Ok, first my vote so thats clear to the rest of you: #Vote Gravan Because - I already mentioned him in my previous post - His defense was, imo, lacking - The main voting targets are Mav and SS, which I already explained I dont wanna vote on. I'll also add to Mav that his defense was much better than Gravans (mainly this post) + Show Spoiler +On September 14 2012 09:00 Maverick32x wrote:Read through the case on me- There is a LOT of tunneling going on.... Also why are people STILL bringing up Matt?? My 'soft defense' occurred prior to any confirmation that he was lying... once that was confirmed.. I switched. Simple enough. As for my "blaming the lurkers is an easy strategy"- There is something unique about those top 3 that I find is different than just 'lurking'.... there is something about the frequency of posts and the disappearance of them.... I know thats not the concrete answer you guys want, so I'll try to get some 'science' to back that feeling up. Voting me is a mistake. I am a plain boring vanilla town. I just really can't understand how ShiaoPi is not scum to more people? Okay, his 'timezone' presents as an issue to discussion.... and I'll even move past the lurking to be more specific in his posts. Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 12:17 ShiaoPi wrote:On September 04 2012 12:13 BroodKingEXE wrote: Actually, Mattchew why should they claim now? Can't they just wait till its pointed out? no...that kind of defeats the purpose Lets bring it ALL the way back... He is backing up Matt's encouragement for others to claim. How is this LESS scummy than me soft defending someone who I didn't know I was lying? Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 15:17 ShiaoPi wrote: No disrespect meant to you rewok, but what the fuck is a list full of null-reads supposed to do? It is on the first hand piling up the the thread like crazy and secondly it gives us 0 information...you are simply rehashing what happened in the thread so far. That entire post can be summarized into: "I have no clue about you guys, mind helping to lynch scum?"
Seriously.....dafuq Right, Rewok's decision to do this sucks. Doesn't seem like Rewok and him are connected based off that post. I highlight this post mainly due to the relationship that is seen here. Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 10:39 ShiaoPi wrote: can you just shut up ottox, it gets annoying to see you harping around the same obvious nonsense all thread long.... Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 10:55 ShiaoPi wrote:@Ottox: thanks, have a good night and just cut it >_> @Hapa: Besides the ones that have been called out already (e.g. Ottox, goodkarma, Milton, all leaning scum for me, maybe with the exception of Ottox...) I do not really have some at the moment. Austin is way more inactive from the town-austin I know but that's a kind of weak meta argument right now. Also I am still waiting on Gravan On September 05 2012 09:38 Gravan wrote:
The post where I make my comments on the information currently present (as in, not to do with the matt bandwagon) is coming up later. I just wanted to put down somehing somewhat solid so thanI can start to develop a post hostory, watery as it might be. Both of these posts were made prior to Ottox's (town) death. ALSO, His statement of Ottox (town), Goodkarama(scum) and Milton (personally I think town) are leaning scum... but he 'excuses' Ottox.... LIKELY because he knows that Ottox is on the chopping block. Also, as pointed out previously, it is typical for scum to post a list, and sprinkle in scum buddies. Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 16:53 ShiaoPi wrote:On September 05 2012 12:43 Z-BosoN wrote:
@Shiaopi Your meta is a little off from Dwarf Mafia, where you were town and had much more contribuitive posts in day 1. When will your internet be fixed? Internet is unstable as of now, dunno if it will get better. If you are concerned about my meta you should probably read TL Mafia LV instead, since dwarf fortress was a mini, but anyway. Gravan has gone to sleep apparently without doing his promised post, which is something I really don't like... Comments made about his lack of meta- these are covered up by "Internet problems" However, observations made about his meta. Show nested quote +On September 06 2012 11:23 ShiaoPi wrote: EBWOP:
I just woke up and read through. Matt flipped red as everyone (bar Ottox) expected, so I'll be talking about him first. To be honest I thought for a while that Ottoxlol is just bad townie, but having caught up with the thread, naaah he is like 99% red. Hopefully a vig shoots him tonight, so he's gone.
Also Gravan has finally done some contribution beyond Mattchew stuff, but I am not impressed at all. It feels like it was a case for sake of writing a case on somebody to get off some pressure which has started on you. He should either be a town kill at night or lynched tomorrow if it stays this way with all the points in thread already.
Ending the post with some comments on the cases we got this night so far. DYH brought up Hopeless1der as a candidate. Reading Hopeless' filter there is some merit to DYH's accusation, but I am not entirely sold on him being scum.
Hapa also brought out quite a switch from DrH/Blackmamba in opinion so I am interested in hearing his answer to it as well. Looked a lot like his town play though so maybe he got some good explanation for it. Also shouldn't lvdr be modkilled by now? no posts at all.
Him and lvdr are likely not connected- again, just another relationship point. Also, Hapa becomes his new target at this point. Similar to Ottox, he starts to pick up speed on targeting him. -He goes into a string of 1 liners at this point- likely due to my confrontation with him.- But then Hapa makes a decent post attacking him. On September 09 2012 12:44 Hapahauli wrote: 1) ShiaoPi has a reasonably active town-meta. ShiaoPi has no scum meta. 2) ShiaoPi is hardcore lurking this game, "internet issues" cited, but were not mentioned pre-game (odd, considering severity). His activity is very different from his 6 town games.
He certainly hasn't posted anything that makes me think he's town. Some other newer players have posts that show effort, but ShiaoPi has shown none. As far as I'm concerned, the above makes him scummy. If he'd like to defend himself and convince me otherwise, he should take the opportunity to do so.
Should I hold your hand too, or will that suffice?I don't want to post the WHOLE quote from Shiao- you can look it up, but again with an excuse of internet problems and a post pretty much just defending himself from Hapa who attacks him pretty hard.... Show nested quote +On September 09 2012 19:27 ShiaoPi wrote: I would see Hapa as town. His reasoning was solid for most parts and I can understand his frustration with the game since he led a mislynch. Also his "selectiveness" reads to me as focusing on one read at a time which does not sound too bad with me. Got to go now though Similar with Ottox- ShiaoPi decides to absolve Hapa and declare him TOWN. oh ya... Hapa dies that night..... .... .... ..... Seems similar to the Ottox? Ottox attacks him.. Dies... Hapa attacks him... Dies... Something tells me this is more than just a bad feeling.... Get your votes off me you dummies. Vote Scum. Vote ShiaoPi.MAVERICK OUT! And this: + Show Spoiler +On September 14 2012 10:18 Maverick32x wrote:Doop-de-doop, I'll look at Grav. Before I dig into filters, my gut feeling of Grav is that he has been on the side lines throughout the game and that he's a new player. Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 05:41 Gravan wrote: This post is passive and is just here to give you guys some information about me.
I am reading through all the filters and will be making a real contributive post sometime soon. I haven't been keeping up with this thread as well as I ought to have. For some reason, I can't seem to access the voting link from my phone - I am trying to work out when the vote is due, but I will be submitting one in a few hours after reading and pondering, once I get back to my computer. I hope I am not missing a deadline because I really would not like to be modkilled so early on.
I am done traveling after today, so I will be properly active very shortly. Sorry for lurking and not contributing.
Again, sorry for the spam, hello and expect to start hearing from me. Passive. Very passive and apologetic. This sounds like subtle fear of being 'found out' (scummy) Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 09:38 Gravan wrote:First, the straightforward part. It seems to me that Matt is most likely an assassin, or a very careless player. As many have said before me, there is no case for him to do what he did from a town perspective. To me, it seems that if he were mafia or town, we would likely have seen at least some kind of attempt at an explanation - either to strengthen his fellow mafia by giving them 'towncred' as they jump on his bandwagon or to try to convince us we are making a mistake as a town blue. As an assassin, he could just be seeing his end and giving up - this is of course moot if he decides to put in his piece later. Since he is apparently not a random newbie (who is a random newb, anyway ?), and clearly likes to be an active player, it shouts assasinto me. Since it is day 1 and we only have so much information, we essentially have to lynch him anyway (even if we were nearly certain he is an assassin. At this time, I'll be throwing my vote his way. The post where I make my comments on the information currently present (as in, not to do with the matt bandwagon) is coming up later. I just wanted to put down somehing somewhat solid so thanI can start to develop a post hostory, watery as it might be. Wants to blend in. Still apologizing. Pretty bad first couple posts. Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 13:30 Gravan wrote:On September 05 2012 13:00 Hapahauli wrote: Why is he voting Mattchew if he's convinced he's an assassin? Hell that post doesn't really explain why he's even voting - "we essentially have to lynch him anyway" - wut? This is my fault for wording this sentence poorly. Although I am still leaning towards Matt being an assassin, he certainly looks all kinds of scummy as well. There isn't enough information at this point to lynch someone else - this lynch will, at worst, be neutral. I feel that, unless someone who has better evidence against them comes up (unlikely) we are better off to make this lynch and gain the information (Matt's flip) than sit idle. I am just asserting that I personally think he is an assassin. I'm done on the whole Matt issue now; still working on making my posts more constructive and less parrot-y. If Matt flips scum, Ottox and Toad really need to be looked at. Ottox has been making his bizarre crusade about the potential innocence of Matt, as everyone knows. To me, Toad's last few posts have seemed a little aimless and very personally aggressive with little content. He spends a considerable amount of time shutting down and pointing at Ottox (who is looking obviously scummy or very misguided) in a well written post, then shifts to personal attacks and negligent remarks. Sleep time for me now; I'll actually have some rest by tomorrow and won't be travelling. This was my perspective as well when I played the Portal Mafia, which is making me wonder if a lot of this is kind of 'new town' sort of stuff? My perspective was "Kill everyone that is not town" I didn't care if you were 3rd party, 4th party or mafia.... if you weren't green... you needed to die. So his thought that- "Well, he's 3rd party, so we're good to lynch him" makes a lot of sense to me. He connects Ottox and Toad loosely... but I think he digs in a bit with his reads considering his post history. Show nested quote +On September 06 2012 10:16 Gravan wrote:I think Bill Murray is scum. Also, Hapahauli, what is your read on Gravan? Scum or town? I don't want you using the word Null. Pick one. Scum or town? Consider yourself having a Gun to your head. This is the first time he mentions me. At this point, he hasn't put forward any kind of read on me at all. In addition, many of his posts up until this point (not to mention quite a few afterward) are pointless one-liners, or just generally non-contributing. The next thing he does is tell austin to read my filter as if I was scum (again, not argument put forward on his part - he is talking as if me being scum is a forgone conclusion). + Show Spoiler +On September 06 2012 07:18 austinmcc wrote: Show nested quote + Looking through his profile, I see his only other game was LIII. So he's at least played, although not with me. But he knows that some of the people in this game played that game, he played with them, he knows they are competent individuals with functioning brains.
It's the first time I've ever seen someone cling to something absolutely wrong in this manner. I have posted paranoid rants in two games, stuck by them for a while as possibilities, gotten upset if people wouldn't consider them as possibilities, but I didn't get like this.
Right now (and if Matt flips scum I will be more certain of the read) I can't help but read the whole thing like this: Matt got caught Ottoxlol tried to save him, without realizing how bad an idea it was Ottoxlol shortly realized how bad an idea it was A decent scum player told him right after he got caught looking very odd that he couldn't back off his defense, because then he'd look even scummier So he went full bore nuts, and that's why he won't listen to anyone or anything
It doesn't feel like he's just obtuse. At some point he'd get the message. It feels like he's clinging to this.
Do me a favor, and go read Gravan's filter as if he were a scum idiot Then he goes on to say that hap is on his scumlist for "coaching" me. + Show Spoiler +On September 06 2012 07:23 Hapahauli wrote: Show nested quote +
Null. Deal with it.
His posts/logic right now could come from either mafia or bad-townie. I don't have enough information to make a decision since hasn't posted much. Fortunately we have 48 hours to make a read on him.
yeah youre on my scum list so is gravan you openly coached him Afterwards, he includes doyouhas in this list. + Show Spoiler +filter On September 06 2012 07:27 imallinson wrote: Show nested quote +
I'd say Gravan looks real scummy right now. He attempted the same thing as Ottox, defending Matt by saying he was probably an assassin, but much more quietly and backed away as soon as he realised it was a bad idea. If anything that looks more scummy than Ottox at the moment.
THANK YOU. Go read Gravan's filter, and tell me if you don't find hapa coaching him? 2nd person I've caught him coaching that looks like scum with him (Doyouhas is the other) His next two posts that mention me go on to mention (offhandedly) the apparently obvious need to have me shot by a vig. Further, if you read his filter he is very non-comittal on the otto-defending-matt-and-generally-acting-scummy issue. His posts are passively worded and just softly agree with the flow of the thread at the time. I ALMOST like this post. He target BM which is cool. Very straight forward, non-apologetic. The only problem is, its only because he's being called out and feels threatened. So again with the fear response. Show nested quote +On September 06 2012 10:39 Gravan wrote:On September 06 2012 10:31 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On September 06 2012 10:26 Gravan wrote:On September 06 2012 10:18 Z-BosoN wrote:On September 06 2012 10:16 Gravan wrote:I think Bill Murray is scum. Also, Hapahauli, what is your read on Gravan? Scum or town? I don't want you using the word Null. Pick one. Scum or town? Consider yourself having a Gun to your head. This is the first time he mentions me. At this point, he hasn't put forward any kind of read on me at all. In addition, many of his posts up until this point (not to mention quite a few afterward) are pointless one-liners, or just generally non-contributing. The next thing he does is tell austin to read my filter as if I was scum (again, not argument put forward on his part - he is talking as if me being scum is a forgone conclusion). + Show Spoiler +On September 06 2012 07:18 austinmcc wrote: Show nested quote + Looking through his profile, I see his only other game was LIII. So he's at least played, although not with me. But he knows that some of the people in this game played that game, he played with them, he knows they are competent individuals with functioning brains.
It's the first time I've ever seen someone cling to something absolutely wrong in this manner. I have posted paranoid rants in two games, stuck by them for a while as possibilities, gotten upset if people wouldn't consider them as possibilities, but I didn't get like this.
Right now (and if Matt flips scum I will be more certain of the read) I can't help but read the whole thing like this: Matt got caught Ottoxlol tried to save him, without realizing how bad an idea it was Ottoxlol shortly realized how bad an idea it was A decent scum player told him right after he got caught looking very odd that he couldn't back off his defense, because then he'd look even scummier So he went full bore nuts, and that's why he won't listen to anyone or anything
It doesn't feel like he's just obtuse. At some point he'd get the message. It feels like he's clinging to this.
Do me a favor, and go read Gravan's filter as if he were a scum idiot Then he goes on to say that hap is on his scumlist for "coaching" me. + Show Spoiler +On September 06 2012 07:23 Hapahauli wrote: Show nested quote +
Null. Deal with it.
His posts/logic right now could come from either mafia or bad-townie. I don't have enough information to make a decision since hasn't posted much. Fortunately we have 48 hours to make a read on him.
yeah youre on my scum list so is gravan you openly coached him Afterwards, he includes doyouhas in this list. + Show Spoiler +filter On September 06 2012 07:27 imallinson wrote: Show nested quote +
I'd say Gravan looks real scummy right now. He attempted the same thing as Ottox, defending Matt by saying he was probably an assassin, but much more quietly and backed away as soon as he realised it was a bad idea. If anything that looks more scummy than Ottox at the moment.
THANK YOU. Go read Gravan's filter, and tell me if you don't find hapa coaching him? 2nd person I've caught him coaching that looks like scum with him (Doyouhas is the other) His next two posts that mention me go on to mention (offhandedly) the apparently obvious need to have me shot by a vig. Further, if you read his filter he is very non-comittal on the otto-defending-matt-and-generally-acting-scummy issue. His posts are passively worded and just softly agree with the flow of the thread at the time. This is the worst case I've ever seen. Typically, when one argues against another, a counter-argument has to be presented. Since it appears as though I am on some people's chopping blocks, some discussion could be useful. Just denouncing my case gets town no-where. You chose a poor person to analyze. Bm is like chezinu and incredibly hard to pin down normally. You typically have to rely on things like scumslips to catch either of them or take look at the overall effort they put into a game. Now given that. You're analysis is very lacking, and looks like cherry picking. You don't include examples or even a link to his filter to prove your case. It seems rushed and made by someone backed into a corner. If you are town you should have no reason to feel rushed, you have plenty of time to post your thoughts. First off, while I understand a player's meta is something to consider, I really have no idea what you are talking about with respect to how Bill plays or whoever this chezinu is. I included at least three examples. See those quotes/spoilers? All of them include quotes from Bill Murray. As to being rushed, well, I am just trying to not lurk. Apparently that is a bad thing to do - working on putting my thoughts out there and trying to stimulate discussion. I like this post actually. It speaks to me well. I also am not up to speed on the "meta" of other players... This indicates to me that he really IS a new player.. trying to find his way and get the swing of things. He wants to put his thoughts out and get something going, but seems unclear as to how to do it. Okay, as I'm going through the filters from this point to the end of his page 1- he all of a sudden starts to pick up a LOT more momentum. He is being more assertive with his claims and is getting more involved. Here are some posts. Show nested quote +On September 09 2012 01:02 Gravan wrote:On September 09 2012 00:50 BroodKingEXE wrote:On September 09 2012 00:26 austinmcc wrote:On September 09 2012 00:21 Shady Sands wrote: Thanks.
Ergo, we have no way to verify BKE's claim... Right. Either he's a watcher OR he chose a fakeclaim so bad it could be disproven pretty much by flips alone. And it wasn't a pressure claim, he was getting called out all yesterday, then claimed while nobody was doing anything. I'm currently believing the claim since it seems like a giant risk to take when you're already down 2. Heck, why go with a terrible fake claim when you could name anything?
BM, where you at? We discussed scum having/not having some sort of leader earlier. I'd like to hear your updated thoughts. Ottoxlol flipped town, so it's not a case where mattchew/ottox/gravan all messed up and looked scummy D1. 2 vets died, so they're not options as some sort of mafia general, commanding the troops. Now we've got this BKE claim. Do you believe that claim? Are there players you could see saying, "hey you, go make a terrible fakeclaim that's so bad people will have trouble thinking it's from scum"? I don't see BKE, if scum, going that route, because you don't really gain anything compared to a better fake claim. I have to be honest, Im just laying it out. In XIII Newbie, I was One-Shot and didn't claim and everyone said I should've. I don't want to make the same mistake. I know me getting GK back is useless, but I need town to know what you guys will be lynching. Medic should not claim definetly(if we have one and they acted), else we both die. I picked BC primarily for the reason that Matt was his first pick and he was using the lynch to look around for other scum. He was speaking with really solid logic and had a few scum reads already. DrH was under a bit of fire, so I wasn't sure if scum was going to let that sit and develop. I didn't think Toad was active enough to be killed that night, but he had by then moved to my town list due to his response to my case. Just to make it clear I think Shady and Mav are scum I would actually like to hear what you suspect happened on N1 - who did what, from your point of view. What was the scenario? Also, unless I am missing it, did you actually make any kind of case against Shady? Show nested quote +On September 09 2012 01:50 Gravan wrote: I still have reservations about this switch. According to what I can gather from this thread, Grush always acts like an idiot. This gets him mislynched often. We're lynching him, instead of BKE (who, until his meager roleclaim and sudden throwing out of cases) was under intense suspicion and getting wagon'd.
So far as I can tell, the logic goes roughly as follows:
BKE is very suspicious, but his blue claim isn't out of the question. Lynching a blue would be very detrimental to the town.
Grush is suspicious (alternatively idiotic and anti-town, depending on who is talking) and non-contributive besides. Lynching Grush is, at worse, a mislynch (we won't miss his discussions as a townie) and at best a mafia lynch.
This is all just a little sudden for me. What happened to those strong suspicions regarding BKE's earlier flip-flopping? Can one of you vote-switchers explain to me how that behaviour is now negated/lessened because of his role-claim? Show nested quote +On September 10 2012 03:52 Gravan wrote:There is a lot of "in this game x player played like this" or, "y is a veteran, therefore the following is probable...". While I think these are fine as supporting arguments (since past tendencies/experience are relevant things to consider) I feel like all this talk of veterans and meta play is clouding and overtaking what people have actually said and how people have actually been playing. It could be a mafia tactic to draw away from the discussion, or it could just be a little too much focus on outside/less relevant factors, but either way I encourage everyone to focus more on filters from this game and less on filters from other games. Also: On September 10 2012 02:56 strongandbig wrote:##vote: toad for mayorNo but actually, you bring up a very good point. I played in WoF and Forumite this game does remind me of his play from that game. That said, I think austin's case on z-boson is pretty good as well - he's hedging a lot, and his reasoning around the BKE vote really doesn't make much sense. So toad and austin, since both of you are pretty decent players and regardless of your own alignments are gonna be pretty good at mafia logic, what do you make of each others' cases? One last thing - I don't have all that much time so I was looking through some shorter filters. What do people think of hopeless1der? His filter can be described as - kind of a scummy waffle around the mattchew lynch - tunneling forumite Now, on the one hand I think forumite is a decent scum candidate; but seriously I don't think hopeless has talked about anything else for more than one or two lines. This is a contradiction for me from past games, where hopeless's filter has looked well-thought-out and where it's easy to get a town read on him. Also I feel like there might be a contradiction here: On September 05 2012 06:18 Hopeless1der wrote:On September 05 2012 06:09 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On September 05 2012 05:57 Bill Murray wrote:On September 04 2012 09:36 Forumite wrote:On September 04 2012 09:12 Mattchew wrote: I am a nosy neighbor. Anyone else with this role should insta-claim as well.
The reason people policy lynch people like BM and Grush is because they get by into later in the game because they are unreadable. This is because they barely actually play the game and if you end up in lylo with one of them left, you've basically already lost. I completely understand anyone wanting to policy lynch them, but we should also not allow them to be off the hook for some sort of scum read during the day.
That being said, I remember thinking to myself that I don't hate BM's play in the last few games I have been in with him. I do not want to policy lynch today.
Why would you claim this? You eliminated yourself as a possible blue from scums list of townies, and it´s not like you doing this eliminates you as a scum suspect. If someone see you visiting a player who dies the we´re lynching you anyway. check this scummy post from forumite 1) misreads the setup 2) attacks him with a smirk for the claim, which looks scummy as shit 3) takes the visiting thing a step further, saying "if they die" which clears a ton of scum roles... forumite is scum with a role FoS: Forumite Only real issue I have with this is that he didn't misread the setup to my knowledge. The setup was completely ambiguous on the Nosy Neighbor and required a mod to come in and clarify the situation. Aside from that I do get how you made the connections you did although he doesn't neccesarily have a scum role as my understanding of the setup would be mafia choose who makes a night KP given that no mafia can be responsible for more than 1 shot according to that mafia KP change. Thus any "non visiting mafia" would be "cleared" from suspicion. A mafia with a role can both use his action and take a shot. As an example, the mafia Vig can 'visit' and shoot two different players in the same night. I don't follow how the Scum KP mechanics make it unlikely that Forumite (or any potential scum) would NOT have a role, or for example, how a goon who stays home is cleared. On September 08 2012 16:06 Hopeless1der wrote: Unless someone claims a vig shot on GK, you're supposed to be dead right now. That was worse than Mattchew's claim. insta-reaction was to throw water on bke's claim, even though he already knew a scum with a role could also deliver a factional kp. Now, I also didn't believe bke's claim, but it's not just that he didn't believe it - he discounted it with a reason that he already knew wasn't airtight. Not sure how bad of a contradiction that is but I think it is a contradiction. I do get the feeling (as I implied/made light of earlier) that Hopeless' claim was a little too absolute. I would like to hear a little more of Hopeless so that I can get a bit more of a read on him - especially since his favourite target (forumite) is in the spotlight/sights right now. Ok, this next post I think is REALLY important. Show nested quote +On September 12 2012 05:48 Gravan wrote:On September 12 2012 05:39 Forumite wrote:On September 12 2012 04:27 Hopeless1der wrote:If you're going to respond, could you not cherry pick? Forumite, Why should we lynch Z-Boson? Why do you want me to die? Make an effort to explain yourself.
I don´t know, stuff you´ve done. I´m not as sure on you as on Z-boson and BM though, and sometimes I get the feeling you are more likely town. I have 80 minutes left in the game, why do you want me to spend it on making a case on you? On September 12 2012 04:37 Mementoss wrote:On September 12 2012 04:35 Z-BosoN wrote:Also, eagerly awaiting your case on mav: On September 11 2012 22:12 Mementoss wrote: I am at work and don't have much time. Catching up is hard, from my reading so far I think Maverick is scum and will vote him I read the most recent case on forumite but I just don't see it. Hopefully I can finish filling in the gaps of reading tonight and actually post a worthy post of why maverick is scum. I'm hoping I can make deadline today busy day. When I posted this I was at page 40. I'm at page 59 now. So I still have half the game to catch up on. At this point it won't change whose going to get lynched, but I still have to find out who is scum so I can be helpful day4 Mementoss is SCUM SCUM SCUM! Noone cares about Mav, so stop wasting your vote and actually put it on someone that might get lynched tonight. There are only 3 candidates: Forumite Z-Boson Bill MurrayPut it on one of them, or I´ll scream at vigis to kill you tonight! On September 12 2012 04:54 Gravan wrote: At this point, my viewpoint is as follows (on the big topics):
Bill Murray is still suspicious, but, really, who the fuck knows? Z-Boson is highly suspicious.
Forumite is highly suspicious, and very shifty. For somebody who is posting somewhat regularily, he hasn't done too much to defend himself other than point as many fingers as he can as quickly as he can - something that seems really scummy.
I wish we had another day to talk about this, heh.
##Vote Forumite. On September 12 2012 04:56 Gravan wrote: To be a bit more clear:
Bill Murray's posting is very difficult to read, and he claims to have had more knowledge than he really ought to have had. That said, he has apparently been playing mafia for a while so he could also have just made a good read.
Z-Boson is far too defensive for my liking - it seems like he thinks that every post that isn't in agreement with him, or that pulls the discussion away from his posts, is targeted at him. FML You explain how all three candidates are scummy, and then vote the one with the biggest wagon. You are SCUM! too. This kind of posts only strengthens the need to vote for you, in my mind. Down to the wire, all you are doing is pointing as many fingers as you can, as aggressively as you can (in big red letters, hehe), with the bare minimum amount of evidence or effort. It seems desperate instead of simply defensive. Why not try to clear your name and answer the accusations about yourself as best you can in an attempt to lift votes off you (no matter how futile, at this late hour)? Hopeless (the first person in the game to point a serious finger at you) has even given you this opportunity on a silver platter. Yet, all you continue to do is dodge and slip around, shouting at other people and being selective in your question answering and case-making. This is something that I think he was TRYING to do early game. However, he kind of violates his own rule when he decided to turn on BM in an attempt to 'clear his name'. In fact- his quoted posts above clearly indicate that he felt he needed a counter argument... which was to point fingers to clear his name????? Other than that, he has started to contribute a lot more which I can relate to. I hate posting early in the game. It sucks. Its confusing. There are too many people talking. You have people like BM saying things like "This person is scum" and everyone just listens to them for seemingly NO reason... Now though- he is posting significantly differently than he was at the start.... Why would a scum INCREASE his posting.. when there are plenty of lurkers for him to hide amongst? He is putting himself out there in more assertive ways... This speaks more to Gravan's personality as a person.. probably awkward in groups- has to get to know people more before opening up...probably only has a few close friends.. etc etc... (Also yes, I am a therapist ha) tldr: Gravan appears to be a new player(town)- or a mafia pretending to be new.. and doing an absolutely awesome job at it. I'll add to SS too in my next post, but I got an additional town read on him too. Not 100% related to my vote so putting it in next post. - I also did, at least at first glance, Mavs case on ShiaoPi looked good, gonna read through it, but as Shiao is so far to catching up on votes im not gonna vote him anyway. - BM is still on my list of people to consider, but no votes on him = my vote goes to Gravan quite clearly.
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Ok, this post will be mostly directed at BM
About my case on you. I agree its not very strong. Actually I agree with you calling it a "case" as you nicely highlighted it with quotation marks. And the reason it is weak is because its impossible to create a strong case on someone playing the way you do taking your suppoed meta into account. Without meta, the case is like the strongest case ever because you've done like what, 20(?) things that each on their own could result in suspicions being targetted your way. However, you obviously have to take meta into account, and as all such normally suspicious activities suddenly can all be explained by "its his meta, he always does that regardless of alignment". So yea, the "case" is weak, and its also impossible to be strong. Its like trying to create a "strong" case against someone not posting or someone FoSing everyone. Try to do that.
About policy lynches Is my "case" of you a policy case? Definitely partly. And is that a problem? Policy lynches are absolutely fucking needed in this game. The second you remove the possibility of policy lynching someone, thats the second someone not replying or someone FoSing everyone becomes unbeatable as mafia, because you cant create strong "real" cases against them. As such, you NEED to pull policy cases now and then, and policy cases should always be considered. It would be way to easy to play as mafia otherwise.
Depending on the situation, I wouldnt have minded starting a policy case on Grush either. Especially not early in the game. later its more debatable. But for now thats probably neither a good idea nor likely to go through. However my "case" on you isnt only a policy case. You on the other hand has given additional reasons to vote for you, which I why I was more "pushy" in your case. Dont be surprised to see me pushing policy lynches in other games should I join more, especially if the people in question give me additional reasons to. Off topic: + Show Spoiler +I could post a long-ass reason why I still would like to policy lynch in general (not related to this game) and what I hope to accomplish with it, but I'd consider that pretty unnecessary and off topic (since its not related to the game, duh). If you want, I can share on PM or in the thread after the game is done though, just ask for it.
You also (conviniently?) forgot about this and the point there directed to you: + Show Spoiler +On September 11 2012 16:44 Kreb wrote:Ok, decided to not follow the wagon after all (damn im such a rebel). My vote will be on BillMurray for now. Few reasons: - This post made by Hapa before he died. It did kinda get left alone given that Toads case on Forumite was posted later same page (page 77). + Show Spoiler +On September 10 2012 01:26 Hapahauli wrote:First off, I don't buy ShiaoPi's excuse. If Shiao is moving into university as he is suggesting, I find it hard to believe he'd sign up for a Mafia game if he knew his schedule. He was also plenty active to respond to Maverick's suspicion against him - and much more frequently than the "10 minute loading time" per page he was suggesting about his internet earlier. Finally, Shiao's only standing read is an OMGUS against Maverick. Strongly suggest shooting him tonight. Also, I won't be as active for the next few hours, so I wanted to comment on... Bill MurrayThis is mostly based on his actions (inactions?) during the BKE lynch. Right around when I dropped the case on BKE, Bill Murray had a burst of 6 short posts, all compiled into one larger one for your convenience: Show nested quote +id love to lynch maverick or hapahauli why are people voting BKE? can i get a summary of the case?
Hapahauli's link doesn't count = 13 lines of rubbish he linked ON THE SAME PAGE
If Doyouhas is town we don't lynch Hapahauli If Doyouhas is scum we lynch Hapahauli imo
I'll be here for a few hours if anyone would like to discuss anything
I had a post about associative tells, but honestly, I'm not even going to bring another one up. I'll be waiting to push someone on hard evidence, like what I found (not saying it was my case.. but filtering him, it glared out at me... so i found it as well) on Mattchew. I summarized the case for him and never heard back from him. The only post he made between there and after the lynch is this weak-sauce soft-push of BKE: Show nested quote +On September 08 2012 15:40 Bill Murray wrote:On September 08 2012 03:12 BroodKingEXE wrote:On September 07 2012 11:37 Hapahauli wrote:Before I go to bed for the night: BroodKingEXEHe has two very suspicious posts regarding two confirmed players: Mattchew and Ottoxlol.
A bit before Mattchew is scum-confirmed (right around when a few players start voting for Mattchew), Broodking posts this unbelievably wishy-washy opinion on Mattchew. On September 04 2012 16:20 BroodKingEXE wrote: About Mattchew (who I think is town): Here's my breakdown of the situation : Matt's roleclaimed and given two reasons he claimed to avoid mislynch and/or draw a mafia shot. At first glance the roleclaim seemed like a great idea, but as I thought about it there were just too many holes. My initial thought was that it was a good idea and that could have been Matt's (based on the reasoning too). Another problem I find with lynching him is that what he has done (roleclaim) isn't verifiable until he is lynched. Right now its a coinflip and I haven't seen anything else that suggests he is scum. Fakeclaims aren't good basis for a lynch, they're not even able to be confirmed until the lynch, so I cant vote for him unless his posting sounds scummy. Look at the logic - he first thinks its a great idea, then there are "too many holes." He doesn't want to lynch him because his "roleclaim isn't verifiable until he is lynched" - the hell? He said he's town originally, then says "its a coinflip" Then he says "Fakeclaims aren't good basis for a lynch" and wants to wait until "mattchew sounds scummy". Again, the fakeclaim is the entire reason everyone voted for him. But wait! Two pages after the fakeclaim (and before Mattchew posted anything in the interim): On September 05 2012 00:12 BroodKingEXE wrote: Unvote ##Vote: Mattchew
Wow. After stating earlier that the fakeclaim wasn't enough to lynch Mattchew, he votes Mattchew for that very reasoning.
His viewpoints on Ottoxlol are the nail in the coffin: Goes from top scumread: No, his response was belivable based on posts he made after his sloosh interaction. Ottox has replaced him [ed note: Broodking's scumread on Toad due to the fact that he is pushing a "Matt is an assasin/townie scheme" instead of pushing his scum read toad. Then proceeds to push cases against Miltonkram, Shadysands, and Gravan while Ottox is his top scumread: Then says strange things about potentially townie Ottox while keeping a scumread on him. filter My 2 cents about the Ottox thing. I played with him in Area 53 and he's as stubborn as a mule. I could see him trying to derail a lynch from a town perspective. I just don't get why as town he wont push a lynch canidate (in all seriousness his isn't doing much to push toad or hapa). That's why Im keeping a scum read on him. Then SOFT DEFENDS OTTOX when talking to DrHOn September 06 2012 16:03 BroodKingEXE wrote:It was later in the game from what I remember, just that he doesn't really listen (or ignores) others logic. BroodKingEXE is scum!##Vote BroodKingEXE I've got a break to post. The reason I didn't like the idea of voting for a fake-claim is because short of Mod-confirmation, we wouldn't have any way to confirm BC's theory. I switched my vote because the fake-claim was confirmed and Mattchew had made no attempt to explain the fake-claim from a town perspective. considering... like... people (a guy named xelin, off the top) have had nosy-neighbor roles before? i disagree w this This is the only post he makes during the BKE push. Note that he doesn’t take a stance and simply disagrees with BKE’s defense. Then, after the BKE lynch... Show nested quote +i cant believe you all lynched BKX You all need to listen to me, even if I've been drinking lightly. All of a sudden, he acts as if he was against BKE the whole time. Now I’m not sure if BillMurray is capable of doing stuff like this as town (his normal posting is scummy after all), but this specific thing seems scummy as hell to me.
- His unwillingness to reply to this post, to Bosons post questions or to my question. There might be more occasions but probably not needed. - Me generally disliking that way of posting. If you purposedly post scummy (which people have claimed he always does) you just make it way too easy for yourself to hide. - Him not really committing to anything and switching opinions about people all the time. He said he'd back off Forumite, voted on him anyway. He had also gone back and forth about Maverick in his filter (without explaining the reasoning of course). - Toad seemingly agreeing BM needs to die. Toad is the one one who seem to have the meta knowledge about the others, and even though he's preferring Boson/Forumite, at least it doesnt mean the meta-argumentation clears Murray of anything. - Me having a bad feeling about the Forumite case and how its unfolding. Maverick explained it well + Show Spoiler +I don't like the way these cases are being played out. By there being more than just a dominant voice of "Everyone pile on this person"- having another option forces people to choose. If everyone just says "vote for this person" and no one is offering an alternative- scum is safe to just follow along since there wasn't a realistic option. That would be about it. Im very open to change my vote should he make an effort to defend himself though, but I've got a feeling that wont happen. Short opinions about Maverick and Boson and why I dont want to vote on them for now. Maverick: With the 10 or more people I have no feeling for at all, Maverick at least made two recent posts I very much agree with as town. Not enough to put him as a clear town, but enough to not make me wanna vote on him now. Boson: I think the best explanation of his play so far was him being 3rd party. So I'll stick to that opinion about him for now. ##Vote Bill Murray So no, my "case" isnt only a policy case.
Ok, now time for BMs case ("case"?) on me. I totally wish I could reply with something along the lines of "i really dont think BMs deserves a reply considering his play before". Too bad that would like unnecessaily scummy.
-You accuse me of flip flopping you. Actually its true, I did. But what I also did was explain my reasoning behind my flip flopping. How many flip flops have you done and how many out of those have you explained? - You accuse me of wanting to policy lynch you. Already covered that. But as to your accusation, yea I do want to lynch you due to policy (and other things). - You accuse me of not focusing one target "as a town would". True, I didnt. But please explain why a town would do that and while you're at it you might explain how it relates to the amount of targets you've focused over the thread :p
About the recent SS/BM "bluefishing" exchange (Oh man, BM is gonna love calling us scumbuddies for this): I dont really see the problem with Shadys "bluefishing". The thing is he is already pushing for a case on Grav. Ok, put yourself in mafia-SS's boots. You're pushing for a mislynch on Gravan for whatever reason (because you think hes blue?). In from nowhere comes BM saying Gravan is Blue, and not green which is the other option for mafia-SS. Would it under any circumstances make sense for mafia-SS to ask for a confirmation about where the blue read come from? Except for maaaaaaaaybe out of curiosity that you might have hit jackpot by leading a mislynch wagon against a blue, nothing. Under any normal circumstances, mafia-SS would smile for himself, hope BM is right and stfu. I do agree with BM had SS been pushing for anyone else but Grav. Then it might very well have been bluefishing. But as he was pushing Grav, I dont.
On the other hand, town-SS being suspicious of BM has a reason to demand an explanation when BM comes in and opposes town-SS's main tunneltarget.
If anything, that exchange put SS more towards the towny side for me. I really dont see mafia-SS acting like that at all. That is also the townread i referred to and why Im not voting him.
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