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On October 15 2012 20:48 Mementoss wrote: Also, I'm gunna try to shy away from the connection cases with ON. Simply for the fact that ON was the perfect bus target. He was useless, and inactive so was guaranteed to get lynched eventually and gave easy town credibility on any one voting him. It also gives scum a chance who voted him, to shift the attention off themselves by using oh he voted for ON not to move on in this matchup, SCUM SCUM. So yeah, I'll take it into account when reading filters, but I think ON was probably bussed.
@ET
Well, according to mementoss, we shouldn't look into that ON stuff anymore ^^
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On October 15 2012 22:25 EchelonTee wrote: I don't care if you give me the bomb because I'm just going to give it back to you. If you hide, then I'll give it to da0ud. In fact I'd prefer you give it to me because I know exactly what I want to do with it.
I do find it amusing that you're trying to threaten me or something?
@ET
If you are town and planning to give the potato back to him, why don't you hide ? The result is the same and you don't put yourself at risk at all. I don't understand why you would like to have the potato to give it back to him. I mean, right now, prplhz has the potato and I'm perfectly fine with it. The longer he has it, the happier I am. If I could use a hide to make him carry it longer I would.
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No fucking way !
Why did you hold onto it like this if you were town ?
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I mean I understand his reasons but there is one more scum to find than daoud, right now I'm not even sure that daoud is scum or not honestly. He should have made the potato circulating because we would have more info at our disposal like who gave the potato to who and when they use their hide or not. I also understand that he had to take one for the team sooner or later given his position but it's not like he wouldn't have got the potato back at some time.
Shit, we were tunneling him so much we made him bomb suicided...
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On October 16 2012 10:37 Mementoss wrote:Show nested quote +On October 16 2012 08:23 austinmcc wrote:gg prplhz. On October 16 2012 08:10 Mementoss wrote: kush could be scum as well This is still not contributing anything useful... at least I tried to get people off the tunnelling da0d and prplhz all day and wasting the day. I tried to get people to pass the potato around so that this wouldn't happen. I may not have had time to read through everything and flesh out some big thoughts. But I was trying to tell people to get off them and pass the potato. Without the potato passing people didn't have to do anything. we let hiro do nothing we let kush do nothing and "plan" the rest of the games lynches you'd think ET who had a townie status by almost all would do something other than lolz prplhz scum and post a picture god damn. The funny thing is in a mini its more than likely all these guys are scum. so anti town. oh well, lets learn from it and have a better day 2. I will look into hiro and kush specifcally before nights end. I doubt scum will want to kill me. But just incase.
I would like to add that we also let Hopeless do nothing on day2. He has been on holidays since he exposed us his brilliant plan.
@Hopeless
I gave you a second chance because your defense of my case made sense but I would have expected you to be less lurky and really investing yourself in this game after the brilliant plan. You doing almost nothing expect saying that prplhz and daoud were scum since then. I would appreciate you to shape up or I would have the regret to have to cote you again in the near future.
@Hiro
Why were you holding onto the bomb at the beginning on day2 ? And why were you active in the thread only at that time ? I want you to post MORE.
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On October 16 2012 11:35 da0ud wrote:Show nested quote +On October 16 2012 11:02 Djodref wrote:
@Hiro Why were you holding onto the bomb at the beginning on day2 ? And why were you active in the thread only at that time ? I want you to post MORE. This is perfect non-sense hypothetical analysis. I did the same when saying scum people were not among the ones with a BYE in Day1. I am sure this was pure randomness. I have initially been considered scummy for that initial post. You should be considered less town for this last one !
I wanted to ask him why he didn't give directly the bomb to prplhz. As I've explained to you earlier, I don't see any reason why a town player would like the potato not circulating, because it retains potential information. Well, I was wrong on this because obviously, some townies like potato too much (sorry prplhz...). But this was the beginning of the day and he was like, parading with it. In my point of view, he should have started to make it circulate. That's why I want to know explanations for what his motivations were at that time because what he said about it is quite poor.
On October 15 2012 06:02 HiroPro wrote: Do you think that the potato will blow up before 24 hours? No, the chance is almost none. After that though, it's a toss up. And I intend to make sure that you are the one with the potato at 24 hours.
So yes I do control the lynch.
I'm saying quite poor because he realizes after that he doesn't control the lynch by giving him the potato before the aforementioned 24 hours.
This and his lurky habits made me suspicious of Hiro. I'm realizing I may should have kept this for a deadline post but I'll put him right now on my scum list.
I have other players in mind right now but I need to work on the cases and re-read the thread first. I'll prepare everything for the deadline.
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On October 16 2012 11:50 thrawn2112 wrote: lol here's a brief summary of the hopeless thus far:
hey hopeless ur scummy
yeah man i know sorry bout that
lol
I don't know if I could have summarized it better
I would like to add
"at first it was on purpose but then it was totally not on purpose"
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On October 16 2012 12:09 kushm4sta wrote:Show nested quote +On October 16 2012 12:01 thrawn2112 wrote: lol kush are you sreious
sand probably wouldn't have gotten any votes at all if not for me. did you even look at my filter before writing that post or are you just mad that i'm not blindlessing saying "lynch da0 then mem gg"
"Blindly" is the word you want. I will explain myself further tomorrow don't worry. Until then I welcome you to continue scumming up the thread, making my future case on you stronger.
Why so OMGUS ?
You better have a perfect case on thrawn and good explanations because right now I feel the need to read your filter again. And it is not a pleasant task.
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That's what I meant with my previous spot...
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sad face
I'm actually preparing walls and walls of text for the deadline. Nothing to do at work right now. It's not like I think I'm going to be targeted tonight. It's more for the fun of it ^^
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On October 16 2012 21:04 kushm4sta wrote: @thrawn have you ever rolled scum before? Do not answer for liquid city since that game is ongoing.
If you rolled scum what would you play like?
austin ? Did you log on with kush account ?
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I'll stay around for a bit then I'll go to bed. I'll post what I have prepared before the deadline.
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Honestly, I don't know. I hope to be on their tracks But I would say I'm rather safe because I'm a newbie.
I've had some time at work today so I've checked the filters and I've prepared some cases and a last will because I was bored. I wanted to post it before the deadline for the sake of the last will ^^
I also think it would give my cases more appeal because I'm on a different timezone and I feel a little left out. And people are here for the deadline so I hope there is going to be some discussion about it.
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Ok then I'll keep everything for the deadline
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actually I've changed my mind ^^
I'm excited and I cannot sleep so fuck it...
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Why we shouldn't lynch Daoud
My main point here is that we have made a mistake while lynching prplhz and I'm afraid that we might do it again if we were to lynch Daoud. First I would like to compare the reasons why we want to lynch them. + Show Spoiler +I've tried to analyze the reasons which lead to the D2 prplhz's debacle. At that time, prplhz felt like the perfect lynch candidate. Mainly because of the following reasons - Questionable post quality
- Pushing Sandroba lynch, then backing off
- Attempt to get town credit for his last minute "save"
- Association with ON
- Holding onto the potato (scum players are known to like potato)
- Wanting to blow ET with his potato
Now let's take a look at the reasons advanced for daoud's lynch - OMGUSing, using weird logic to find scum
- Pushing Sandroba lynch, then having a very poor defense for his actions
- Association with ON
- Wanting for the majority to decide what to do with his potato (he didn't get to hold the potato at all but w/e)
If you see anything thing big that I have missed, I would enjoy to discuss it. Anyway, there are some common reasons between these two and I think that some of them are just not so good. I'm not saying that they are not valid but I don't think they should carry too much weight in our scumhunt. I'm going to elaborate the push of Sandroba and the association with ON in the next spoiler.
Why pushing Sandroba was not so relevant + Show Spoiler +Among us, we have been a lot to suspect Sandro during the first stages of D1: he didn't randomly advance to the finals. When you look at his filter until the following post, he looks pretty scummy. On October 13 2012 16:00 sandroba wrote: I'm not going to fight against this lynch. This is simply too stupid to fight over and I don't feel like it. If you people stopped one second to look at this thread you would come to realise that is simply no way I'm scum purely based on how this situation came to be. Also there is no case against me. I refuse to defend myself against the ignorant uninformed opinion of a bunch of riotters. This is no way to play mafia. You have to look at the intricacies and not follow the mob rule that is usually driven by scum. I leave you sheep to your fate.
My reads so far is that ET austin hiro and kush are town. I honestly don't know anymore about ON cuz I would expect him to try to at least keep apearances as scum. This djodref is either very dumb or scum. You would never as town (and inteligent) feel that a person that is standing up to you against the majority trying to lynch would be scum. Prpl and mementos are prob scum. I've been wanting to lynch him at this point and it was the same for Thrawn, Kush, and Daoud. I've haven't been here to witness the rise of town Sandro later on but I think it was totally ok to have wanted to lynch him at that time. We shouldn't have blamed prplhz for this and we should not blame anybody for this. After that, prplhz didn't realize his mistake fast enough and I guess that daoud wasn't even here to see the real town Sandro as he missed all the deadlines. Regarding the Daoud's defense regarding his vote, I would agree that it looks pretty bad. I don't want to give him total clearance because of this precise point but given the general level of his posts and his awareness of the game, I can imagine him as total town newbie with clumsy defense.
Why the association case with ON is not so relevant + Show Spoiler + ON was a lurker. I don't know what we can guess from his few interactions with the world. The two votes he threw on me were not even useful, I don't see any purpose for them. They might have been real panic votes, maybe not. We don't know. Same, anybody could say anything about a lurker. Mafia can try to bus or to save. Town can say scummy or townie (see prplhz as an extreme example). The thing is that he was a lurker. We cannot have anything tangible from this.
The final reasons to lynch Daoud + Show Spoiler +If we discard the previous reasons, here is what is left - OMGUSing, using weird logic to find scum
- Wanting for the majority to decide what to do with his potato (he didn't get to hold the potato at all but w/e)
I think these reasons are not a making a solid enough case. He could be newb scum or he could be newb town but my guts are leaning towards town when I read his filter. Especially when he has tried to improve his play during potato day. Regarding the potato, prplhz didn't pass it and it was not town in my eyes but maybe you see things differently when you have everybody on your back. One last thing. When I'm looking back at D2, I have a feeling this day was wasted. Because we had two obvious targets, we didn't think about if they were the right targets or not. Please think how easy it would be to push such mislynches when no one is thinking twice. Mafia totally got us and I bet they were enjoying nice holidays.
Conclusion
Daoud is looking scummy but he is not the right target. I have a strong feeling that he is in fact a newbie that is going to be mislynched. I would prefer than we not lynch him and focus on the right targets starting from tomorrow. I'm going to present them to you in my following posts.
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Why we should lynch Hopeless
Here are the main reasons why I'm supporting an Hopeless lynch ! Hopeless is
- Scummy
- Lurky
- Lacking of scumhunting
Scummy + Show Spoiler +First of all, Hopeless admits himself that he is scummy but he has played like this on purpose until a certain point. I agree that he did that on purpose. But I'm more and more uncertain of what he was trying to achieve exactly. For reference, here is the response from Hopeless to my first case against him. + Show Spoiler +On October 13 2012 03:56 Hopeless1der wrote:My responses are in red, primarily within the spoilersShow nested quote +On October 12 2012 18:06 Djodref wrote:As promised, I would like to present you my case against Hopeless. My main points against him are:
- Lack of scumhunting
- Suspicious unvotes at deadline
- Contradicts himself
Lack of scumhunting+ Show Spoiler +He admits it himself in this post in response to Kush On October 12 2012 03:56 Hopeless1der wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2012 02:44 kushm4sta wrote: From Hope's posts it's clear that he is not concerned with finding scum. What does he care about instead? -Will you be here for the deadline? -Don't waste your votes. Two topics, both of which I consider to be a total waste of time and a way to feign activity.
Addressing more of this: /snip You say I'm feigning activity. My activity is poor, and as close to trivial as it gets, but my actions have clear motive in terms of how people have advanced each round. You claim I'm not scumhunting. No, not in the conventional sense, I'm not. There are now 4 players completely out of the running for todays' lynch, but for all I know, all the scum are in those players. I have no flips and very limited information. I realize I'm not giving people much to work with, but I'll deal with that later.Show nested quote +On October 12 2012 03:45 Mementoss wrote: @Hopeless stop defending yourself and give us your two best scum reads or your view of the matchups and who you are thinking of voting I'd rather not give scumreads because of both the short length of the game so far and the lynch mechanics. I will go through the matchups and give my thoughts on those. Hiro vs ON is already done. Please note also how he implies that we are going to mislynch (all the scum already out comment). This is not scummy but it is at least not good town mentality. On top of that he refuses to give his scumreads invoking bad excuses (what are the lynch mechanics doing here ?) and for this, I clearly don't see any town motivation. No one asked me to clarify what I meant by "conventional". My implication that we'd mislynch was to point out that there are potential scum that cannot be lynched this round and to try and find them would not be productive this cycle. As it turns out, many disagree and feel that I need to at least make my reads on players known. That way I can put up a nice, townie face so that THEY can read ME better. This has not been articulated well, but I get the point. Suspicious unvotes at deadline+ Show Spoiler +I don't know if you have noticed it but his unannounced unvote at round 1 deadline had a influence on the kush/prplhz match-up. He let Kush advanced over Prplhz. Look at the way he presents it On October 12 2012 03:56 Hopeless1der wrote:
/snip I'm getting some flak for my ##Unvote All, part of which is I gave no notice that I was doing anything. However, I had already posted that I was going to be available during the deadline, which no one cared about, and the end result is almost exactly the same. The exception is that you, kush, advanced as a result, BUT Hiro was under the impression that you would have gone through without my 'assistance'. My activity during the deadline had a significant impact, which I would rather people be aware of so that no one is blindsided. /snip
I'm not accepting his excuse for this. Should I state that I'm going to be present for deadline tomorrow and happily reverse the result of a matchup ? Is this ok ? I don't like the way he presents it, stating that it almost exactly the same, when his actions led to an opposite results for one match-up. He has no choice but to admit it but the fact he has doing it passively (by unvoting) and shifting the focus on Hiro helped him to make Kush advance (or should I say eliminate prplhz from the competition?) quite unnoticed. First, Don't make connection theories until someone has flipped. If you wanted my read of Kush/prplhz, ask for it. Second, I read kush as scummier than prplhz in that instance, Hiro wanted him to advance but the Higher Seed rule was not going to apply. I also was reading Hiro as town at the time.At least, I didn't catch up at first. If you guys have all seen this then I'm sorry for bringing this up. What makes it even more suspicious is the global picture: - voting prplhz for one post, voting ON for being a lurker, voting me on a gut feeling
- passively letting Kush advance (reason=> wants to see how Hiro is going to handle Kush on round 2)
- not following Kush at all round 2, voting sandroba
I started to read Kush as town during Round 2 and I posted accordingly here:+ Show Spoiler +On October 12 2012 05:36 Hopeless1der wrote: SNIP
Between sandroba and kush, I'd prefer sandroba to advance. He makes no comment on the fact that thrawn thwarted his efforts to get da0ud advanced despite his "hunch" and has a generally low content filter compared to kush. I get a townier feel from kush reading through his filter.
SNIP Again, I poorly explained my read, but no one could be bothered to ask why
I would say that Hopeless doesn't really care about who is going to advance in this bracket. And the question I really would like him to answer is what he is planning to do with all the votes that he has carefully saved ? Of course I care, that's why I made Kush go through instead of prplhz. The rest of my reads went through. The fact that I used no votes to do it is weird, but not scummy. I very clearly understood and you could say abused the lynch mechanics, but my unvoting was extremely deliberate. At present, I hope not to advance to the next round because I don't think you're going to get votes and mine will be useless if I advance. I think you're town, so if I have to, they're all going onto sandroba.
Contradicts himself+ Show Spoiler +Firstly he did contradict himself while speaking about letting kush advance. I'm sorry but it not exactly the same when you reverse the issue of a matchup. And here is the second contradiction: I didn't understand why he was so obsessed with people present at deadline and I called him for it. Here is the post he gave me in response On October 11 2012 23:55 Hopeless1der wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2012 22:34 Djodref wrote:And one last thing before studying the MUs. @HopelessOn October 11 2012 11:36 Hopeless1der wrote: /snip
I'll ask again since no one responded last time:
WILL YOU BE AVAILABLE AROUND THE DEADLINE (YES/NO)? PLEASE SELECT ONE RESPONSE.
Hopeless1der: Yes
Deadline is 11am for me and I have a meeting starting at 9am which should end my business trip. So I'm either going to be in meeting or on the way back to Seoul for the deadline. In the latter case, I should be able to check the thread with my phone. Now that I have answered your question, I would really like you to answer mine: Why are so concerned by people being around at deadline or not ? What are you trying to achieve exactly ? There is usually a panic towards the end of a day to consolidate votes and have crazy things happen during the final hours. With this lynch mechanic, there isn't enough time to properly consolidate and I think knowing who is willing and able to be active during the deadline is very beneficial to town. Case in point, go look at the way I voted and my concern makes much more sense. I asked for people's deadline schedules again because 7 out of 11 players (not counting myself) posted without acknowledging the question. There seems to be a severe lack of reading comprehension going on in this thread. da0ud is evidently foreign enough that he gets a pass. The rest of you bastards, not so much. What I'm trying to achieve is using my votes in the most efficient way possible to maximize town's advantage this cycle. This, of course, assumes I'm town. I'll explain my reasoning later if necessary. Show nested quote +On October 11 2012 21:00 Mementoss wrote:On October 11 2012 20:59 thrawn2112 wrote:On October 11 2012 20:56 Mementoss wrote: It bothers me that these 3 players have the most power in town
ON Hopeless Da0
None of them used any votes officially, and all have 10 votes remaining. Coming down to the wire any one of them as scum could sway the results. If they're scum and that's their plan then they're pretty stupid because they'd be put in the spotlight for doing that. Not all 3, but it is very possible for one of them to be scum, gaining 2 extra votes after the first round could prove to be a great advantage. Mementoss, I get that you're suspicious of people having all their votes, but can you look over how I (un)voted and tell me if you think I'm scummy because of it?
OriginalName, you still havent addressed why you felt you needed two votes on djodref, ESPECIALLY when he was already leading his matchup. You were literally throwing away votes. What I understood from this answer is that knowing who is present at deadline prevents crazy things from happening. I think that the simplest way from preventing crazy thing to happen is to use your votes and sticking to them. Unvoting like you do results in more possibilities for outcome of MUs to change, something you want to prevent by asking everybody if they are going to be present at deadline or not. I think you want to give yourself some presence in the thread by asking everybody if they are here for deadline or not. In reality you just want to know if you can safely do you unvoting cuisine. [red]I changed 1 matchup and left 2 unchanged. In doing so, I was able to preserve all of my votes. Because my strongest tool is my ability to vote, I reviewed the votecount at deadline and determined that 2 of my votes were not required to get the players that I wanted to advance. I agreed with Hiro's suspicions on kush and I needed to at least remove my vote from prplhz in order to advance kush. If I was going to be more explicit about it, I could have used a vote on kush, but that was not necessary due to the lynch mechanics. My droning on about the deadlines was me intentionally being unproductive. My "unvoting cuisine" occurred again at the end of round 2 when I reduced my votes so as to not waste them. This is not inherently scummy behavior in my opinion. /snip After this, I would have expected him to shape up his game and I have called him on it but it's not really better. Just read by yourself, it's quite short and quite obvious. He has been totally sheeping on daoud and on prplhz and he doesn't really care who to lynch between the two of them. In his own opinion Yeah I just read my own filter...I look like shit. Again. This time unintentional.
I gave you a second chance but I'm buying your explanations anymore.
Lurky + Show Spoiler +Once again, it's pretty obvious if you have ever read his filter. What really irks me is his low presence during D2. It looks like there was nothing interesting for him once it was quite obvious that daoud or prplhz were going to explode with the potato. On October 15 2012 10:07 Hopeless1der wrote: Okay then, prplhz hides immediately. Hiro passes to mmt. Da0ud hides. Mmt passes to prplhz. Prplhz plays hot potato with da0ud until it goes explody And this is just after being sheeping for both the cases on daoud on prplhz. He doesn't even try to give us is preference. I bet it's because any of them would do for him. Very scum like.
Lack of scumhunting + Show Spoiler +On October 15 2012 23:56 Hopeless1der wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2012 22:36 EchelonTee wrote: @1der, any reason why you are refraining from doing anything today? What's your opinion of the potato shenanigans?
The general consensus (which I agree with) is that one of da0ud or prplhz should be lynched. Personally, I think da0ud is more likely scum. The lynch mechanic itself has too much randomness to it for us to make a proper plan. At this point I have no intention of hiding. If I turn up with the potato, da0ud will be my first choice. Beyond that, I'd be looking for scummy things from other players. Things like MMT wanting us to ignore ON's flip to prove prplhz or da0ud being scum. They were both out in the first round. Other than the known information of scum flipping, it is extremely difficult to demonstrate scum motive for them when they are already safe from the lynch day1. The bulk of my read on da0ud revolves around his interaction with ON's situation. This only thing with some content that I could found from him lately...
What speaks for him + Show Spoiler + I still believe he was playing scummy on purpose at the first time because there is no way to play like this if you are not doing it on purpose. But I don't know on which purpose. It doesn't make sense for scum to do this but it doesn't really make sense for town either so I don't know. But I wouldn't do this at all if my lurky scum partner was going to face me in semi-finals.
Conclusion It would make no sense for him to be scum but he has such an anti-town play that I don't believe him to be town anymore. Right now, I believe he's playing a WIFOMy act ("too scummy to be scum") so I would support an Hopeless lynch.
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Why we should lynch Hiro
I consider Hiro as my second scumread behind Hopeless. I'm going to present you why I'm supportive of a Hiro lynch tomorrow. First of all, I've been suspicious of Hiro since the beginning of the game. This suspicious was maybe ill-based at the beginning but it grew stronger when I've seen him tunneling me during the majority of D1. Anyway, here are my current reasons to lynch Hiro. In my eyes, he is
- Lurky
- Not pushing nor sharing his scumreads
- Not giving the potato immediately to prplhz
Lurky + Show Spoiler + Hiro has been a difficult read for me because he doesn't post so much. I've been reading his filter a few times (don't worry it's not too long) and I would have appreciated him posting more because I cannot see his motivations clearly. Hopeless and him have roughly same sized filters but Hopeless gives at least some excuses for his lurking while it looks like Hiro drops by whenever he feels like it (like the potato episode). He also totally disregarded my calls to him to participate more. He likes to ask some pertinent questions and to give his comments when people ask him for it but he is not giving anything by himself.
Not pushing nor sharing his scumreads + Show Spoiler + So far, Hiro has only shared with us two of his scumreads: prplhz and me. I didn't see any attempt from him to push my lynch while I was a semi-finalist. He turned his scumread into a null read I guess for meta reasons. While letting Sandro advance at the same time. Regarding prplhz, I agree it was more difficult to really push for his lynch. But when you look at it, Hiro has suggested that prplhz was scum D1 and then accepted it for granted after that people have made their strong stances against him on D2. This move looks really scummy to me. Moreover, we don't know whoever else could be on his scumlist.
Not giving the potato immediately to prplhz + Show Spoiler + Some of you might consider this is not a big issue but I think that we lost potential information during D2 because the potato was not circulating. As his behavior didn't reflect the reason why he told us he was not giving the potato, I think he might have other motives for it. And he still didn't answer me why !
Conclusion I have been suspicious of Hiro for quite a long time and I was not sure if I was focusing on the right person. The comments he made were giving good insight on the game but I didn't notice until lately that he is in fact a little reluctant to participate. The most incriminating part is that he didn't try to push prplhz but waited for the case to be made. And he likes potato !
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My Last Will
If I were to die...
Please lynch Hopeless and Hiro for me, Hopeless first. I'm confident that one of them is scum right now, if not both. Please listen and trust Thrawn, he is my biggest town read atm. Please don't mistrust Kush (but don't necessarily listen to him), he is my second town read Please do not lynch Daoud
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And now I need to go some sleep !
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