Mark me as /obs for now, but I might in later, depending on various undisclosable circumstances.
Newbie Mini Mafia XXIX
Forum Index > TL Mafia |
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
Mark me as /obs for now, but I might in later, depending on various undisclosable circumstances. | ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
Confirmed. | ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
So inconsitent.... Scum imo. | ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
Probably. | ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
| ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
/in | ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
I also know next to nothing about street fighter. Fighting games are kinda for wussies. Or black people. Sadly, I don't qualify for either category. | ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
On October 23 2012 12:33 debears wrote: Nah that'd be wayyyy to ez. Anyways. I'm the logical choice for SK, with this being my last newbie. Thrawn would definitely pass on the torch of last newbie game as SK since it's the most fun :D It's my last newbie too. Tho, I don't really want to be SK, so go on ahead. | ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
| ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
Should be the same for you, if you're in France, no? Better than pretty much ANY deadline I had in mafia so far :/ Staying up 'til 4 AM can get tiring. I usually stay up until ~2 AM, so this is much better for me. I threatened thrawn to do unspeakable things to him if he makes the deadline any later. | ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
I played in 3 games so far, all newbies. Got carried by Hapa in the first one (check out his coaching, he's boss), played a really bad scumgame the second time, and replaced into XXVII where we lost by kind-of-mislynching thrawn. Thanks to XXVII I am now left with a severe trauma concerning lurkers. Cue policy discussion: Don't lurk. Period. I shall not be afraid to lynch you if you do. Seriously, don't lurk. I will be around for deadlines, but not for long after that, they are at 2 AM for me, after all. Depending on how the deadlines fall, I might miss a single one next week, my mother has her birthday then.. But other than that I'll be there. | ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
On October 25 2012 09:16 Rad wrote: oh, re-reading #2 question, I've never /obs'd, not even sure what that gets you other than just reading the thread. All I did was open the last newbie thread and get hooked. You get to gobble up the insights into things, from people that are better at mafia than you are. Or something. Why it's relevant for the thread to know how many games you've obs'd, I don't know. It doesn't really matter imo. | ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
| ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
On October 25 2012 09:29 debears wrote: Dandel do you agree with the noobie-card policy? I don't think it's bad to point out it's your first game at the beginning, but not as a substitute for a real defense. Or scumhunting. Which I suppose is what you were getting at. So I'd say I agree, yes. If you're new, ask Hapa what to do, instead of excusing with the newbie card. You shouldn't ask Jingle though. | ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
| ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
On October 25 2012 10:02 Inigmaticalism wrote: For lurking I think it seems even more of an issue in Newbie games than regular games because too many lurkers results in mafia wins most of the time in the Newbie games I looked at. That said, if we get any confirmed mafia I'll always vote confirmed mafias over suspicious lurkers. Btw Im a noob ... That goes without saying. Having a confirmed scum can be hard though.. And is next to impossible day 1 (since no possible DT checks) unless there is a serious slip. That is why policy lynches day 1 can end up being a necessity. That said, I'm going to sleep. See you in a few hours. | ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
To start off On October 25 2012 18:40 Djodref wrote: Regarding Roco, I understand your hunch but he reminds me your first weird posts last game. He is suspicious but he doesn't deserve red bold font yet imo ^^ I kind of disagree. Right now, Roco looks a bit suspicious to me. On October 25 2012 16:21 Roco69 wrote: 3/ what about killing guys who speak too much, can it be a strategie ? just to think out of the box On October 25 2012 17:57 Roco69 wrote: @djodref To keep it simple, "lurker policy on D1" seems to be a well known and basic strategy so I will do the exact opposite,=>so I will never be suspected. Those statements, they imply that he wants to lynch people that are "too active". That's nonsense. He doesn't want to follow lurker policy, so he doesn't seem suspicious. Nonsense too. @Roco: Are you planning to lurk? (by your posts, it doesn't look like you plan on being active) Care to explain to me how (probably) lurking yourself and lynching the most active players will help you find scum? Also, answer Djo's questions pls. (especially the second one) Until he manages to clarify that: ##FoS Roco I know it's possible he's just... well, a noob, that's why I didn't straight up vote for him. In my first game, I suggested a No-lynch day1 (though I'd like to think that I was more logical about it) But remember that we talked about playing the "newbie-card" in the beginning? Same goes for other people. I get a scummy feel off Roco, and I'm not going to ignore it because it's his first game. | ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
On October 25 2012 18:30 da0ud wrote: How would you already I am town ? From you role and a first early read ? Please explain this statement. Why would he 'know' you to be town from his role?? | ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
On October 25 2012 20:10 Alsn wrote: Hey everyone, I can see the thirteenth player must have confirmed. Will start reading the thread soon but would just like to start off with some information: I'm Alsn and I've played in two mafias here on TL as well as a bunch of times using the SC2 custom map. My filters for those games can be found here(first game) and here(second game). I was an active observer in XXVII and the obs QT for that can be found here. With that out of the way, gl hf! Methinks you wanted to link this game: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=361579 instead of XVIII twice. Now what do you think about: Lurker policy Other policy Your thoughts on the developments in this thread so far Not only you, but other people should address those 3 things too. Talking about poilcy is not exciting, I know, but we don't have much else to talk about right now, and I'd really prefer everyone to take a definite stance on things earlier instead of later. | ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
On October 25 2012 22:10 sylverfyre wrote: @ Dandel Ion - you've basically said something anti-policy and pro-policy at the same time. What? How exactly does opposing Lynch a Lurker policy give off a town read? For me it gives off a 0.1% scum read to oppose a reasonable, but not infallible, Day 1 strategy. And if we get to the end of the day and there are still people who have only made the minimal of posts despite people accusing them (example: Roco if we were close to lynch time), then I think that's a perfectly solid lynch candidate. I don't really understand this post. Please clarify how I am anti and pro policy at the same time. I don't see it. | ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
On October 25 2012 22:43 Djodref wrote: As for now, the only guy I would like to lynch right now is Inig. On what do you base that? All I see is he made no contributions. So did other people. Some didn't even post yet. If it's what he said, why do you see him as scummier than Roco? Because I don't, so I'd like to know where this is coming from. | ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
On October 25 2012 22:48 Dandel Ion wrote: On what do you base that? All I see is he made no contributions. So did other people. Some didn't even post yet. If it's what he said, why do you see him as scummier than Roco? Because I don't, so I'd like to know where this is coming from. EBWOP: The "I don't" in the last line refers to him saying Ingi is scummier than Roco. I think it's the other way around. | ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
On October 25 2012 22:52 Djodref wrote: @Cheese Calling daoud town was a slip, I've already explained it. Regarding you and your "serious policy lynching", I have asked you a question and your answer satisfied me. I don't think you are 100% for a policy lynch anymore. I misinterpreted your post. Regarding my question "are you mafia?", this is a very uncomfortable question to ask to a mafia player, believe me or not. They have to lie to answer such a question and this is the best way to pressure them imo. So I want to see Roco reaction to this question. I'm not expecting him to admit that he is mafia. I'm going to gauge his reaction to this question in comparison to my own experience as a mafia player. Uuuuh Not really. You just say "no" as an answer. That's the 'correct' answer for both alignments. I'd imagine you won't be able to interpret much out of those 2 letters. I know in a post yesterday I semi-seriously pressured Roco to answer that same question, but as I just said, semi-seriously. You seem to really think that's a good strategy, lol. | ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
On October 25 2012 22:59 Dandel Ion wrote: Uuuuh Not really. You just hear "no" as an answer. That's the 'correct' answer for both alignments. I'd imagine you won't be able to interpret much out of those 2 letters. I know in a post yesterday I semi-seriously pressured Roco to answer that same question, but as I just said, semi-seriously. You seem to really think that's a good strategy, lol. EBWOP, hear instead of say. Tho I'd imagine you'd say the same thing. | ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
On October 25 2012 23:04 debears wrote: @djo But why did you use the wording "I expect you to do your job as town". That statement implies that you know he is town. Theres no wishy washness or "if your town". That's why its very weird And daud (sry I'm calling you that now). Using logic involving a sk at this point is not good logic. 1) a seri killer wouldnt know if you are town while mafia would. 2) we don't have any idea whether there is a sk. Its best to not worry about it unless there are a pair of nks on any night He's saying a scum Djo couldn't know daoud is town since there is the possibility of a SK. Not that Djo is SK. Not that I particularily agree with that reasoning, the chances there is a SK is relatively small afaik. | ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
On October 25 2012 23:06 Djodref wrote: @dandel I've just played a game as a mafia player and the most difficult thing I had to answer to was "why do you think you are not going to be targeted tonight ?" I had a very strong case written against me at one time. But rather than this dead-on case (from mementoss if you want to read our Looney Lynching game), this only simple question has made my whole mentality crumbled. I know everybody is going to say "lol, no, I'm not mafia". But my question is psychological warfare ^^ That's a different situation and a different question.. Most importantly, it's not a question you can just wave off with a "no". It's one that requires an answer with reasoning and logic. It's a decent question to ask. "are u scum" can be answered in a word, non-commitically. I don't think it's a good question. But I'm starting to argue semantics.... | ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
On October 26 2012 00:30 debears wrote: @Djo Why did you ask the question? The answer is pretty obvious as town or scum You'd say "I'm town" no matter what. The question was useless and you know it. There is no real reaction that can be read from a question like that. It's not a big lie if the person is mafia by any means. I don't like that. It makes you look like you are contributing without actually doing so He did already explain it... You're beating a dead horse over there. | ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
On October 26 2012 00:25 Alsn wrote: All right, here I am again. First things first, Dandel asked me about lurker policy. I think that it's a potent tool in order to pressure scum into participating. Scum slips are nice and all, but if there's no pressure there's less chance of one happening. That being said in general I feel that lurker lynching is at the very best a ~25% chance of catching scum(random chance), policy or no. Generally I've gotten the feeling that lurkers don't lurk for strategic reasons, but because something pulled them away from the game and that's definitely something which can happen to anyone. With regards to other policy, what would that be, exactly? I'm all in favour of logical policy lynching. If an argument can be made that town benefits from it I'm all for it(see my thoughts on kush from my first few posts last game if you're interested in an example of why I think so). There's no player in this game that warrants such a lynch though, unless we are talking behavioural policy, but I'm not really familiar with any example of that so I would have to address such policy on a case by case basis. A few things stood out to me when I skimmed through the thread earlier today and I'll be posting some of my comments on what has actually happened so far over the course of the evening. Lynching liars, lynching trolls, things like that. I don't see any of those in this game so far, so that's good. I just wanted to mention there can be other policies too | ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
On October 26 2012 00:35 sylverfyre wrote: I was making that list because I wasn't even sure myself who/how many people hadn't spoken up. I was trying to stir something up and you can also consider it a kind of "roleclaim-lite" (I hardly expect anyone to claim they enjoy playing scum when I ask ingame, but i think it could have been interesting to see if some people said they like a particular pro-town power-role.) So, you admit you were rolefishing? | ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
On October 26 2012 00:48 debears wrote: I never said we are lynching a non lurker no matter what. I want to push cases, and if we have something good, then we lynch that person. Lurkers are a last resort. There are most likely 3 mafia. A lynch wasted on a lurker is suboptimal as town if there are people posting some really scummy things. I basically said the same thing, and you FoS'd me for it. reference: On October 25 2012 10:26 debears wrote: What are you saying here exactly? Policy lynches are by no means a necessity. If we are confident and push reads, like dp did last game, then the scum will show. Why do you lack the confidence of catching scum d1? FOS dandel Btw guys officially postjng from phone for rest of night. Tell me if something gets messes up and u can't read Now the question is, did you read my post wrong, or are you being hypocritical? | ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
Being suspicious of somebody because he's not "confident" enough, is equally stupid. Rad, don't play the newbie card. We've been over this. | ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
| ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
On October 26 2012 01:20 Clarity_nl wrote: Will be active from now on, just didn't have it in the back of my head to check TL a lot. Now that the game has started I will basically be checking as much as possible. Well, I'm sure you have more thoughts than just a FoS on debears for "advocating chaos" So, how about you present those for now. | ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
I need to train my speed. | ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
On October 26 2012 01:28 Rad wrote: This is some of what I've got from you and/or djo 1. Pushed the confidence theme hard, as if to make it seem like we NEED to have a scum lynch d1 rather than a policy lurker lynch. 2. Acted overconfident as if it was easy to make a scum read on d1 (is it? doesn't seem like it, and that's not due to lack of confidence, it's due to lack of information). 3. Twisted people's statements, either responding with something that had nothing to do with the original statement, or focusing heavily on a particular statement as if to give it more importance than it really should have. All of these things feel scummy to me. I personally find it hard to be convinced by an argument like this, tbh. It was annoying and all, but it might as easily be a overeager-town-tell as a scum-tell. In my first game, I tunneled a dude HARD during day1 because he constantly misinterpreted posts wrong and I thought it to be intentional. He ended up being town. What I learned from it: Stupidity is a null-tell in newbie games. Misinterpretations are a null-tell in newbie games. Basically how I see things right now: de bear and Djokovic have not yet learned this lesson, so they are overly confident they can nail scum. It's also why I'm not very confident in finding scum day1. | ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
On October 26 2012 01:42 Djodref wrote: @Rad My comments in red in your quoted post. You don't get it. You establish a lurker-lynch policy early. Potential lurkers see it and go all "oh shit if I lurk I'm gonna die" So they don't lurk. If you say "nah I'm completely against lynching lurkers" or "We should lynch the most active people" What do lurkers do when they see that? They'll tell themselves "cool, I'm set" And then they lurk. | ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
On October 26 2012 02:04 Djodref wrote: I'm not against a policy lynch but I think it would be better to bring it up when the right time comes (like 6 hours before the lynch ? anyway at a time we can finally identify some serious lurker). Taking an early decision against or for policy lynches is just going to help mafia to use this decision on their favor. Anyway, a lot of people seem to favor a policy lynch for today. I'm not going to go against it but I would appreciate these people to get into super scumhunting mode right now. I'm not going to forgive laziness at all, especially if you are supporting a policy lynch. By the way, what do you think about Inig ? I certainly have concerns regarding Inig. It's been said: He doesn't take a stance on anything. And that is a worrying behaviour. As far as my personal scummy lurker ranking goes, I'm still more suspicious of Roco (neither posted in the meantime, so it's hard to change opinion on that) I'd like to say that so far, I agree that Roco seems suspicious, but more than anything else, he just makes no sense. More than anything else that's a null read to me, especially with how early in the game we are. However, if his play doesn't change dramatically I would say he is at risk for getting a vote from me simply due to being unhelpful to town. I know "not making sense" doesn't neccessarily = scum, especially in newbies. My biggest problem right now, is that he posted those confusing/nonsensical statements, and then just disappeared from the face of earth without explaining himself, even though people called him out on it in a very reasonable timeframe. | ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
On October 26 2012 02:04 Djodref wrote: I'm not against a policy lynch but I think it would be better to bring it up when the right time comes (like 6 hours before the lynch ? anyway at a time we can finally identify some serious lurker). Also, about that, I sometimes have the tendency to overexaggerate. I'm trying to restrain myself, but it keeps happening. For the record, I know you never said you're completely against it :/ | ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
| ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
On October 26 2012 03:42 Inigmaticalism wrote: As for everyone else I need to read their posts again. It seems my scum-hunting has so far resulted in town-finding, but thats how its gone. What scumhunting exactly? I didn't ever see you do something that would qualify as such. Also, I deliberately dodged sylvers question about what your favorite role is to play to show I was town(which, ironically because he was role hunting, still answered his question). I would never have posted such an awkward response I was mafia, I would have simply ignored the question all together, but it seems no one took it that way. Pure WIFOM. You said you wouldn't do it as scum, but if you are scum, you could do it, point at it, and say "I'd never do this as scum". It's impossible to get a read on your original answer, but the INSTANT you try to argue with "I'd never do this as scum"-WIFOM shit, it gets me riled up. Don't do that. It doesn't make you look good. | ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
That's just sitting back and hoping others do the work for you. And THAT'S the best-case scenario where I, for the sake of this argument assume a town perspective. | ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
On October 26 2012 03:51 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Okay guys I'm back from class, will be on for the rest of the night. Following up my FoS on Djodref--He's seeming more scummy as time goes on. I'm concerned about his attitude in the thread. Check his filter, and look at how many ^^ :p, etc there are. He even uses a smiley when addressing his supposed scumslip, a time when you should be definite about your defense. He even gives Debears a <3 at some point. What is this all about? I think he's trying to show himself in a happy, innocent, and loving light; perhaps to cover up something sinister. This could just be his personality, but I don't buy it for a second. Also, why would you say this, Djodref? Everybody's "principal concern" is to find mafia. Sort of like that "why are you afraid of seeming suspicious" question -- the answer is self explanatory. I fail to see a point here. That's what I have to say concerning Djodref atm, and my FoS still applies. In terms of the most active poster, Debears, I've a slight town read on him. Promoting discussion, getting people to talk. Could be scum trying to seem active, but I see no fault with him as of yet. I'll be looking through the rest of the thread to get reads on other posters. Are you seriously making a case on smilies? The only thing that even remotely has a point is his "<3 debears", but just because it seems a bit like he's buddying him up. Not because it makes him look 'happy'. I must admit, I'm a little bit worried about a djo+debears scumteam, but not nearly enough to even FoS either of them. I'm also (even less) worried about a djo+daoud scumteam, since the slip and following call-out on it might have been intentional. At this point, I realize I'm getting paranoid. And I'm getting carried away with my hard-on for association cases, and I am currently trying to get away from that too. Taking a break from thinking about this game... | ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
There are (or were, at least) some suspicions of Alsn based on his meta, and I just want to weigh in with this: He said he has college entrace exams tomorrow. Assuming that's true (and I see no reason why it shouldn't be), that explains his absence. You gotta learn for things like that. Just to say, I'm not going to be up for an Alan lynch today, in case somebody actually planned to do that. His posts were not scummy so far, and the only argument against him could be meta. Which, in light of this, is not a good argument even. We can revisit this if he still plays like that after Saturday. | ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
On October 26 2012 18:22 Inigmaticalism wrote: If I couldnt lynch any lurkers I really wouldnt want to lynch, but we have to. -Asln has posts (if im right) 3 posts so far. Almost just says 'Im here', but at least he contributes something (FOS at you mostly). I would want to vote for him later simply because he actually said something. -Sylvers interesting because he has tried to be helpful in his own way (role-hunting, player list repost), but once we made him clarify what he was doing hes been silent. Discouraged townie or having a hard time finding fact stuff to post? Really not sure. -Roco has 2 posts and says nothing. Yeah, policy stuff, but really policy stuff can be said at one time and then the player can vote however they really want to vote later. Once again, maybe townie shut down once he voiced his opinion? Cept hes scummier to me since he doesnt say anything. Roco and Asln, post a few more posts! They can be real simple, just give 1 or a few scum-reads and a few reasons/facts to back them up. Its ok if they rip you apart, they did me, its about getting some more info/different insight out there for town. -Dandel may be my biggest strong scum read. Its funny, most people go after those who post lots and those who post little, not those who post a decent amount(cheesecake, dandel) or not at all(oats, imcasey). Hes been fairly active, pushing different discussions here and there, nothing too major, thats what Ive been doing. Then he takes up a case against Roco, and not only is Roco probably the easiest target to target, but he doesnt even get real serious about it. He FOS to make it LOOk strong, but explains why hes being soft about it here: He also says how hes not going to let Roco slide, and thats exactly what hes done. Not one mention of Roco in the few posts hes made after that. And he seems to talk to all the semi-lurkers and Djo. Not sure if thats anything important, but Ill keep it in mind. THEN he tries to start EVEN MORE policy discussion, again, in my own words, "stupid (because I was frustrated) and pointless." Contributing to killing time rather than scum-hunting. No attempt to explain why not either, just getting everyones policy straight is "important": Like I said, because you can simply change your stance and have wonderful excuses like "of course Id lynch scum over my policy, duh" or whatever, its wasted time. Not only does it look like its a pro-town move, but I would think mafia would benefit more from town knowing how people were going to vote. Swing lynches easier. (And that BETTER NOT be wifom. Cause I think its a darn good idea). - I am most willing to Vote for Dandel, and if I have any time for more scumhunting, it will be on you dan. Please feel free to reply to this so I can think about what to do before lynch-time. -Mr. CC I like his style a lot, and have thought he was very townie. However, I need to actually read what hes said just like I just did to dandel to see if its content or fluff, but I REALLY need to sleep, so I cant. One of you lurkers (or someone), take up this job while Im lurking between now and lynch-time. Otherwise Ill get to it Day2 if Im still alive. The only thing against him is the post I made a few posts up about him giving me a seriously stern 'look', where its almost like he defends and attacks me at the same time. So....interesting. -Da0ud is somewhere among my roco dandel alsn (discounting no posters) list, but I honestly have no idea what hes said, and without knowing this knowledge I would be uncomfortable voting for him right now. -And that leaves the rest of you Ive made the risky leap of faith to label as townies for now: Djo, rad, debears, and Mr CC depending on what he says and when I read all his stuff. I am very hesitant to do this, but I think I will have plenty of time to change my vote. I would vote for you right now Dandel, and will do so at the end of the day if you fail to answer any of my questions, but while we wait for your responses I want to poke for more information. ##Vote: imcasey Tell me why I should not vote for you. Thanks for digging this up an hour before I would have addressed it anyways. Why I FoS'd Roco: It should be clear from my post, I would have thought, but I wanted to pressure him. Into explaining himself, into making scumreads, anything. Sadly, he has not done that. You probably don't understand this concept, but one of the hardest things in Newbie games is finding out if somebody is bad-town or scum. Do you honestly think I would have an awesomesauce 100% scumread on somebody after 2 posts? No can do, sorry. Which is why I wanted him to post more, to find out. He's not done that, which makes him MORE suspicious to me. It can be an intentional strategy: He doesn't post after being under suspicion, then before the deadline he comes in to vote somebody, so he doesn't get modkilled. The thing now: If he does that, he's confirmed himself scum in my eyes. If he doesn't do that, he gets modkilled for not voting. Logical conclusion: Despite what I said yesterday about lynching him if he doesn't post (which I primarily said to get him to post), I don't really want to vote him TODAY. Because assuming he keeps the lurking up, he either confirms himself scum or gets modkilled. If he starts posting normally again, I'm gonna have to rethink that again, but seeing as he's been afk for >24 hours already, that's unlikely anyways. I explained why I like to emphasise lurker policy: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=374466¤tpage=19#362 I even dumbed it down really hard in that post, you should be able to understand it. No, town benefits from having more information. Your argument IS WIFOM. Again. Stop it. What's even worse, is that you seem to possess the mental capability to UNDERSTAND lurker policy (reference: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=374466¤tpage=10#198 For lurking I think it seems even more of an issue in Newbie games than regular games because too many lurkers results in mafia wins most of the time in the Newbie games I looked at. That said, if we get any confirmed mafia I'll always vote confirmed mafias over suspicious lurkers. This quote, you not only show that you understand lurkers are a problem for town, yet you find me suspicious for trying to limit the lurking in this game? Because doing something that's good for town and bad for scum, through some random reason translates to "OH BOY THIS GUY IS SUSPICIOUS AS HELL" in your brain? I don't get it. You're not making sense imo. AND THE WORST PART: You do the same fucking thing you accuse me of doing to Roco, just worse. (because casey looks like a serious modkill candidate, and didn't say anything you could derive a scumread from. I was at least going for the lurker that had scummy posts, you just told yourself "Yes, going for a 25% chance of hitting scum is a good idea!") You're a hypocrite, and I think you're scum. But, in contrast to you, I won't just call you scummy in a big post and then vote a random dude that has a high chance of getting modkilled. I'm voting you! ##vote Inigmaticalism | ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
When he contradicts himself (or basic logic) doing so. I think his case on me is fake and constructed, which is something scum would do. Not town. | ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
If you don't believe that argument, check out my first game (NMM XXIII). Where we caught a scum because he posted huge-ass posts throwing light suspicion in every direction, without commiting to any. | ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
Doesn't Kush have the obs qt link? | ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
On October 26 2012 21:35 sylverfyre wrote: [...] If he either becomes A) not confusing, B) makes no action at all and makes me believe a modkill is incoming, or C) is replaced and the replacement can make some contribution. Vote Roco69 I think your sentence is not complete. I hope you meant to say that you will vote somebody else then? | ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
I can see, however, that Ingi lynch will probably not go through today, since nobody wants to support it. I'm keeping my vote on him for now (because, conversely, I don't find the Djo suspicions to be too compelling) and I still have hope that maybe some people will look at it the same way. | ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
On October 26 2012 22:50 Alsn wrote: Hang on, what? da0ud I'd like you to explain why you think Inig "blending in" is suspicious enough to vote him, yet you don't even mention myself? If anything, I'm far more guilty of "blending in" than Inig and I get the feeling that you're just sheeping right now. What puzzles me is that he still brings that up, even though it's not really true anymore. I mean, I think Inig probably scum, but not because of lurking or whatever, but because his case + the casey vote smell like scumplay to me. daoud, I expect better reasoning than that. It really gets me paranoid when people sheep on cases like you did, this early in the game. Man, I'm even less sure of anything now. | ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
On October 26 2012 22:56 Djodref wrote: @Dandel We have plurality lynch system, so we don't need to consolidate, and I have no idea how many people are actually going to vote today... Could you tell us more about why you want to lynch Ini ? You just HAVE to ask this while I'm getting second thoughts about it... My case, combined with my defense of his post: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=374466¤tpage=25#482 I should probably have split the two better, I guess. What made my originally suspicious (apart from the whole not-doing-anything he did for a long time), I explained here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=374466¤tpage=20#382 I didn't word to too agressively, because just this one thing wouldn't make him scum alone. But, both of those factors combined, he's (still) my stronged scumread right now. | ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
That said, my thoughts on daoud: As I have stated right after his return-post, his reasons for voting Inig are really weak. Mentions lurking and "blending in" (which he doesn't exactly do anymore) as reasons, and later, when called out on it, he just say he agrees with my case, nothing else added. I don't like that much. I haven't played with daoud before, but Kush has, and he has pointed out some meta discrepancies. Is there somebody else that can weigh in on that? Or some specifics would be helpful too... | ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
It's been said, but it doesn't hurt to repeat it: With how active he's being, his alignment will show sooner or later. He might cut back on his posting pace, then that's scummy. He might contradict himself and slip, that's scummy too. Or he doesn't do any of those, which I hope will happen. I understand that his play was scummy-ish at parts, but we can always come back on that. He also at least put effort into staying alive, which is something other people have not done, and frankly, right now, I'd let him live just based off that. What I'd suggest now, with a bit more than 4 hours left into the day, is that people either: a) decide between Inig and daoud - good arguments have been made for either. or b) if they want to lynch somebody else, present a good reason. 5 people have not even voted. That's actually a horrible position for us. Inig has his vote absolutely USELESSLY parked on casey, for no reason. Cheesecake, lynching Djo today is not a good idea. You should decide on somebody else. Most important is actually that you do whatever you plan to do SOON. If everybody votes and voteswitches only in the hour before the lynch, it will be pure chaos. And I'd prefer to avoid chaos if possible. | ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
On October 27 2012 07:35 kushm4sta wrote: @debears I did post quotes from daoud last game. The case isn't Omg great but there's not a lot to go off of and I think he is out best option. Inig has contributed wayyy more. This is clear by sumply comparing their filters. I don't get your point about the survival instinct. Scum have a stronger survival instinct than town. So unless daoud is scum, it seems like it makes more sense for him to vote daoud if he's scum. No, it's optimal play for both alignments to stay alive themselves. Scum doesn't want to stay alive "more". The only exception is if you actively save a claimed blue or a confirmed town. But I sure haven't seen such a thing so far. And from what I gathered, there is no way Inig has a strong enough town read on daoud for it to make sense to get himself lynched over him. The only way this is town behaviour is if he doesn't want to play anyways, but his posting so far didn't suggest a lack of motivation. | ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
On October 27 2012 07:43 Dandel Ion wrote: No, it's optimal play for both alignments to stay alive themselves. Scum doesn't want to stay alive "more". The only exception is if you actively save a claimed blue or a confirmed town. But I sure haven't seen such a thing so far. And from what I gathered, there is no way Inig has a strong enough town read on daoud for it to make sense to get himself lynched over him. The only way this is town behaviour is if he doesn't want to play anyways, but his posting lately didn't suggest a lack of motivation. EWBOP: Actually instead of "so far" in the last sentence, "lately" would be a more apt description. | ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
This is WIFOM zone, I don't think anything will come out of us guessing about this. The point is, the way I see it, there is no reason for town OR scum to not vote daoud in that situation. It doesn't make sense, and thus I'm treating it as a nulltell. | ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
So I'm going to keep my vote on him unless somebody claims scum within the hour. | ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
On October 27 2012 08:53 Djodref wrote: ok, I'm really doubting my previous case against you. And you are actually trying to participate. I don't want to lynch you today. Problem is I don't want to lynch daoud neither. What should I do ? Vote somebody to not get modkilled would be a good start. | ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
On October 27 2012 09:10 kushm4sta wrote: sighhh he should have claimed. | ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
On October 27 2012 08:24 Inigmaticalism wrote: I think da0ud and Dandel are a scum team. Reasons for: include they have each only ever talked to each other at least once, and the time Dandel talks to da0ud he says which may be fine but it sounds way too personal for them never have actually talking to each other. Reasons against: them both jumping on me after accusing Dandel would be poor scum play. And at that point in time, the only other lynch target was Djo. So possible scenarios include them being desperate, meaning Djo is also scum which I find hard to believe, or really was just poor scum play. So idk, it makes more sense to me that they are a scum team but not certain. Sick association case, tell me more. | ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
On October 27 2012 09:19 Djodref wrote: Does anyone know this nackhtjogger guy ? No. Well, I'm going to sleep. Reads I will give later in the nightphase, when I am not dead tired and actually able to form coherent thoughts. | ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
Djo is looking really scummy now. Remember the slip calling daoud a townie? By now, I'm thinking that it actually was a scumslip. Djo just said "dw guise, it was a slip, but not a scumslip. Trust me!" And people actually did that. My take on that: He wanted to buddy up daoud, and slipped in the process. The day 1 cases against him didn't hold much ground in my eyes, but daoud's flip changes things. ##FoS Djo So Djo is looking scummy, but I have an even stronger scumread, and I'll tunnel this one (like I promised I would!) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=374466¤tpage=28#547 (also some later posts, won't link all the relevant ones here) He comes into the thread, dismisses the Inig cases with some excuse about how he is "sharing his thoughts" (a convenient way to ignore WHAT those thoughts actually were), and proclaims daoud scum instead. now, the post where daoud voted Inig WAS weird. I'll admit that. I also commented on that when I read it. But it honestly was not such a big deal as Kush pretended it was. His further points on daoud: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=374466¤tpage=31#609 He excused Djo's scumslip too easily. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=374466¤tpage=31#616 He drags out a random quote of daoud from another game, and uses it as "evidence" that his meta is wrong. Later, he tries to imply a townread on Inig AND a way to subtly imply daoud is scum, just because Inig placed a useless vote on me. Note how this is actually a gigantic logical fallacy, since for this to hold true, he has to look at it from the perspective that Inig is scum, but he somehow draws the conclusion that town is more likely to do that? Wat? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=374466¤tpage=32#625 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=374466¤tpage=32#629 I CONSIDER THIS A SCUMSLIP, since he does logic assuming Inig is scum, even though he doesn't get tired of soft-defending Inig and excusing him as "newbie town" (a horrible defense, I think we agreed on that already), and even when he says he considers it a null-tell, he is trying to make it look as something town is more likely to do (which, by the way, is wrong too) On October 27 2012 22:06 kushm4sta wrote: Someone give me a meta read on debears. Is he usually this angry and rambunctious? I don't know his meta but it seems kind of fake to me. And also his little stunt in the pony thread could be something to try to convince people following that thread that he is town. (I actually did this when I got mafia several games ago) You played scum WITH debears. Don't act like you don't know him. His scum meta is something you should be perfectly familiar with. So I don't believe your "I don't know" bullshit. It just looks like you're trying to sow baseless suspicions. Same with this: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=374466¤tpage=36#713 You're trying to imply suspicious behaviour in another thread, from a relatively random comment, that doesn't neccessarily have anything to do with this game at all. That's bad enough. But then the part about how he PM'd you? wtf is this even trying to accomplish? If somebody PMs you, and you actually have a problem with it, you PM the host. Don't go into the thread to wave it around. And then you act like it's a null read anyways? WHY THANK YOU FOR THIS CONTRIBUTION You're just trying to shit up the thread and undermine the position of somebody that most people (including me) have a townread on. ##FoS Kush | ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
And I also think he's in a scumteam with Kush. | ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
On October 27 2012 23:35 Djodref wrote: @ Kush If you are town, I recommend you to refrain from posting this kind of stuff. I have been provocative in this game and I regret it. You could be tunneled forever for this kind of post. I WILL tunnel him forever. His play is painted in red, and then this response? Yeah, he's scum. | ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
On October 27 2012 23:40 debears wrote: Guys although the manner in which he expressed it wasn't great. His point is valid My case is more than just an association case. How well the association fits in is just a bonus. Compare my "association case" to what Inig tried to pull off. And tell me it's really the same level of badness. | ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
Right. I call Bullshit, Kushyboy. | ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
On October 28 2012 03:48 Alsn wrote: Fine then. I'll drop that part of my slight suspicions against you. Barring more information I probably consider you slight town at this point then. What? He played an ENTIRE game, with debears IN his scumteam, both surviving the whole game. And you just believe him, because .... Hell, I don't know why you would. You sure as hell didn't say. Really... | ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
Thank you for understanding. | ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
Ninjas everywhere. | ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
A little weaker scumread on Djo. Are you even paying attention? | ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
On October 28 2012 05:00 kushm4sta wrote: So you honestly don't believe that I didn't realize that was debears on my scumteam that game? and you think I'm making it all up? I know you're not the smartest guy around, but I'm not sure if even you are that... absent. Though, looking at what you are throwing around in this thread, you might be. I have, however, promised myself to not exuse anything you do with the explanaition of "stupid" anymore. Because of that same game. So yes, I think you are lying. I'm not going to give you any BotD. Had you read the thread, this wouldn't come as a surprise to you. | ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
On October 28 2012 05:01 kushm4sta wrote: @dandel it doesn't make sense as scum that I would LIE about not remembering debears. It's a lie that could be so easily found out. Cool WIFOM argument. What's next, you gonna tell me how you're obviously town because you did something that scum, in your eyes, wouldn't? Please. | ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
Even if I degrade that specific incident as a null read, you're still scummy. | ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=367548 Featuring debears + Kush as scumteam And me as a replacement for a town baddie. | ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
They way they all cuddled up to each other in the postgame and stuff, it makes it really hard to believe for me. | ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
2nd priority would be Inig. - I would be tremendously surprised if there isn't at least one scum between the two of them. I get a strong town feeling from Rad. Once he learns how to make a proper case, you should (at least) listen to him. debears I'm leaning town, Djo I'm leaning scum, but those reads are not as strong. Everyone else is pretty null to me, with only slight feel-reads in either direction, or real proper null reads. | ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
Okay. | ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
That's two kills. Scum can kill 1. Ergo, there's either a Vig with no bullets left, or a SK. I would suggest if you're a Vig, then claim. If it's a SK, we'll probably find out next night I suppose. Useless fluff: + Show Spoiler + How the hell was Kush town wtf | ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
Is there something you want to tell us? | ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
On October 28 2012 10:17 Djodref wrote: @ dandel Please show me in my post where I'm "so certain". I'm using conditional verbal forms... >.> On October 28 2012 09:29 Djodref wrote: I think sylver has been killed for this post I would say mafia was trying to snipe a blue and managed to do it. Regarding Kush death, I would say vig or SK. Both makes sense. But jailkeeper + vig + detective seems imba so I think we have a SK. On October 28 2012 09:31 Djodref wrote: By the way, if mafia is blue sniping, I would think that they have nobody on their ass right now. Your posts heavily imply that mafia is bluesniping Sylver, and you don't even aknowledge the possibility that Kush was the scum KP. Cheesecake's point about how fast you found a good reason to kill Sylver is also pretty good in my opinion. I mean, I checked his filter again, too, but I didn't even really think about that. To me, it sounds plausible that you've thought about it beforehand. I just want you to admit shooting either of them. You could still be scum, but the read I'm getting from you really strongly is SK. Now, my sample size is not the biggest, but I played a single game with a SK. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=367548 (doesn't say in the OP, but it's thrawn) And your play feels SO MUCH like thrawn's that game, it's not even funny. Since there's been no Vig claim, I'll have to assume a SK in the game now. Because it doesn't really make sense to NOT claim vig, he'd have no shots left, and would be, for all intents and purposes, be confirmed town. Which is something I'd like very much, at this point. Reasons to not claim Vig: If you're actually the SK and you'd incriminate yourself when there comes another night with 2 NKs. That's it. Conclusion: Djo is either SK, or scum. Both are reasons to lynch him, to me. ##Vote Djodref That said, does anybody even care about this game anymore?... | ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
I don't know which one is the scum kill. It's more likely it's Sylver, that I admit. But in no way, shape or form is it IMPOSSIBLE that Kush was the scum kp. If I wanted to speculate up reasons for it, I could come up with some. But it would be pretty useless specuation, and most importantly, fluffing up the thread. You unwillingness to even aknowledge the possibility that kush was scum-killed, reads to me like you have relevant information on the subject. That's why I think you were involved in one of the kills. If you're SK, you most likely killed Kush, if you're scum, I could see a reason for you to kill either. You're right that this lynch is pretty fucking important. That's why I don't want to waste time twiddling my thumbs like you all seem to prefer. We're already full of lurkers that probably don't read the thread more than once per day. So what rationale do you have for NOT pushing your reads early? If you wait until right before the flip, it won't do shit, because 3/4ths of the game won't even be there. Ergo, I think I'm pretty damn justified in pushing my read early. | ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
That, or your scumbuddies are lurking, which would also explain it. Oh, and I also played a game as scum against Kush, and we didn't feel like we had to kill him, even though he was the claimed JK. We killed Alsn the VT instead (who played approx. 300 times better in that game, btw). So I understand all about scum not killing Kush. The thing is, I can't rely on scum reaching the same conclusion that I would. | ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
On October 28 2012 21:50 Djodref wrote: Seriously if we could have lynched someone during N1, Kush would have be lynched. Mafia wants to keep that kind of players in the game. 1% chance of him being killed by the mafia. I don't understand why you cannot see it. On October 28 2012 21:40 Dandel Ion wrote: I don't know which one is the scum kill. It's more likely it's Sylver, that I admit. But in no way, shape or form is it IMPOSSIBLE that Kush was the scum kp. Where exactly do I "not see it"? Or do you mean that I should be completely convinced, like you are? | ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
Please be so kind as to share your current scumreads. Or even thoughts. Or anything at all, really. Even what you had for lunch is more interesting than NOTHING AT ALL. | ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
I basically assumed he was town in that game because his actions would have been absolutely stupid as scum. Lo and behold, he actually was scum. I don't understand how his brain works, so I basically decided I wouldn't give him any benefit of the doubt, concerning anything. But he comes in, plays scummy, and doesn't respond to any of the cases/concerns on him (expect saying they are "bad", nothing else given). Can you honestly tell me you didn't find Kush scummy too? Cause I don't think you can. I did not "only" suspect Djo at all. Yes, I tunneled Kush. I didn't switch to daoud, because, while the post that got him lynched was a huge "wtf" moment, I did not find him more scummy than Inig. Yea, the cases on Inig weren't too strong, but the reasons some people had for voting daoud were even worse. I'll openly disagree with your whole post. From your useless WIFOM you just included so that your post looks bigger/like it had actual content, to the way you excuse everyone that voted daoud (who did you vote for again?), the way you bring up things we've been over already... You used to be decent at mafia, but somehow you got terrible. I think you're not using the Newbie games right, usually you'd try to get better. | ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
On October 28 2012 23:02 Djodref wrote: @ Alsn Thank you I was feeling very very lonely... I need to check dandel's filter right now. But I would like to add that his vote on me for being SK or scum makes suddenly more sense. If he is mafia, he knows that I'm not mafia, hence him accusing me of being the SK much more easily than a town would be. I didn't understand how he came to this supported by thrawn's meta. That was not even thrawn's own meta, he was heavily coached that game. I'd assume you coach will have told you the same thing thrawn heard. | ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
| ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
On October 28 2012 23:21 Alsn wrote: Oh and no, I don't buy your supposed reasons for tunnelling kush. He presented a case on da0ud that made sense. He did so with what we now know to be pure intentions. Simply tunnelling him because you don't want to find out his intentions the proper way is bad strategy at best and at worst it's scum motivated. Uhm, no? I have a scum feel from somebody, I'll tunnel him for as long as it takes for him to look town to me, instead. Kush didn't give me any reason to assume he was town, so I had to keep assuming he was scum. | ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
| ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
On October 28 2012 23:28 Alsn wrote: His case making sense means at the very least the actions involving his case should make him read town which is very relevant indeed. Please bring up examples of where he was "scummy" before your first announcement that you would tunnel him because I sure can't find any. Maybe that's because he didn't POST before I said that? I said that because it's Kush, not because of posts. Which you could've found out if you were capable of counting. Or reading. | ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
It would be silly to assume it was a mislynch before daoud even flipped. | ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
On October 28 2012 23:32 Dandel Ion wrote: Also note that I didn't tunnel him for some hours, because initially, I wasn't sure if I should. His case on daoud looked logical at least, and I wanted to wait for the flip. Cause if daoud had flipped town, Kush would've been basically confirmed town, and I didn't know how daoud was going to flip. It would be silly to assume it was a mislynch before daoud even flipped. EBWOP: if daoud had flipped SCUM, I mean | ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
[QUOTE]On October 28 2012 23:30 Dandel Ion wrote: [QUOTE]On October 28 2012 23:28 Alsn wrote: Maybe that's because he didn't POST before I said that? I said that because it's Kush, not because of posts. Which you could've found out if you were capable of counting. Or reading.[/QUOTE]Truth be told, I didn't actually look it up because I was already sure that I'd be right. So basically, you said you would tunnel kush before you had any idea what his alignment was. Except I propose you did know, and you were counting on lynching him D2.[/QUOTE] I propose you don't know shit, actually. Yes, I was going to push for his lynch d2. Because I thought he was scum. Makes sense, right? You must be a genius to figure that out. Yes, I gave him a harder time than other people. Yes, you could consider that unfair. But it's warranted. | ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
On October 28 2012 23:35 Djodref wrote: @ Cheese I cannot accept you saying that I'm scum or SK. In my opinion, SK is played differently because you don't have a team and you don't have extra information as SK. If you are saying that I'm scum, stick with it and go find my scumbuddies. It is going to be difficult because I have none. Also I would recommend you not being stubborn and read my defense against your case again. Could I have your comments on it ? So you WANT people to make association cases? I'm not sure you understand how this works. Also, if your buddies are both lurkers, that's also an explanaition for the lack of defense. | ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
On October 28 2012 23:40 Alsn wrote: Now you're just putting words in his mouth. Just on the last page he said he wanted Cheese to find his supposed scum buddies *without* association. That's complete nonsense though. You don't need to find any scumbuddies, unless you want to make an association case. Otherwise it doesn't matter AT ALL who's on his team, and it's a horrible suggestion, the only goal of it being to divert attention from himself. | ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
| ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
On October 28 2012 23:44 Alsn wrote: Also, I'd like people to answer the following question when looking at Dandel: What has he done for town? A good question, Mr. Useful. I counter with this: What have you done? You got daoud lynched with some shitty reason on your vote. And then...? | ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
What has Cheesecake done? What has Rad done? What has debears done? Is nacktjogger even in this game? I can't tell. What about Roco? | ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
| ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
The world revolves around you. Well, in this game, it actually might. Considering that nobody else is playing. | ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
I might be back tomorrow or something, Alan and Djo, have fun riding each other's manhood in the meanwhile. | ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
Alsn's original case + Show Spoiler + On October 28 2012 22:31 Alsn wrote: Ok, I'm going to preface this by some WIFOM, although I think it's merited in this case. Looking at the situation right now, the only one at risk of lynching seems to be Djodref. More importantly, he seems to be completely alone in his plight. I think he's scummy, but this fact alone leads me to believe that one of the following three options must be true:
Looking at these scenarios, and I'm convinced they're the only ones possible, I find the last one to be extremely unlikely. While myself and others have at times at least questioned whether or not Djod was all that super scummy, no one that I know has ever diverted a hypothetical Djod lynch unless it was done very subtly. In fact, the only argument that I feel can be made that he is scum and other scum has diverted attention away from him is the lynches against Inig and da0ud. Kush(and admittedly to a lesser extent myself) were responsible for the latter, while the lynch against Inig was Djod himself in tandem with debears(and possibly someone else, I don't remember, please correct me here if I'm wrong). Lastly, Djod actually switched his vote from Inig to da0ud and was the last one to do so IIRC. To me, scum "securing" a lynch on a townie makes no sense whatsoever. The only ones at risk of actually vote switching near a lynch are actual scum, so protecting themselves against a switch is meaningless. That to me leaves the first two options and in both of them Djod is not scum. Sure, he could be SK and his actions don't really dispute that but to be honest, I would rather have a possible SK(and I'm not convinced he is) left alone and actually try and lynch mafia. Mostly because an SK isn't that worrisome if we still have a pretty good town vs scum majority. For that reason, I looked at the possibilities left. Either scum is keeping really quiet and all of us accusing Djod are town, or scum are in fact trying to get Djod lynched. I find the latter more likely, although unfortunately I don't really have a good explanation for why I think that is, it's basically just a hunch, although not an insignificant one. With that in mind, I went through both Mr. Cheese' and Dandel's filters and lo and behold, upon closer inspection I can't really find any good reasons to think that they are town. Sure, Cheese hasn't done anything particularly scummy but looking at his behaviour as a whole he hasn't done anything particularly town either. Basically, Cheese's actions amount to suspecting Djod and... well, that's pretty much it. Apart from arguing semantics and policy, that's pretty much his entire contribution. On the other hand, Dandel is in the same boat, with added baggage in fact. His contributions also amount to pretty much only suspecting Djod but with the added bonus that he said several times that he would tunnel kush, seemingly for no apparent reason. In fact I think the SK/vig(whoever it may be) killing kush actually messed things up quite a bit as I'm now thinking Dandel's entire plan was to tunnel kush simply because he's not a very hard target to attack(for those of you who are new, kush has a... let's say "vivid", reputation). Especially since he got a townie lynched. Finally, almost every single post of Dandel so far in the game has been fluffy at best, scummy at worst. He kept bringing up policy voting well after most people had started talking about it, as if he wanted the discussion to continue. His so called "case" on Inig was pure OMGUS and finally, his unwillingness to actually switch from that OMGUS case even though he actually admitted himself that it wasn't a very good case. In fact, the two people that could have actually been switched to were either Djod(who he at the time had said he wasn't convinced was scummy) and da0ud(for reasons I now suspect he didn't want to be associated with vote flipping onto a townie). So, to sum up my case for why Dandel Ion is scum
I'd like to hear people's thoughts on this matter, since I'm feeling pretty good about my case at this point. Oh and, ##Vote: Dandel Ion So, he not only prefaces, but pretty much BASES his case on WIFOM. Not the most optimal strategy to start with. So, the first half of the post is complete fluff and only makes it look like that case has more content/base than it actually has. Then, he says Cheese and I are similar in that we only suspect Djo and nobody else, but I somehow have "added baggage". I have no idea what this is supposed to mean, but okay. Had he read my filter properly though, he would've been able to see that me only suspecting Djo is far from the truth. Oh wait, in fact, he does see that it's far from the truth. In the SAME paragraph where he says I only suspect Djo, he even aknowledges that I also suspected Kush. (I also supect(ed) Inig btw.) This is a blatant contradiction and I stopped reading here the first time I saw it. Then, he determines that "every" post I made was either fluff or scummy. I made some posts that could be considered fluff for most people, I suppose. So, okay, whatever. But he states no reason for calling "every" other post I ever made scummy. In fact, he doesn't even point out a single one. If you think my play is "scummy" overall, then say that. If you come out with things like "all his posts are scummy", and can't even point out a single one, then this signals to me that you can't do so, BUT you want your words to have stronger impact. And there is no reason to look for that, unless you know yourself that your case is not as good as you'd like it to be. "The-guy-that-is-always-the-second-one-to-go-after-somebody" debears: + Show Spoiler + On October 29 2012 00:23 debears wrote: @Dandel Flame fest is anti-town. If you think Alsn's case isn't good, actually argue against his points. Otherwise, your actions so far imply that you think you are guilty and you can't refute his case. ##Vote Dandel This vote is staying put unless you explain yourself and the case of Alsn and do some scumhunting I don't think that could've been called a "flame fest" yet, but opinions vary I suppose. Yes, that's my contentless response to a contentless sheeping. Because he asks for it all the time: + Show Spoiler + On October 29 2012 00:54 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: @ Dandel I also want an answer to this question you so conveniently avoided. Why playing the confused card? I thought you were against the noobie card, which is basically the same? I was not actively trying to play the newbie card, and I can't do much more than say that. I WAS confused, which is why I acted confused. I think I may have even said that I was, and I honestly didn't think about how it would "look" to others. I can't say much more than that on this matter. Take it or leave it. "Hey-guys-we-didn't-do-any-NK-speculations-yet" Djodref: + Show Spoiler + [QUOTE]On October 29 2012 10:14 Djodref wrote: Regarding dandel, I've found him very quick to accuse me as a SK at the beginning of D2. I know that he is saying that I'm SK or scum but his posts strongly imply that I'm more SK than scum (he brings thrawn meta in and says I'm more likely to be SK than scum). It makes a lot of sense from a mafia point of view. It's true that I didn't consider the fact that Kush could have been killed by the mafia and that I have found a possible reason for the mafia to have targeted sylverfire quite fast. It was obvious for me that mafia would never had killed Kush because of my experience of the last game. Correct me if I'm wrong but Kush is never NKed by the mafia when he rolls town. Anyway, I should have looked like I had some extra information about the night kills. So, from a mafia point of view, I really should be looking like a SK. I find it very strange that dandel didn't wait that long for a vig to claim. Getting a SK lynched is good for the image I guess so he comes at me very fast with a weird meta argument to support the fact that could be SK. [u]To sum up[u] Scum dandel knows that I'm not going to flip scum. Reacting to an apparent extra information about the NKs from my side, he comes at me very fast saying that I'm SK (not waiting for a claim, backing it up with poor arguments). He doesn't have the time to go through 18 pages of Thrawn's filter. Seriously, it makes so much sense ! Town dandel would have reacted slower to an apparent extra information about the NKs from my side. It doesn't tell if I'm scum or SK (please check Cheese reaction to see the difference). His reaction could have been possible but it makes less sense. ##Unvote ##Vote Dandel You keep implying that I came after you "very fast", but that is a straight up lie. I gave you EASILY enough time to claim. I ask: "Is there something you want to tell us?" You seem to not want to tell us anything out of your own accord, so OVER 10 HOURS LATER, I make my post where I accuse you of being scum/SK. (This could've been avoided if Rad was faster at claiming, but better late than never.) You, Djo, will be happy to hear that I don't think you're the SK anymore, and you went back to being only Scum to me. You somehow arrive at how I "don't have the time to look through thrawn's filter", and I don't even know how you got to that assumption, or how it's relevant at all. But it's now redundant anyways. Honestly though, I probably couldn't point out a single collection of posts and point at it saying "this is where I got my scum/SK read on him", because he didn't have any obvious slips in there. He just posted a metric shitton and I always got a scummy feel off his posts. Which is pretty much what I get from you, only you post things that are slips, or at least look like them to me. Your "case", or post, or however you want to call it, is oddly similar to Alsn's too, in that 50% of it is speculation and WIFOM, which should have no place in there, and which I suspect is there only so that it makes it look like you had anything to actually base your read on. But I haven't seen anything. Oh, and I'm going to say this again, I was pushing for your lynch because you were either scum or SK. The chance of you flipping town are and were incredibly slim in my mind. | ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
This game, man. I'm going to sleep. | ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
I did not ask for this... | ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
On October 29 2012 19:20 Djodref wrote: Regarding the beginning of D2, I find it quite weird that dandel considered the possibility for Kush to have been killed by the mafia. He has played a game were he was mafia and he had kush as a self-claimed jailkeeper and they didn't even kill him. Kush is never night killed by the mafia, even if he fears it a lot, that is known Oh god, can you be quiet about this? Yes, I even said this in this thread, I wouldn't NK Kush as scum. But that doesn't mean that other people wouldn't, too. I find it weird that you DIDN'T consider the possibility. Only now the Kush shot is claimed, so you didn't think about it because you are scum, and you shot Sylver. You seriously like substituting scumhunting with NK speculation. Only a bit more than 12 hours left in the day, and you still use your NK speculation nonsense to try and justify a scumread that you know is wrong. Why? because your other arguments are things like "His cases on day 1 on people with ~2 posts were lacking in content" Well, no shit. You tell me a way to get content in there, and we can talk again. btw, let's revisit how YOU explained your initial vote on Inig: On October 26 2012 09:16 Djodref wrote: I have already my eyes on you and I think that your posts lack content and scumhunting. You are my top scumread right now. Let's assume that the lurkers are going to get modkill today, who would you like to lynch ? Vote-pressuring you ## Vote Inig Now, that's a case of content! You even back off your "top" scumread in the same post by saying you are just pressuring him. You later make a post saying the same exact thing, just with a huge bolded "WHY WE SHOULD LYNCH INIG" as the title. In there, you rehash the point other people already made (Me, for example) about the WIFOM as the only additional thing to explain the upgrade from "just pressuring". WIFOM/association zone, enter at own risk: + Show Spoiler + I think Roco is in a scumteam with Djo. It explains why nobody really defended Djo yet (although he wasn't particularily in danger day 1), and also how he hasn't been modkilled yet. But he comes into the thread now, and tries to vote me for a really shady reason? I guess we know which wagon he would prefer... Also, Djo often tries to defend himself by pointing out that nobody is defending him, which I interpret as him trying to get even a slight advantage out of being in a scumteam with lurkers. I consider this vote as Roco claiming scum, and he shows he doesn't want to lynch Djo. Why is he so obvious about it? It's his first game AND he's been afk for most of it. I sure don't expect subtlety from him. _____________________ By this theory, the third scum is probably Nachkt. Inig is actually unlikely with how Djo was over him day1 for no good reason. I don't have a scumread on Alsn, even though I am disappointed in his play so far. If the third scum is active, however, it would likely be debears, since I consider him experienced enough to not defend a scumbuddy if need be. But I also don't have a scumread on debears, so by process of elimination, it pretty much has to be Djo/Roco/Nachkt Djo tried to bus Nachkt early in day 1, probably because NAchkt told him he wouldn't come back, so Djo tried to salvage towncred for himself, for catching scum, instead of watching him get modkilled. | ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
I wasn't 100% sure about Inig. I said you were either SK or scum (this time I made it the "right" way around, just for you) because I had a scumread on you, and you posted this NK speculation nonsense you like so much. The way you were going on about how it was impossible that scum shot kush made me think you killed him, after you didn't claim Vig when I asked you about it, I thought SK was more likely. It is not really a matter of lynching a SK OVER scum. You had a good chance of flipping either, and since Kush died, I didn't really have any strong scumreads left. So in the end, you were my strongest scumread AND a SK candidate. Lynching you was a win-win situation in my mind. Now that the shot on Kush is accounted for, you are back to "only" being my top scumread. | ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
On October 29 2012 20:55 Djodref wrote: And I'm sorry to tell you this but my case against Ini, while not having a lot of content, is better than my initial voting post that you quoted. Please find it in the spoiler... + Show Spoiler + On October 26 2012 12:22 Djodref wrote: Why we should lynch Inig First of all, I would like you to read Inig's filter before you read this case. It's not going to take you long time and you should also make your own opinion by yourself. I would like to lynch Inig for the following reasons
Total lack of scumhunting + Show Spoiler + Even if he is claiming that he has done some scumhunting, Inig has not given us any scumread and has asked a total of two questions to other players. He is not putting pressure or anyone or trying to understand the motives of anyone. On October 25 2012 15:39 Inigmaticalism wrote: Ah yes i see, the 'why' is more important than the 'what'. Excellent, Sylver answer Djo when u wake up. On October 26 2012 08:34 Inigmaticalism wrote: Right now I dont have any scum reads, only town reads which Ive already said in earlier posts. So I would lynch one of the lurkers probably. Also, Djo you seem to be the only one really going after me, so while your asking everyone what they think of me, you should answer your own question. what you you think of me? -Should be back to post something in around 6-7 hours. As you can see, he is not really committing, even when he asks some questions. Emotionally detached from this game + Show Spoiler + When I'm reading Inig's filter, I have the feeling that he is spectating this game and not a part of it. This is a characteristic of mafia players. He tries to look active by telling us what is going on in the thread in his view but he is not giving us extra information. This post is a perfect example of such an empty posing style. On October 25 2012 15:27 Inigmaticalism wrote: I have a thought regarding the Rad-Debears argument, over the whole 'confidence' thing. Its possible Im wrong, but it seems that Rad views the world in a more 'logical' way, meaning that in this case (playing mafia) having sound logic and scum reads will naturally result in confidence from said logic. Debears may happen to be more 'emotional', in this case where having a strong will/confidence allows for people like him (and me) to be very logical when there is a strong emotional base beneath them. You've both brought up the pros and cons about each type of viewpoint, so it should be beneficial if you guys watch out for each other. It seems you've both explained what you meant fairly well, and Im especially glad to see this post from you Rad cause I was getting slightly worried. Ha just saw you summed up my analysis for me: @ sylver You seem fairly energetic. Also, don't really think "What's your favorite role to play in mafia?" keeps us all that focused on scum hunting, but as it may be some clever scheme of yours Ill bite. ......Well actually I won't because I realized I was typing how I play the game. How clever. Loaded question indeed. Attempt to gain town cred by using a WIFOM argument + Show Spoiler + This is the most incriminating point in my opinion. Please have a careful look at the following part from Ini in bold font. On October 26 2012 03:42 Inigmaticalism wrote: /snip As for everyone else I need to read their posts again. It seems my scum-hunting has so far resulted in town-finding, but thats how its gone. Also, I deliberately dodged sylvers question about what your favorite role is to play to show I was town(which, ironically because he was role hunting, still answered his question). I would never have posted such an awkward response if I was mafia, I would have simply ignored the question all together, but it seems no one took it that way. How can you show that you are town by not answering question ? Why does he bring something like this up ? Mafia players usually try to get as much town cred as they can, for whatever weird reason. I think he knows his reason to claim town are bad and that's why he is backing it up by a WIFOM argument. I mentioned that. In case you can't find it, let me quote that part. You later make a post saying the same exact thing, just with a huge bolded "WHY WE SHOULD LYNCH INIG" as the title. In there, you rehash the point other people already made (Me, for example) about the WIFOM as the only additional thing to explain the upgrade from "just pressuring". I don't think it's better. You repeat 2 points, then you add the WIFOM that has been talked about already. There was nothing original in that post, the only thing that's actually better is the formatting. Do you think formatting is a suitable substitute for scumhunting? | ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
No I'm not, lol. That was BEFORE the daypost. My suspicions on you, I pushed AFTER the daypost. Because that's when they got a foundation. I also had a FoS on you before that. Did YOU forget that? | ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
On October 29 2012 21:03 Djodref wrote: No, but it is useful to actually promote your lynch. You should be concise and clear as town. Presenting your case with the main points is helping you for both. Okay. I am leaving the thread now, because you try to make me flame you again. | ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
I am Honda, some fat guy. AKA the roleblocker. Why am I claiming now? Should be obvious - I don't want to get mislynched, and that's what seems to be about to happen. Do you have the crumbz? Yes. + Show Spoiler + I actually forgot about the crumb at day 1 at first, and I only remembered the next morning that I should've crumbed it, which is why it's a bit later, and not in my first batch of posts. Rectifying this is quite literaly the first thing I do, then:link On October 25 2012 19:23 Dandel Ion wrote: Right on, I'M Back. [blablaba] Bolded. Not my brightest moment, but I was tired and couldn't come up with a better way to incorporate that. I also majorly stressed out about how easy that seems to spot, but it appears nobody did. Maybe the tricky "splitting R and B" is actually amazing. My night action was roleblocking Kush. He was my strongest scumread, and while it was unlikely even then, that scum would send Kush to kill, frankly, I just had no idea who else to block. I'm no JK, so I can't save people (I wouldn't have guessed Sylver anyways, so w/e) Context: It's night, I had posted my case on Kush. His response to it was saying "it's bad". That's it. After he posts his nonsense about how he won't be nightkilled now (something he does like to post as scum), I decide to roleblock him. Link On October 28 2012 00:03 Dandel Ion wrote: So you're saying, his meta is actually the same to you? After you tried to make it out as if there was some huge meta divergence? Right. I call Bullshit, Kushyboy. Pretty straightforward. To keep it in line with the first crumb, I capitalized the B again. ((I also almost never call people by "wrong" names ingame, except for situations like this, or if I'm really sure they are scum. Both applied here. But you can take that or leave it, it doesn't matter)) Nothing happened that made me want to change that, so I stuck with it. Why I was so fixated on Djo being the SK: Because, and this part is actually not the best argument, because it's not IMPOSSIBLE, just unlikely, but I thought JK+Cop+RB+Vig would be too much blue, so I practically eliminated the possibility of a Vig. and I got VERY leery of how Djo randomly jumped into the thread and started a NK speculation (in itself bad enough, since it's little more than fluff) AND started talking like it was a 100% certainity that Sylver was the scum KP AND he found a reason why Sylver was killed in, like, ~10 minutes after the flip (this was pointed out by somebody else, can't remember who). So where does this leave us? (from my perspective) Djo is still scum. Alsn made a case on me, so I feel the need to OMGUS him. He's also currently in the process of setting up Cheese as his next lynch, but I'm not sure where that puts him, since Cheese is null to me. Roco pretty much claimed scum by sheeping onto the current case, no reasons given. Then he vanished into thin air again. His actions stink like he was told what to do in a QT. I wouldn't be surprised if he didn't even read the thread himself. No matter what, he's an ABSOLUTE liability, even if he should actually be town. Nackht is looking more townish now, although the reasons why he finds Cheese scummy still elude me. Frankly, I didn't really understand that post. The reasons for Alsn are even more obscure, cause he didn't give any, looks like. Cheese is still pretty null to me. I'll have to read nackht's post some more and try to make sense of it... debears is likely town, though it's strange how he defends me so hard just based on meta. Honestly though, at this point, I don't have a problem with it. He dug all that stuff up (A for effort) and actually thinks about the game, unlike many others in here. Rad has given me no reason to not read him town, still. I believe his Vig claim, no matter the implications on the setup. Plus, since he claimed the shot, it'd be suicide for him to shoot somebody else. If he's actually SK, then he's pretty damn good at this game. I am also seriously pissed that nobody actually even aknowledged my defense, and Djo just spammed 2+ pages full of WIFOM bullshit oneliners instead. I have, to this point, not seen an actual REASON why I'm supposed to be scum, and I didn't want to claim just because nobody reads the thread. Also, really cool how nobody is even in the thread anymore. Guess I shoulda posted this even earlier... | ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
Must've forgotten about him | ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
I don't know how frequently nackt reads the current thread (he's catching up and stuff), and the thread seemed to be pretty damn empty. I'd rather claim a little too early, than too late. I've seen too many newbies get lynched because they claimed 5 minutes before the DL. I'm also out the next hour or so, and I'd rather people do something productive in the meantime. Alsn is also balls deep in confirmation bias (IF he is town, that is), Inig not here, .... Too risky to wait imo | ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
| ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
Djo didn't read my claim post. Yes, I blocked somebody N1. | ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
| ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
On October 30 2012 07:45 Djodref wrote: What are you gonna do when I flip green ? Weep in a corner, probably. | ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
On October 30 2012 07:55 nackhtjogger wrote: Dan you should have breadcrumbed who you're going to use your night action on. I did? I roleblocked Kush and I breadcrumbed it. | ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
On October 30 2012 07:57 Dandel Ion wrote: I did? I roleblocked Kush and I breadcrumbed it. Or do you mean the next one? Cause that would actually make more sense, and I should've probably done that. | ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
| ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
I'm looking through filter/cases on him. But I dunno, man. I've had a scummy feel on you from pretty early on... Well, I'll take another look, but so far Cheese has been nothing but a null read for me. I'm not positive I want to take what I consider to be a pretty big gamble... | ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
Atm, I see exactly a single way for it to be even potentially useful, but I can't tell. Hope you understand. It's a rather...low chance maneuver in the first place. Rest assured, I'm not planning on blocking Rad. I thought about what to do, and it's the only thing I could come up with. I am a man with a (stupid) plan. | ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
Djo is really a desperate man if he wants to rely on Roco, of all people. | ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
On October 30 2012 08:32 Alsn wrote: What I'm saying is, I feel that in this situation, I can trust Dandel because if he's scum, Djod's gonna flip green and in that case, changing the lynch to Cheese wouldn't matter, we'd still lose a green. But if Dandel isn't scum, I can get behind a different lynch if he wants it. I don't even know why I'm arguing this, cause I have pretty low hopes of Dandel wanting anyone other than Djod lynched, but meh. Like, I hate statements like that. You basically say you're gonna sheep me, and no matter what happens, it's my fault. I switch to Cheese, he flips green? My fault I stay on Djo, he flips green? Let me guess: My fault. | ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
| ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
WHY DOES EVERYTHING ALWAYS HAPPEN IN THE LAST MINUTES WHERE I HAVE NO TIME TO RATIONALLY THINK ABOUT SHIT | ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
He might be SK, whatever. But he's not scum. I trust my feeling on that. | ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
On October 30 2012 08:42 nackhtjogger wrote: A leap of faith, maybe? Cmon. Alsn is not going to vote Djo because it's not in his best interest. Forget him and his reverse psychology. Please explain this. Who are you saying I shouldn't trust? | ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
I can't get a feel read on you because you think too differently from me. That bugs the hell out of me. | ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
| ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
On October 30 2012 08:49 nackhtjogger wrote: I'm at page 33 .. of course I think differently. Also about what happened before. | ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
| ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
On October 30 2012 08:49 Rad wrote: Dandel what are you thinking...? I HAVE NO IDEA | ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
On October 30 2012 08:50 Rad wrote: @Dandel Didn't you just yell at Alsn for asking you that same question? But I'm really sure you're not scum | ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
| ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
Sorry. | ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
On October 30 2012 08:53 Inigmaticalism wrote: For Djo ##unvote ##Vote: Mr. Cheesecake WHAT THE FUCK | ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
| ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
##vote Inig | ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
| ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
On October 30 2012 08:57 nackhtjogger wrote: useful | ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
##unvote ##vote Djo | ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
On October 30 2012 08:59 Djodref wrote: Seriously this is insane, I summoned the lurkers :O gz. They just got you lynched | ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
| ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
I am going to be very nice to you. If you tell me what kind of stunt you tried to pull back there, in detail. You will get free candy. Daddy isn't mad at you. He just wants to understand. | ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
Might as well admit to being scum, guys. Not posting amounts to the same thing anyways. Well, I'm gonna leave the thread now. Be back tomorrow. | ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
A) They, like all game, were just sheeping onto a candidate without thinking about it = without caring who actually gets lynched. Scum motivation here. This option would mean Cheese is town. B) It was an elaborate ploy to get our votes BACK onto Djo, because they "knew" how suspicious their votes looked, so it'd force the votes of the active people back onto a mislynch in Djo. Scum motivation. This'd mean that Inig (more likely) and/or Cheese (less likely and way more risky) are scum. C) They just wanted to lynch somebody else than Inig, plain and simple. Scum motivation. Means Inig is scum. So, to recap, I see 3 possible reasons. All are scum motivated. Cheese is 1-1 in possible scuminess here, while Inig is 2-0. Roco has the same alignment as Inig for sure. It's also a serious sign that they communicate with each other privately. And the worst part: They don't even try to explain their fucking selves. They just keep with their strategy and hope we'll try our hand at another mislynch and forget about them again. You can talk about your concerns of Alsn with him in the meantime, because it's not like the lurking boy wonders actually say anything. But I'mma be clear on this: If the lurkers don't come out with a REALLY damn good explanation of their actions during the night, I'm going to autolynch them first thing. (If I survive the night) And I'd ask you to do the same thing. | ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
If they don't, I'm going to assume the worst. They have given me no reason to to. | ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
Game I played with a SK in it (XXVII), was 3 scum + SK. So even with SK, it's still 3 scum. | ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
I assume name division is not made from lore? (no idea though, I don't play SF) | ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
| ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
On October 31 2012 05:01 Alsn wrote: Can we expect the day shift to occur at 01:00 CET again? I'm presuming that's what 02:00 CEST means now that europe is observing winter time? I'm asking because the OP still says CEST 02:00(+02:00) yet yesterdays lynch was at UTC +01:00. For me it says 1:00 AM already. But ye, due to DST, it's now at 1 | ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
| ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
On October 31 2012 07:16 nackhtjogger wrote: No worries, we got this. Oomnonomon Where's this change of heart coming from? Also, seriously: Read the goddamn thread. How could I even begin to take anything you say seriously, when you're still stuck in day 1? | ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
My trollread on him is pretty strong. | ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
| ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
I don't want to wait for a day again... | ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
On October 31 2012 09:14 Inigmaticalism wrote: Nope, appears I have not been roleblocked. Okay, thanks. Sadly, that means the small chance that my role still had of doing anything after being claimed is gone too. I call it the "retard check": I roleblock somebody and hope the say they've been roleblocked. Why didn't it work? I obviously have been roleblocked tonight, myself. I mean, a 4 blue setup (or SK, who's not a possibility anymore)? You bet your ass scum has a RB too. I kinda hoped, since nobody claimed a block after N1, but apparantly not. Thanks to roleblock mechanics (I verified this w/ host), if RB A blocks RB B, and B blocks random person C, only A's roleblock goes through. In this situation, I am B. If RB A blocks RB B, and B also blocks A, both get the block PM. What we learned: Nothing, except that Inig isn't retarded, in case he's the scum RB. What we could've learned: If Inig had claimed a RB, he'd be confirmed scum. I told you my idea was a crapshoot, but hell, worth a try... | ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
On October 31 2012 09:25 Alsn wrote: First, I think we can all agree that before this night flip, we knew two things. That Rad was either SK or Vigi and also that Dandel was either scum or town roleblocker. We know that scum couldn't know for sure if Rad was vigi or SK. However, if they suspected that he was SK they must have counted on him having a vest making him immune to one kill. Interestingly however, Dandel being scum or not would likely affect their decision greatly. Since if Dandel was town, they must have suspected that Rad was SK and thus night immune(since 4 blues seems like quite a stretch). On the other hand, if Dandel is scum, scum could definitely conclude that the possibility of Rad being vigi is much more likely(with only 2 blues it seems like the game would be very stacked against town if there's also a serial killer). Additionally, there's the fact that claiming town roleblocker is actually really easy to do if you are scum roleblocker. By the time Dandel claimed, he would have known from his scum buddies that none of them were role blocked. Neither had anyone else claimed roleblock so he knew the possibility of a town roleblocker was very unlikely(since town would definitely claim if they got roleblocked). Him bread crumbing that he would roleblock kush is a null tell at best. So, in conclusion, why I think Dandel is scum:
So, you're gonna risk LYLO because of.... setup speculation? With added WIFOM? ...... Well, good job coming up with a "case" that's impossible to defend against, I guess. I literally have no idea what to say to that. | ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
Confirmed town, town showed no willingness to ever lynch him, so they'd have to shoot him sooner or later anyways. SK also isn't neccessarily bulletproof. SK would've been the biggest threat to scum, if present. Town sure hasn't been.... All in all, Rad was the best target. Who would you have thought would die? Also, if we have 4 blues, it's actually MORE likely scum have more powerroles. probably all 3 of them. You know, symmetrical balance and all. Why did you make a if-I-die post calling me "probably town", just to flip-flop off of it after 10 minutes into "sure scum"? Did you, what, think Rad wasn't gonna die? Cause I sure expected that. (well, maybe still a kill on debears, but he's not confirmed, so not as important) If anything, your quick going back on your own prior "reads" suggests you knew you were not going to die. Cause if you actually thought you might, you would've included this line of thinking in the first place, instead of keeping it to push for the next best lynch 10 minutes later. | ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
If anything, your quick going back on your own prior "reads" suggests you knew you were not going to die. Cause if you actually thought you might, you would've included this line of thinking in the first place, instead of keeping it to push for the next best lynch 10 minutes later. You're saying those things you say, but this part still stands. If you were actually town, and truthful, you would've included your little change of heart beforehand. But you knew you wouldn't die. That said, I'm going to sleep too... | ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
I won't even bother catching up for the thread in the ~10 minutes of free time I'd get inbetween, it wouldn't help anyways. I also warned yee that this would happen (my first post), so don't act surprised. See you in ~24 hours. | ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
My head hurts and i cant think straight. way i feel rightnow ill probably pass out and miss deadline later in the evening too. Yup, im totally gonna catch some scum today. just gotta have CONFIEDENCE right?? at least theres not much to catch up on ololol. | ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
super awesome reads: the EFFORT method where you look at if people try to win as town, by looking if they give a/do shit debears - did a lot of shit earlier in the game, stopped doing so much shit at some point alsn - didnt do any shit earlier in the game. now at least pretends to do shit, which is almost enough to make me not want to lynch him cheese - hard to find out if hes trying to do shit, but end result is, he did next to no shit so far nackht - doesnt do shit, doesnt give a shit about the game. trolls the thread instead of reading it. but hey, at least he posts, right? inig - doesnt do shit, ever. says hed like to do shit, but then still doesnt roco - lol in the end, id be up for lynching roco, nackht, cheese or inig today. in that order. if you give me a really fucking good reason for lynching debears (aka not "cause he didnt die yet"), id maybe lynch him, but not too likely so, even if you dont count debears, i still have 4 ppl that id totally lynch, 1 maaaaaaaaaybe, and alsn of course could also still be scum, i just dont wanna lynch him today cause he actually plays the game in contrast to EVERYONE ELSE. or so. so i have 6 that could all be scum and then me who cant even look at the screen too much cause it fucking hurts i know full well that under the effort shit i could also argue for my own lynch but why the fuck would i want to do that tho if you wanna feel free to lynch me i guess, i dont really want to play this game any longer anywasy cause you know fuck this imma try to take a nap or something, maybe i'll feel better after. if i dont, I'm just gonna sheep one of the cool kids and pray probably lol. | ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
##vote Mr. Cheesecake For obvious reasons. | ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
On November 02 2012 07:31 Alsn wrote: Or for that matter, all three of us voting for you. nackht is a troll, you and debears are probably town. maybe. inig is townier than cheese, so i voted cheese. But who knows. Not like it matters who I vote, lol. | ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
On November 02 2012 07:38 nackhtjogger wrote: Could a scenario where the scum who claims to be rolecop (but is in fact goon) is acting like the real scum rolecop (claiming to be town rolecop) be plausible in your opinion. What do you think? why you even talking about rolecops? there are no rolecops possible in this setup. town or scum | ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
On November 02 2012 07:46 Alsn wrote: Of course it does. If you're scum, your vote is scum motivated. If you're not, it's not. You not caring actually makes you look scummy if anything. ..... it's mylo ..... | ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
yeah, well, I'm not. though you ARE prone to change your opinion a lot. but that's just you. should roco ever show up, he's just gonna vote for whatever nackht voted for (COINCIDENCE) without giving any reason. I predict he's gonna hammer me 10 mins before deadline. (anyone up for taking the other side of that bet? didnt think so.) | ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
On November 02 2012 08:05 Inigmaticalism wrote: nacks not confirmed town to me, not anymore. Hes being more confusing now than helpful. Just saying. Once again, stop putting words in my mouth cheese. when the hell was nackht ever helpful? he's been trolling all game. | ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
On November 02 2012 08:02 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: @Dandel Do you really find Inig townier than I? How can you look at his obvious active lurking + confirming nack as "town" and say that? well, nackht + inig + roco is currently the leading horse in my full 3-man scumteam speculation. individually, you are scummier. or were. lol. my opinion of nackht/inig goes down more the more they post.... now i know why all of them lurk(ed) all game. | ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
On November 02 2012 08:07 Inigmaticalism wrote: If nack is trolling, hes still said more important things than you have this game dandel. just my opinoin, maybe postgame will prove me wrong at least i said more "important" things than you did, though, I could talk about zebras and that sentiment would still hold true. | ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
yeah. do it CC. | ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
On November 02 2012 08:16 Alsn wrote: Seriously, anyone here not in favour of lynching Roco? i dont see anyone else IN favor of roco... | ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
On November 02 2012 08:17 Alsn wrote: Cause I'll be damned if I'm gonna let let's-not-stick-around-at-lynch debears and trolltjogger dictate who I'm voting on. Or maybe they dictate it by being on their scumbuddy (hypothetically me) and counting on you to change onto somebody else. it's what i'd tell my scumteam. pretend to bus one, make it look "too easy", get off saying "no way they'd bus him in that situation blabla" you're too emotional. and you change your mind too much. grow balls. In other news, you're at least town. so that's something. On November 02 2012 08:18 Inigmaticalism wrote: CC? And oh I didnt see debears on dandel, we have our 4 if I switch then. Hmm. Well, what do you tihnk about voting cheese? this just in, cheese is also town. nackht + inig + roco or debears scumteam. at least i solved the game 40 mins before it's over, now i can say "told you so" in the postgame. small victories. | ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
On November 02 2012 08:24 Inigmaticalism wrote: Ouch dandel. Prides gonna hurt later. why would it? if I'm scum, as you say I am, wouldn't i already "know" that? imo you just slipped and confirmed me town, but you're just lucky nobody will agree on that... | ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
##vote Inigmaticalism | ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
On November 02 2012 08:32 Dandel Ion wrote: Jumping one-man-wagons like a boss, cause i just noticed i still have vote on cheese, who is town. ##vote Inigmaticalism EBWOP: ##unvote ##vote Inigmaticalism | ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
On November 02 2012 08:39 Alsn wrote: Also, this is what happens when people refuse to take any type of stance until 2 hours before lynch. Bloody ridiculous. | ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
On November 02 2012 08:41 Alsn wrote: You're one to talk. I know | ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
to be fair, i WAS there day 1 and 2! the result was just... less than optimal. | ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
no last-minute appearance by roco and/or debears? I'm almost disappointed. Almost. | ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
On November 02 2012 08:51 Alsn wrote: Ten forum dollaz that he forgot and gets modkilled. i aint betting against that. | ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
| ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
On November 02 2012 08:55 nackhtjogger wrote: Debears might be scum too, which would explain why we didn't shoot him despite leader position, despite causing heavy aching to the thread. So... Let's see if having confidence pays off after all. fixed that for you | ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
| ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
| ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
On November 02 2012 09:00 Alsn wrote: Also, I'm reserving the right to claim a win this game if Roco gets modkilled as town. I'm sorry bro | ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
| ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
Only this time I'm on the side that can laugh about it afterwards. (or during) | ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
We didn't actually snipe him cause of the rolefishing, though if we were better players, we probably would have. | ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
On November 02 2012 09:18 Clarity_nl wrote: Is there a way to get to the start of mafia QT without clicking a thousand times? I can click "see all" in obs QT, probably because it's shorter. normally there's a button, but i also couldnt find it in our qt. made it hard, cause we spammed so much. | ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
On November 02 2012 09:26 debears wrote: @Clarity click all. Then click end on your comp. Will take you to the front fml I just now found the "all messages" button again MY LIFE WOULD HAVE BEEN SO MUCH EASIER | ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
On November 02 2012 09:27 Clarity_nl wrote: There is no all button. @ Dandel Wait, where? no, sorry, i watched the obs qt scum still doesnt have it, sorry | ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
I am in love with Mr. Cheesecake for absolutely no reason. Just every one of his posts is just awesome for some reason. I know that feeling, Hapa. dat Djo case. dat case. | ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
I told my team to bus me They didn't, after I already did the stupid shit. zzzzz | ||
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
You should trust my trollreads. They are always correct. | ||
| ||