoot myself. I'll look over the thead and figure this out FOS anyone who voted for Inig | ||
debears
United States2516 Posts
If you want a meta read on me, do it yourself......... You were in both of my last two games, unlike anyone else here. Vote analysis coming up soon | ||
debears
United States2516 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + Djo 2. CC 6. Alsn ----UV 10 Inig 1. Djo---- UV 9 4. Dandel 7. Dau0d 12. Me 13. Rad ----UV 17 Dau0d 8. Kush 11. Alsn 16. Sylverfyre 19. Cheesecake 20. Rad 22. Inig 23. Djo Roco69 5. Sylverfyre imcasey 3, Inig Dandel 15. Inig ----UV 21 The above chart has numbers to indicate the order of vote/uv actions The most important votes, in my opinion, are numbers 8, 9, 15, 16, and 19 8 - kush comes in as replacement. Makes only one read despite being a replacement and sticks with it (I feel that replacements as town would post thoughts on more than 1 player. They have a lot more leniency since they have an outside perspective and they have to catch up) 9 - Djo unvotes Inig, who was leading the vote by 3-1 until the unvote. This was the start of the swing to Dau0d. Also, Djo flip flopped from Inig = scummy, then town, then suspicious 15 - Inig's vote on Dandel. It was his second vote parked on someone uselessly. It made no sense from a town perspective 16 - Sylver votes Dau0d. until this vote, Inig was leading voting 4-2. This vote put the swing in reach 19 - CheeseCake votes Dau0d. This vote made the lynch count 4-3, making Dau0d the leading vote getter Right now, these are the most suspicious votes I will pursue. | ||
debears
United States2516 Posts
Seeing as you came in as a replacement. Did you have any other reads besides Dau0d? | ||
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