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On September 06 2012 10:06 DoctorHelvetica wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2012 10:03 Z-BosoN wrote:On September 06 2012 09:58 DoctorHelvetica wrote: BC says the same thing i'm saying about how he lied about my arguments/activity level but I guess when he says it people agree
whatever
@boson my main case against ottox is him not pushing his reads and completely ignoring peoples arguments/logic while pushing his defense which is exactly what suggests that he has a preconceived agenda
no one is gonna listen to me in this game so ill keep doing what i'vebeen doing which is make a point, wait for BC to repeat it so that everyone suddenly agrees lol
Wtf?? He introduced a totally different argument!! Are you even reading right now? I got that from your post and I said those were supporting arguments but not enough to say omfg let's lynch him, due to my experience with SolarSail. However, the scumslip pointed out by BC is subtle and very VERY likely for a scum under pressure to make. the 5 mafia slip is the least important part of the whole thing because even I just assumed there were 5 scum, in fact idr if i posted it but i might have posted a scumteam guess that was exactly 5
Then why did you say that BC repeated your arguments and said the same thing you did? I clearly gave emphasis to the one he had just added. Well, we are just at a difference of opinion then, you think that his attitude and behavior is more lynch-worthy than him defending matt and this "scumslip". I insist yet again you read SolarSail on XXIV, here, it's pretty fast: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=359489&user=273717 It sums up why I think his behavior could be more bad play than scum play.
At least now we both agree that without a doubt loloxtott must die.
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On September 06 2012 10:16 Gravan wrote:I think Bill Murray is scum. Show nested quote +Also, Hapahauli, what is your read on Gravan? Scum or town? I don't want you using the word Null. Pick one. Scum or town? Consider yourself having a Gun to your head. This is the first time he mentions me. At this point, he hasn't put forward any kind of read on me at all. In addition, many of his posts up until this point (not to mention quite a few afterward) are pointless one-liners, or just generally non-contributing. The next thing he does is tell austin to read my filter as if I was scum (again, not argument put forward on his part - he is talking as if me being scum is a forgone conclusion). + Show Spoiler +On September 06 2012 07:18 austinmcc wrote: Show nested quote + Looking through his profile, I see his only other game was LIII. So he's at least played, although not with me. But he knows that some of the people in this game played that game, he played with them, he knows they are competent individuals with functioning brains.
It's the first time I've ever seen someone cling to something absolutely wrong in this manner. I have posted paranoid rants in two games, stuck by them for a while as possibilities, gotten upset if people wouldn't consider them as possibilities, but I didn't get like this.
Right now (and if Matt flips scum I will be more certain of the read) I can't help but read the whole thing like this: Matt got caught Ottoxlol tried to save him, without realizing how bad an idea it was Ottoxlol shortly realized how bad an idea it was A decent scum player told him right after he got caught looking very odd that he couldn't back off his defense, because then he'd look even scummier So he went full bore nuts, and that's why he won't listen to anyone or anything
It doesn't feel like he's just obtuse. At some point he'd get the message. It feels like he's clinging to this.
Do me a favor, and go read Gravan's filter as if he were a scum idiot Then he goes on to say that hap is on his scumlist for "coaching" me. + Show Spoiler +On September 06 2012 07:23 Hapahauli wrote: Show nested quote +
Null. Deal with it.
His posts/logic right now could come from either mafia or bad-townie. I don't have enough information to make a decision since hasn't posted much. Fortunately we have 48 hours to make a read on him.
yeah youre on my scum list so is gravan you openly coached him Afterwards, he includes doyouhas in this list. + Show Spoiler +filter On September 06 2012 07:27 imallinson wrote: Show nested quote +
I'd say Gravan looks real scummy right now. He attempted the same thing as Ottox, defending Matt by saying he was probably an assassin, but much more quietly and backed away as soon as he realised it was a bad idea. If anything that looks more scummy than Ottox at the moment.
THANK YOU. Go read Gravan's filter, and tell me if you don't find hapa coaching him? 2nd person I've caught him coaching that looks like scum with him (Doyouhas is the other) His next two posts that mention me go on to mention (offhandedly) the apparently obvious need to have me shot by a vig. Further, if you read his filter he is very non-comittal on the otto-defending-matt-and-generally-acting-scummy issue. His posts are passively worded and just softly agree with the flow of the thread at the time.
This is the worst case I've ever seen.
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On September 06 2012 10:18 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2012 10:15 Z-BosoN wrote:On September 06 2012 10:06 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On September 06 2012 10:03 Z-BosoN wrote:On September 06 2012 09:58 DoctorHelvetica wrote: BC says the same thing i'm saying about how he lied about my arguments/activity level but I guess when he says it people agree
whatever
@boson my main case against ottox is him not pushing his reads and completely ignoring peoples arguments/logic while pushing his defense which is exactly what suggests that he has a preconceived agenda
no one is gonna listen to me in this game so ill keep doing what i'vebeen doing which is make a point, wait for BC to repeat it so that everyone suddenly agrees lol
Wtf?? He introduced a totally different argument!! Are you even reading right now? I got that from your post and I said those were supporting arguments but not enough to say omfg let's lynch him, due to my experience with SolarSail. However, the scumslip pointed out by BC is subtle and very VERY likely for a scum under pressure to make. the 5 mafia slip is the least important part of the whole thing because even I just assumed there were 5 scum, in fact idr if i posted it but i might have posted a scumteam guess that was exactly 5 Then why did you say that BC repeated your arguments and said the same thing you did? I clearly gave emphasis to the one he had just added. Well, we are just at a difference of opinion then, you think that his attitude and behavior is more lynch-worthy than him defending matt and this "scumslip". I insist yet again you read SolarSail on XXIV, here, it's pretty fast: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=359489&user=273717 It sums up why I think his behavior could be more bad play than scum play. At least now we both agree that without a doubt loloxtott must die. Also I did endorse all of what he said so drH saying I repeated it isn't a lie. I also added the bit that I see as a scumslip.
It isn't a lie, but I felt he directed it at me, and I made reference specifically to the "scumslip" you pointed out, while ALSO having responded to his claims, not yours.
I can see a townie being a belligerent asshole. It becomes harder for me to see a townie being a belligerent asshole who spent much time hard defending a scum and gave a possible scumslip.
Also, Hapa does have a point regarding the count. I didn't realize it was before the matt lynch. If he was claiming that matt is town, then by his count, the mafia number is 4. Has there ever been a normal game with only four mafia?
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DrH posts a lot, and does so without necessarily putting in much thought. Since he's been all over the place, it's very possible that this could be a simple mistake. Let us hear what he has to say.
goodkarma's posting has been very lacking compared to when he was townie. Grush hasn't posted in forever, and Rewok's
On September 06 2012 12:47 Rewok wrote: Just so I can add something to the thread: If Otto gets vigi'd tonight and turns up red, Hap's next on my list. If Otto turns up green, Hap's in the clear. He seems like the next most logical focus after Otto.
Is blunt and meaningless. Why not shed some light on the most recent cases? Both you and Gravan have had enough of "yay look me at, I'm contributing! "
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EBWOP: sniped. I started post and went to do some shit and finished it without refreshing.
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@Bill Murray I fail to see anything special on that interaction. Could you be more specific?
Also, I think I have a decent case on Maverick. He clearly showed that he isn't worried about scumhunting. For the third time, can any clear-thinking soul respond? ffs
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Thank you!
Being defensive is a general trait everybody has. But my main problem is that he said S&B had a red flag and was suspicious. Wouldn't a townie, even a newer one, be more insistent on this? I can't think of myself saying someone is really suspicious only to not bother attacking him at all..
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On September 06 2012 14:38 Hapahauli wrote:Well looking at Mav's filter in Aperture Mafia (Townie)... http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=319120&user=174863Maverick is also pretty lurky in the early game, so I don't think his activity is indicative of his alignment. He really doesn't make too many significant contributions until mid-game, and he shows somewhat of a similar mentality to this game - slight pokes and prods, and an objection to an early vote. I'm not sure completely what to make of his "OMGUS" stuff against people who FOS'd him. It still reads as slightly townie to me (calling attention to himself), but he has yet to respond to any significant case against him. I really haven't seen anything in his filters that blatantly goes against his gameplay this game. Leaning town on him, but I hope to get more outta him in the next few days.
Like I said, my mention issue with him is not lurkiness and being defensive, those are just toppings. It's the fact that he mentioned he has a red flag on someone, and did not pursue. His last game, regarding this, doesn't say much, but it does say that he is capable of making cases and establishing arguments, something in which he has not done this game yet, despite accusing someone of being highly suspicious.
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On September 06 2012 23:53 imallinson wrote:I think the general consensus is that Ottox is scum and needs to get vig shot and I've said enough about him already so I'll leave that as is. On to who needs lynching tomorrow. I'm convinced at this point that Gravan needs lynching. His filter reads like textbook scum tactics. Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 09:38 Gravan wrote:First, the straightforward part. It seems to me that Matt is most likely an assassin, or a very careless player. As many have said before me, there is no case for him to do what he did from a town perspective. To me, it seems that if he were mafia or town, we would likely have seen at least some kind of attempt at an explanation - either to strengthen his fellow mafia by giving them 'towncred' as they jump on his bandwagon or to try to convince us we are making a mistake as a town blue. As an assassin, he could just be seeing his end and giving up - this is of course moot if he decides to put in his piece later. Since he is apparently not a random newbie (who is a random newb, anyway ?), and clearly likes to be an active player, it shouts assasinto me. Since it is day 1 and we only have so much information, we essentially have to lynch him anyway (even if we were nearly certain he is an assassin. At this time, I'll be throwing my vote his way. Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 13:30 Gravan wrote:On September 05 2012 13:00 Hapahauli wrote: Why is he voting Mattchew if he's convinced he's an assassin? Hell that post doesn't really explain why he's even voting - "we essentially have to lynch him anyway" - wut? This is my fault for wording this sentence poorly. Although I am still leaning towards Matt being an assassin, he certainly looks all kinds of scummy as well. There isn't enough information at this point to lynch someone else - this lynch will, at worst, be neutral. I feel that, unless someone who has better evidence against them comes up (unlikely) we are better off to make this lynch and gain the information (Matt's flip) than sit idle. I am just asserting that I personally think he is an assassin. I'm done on the whole Matt issue now; still working on making my posts more constructive and less parrot-y. If Matt flips scum, Ottox and Toad really need to be looked at. Ottox has been making his bizarre crusade about the potential innocence of Matt, as everyone knows. To me, Toad's last few posts have seemed a little aimless and very personally aggressive with little content. He spends a considerable amount of time shutting down and pointing at Ottox (who is looking obviously scummy or very misguided) in a well written post, then shifts to personal attacks and negligent remarks. His first post with any content is a soft defence of Matt. Along with Ottox this is meant to take town discussion away from anything useful and focussing it on whether Matt is assassin or scum. The second post is the same soft defence as the first but also starts trying to put Toad under the spotlight. The last part makes no sense because he thinks Toad is scummy for attacking Ottox who he also thinks is scum. The shift from well written to angry attacks isn't due to toad being scummy it's due to Ottox not listening to anybody. Once everyone piles on Ottox he backs away from this position while Ottox is taking the spotlight. When Matt is lynched and flips red there is no follow up to the previous posts. He avoids the subject entirely hoping it will slip under everyone's radar. Show nested quote +On September 06 2012 10:16 Gravan wrote:I think Bill Murray is scum. Also, Hapahauli, what is your read on Gravan? Scum or town? I don't want you using the word Null. Pick one. Scum or town? Consider yourself having a Gun to your head. This is the first time he mentions me. At this point, he hasn't put forward any kind of read on me at all. In addition, many of his posts up until this point (not to mention quite a few afterward) are pointless one-liners, or just generally non-contributing. The next thing he does is tell austin to read my filter as if I was scum (again, not argument put forward on his part - he is talking as if me being scum is a forgone conclusion). + Show Spoiler +On September 06 2012 07:18 austinmcc wrote: Show nested quote + Looking through his profile, I see his only other game was LIII. So he's at least played, although not with me. But he knows that some of the people in this game played that game, he played with them, he knows they are competent individuals with functioning brains.
It's the first time I've ever seen someone cling to something absolutely wrong in this manner. I have posted paranoid rants in two games, stuck by them for a while as possibilities, gotten upset if people wouldn't consider them as possibilities, but I didn't get like this.
Right now (and if Matt flips scum I will be more certain of the read) I can't help but read the whole thing like this: Matt got caught Ottoxlol tried to save him, without realizing how bad an idea it was Ottoxlol shortly realized how bad an idea it was A decent scum player told him right after he got caught looking very odd that he couldn't back off his defense, because then he'd look even scummier So he went full bore nuts, and that's why he won't listen to anyone or anything
It doesn't feel like he's just obtuse. At some point he'd get the message. It feels like he's clinging to this.
Do me a favor, and go read Gravan's filter as if he were a scum idiot Then he goes on to say that hap is on his scumlist for "coaching" me. + Show Spoiler +On September 06 2012 07:23 Hapahauli wrote: Show nested quote +
Null. Deal with it.
His posts/logic right now could come from either mafia or bad-townie. I don't have enough information to make a decision since hasn't posted much. Fortunately we have 48 hours to make a read on him.
yeah youre on my scum list so is gravan you openly coached him Afterwards, he includes doyouhas in this list. + Show Spoiler +filter On September 06 2012 07:27 imallinson wrote: Show nested quote +
I'd say Gravan looks real scummy right now. He attempted the same thing as Ottox, defending Matt by saying he was probably an assassin, but much more quietly and backed away as soon as he realised it was a bad idea. If anything that looks more scummy than Ottox at the moment.
THANK YOU. Go read Gravan's filter, and tell me if you don't find hapa coaching him? 2nd person I've caught him coaching that looks like scum with him (Doyouhas is the other) His next two posts that mention me go on to mention (offhandedly) the apparently obvious need to have me shot by a vig. Further, if you read his filter he is very non-comittal on the otto-defending-matt-and-generally-acting-scummy issue. His posts are passively worded and just softly agree with the flow of the thread at the time. At this point he has contributed very little and people are starting to notice. So he does what any scum would in that situation and makes a case. The problem is, and what makes the case seem really scummy, the case reads like it is there just to be there, to look like he is contributing. It seems to be entirely based on the fact that BM hasn't contributed much yet which Gravan is more guilty of himself. It reeks of OMGUS. The rest of his few posts are trying to defend this terrible case on BM and some vague mentions of being suspicious of DrH.
I don't think you have enough there to actually get someone lynched. Correct me if I am wrong, but your strongest argument right there is the soft defense of matt + low contribution? If so, I think you need a better case, because a few people soft defended matt and not many of them have been very useful so far.
The only thing Gravan has yet to answer for is why he voted for mattchew when his biggest theory was that he was an assassin. I've gone over his filter and have not foudn anything.
Regarding Bill Murray, he is a weird player I can't figure anything out of yet. He mostly hints at contributing asking questions as if we were to guess his thoughts, and occasionally actually says something. This can be both a townie trying to confirm his theories by fishing it out of others, or a scum not wanting to commit to any real case. I don't think he should be the focus right now.
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On September 07 2012 00:52 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2012 23:02 DarthPunk wrote: ... You have not answered me previously so I will ask again. Why are you so intent on defending who you seem to believe to be town Otto? Especially when you have leapt all over other players for far less scummy actions? There is no scum motivation. Think about what the objectives of hard-defending a teammate as mafia are. The goal of hard-defending a teammate is to prevent their lynch. It’s pretty clear that defending someone after they have 20-something votes on them is not going to prevent said lynch, so how can it be a mafia objective? It’s not a mafia objective, it’s screamingly bad townie. By contrast, If the lynch was close between two candidates, hard-defending makes sense from a mafia perspective. It’s not smart, but there’s mafia-motive. Regarding the whole “Mattchew was stupid therefore Ottox could be stupid mafia” – that’s a load of BS. As stated above, there’s a huge difference between stupid and mafia-motivated stupid. So as for your questions: I don’t find Ottox scummy. I see a lot of town motivation (even if stupid) behind his actions.
Yes there might be! It would fit his meta as posting without thinking! The first instinct a scum would have is defending his little buddy. Nevertheless, you CANNOT use that as an argument to lower suspicion on someone. It boils down to WIFOM, how do you know that he didn't want you to think that? This exactly what I did, as scum, in XIV, I tried to desperately voteswitch on YH last minute thinking it would make me seem townie, but it had the extreme opposite effect. It can easily be both things, so no conclusion can be drawn from his actions.
The reason I am inclined to think it goes on the scummier side of the fence is because of his meta, of how he just go ahead and sends posts without thinking about them. I am not convinced he is scum (I was after the "scumslip", but as you pointed out, it might have been meaningless as it implied having four mafia), but right now I am convinced that he is our best lynch. I don't think your case on Milton has enough on him to a point where he seems more scummy than otto.
Not at this moment anyways. Can you explain this point in made on him: A couple of questions he never pursues? I don't recall this from your posts. Also, why is When backing down from bad case, he passively questions another player pointed out to him w/out taking a stance" scum-motivated?
Also, if you want to include not going after his scumreads, making bad contributions, and general lurkiness, why do you still choose him over Mav? I personally think mav seems scummier because, unlike milton, he didn't even bother making a case on anyone. To me, that's scummier than making a bad case, as townies do it all the time.
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@Hapa Well, we're reading differently then. You insist that him going up against 20 votes makes him townier, I insist I don't think it makes a difference. I'm no expert on the term WIFOM, but you are drawing conclusions based on what mafia would or wouldn't do. But you are done discussing him, so whatever.
Misinformation to me is most likely a mistake. Once he realized it, he pulled back. Would be the same reaction if he was a townie who realized he made a bad case. I don't read this as scummy as you do, especially, like you said, since it was in D1.
Milton is doing the bare minimum to act like he's contributing. His bad case (regardless of it being against me or not) doesn't help him. Also, his case was filled with misinformation as opposed to bad logic. The latter is townie, while the former is not. It's consistent with scum trying to contribute without actually contributing.
Oh, so now he's acting he is contributing and not genuinely trying to just because you have your eyes on him? Why can't he be just trying to contribute, but doing a poor job at it? Why is this preferable over someone who is contributing jack shit? Sure it can be scum acting like he's contributing, but to me this is so ridiculous to go on based on a sea of how many other players are making weak and useless contributions. Imo, the pillar that separates him from the rest, in your view, is that he "fabricated" evidence, correct me if I'm wrong. I say this could very easily have come from a lack of reading, much like goodkarma's post. But you won't even consider that possibility.
Also, he attacked one of the most active townies. If I agreed with your Oxtott argument, I would even add: why would a mafia go ahead and do that, sticking his neck out instead of sheeping or picking some random lurker or going for an easier case?
I think you are overextending yourself on him. Discussion with you regarding him is useless at the moment as you will just attack him no matter what I or anyone says. Don't get me wrong, you may be absolutely balls out right regarding your read, but I just can't see how you would ever choose him over ox based on a "scum wouldn't do this" argument.
We need some other opinions here, our vigi(s) could use more of them.
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@Hopeless1der Read your case as well. The strongest points you had on him, I found, were:
1) His preemptive defense. I don't find reason for him to have defended himself like that, and his whole "received message via PM" seems fake as hell. He didn't have any posts displaying doubt before he supposedly sent the message, which is weird. 2) His inference on "blue fishing". I can't figure out, reading some of the previous posts, what he meant by that. Could that be perhaps what he was actually trying to do? 3) Possible scumslip on "the`n we find the rest of the scumteam". As if he was 100% convinced matt would flip scum. If he was actually 100% convinced, why would he bother explaining his vote, if it looked strange?
The rest of the post is just happenstance, could be anything. Looking forward to his defense.
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On September 07 2012 03:12 Hapahauli wrote: @ Z-Boson
I believe the misinformation distinguishes him from the other lurkers in a scummy way.
It's interesting that you bring up the whole "attacking active townie" thing, because the post he attacked me for was on page 2 (out of 6) on my filter. Seems pretty silly to determine who and who isn't an active townie only 2 hours into the game? For all he knows, I could go lurker-king after his accusation. Why should attacking a vocal townie or not determine whether or not he's mafia? Mafia-objectives are to cast illogical-suspicion to push for lynches; this is the core of their win-condition.
Anywho, we can agree to disagree. Arguing will get us nowhere if neither of our scumreads are posting.
You were saying he wanted to act townie. I don't think as mafia, attacking an active member is the best way to do that.
Well, I didn't realize it was that early in the game. Anyways, I said this more to draw a parallel between your arguments regarding what mafia would and wouldn't do, but I'm fed up with that discussion as I'm guessing you are.
Agreed, then. Shifting over, what is your take on H1's case against forumite?
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Well just woke up from a 14-hour hibernation Looks like I have a shitton to go through with. Before I do that, though, one thing
Hapa, I disagree completely with your first point on him. He confirmed his vote AFTER the mod confirmation, and the comments he made regarding him voting on mattchew:
On September 04 2012 16:20 BroodKingEXE wrote: About Mattchew (who I think is town): Here's my breakdown of the situation : Matt's roleclaimed and given two reasons he claimed to avoid mislynch and/or draw a mafia shot. At first glance the roleclaim seemed like a great idea, but as I thought about it there were just too many holes. My initial thought was that it was a good idea and that could have been Matt's (based on the reasoning too). Another problem I find with lynching him is that what he has done (roleclaim) isn't verifiable until he is lynched. Right now its a coinflip and I haven't seen anything else that suggests he is scum. Fakeclaims aren't good basis for a lynch, they're not even able to be confirmed until the lynch, so I cant vote for him unless his posting sounds scummy.
Was done BEFORE. You can't just dismiss this as if "he wasn't expecting a mod confirmation", because to be honest, neither was I.
I'll read his filter considering the second part of your post and see what I think.
Also, note how three-four people jumped in the bandwagon without mentioning this. I would think that this flip-flop being based on Palmar's confirmation would be fairly obvious...
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Actually, what is MORE suspicious than his flip-flop is how he didn't address BC when he tried to soft-defend mattchew. Here is what I'm thinking.
1) BC basically claims something to be the truth, and is heavily insistent on it. This something is enough to insta-lynch Mattchew without a second thought. BK agrees with this, because he voted on Mattchew after the confirmation.
2) On this same post:
On September 04 2012 16:20 BroodKingEXE wrote: About Mattchew (who I think is town): Here's my breakdown of the situation : Matt's roleclaimed and given two reasons he claimed to avoid mislynch and/or draw a mafia shot. At first glance the roleclaim seemed like a great idea, but as I thought about it there were just too many holes. My initial thought was that it was a good idea and that could have been Matt's (based on the reasoning too). Another problem I find with lynching him is that what he has done (roleclaim) isn't verifiable until he is lynched. Right now its a coinflip and I haven't seen anything else that suggests he is scum. Fakeclaims aren't good basis for a lynch, they're not even able to be confirmed until the lynch, so I cant vote for him unless his posting sounds scummy.
What holes? If he thinks the roleclaim has many holes, why can't I find them, and why does he completely disregard this later on saying that it is a coinflip?
So, from 1), it is absolutely certain that he agrees with the implication that if BC is right, then Mattchew should be auto-lynched. So, based on this post, he obviously thinks that BC is wrong. If so, why doesn't he bother convincing BC why he is wrong instead of completely ignoring him and making a bad attempt at defending Mattchew?
I can't think Mattchew is innocent without thinking BC is wrong. If I want to defend Mattchew, then I sure as fuck want to confirm that BC is lying.
Will get back with more.
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oh, didn't see that "fakeclaim does not mean insta-lynch" comment.
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I'm going to leave the BKE thing on hold for now, until we hear what he has to say. If he says nothing and doesn't bother scumhunting and gracing us with his thoughts on the game, then my vote will be on him 100%.
Meanwhile, I've done reading the post by Toad, and also took the time to read his filter from LI and what was the "best bus in TL history" he mentioned.
Your post had a ton of stuff to read, and I have some issues and some doubts regarding it. Let's do this.
First off, you post this:
On September 07 2012 03:58 Toadesstern wrote: I really don't like the cases on forumite (or vets in general this game) as they're incredibly far-fetched, which is obvious considering the fact that we're still on d1/n1. That being said I still (somewhat?) agree with the conclusion but I'll post shortly before deadline :p
Can I ask, what conclusion do you agree with? Because the conclusion on the case against forumite is this:
Why does Matt flipping red imply that I'm red as well? Why can't I be continuing to hunt scum? I still think Forumite is scum. My case was not an effort to divert the thread, it was an attempt to focus it. I wasn't around to do so, and feel free to call me scum for not following through before, but wait and see, you'll run out of steam on that front in a moment.
But that doesn't make sense with your "I don't like the case on forumite". Please do explain what conclusion you meant. Now, onward to your (seemingly classic) motherfuckin wall of text.
On September 07 2012 06:59 Toadesstern wrote:Toads very important thoughts mostly about VETs and whatever else I consider important so far I'm doing this post because I'm probably going to die tonight. I consider myself a vet and most people probably consider me a vet as well but unlike BC I usually don't draw protection from medics for two reasons I don't need to go into detail right now, although the reasoning becomes apparant after reading the whole thing :p First important topic: VETs in this game - Forumite
- BlackMamba24 (referred to as DrH from now on to not confuse him with BM)
- BloodyC0bbler
- Bill Murray
- Toadesstern/myself :p
That's my take on who's a vet in this game. A lot of people think it's hard to analyse vets to a point that they almost got a mental blockade when it comes to vets, that's why I'm going to post some about those 4/5 although I don't have anything major yet, though I've got a conclusion I'm quite comfortable with. First things first, I did this post ( + Show Spoiler [click me!] +On September 06 2012 07:40 Toadesstern wrote: Bam. Watcher on people like BC and me please.
Mafia will want to hit that. ) on purpose trying to get some reactions, mainly from vets. Simply put I was trying to rub a subtile "sup guys I'm comfirmed town now" into peoples faces to see what they're going to say. Why did I do that? 1) Yes, why did you do that? Let's see. Right now I'm looking for an explanation as to why you wanted to hear what vets had to say regarding your town claimI am an incredible controversial guy and a shitton of people are scared like crazy about me because I'm apparently unreadable according to them. I'm a little like BC-junior, or maybe WBG-junior in that regard because people tell me I'm looking pro-town no matter of alignment every single game. So usually I'm getting the same old crap about me every game "Toad is looking townish, but that's a null-tell because Toad always looks that way". Take AC for example, Radfield actually told his scumbuddies to just attack me for looking good because I'm always looking good. WBG called the play VE and I did in LI "the best bus TL has ever seen", he said I'm unreadable in PTP, I totally destroyed town in magic and surely everyone remembers the "Annul game" (sup palmer :p). Except for PyourPoison I destroyed pretty much every town I played against as mafia and every single game I was called a townie by the vast majority of the game while telling people what to do. That's the reason I'm getting these bullshit arguments like "Toad is unreadable" / "Toad is looking town but that means nothing" all the time. No matter if I'm town or mafia and frankly I was expecting to hear something like that from a mafia-player because it's an incredible easy approach to attack someone because you can just say that EVERY single game. Sadly it never happened. However I still ended up getting some reactions although they're minor ones.2*) So you are saying that you were expecting a vet to say you were unreadable etc. etc. and attack you based on it? i.e., had one of the four vets said anything in an aggressive manner, you would have pegged him as scum and attacked him later on?tl;dr / Summary so far:- I am town
- BC is pretty much town
- I highly lean on BM being town giving his style. He attacked me during this night for something he thought to be something. It obviously was nothing but his argument was not the typical "toad is unreadable, BE AFRAID GUYS" fear mongering I get all the time and I doubt a mafia would get in there attacking me the way he did.
That leaves us with Foru and DrH. DrH still feels odd although I can't put my finger on it. Foru feels way to cautios when he's posting. I'm almost certain one of those 2 got to be mafia and considering that my guts are telling me that foru feels cautios I'd rather bet on him being mafia by some degree.3*) So you don't like the cases on foru, you don't say why AND even add that you don't like targeting vets (in the previous post), and your guts are telling you that you would bet on him being mafia despite shitting on the main case against him so far? This all due to your experience with him and your gut feelings?The thing about this is that it's not a clear case. What I've got about those 3 (BM / foru / drH) so far is very minor and not worth making a case about so I'm not going to. However process of elimination is a nice approach for those kind of people and that being said I really doubt BM or BC are mafia. 4*) Ok, this explains why you aren't making cases against them and is being consistent with your "let's not target vets" approach. Since this part of your post mainly deals with vets, I am to assume this pseudo-read on forumite is just a comparative between the vets and not actually a real go-through-with-it suspicion?5**) Just to make it ultra-clear: Now that both DrH and BC are dead, do you think forumite/BM are mafia? People who are not vets but should be a topicOttox: No need to talk about him I guess DoYouHas: He's looking bad when posting but I actually like his answers strongandbig: That guy should be scared as shit about me but he isn't. Not at all. To be precise he's even pretty buddy-ish with me. I think he knows I'm not mafia. Do not like. BroodKingEXE: Weirdest vote from d1. Other than that he's fine but the vote really looks like "let's scatter at least SOMEWHAT, just pretend you forgot to unvote BKE" If Ottox somehow manages to survive the night you've got to lynch him no matter what. It's actually quite possible that we've got vigs thinking "well we probably got a bunch of vigs who want to shoot him so I don't need to as well. No need to quadrupel-stack him". I've been in that situation as well and ended up shooting my #2 reads instead of my #1 reads (AC comes to mind ) because I thought someone else would take care of the #1 read anyways because the guy was pretty much confirmed mafia. Ottox definitly is the best lynch if he survives. BKE & S+B are mentioned because I want people to check their filter as well. I'm not set on lynching them yet but they're the best candidates I've got besides the "usual" ones. I'd rather not have people just forget about them.6*) So now we've had a full case on BKE, and people are starting to sheep, what do you think on BKE? You mentioned him here as being fishy, and now I'm guessing you should be more than inclined to lynch him, yes? That being said I think it's quite likely I'm going to be dead in a couple of minutes so I'm posting this to give a couple of thoughts in case I'm not around any more. They're obviously all pretty vague because it's d1/n1 after all and thereforet it's just a summary. That means you've got to check filters yourself to understand what I'm talking about and wether or not you agree with me. Regretted not doing that in WoF when I was shot n1 as well ...
Right now we're having quite a luxury problem though: We're having to many people doing cases about everyone and their dog. That's totally fine in itself but you guys need to make sure you got some focus tomorrow. Talking about a lot of people is fine but if everyone's like a little gonzaw we'll have 25 people screaming "NO MY CASE IS THE BEST" and mafia has an easy time to pick a fitting case out of the 15915815 existing ones and will push that one. So don't spam the thread too much. This post I just did is already a wall-of-text although I'm only scratching the surface of things when talking about stuff. So keep that in mind tomorrow. 7) LOL at you/gonzaw in LI. He was extremely paranoid... funny thing was he was correct
Ok, so I've referenced the writings in red so you have an easier time answering. The quantity of asterisks in each number indicate how much I would like an answer from you. Btw, you sure have a high opinion of yourself. Also, I forgot to reference this, but since I do not want to change the whole numbering now, also, please answer this: 5.5*) Why should S&B be scared shitless of you?
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On September 08 2012 07:12 grush57 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2012 06:52 Toadesstern wrote: grush is mafia. BKE's probably; if BKE's not mafia it's probably foru?
But I had almost no time today as friends came over so I'll have to reread things tomorrow. Haven't even read what happened the last 4 hours so far except for an incredible fast read. Kill me it will help the town I promise :D
Wtf do you mean by this?
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If you are town stop clogging the thread with unhelpful garbage k thx
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He's saying that he visited BC and got back GK, because GK was the only one who visited him, when he exploded over BC. I'm not too comfortable lynching a watcher this early in the game, should he be telling the truth. To the vets: how common is there for there to be a watcher in a game of this size? Because if he is lying right now, the real watcher will screw him over later in the game, no? I'll think more about his claim, it seems way too convenient.
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