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Looking back at who voted who and why so far, I couldnt help but noticing this one:
On September 11 2012 04:07 Rewok wrote: I've been wrong every time I voted on my own instinct and right the time I followed Toade so my vote is for Forumite.
##vote: Forumite Do you really not have any opinion on this yourself? If you dont have an opinion on the voting candidates, at least elaborate a bit on why you chose to follow Toad blindly and not any other random player.
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On September 12 2012 04:04 Z-BosoN wrote:Show nested quote +On September 12 2012 03:51 Forumite wrote:On September 11 2012 23:56 Hopeless1der wrote:On September 11 2012 23:16 Forumite wrote: I dislike most of the case (Z-boson's case on BM), especially him calling BM out for lying, often a "lie" is the player simply forgetting something instead of scum-motivated. What I do agree with is that it´s very bad of BM to have been gone during the BKE lynch. My opinion of BM is that he doesn´t try to help. We want him to be a town leader and all he does is short posts, cryptic or irrelevant passages, FoS on me, taking back FoS on me, saying he actually always suspected me, back and forth.
The old cases on me during N1 were weak, and both BM and Toades said so, so I didn´t do much about them except resolving to get more active, and yet it´s those same reasons that are used to get me lynched today. =/ - You want BILL MURRAY to be the leader? The voice of reason, a beacon for us to rally around? Are you kidding me? - Where is this so called activity? Why is it that my posts are never responded to? Am I lurking to hard? For the last time: On September 11 2012 07:24 Forumite wrote: And there goes D3.
Come on guys, ignore the wagon for a while, where are the other scum? When I flip town, who is your next target? I´ve been away a few hours and the only thing that´s happened is that everyone´s said they want to lynch me. Doesn´t anyone have something else to add? On September 11 2012 01:09 Hopeless1der wrote: Forumite, could you perhaps flesh things out a bit more on Z-Boson, besides his interactions regarding Mattchew? Why is he a better lynch than you right now?
Forumite, Why should we lynch Z-Boson? Why do you want me to die? Make an effort to explain yourself.For reference, a case on Forumite that is not based on Meta: + Show Spoiler +On September 07 2012 02:43 Hopeless1der wrote:First, my original case on Forumite: + Show Spoiler +On September 04 2012 13:18 Hopeless1der wrote:Supposing we table the nosy-neighbor discussion(which appears to still be going strong), I would like to point out my take on Forumite: Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 09:36 Forumite wrote:On September 04 2012 09:12 Mattchew wrote: I am a nosy neighbor. Anyone else with this role should insta-claim as well.
The reason people policy lynch people like BM and Grush is because they get by into later in the game because they are unreadable. This is because they barely actually play the game and if you end up in lylo with one of them left, you've basically already lost. I completely understand anyone wanting to policy lynch them, but we should also not allow them to be off the hook for some sort of scum read during the day.
That being said, I remember thinking to myself that I don't hate BM's play in the last few games I have been in with him. I do not want to policy lynch today.
Why would you claim this? You eliminated yourself as a possible blue from scums list of townies, and it´s not like you doing this eliminates you as a scum suspect. If someone see you visiting a player who dies the we´re lynching you anyway. "We're lynching you anyway" Not cool. First, I disagree with the notion that revealing yourself as a nosy neighbor is scummy. Oh wait, Forumite didn't really say that. He didn't really say much of anything here if you ask me, but back to the point of "lynching you anyways", I don't like the blanket statements from Forumite. Here's another one: Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 09:46 Forumite wrote:On September 04 2012 09:42 BlackMamba24 wrote:On September 04 2012 09:27 Forumite wrote:On September 04 2012 09:07 BlackMamba24 wrote: I mean that blues should do what they feel is best with their own judgment and ignore any direction from the "town" Sorry, I should have been more specific. I wondered about this phrase: On September 04 2012 07:55 BlackMamba24 wrote: Never lynch someone just because they wouldn't claim to the town leader or whatever, that's asinine, asiten, asieleven, asitwelve, etc. What is there to explain? There's a difference between lynching someone for not backing themselves up after they're caught lying or whatever and lynching someone because they don't trust the town circle. It sounded weird. It´s common for the voteleader to be lynched unless he claims (convincingly). As an aside, "It sounded weird" is not a phrase I like to see. Immediately makes me suspicious. Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 09:55 Forumite wrote:On September 04 2012 09:43 Mattchew wrote:On September 04 2012 09:36 Forumite wrote:On September 04 2012 09:12 Mattchew wrote: I am a nosy neighbor. Anyone else with this role should insta-claim as well.
The reason people policy lynch people like BM and Grush is because they get by into later in the game because they are unreadable. This is because they barely actually play the game and if you end up in lylo with one of them left, you've basically already lost. I completely understand anyone wanting to policy lynch them, but we should also not allow them to be off the hook for some sort of scum read during the day.
That being said, I remember thinking to myself that I don't hate BM's play in the last few games I have been in with him. I do not want to policy lynch today.
Why would you claim this? You eliminated yourself as a possible blue from scums list of townies, and it´s not like you doing this eliminates you as a scum suspect. If someone see you visiting a player who dies the we´re lynching you anyway. Because there is no town benefit to me hiding this information. and for all everyone knows I could be a blue role trying to avoid being incorrectly tracked as well if I get tracked to a dead person atleast there will be something to think about before mislynching me Lying to town as a blue is a bad idea. If you fakeclaim nosy neighbor to fool scum, then you risk getting lynched by town. You are still going to draw a few trackers during the first few nights, just to make sure that you are really visiting people at random with no effect, so because of this you might actually be hurting town by distracting blues. Why are trackers going to be inclined to 'verify' a nosy neighbor claim? Even if Mattchew is scum, he just needs to do something and his claim is still up in the air. Why is Forumite trying to manipulate our blues? There's also the point about lying as a blue. How about lying in general to the town? There isn't any value in this statement. Town is supposedly harmed because our Trackers have to make sure Mattchew is really visiting random people with no effect. And then they get a confirmed townie out of the exchange. Wait, how does that hurt us again?
Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 10:00 Forumite wrote:On September 04 2012 09:55 slOosh wrote:On September 04 2012 09:05 Forumite wrote:Finished with page 12. On September 04 2012 08:01 slOosh wrote:On September 04 2012 07:58 Toadesstern wrote:On September 04 2012 07:56 slOosh wrote: Hapa, what is your idea of a town circle and how does it help us find / lynch / kill scum?
Toad - How is that useless stuff that has nothing to do with the game? The setup changed and maybe people haven't read the updates. I've asked you once and I'll do it again, what else do you want to talk about? I don't know what you want to talk about. I'm talking about your useless post being useless. Well BlackMamba's recent post just shows that people can miss information. My post has already proven itself useful, and your opening post which tries to discredit mine has not. Do you think I'm scum by my first post? What is your problem with Toades? Do you think he´s deliberately disruptive? What makes you think I think that? Let me rephrase: What is your problem with Toades play in this game? You were reacting very strongly to a random vote coming right at the beginning of the game. Dat Over-reaction: Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 07:42 slOosh wrote: Cool ... you wanna talk about something else? Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 07:56 slOosh wrote: Hapa, what is your idea of a town circle and how does it help us find / lynch / kill scum?
Toad - How is that useless stuff that has nothing to do with the game? The setup changed and maybe people haven't read the updates. I've asked you once and I'll do it again, what else do you want to talk about? And then of course slo0sh himself points out: Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 10:17 slOosh wrote:On September 04 2012 10:00 Forumite wrote:On September 04 2012 09:55 slOosh wrote:On September 04 2012 09:05 Forumite wrote:Finished with page 12. On September 04 2012 08:01 slOosh wrote:On September 04 2012 07:58 Toadesstern wrote:On September 04 2012 07:56 slOosh wrote: Hapa, what is your idea of a town circle and how does it help us find / lynch / kill scum?
Toad - How is that useless stuff that has nothing to do with the game? The setup changed and maybe people haven't read the updates. I've asked you once and I'll do it again, what else do you want to talk about? I don't know what you want to talk about. I'm talking about your useless post being useless. Well BlackMamba's recent post just shows that people can miss information. My post has already proven itself useful, and your opening post which tries to discredit mine has not. Do you think I'm scum by my first post? What is your problem with Toades? Do you think he´s deliberately disruptive? What makes you think I think that? Let me rephrase: What is your problem with Toades play in this game? You were reacting very strongly to a random vote coming right at the beginning of the game. I reacted strongly because there was no grounds for the vote / read. I still have a problem with the fact that he keeps emphasizing the uselessness of the post (it isn't, because as clearly seen that people can miss setup information), which I take as soft discrediting of my posts in general. I'm not claiming my opening post is super useful, but to call it useless is unwarranted. That said I can see this coming from a town perspective, so my problem with his play thus far is a matter of taste rather than alignment. On September 04 2012 10:04 Z-BosoN wrote:On September 04 2012 09:55 slOosh wrote:On September 04 2012 09:05 Forumite wrote:Finished with page 12. On September 04 2012 08:01 slOosh wrote:On September 04 2012 07:58 Toadesstern wrote:On September 04 2012 07:56 slOosh wrote: Hapa, what is your idea of a town circle and how does it help us find / lynch / kill scum?
Toad - How is that useless stuff that has nothing to do with the game? The setup changed and maybe people haven't read the updates. I've asked you once and I'll do it again, what else do you want to talk about? I don't know what you want to talk about. I'm talking about your useless post being useless. Well BlackMamba's recent post just shows that people can miss information. My post has already proven itself useful, and your opening post which tries to discredit mine has not. Do you think I'm scum by my first post? What is your problem with Toades? Do you think he´s deliberately disruptive? What makes you think I think that? Um... this: " My post has already proven itself useful, and your opening post which tries to discredit mine has not" You are saying that he tries to discredit you ---> you think he tried to discredit you ---> if he tried to discredit you, you are saying he wanted to do this and is being deliberately disruptive. Why not just straight answer the question without adding another one? There is a difference in someone discrediting me and someone being deliberately disruptive. Forumite phrased the question in a way that seemingly put words in my mouth as I said the former but not the latter (or never intended to so I checked with my question). Specifically the last paragraph is what I want noted. Then again, slo0sh addressed the 'strong reaction' in the first part of that quote, but I don't think slo0sh reacted 'strongly' at all. Forumite is just stirring the pot here and not really being helpful to me. He looks like he's pushing discussion, but slo0sh was taking care of that all on his own. We didn't need Forumite to prompt him.
I see a lot of roundabout advice from Forumite on why claiming self-aware miller is terrible and how our blues are screwed for it. But nowhere does he tell us that Mattchew is scummy, just that he'll still be suspicious no matter what. His prodding at slo0sh dead-ended pretty quickly and he's ducked out of the thread after making this post: Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 10:01 Forumite wrote:On September 04 2012 10:00 Z-BosoN wrote: Hello folks ^^ I would appreciate it if someone could clear some things up, since I've never played in this setup yet. Right now I've noticed this new mechanic: visiting someone. A nosy neighbor will randomly visit someone. This will be caught up by the town watcher and/or tracker. Now what I don't understand: if a medic saves someone, or if a roleblocker blocks some, or if a Suicide Bomber plants a bomb somewhere, or if a goon tks someone, will they also "visit" this person? Yes, all nightactions, including mafia nightkills, can be detected by watchers and trackers. I´ve never seen you before. Have you been on TL-mafia long? What do you think about the game so far? I don't think his posts have contributed anything to getting scum lynched, and I think it is because Forumite is scum. ##Vote: Forumite+ Show Spoiler +Pregame answer for Rewok, I got curious when going through Forumite's filter: On September 03 2012 01:49 Forumite wrote:Show nested quote +On September 03 2012 00:51 Rewok wrote: There's a word for arguing for arguments sake but I can't remember it. Anybody want to help me out? No there isn't! + Show Spoiler + Eristic My followup, continuing my journey through his filter: His entire reasoning for voting matt is to sheep BC: Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 21:11 Forumite wrote: Still catching up with the posts made while I was asleep.
For now: ##Vote: Mattchew
He´s a scummy liar and I´m 100% behind BC for calling him out. He didn't even read the entire thread through...He initially just tossed his vote in there because BC was so sure of himself, but that wasn't really the case. How do I know this? Because in his next post, he's defending his 'out of place' vote in the spoilered post below: + Show Spoiler +On September 05 2012 11:17 Forumite wrote:Reading through the thread, my vote on Matt looks kind of odd. I made it after I got a PM-confirmation from Palmar but before I saw Palmars post in the thread. Why do people fakevote, then say "lol, I never really voted!" It´s irritating. Making a vote in this thread might not count but I think it´s bad form. Similarly it´s bad to stealthvote in the other thread without confirming it here. If you want to pressurevote, do it for real. @BMShow nested quote +On September 05 2012 05:57 Bill Murray wrote:On September 04 2012 09:36 Forumite wrote:On September 04 2012 09:12 Mattchew wrote: I am a nosy neighbor. Anyone else with this role should insta-claim as well.
The reason people policy lynch people like BM and Grush is because they get by into later in the game because they are unreadable. This is because they barely actually play the game and if you end up in lylo with one of them left, you've basically already lost. I completely understand anyone wanting to policy lynch them, but we should also not allow them to be off the hook for some sort of scum read during the day.
That being said, I remember thinking to myself that I don't hate BM's play in the last few games I have been in with him. I do not want to policy lynch today.
Why would you claim this? You eliminated yourself as a possible blue from scums list of townies, and it´s not like you doing this eliminates you as a scum suspect. If someone see you visiting a player who dies the we´re lynching you anyway. check this scummy post from forumite 1) misreads the setup 2) attacks him with a smirk for the claim, which looks scummy as shit 3) takes the visiting thing a step further, saying "if they die" which clears a ton of scum roles... forumite is scum with a role FoS: Forumite I don´t get it. Matt was looking very strange for claiming when there was no benefit in claiming. I was talking to him to try and get a better read. Yes, if Matt was blue then I might have exposed him, but I wasn´t worried about that, I was thinking Matt was either NN or scum. With Matt looking more and more scummy, do you still accuse me of fishing for his role? Your FoS seem to rely on Matt being a townie, which he´s probably not. Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 09:48 Rewok wrote: Been keeping up my reading. Here's how the situation seems to me:
We're voting Mattchew today. Pretty much no getting out of that. If he turns up scum, Ottox and a few others could be on the chopping block. If he's town, we've got a whole new set of reads.
But it seems to me that our whole strategy hinges on how Mattchew turns up after he's killed. Is there any way we can get another read / another kill set up for D1? One which doesn't hinge on Mattchew's alignment?
I'm asking because you guys are way more familiar with the way TL mafia runs. One lynch at a time. Once Matt is dead, we shut up during the night, and then try to figure out what his flip means tomorrow. We can´t lynch more than one target at a time, so we lynch the scummiest one and worry about finding the rest of the scumteam later. More specifically, pulling from the spoilered post above: Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 11:17 Forumite wrote: Reading through the thread, my vote on Matt looks kind of odd. I made it after I got a PM-confirmation from Palmar but before I saw Palmars post in the thread. It didn't look strange. Feel free the check the timestamps, his vote came after Palmar confirmed the lie. Forumite says he got mod confirmation anyways, but to what avail? This is a defensive statement when there is nothing to defend against. This is scummy behavior. Why did he have to sheep BC if he had mod confirmation? More scummy behavior. Next, he's reading things between lines that I have a hard time seeing. Read BM's post and show me how you came out of that thinking "Well BM is accusing me of bluefishing": Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 05:57 Bill Murray wrote:On September 04 2012 09:36 Forumite wrote:On September 04 2012 09:12 Mattchew wrote: I am a nosy neighbor. Anyone else with this role should insta-claim as well.
The reason people policy lynch people like BM and Grush is because they get by into later in the game because they are unreadable. This is because they barely actually play the game and if you end up in lylo with one of them left, you've basically already lost. I completely understand anyone wanting to policy lynch them, but we should also not allow them to be off the hook for some sort of scum read during the day.
That being said, I remember thinking to myself that I don't hate BM's play in the last few games I have been in with him. I do not want to policy lynch today.
Why would you claim this? You eliminated yourself as a possible blue from scums list of townies, and it´s not like you doing this eliminates you as a scum suspect. If someone see you visiting a player who dies the we´re lynching you anyway. check this scummy post from forumite 1) misreads the setup 2) attacks him with a smirk for the claim, which looks scummy as shit 3) takes the visiting thing a step further, saying "if they die" which clears a ton of scum roles... forumite is scum with a role FoS: Forumite Forumite's response to BM: Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 11:17 Forumite wrote: I don´t get it. Matt was looking very strange for claiming when there was no benefit in claiming. I was talking to him to try and get a better read. Yes, if Matt was blue then I might have exposed him, but I wasn´t worried about that, I was thinking Matt was either NN or scum. Next is him stifling active discussion and being wishy-washy: Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 11:17 Forumite wrote: One lynch at a time. Once Matt is dead, we shut up during the night, and then try to figure out what his flip means tomorrow. We can´t lynch more than one target at a time, so we lynch the scummiest one and worry about finding the rest of the scumteam later. He's kind of hedging his bets on what Matt's flip is going to be. This is a step back from when Matt was a scummy liar in his previous post. So what if we can't lynch more than one target at a time? I disagree with the concept of shutting up at night, but I don't necessarily see that as scum motivated. What is scummy is that we can "worry about finding the rest of the scumteam later." This isn't shutting up at night, this is shutting up in general. Rewok phrased his question poorly as an "alternative D1 target", but the basic concept of CONTINUE TO SCUMHUNT is completely valid to me.
In the next post: + Show Spoiler +On September 05 2012 21:19 Forumite wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 12:43 Z-BosoN wrote: Allright, Mattchew is set to be lynched. What can we conclude if he flips scum or town? In the unlikely event that he will flip town, will we have enough evidence to go for a BC lynch?
My take is, if he flips town, BC's suspicions will go way up, but I don't agree with insta-lynch. We all agreed that fakeclaiming is not something a blue role would do, and is most likely coming from scum.
If he flips scum, then we will take a long hard look at the people who insist that he shouldn't be lynched.
Ox, as of now, is my top candidate for a lynch. He's been so obnoxious and so annoying regarding the whole Mattchew business that he looks the most suspicious up to now. He also has been of zero usefulness this entire game.
@Shiaopi Your meta is a little off from Dwarf Mafia, where you were town and had much more contribuitive posts in day 1. When will your internet be fixed? Basically that, if Matt flips town, then BC could be anything, but if Matt flips scum then BC is most likely town, and everyone who defended Matt until Palmars confirmation looks kind of bad. People who defend Matt after Palmars confirmation look bad for creating a disruption over something that is allready decided, that Matt lied and needs to die, but I think most scum jumped on the bandwagon long ago. If Matt is an Assassin then we get rid of both the 3rd Party in return for 2 townies dead. Not a good trade, but I think it´s unlikely that Matt is an assassin. There´s no point in not defending yourself to the end as a 3rd Party, while scum often shut up to avoid giving away any of their buddies. Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 14:38 Bill Murray wrote: No, Forumite. I don't see how you get that whatsoever. I see you as being scum with Mattchew for not jumping on voting him there. Isn´t that a different accusation? Before you accuse me of trying to get Matt to claim (meaning that you thought I was scum and Matt town), and now you say I´m scum together with Matt. To answer why I didn´t vote Matt early, at the time I was weighing on what Matt was and engaged him in conversation to get a better read, but until Palmar confirmed how Nosy Neighbors works, there wasn´t enough on Matt for me to throw down a vote. Matt was suspicious for claiming NN, but there were no proof that he was really lying at the time. Why should I vote someone who claims a town role unless I have a good reason to think he´s lying? , He basically says that if Matt flips red (which he has) then everyone looks kind of bad sometimes because of disruption and bussing something something waffle. Don't count on finding scum using Matt's flip is the message I got from that. This, in addition to his "find scum later" response to rewok reads very scummy to me. He also pushes his luck with BM regarding the bluefishing, which I don't think actually happened and Forumite is twisting the situation to make BM look bad. For the most part, he's shut up other than to call Mav scum and neglect to address the ottoxlol issue. This is null since he said he'd wanted to shut up at night, but with everything else, I'm reading heavily into Forumite being scum. - Well, I´d hope Bill Murray would at least lead a lynch on a scum sometime during this game. He´s been hanging back, most importantly during yesterdays mislynch. - I´m giving the game the time I can give, but it´s a bloody big game. Lots to read through. 1) At least the thread doesn´t grow that fast anymore, even if that´s because the scum killed the most active posters. - 2) Why Z-boson? I can´t tell, there´s a lot of scumsense and odd posts, but nothing huge and damning. There´s no single thing I can point to that is definetly a scum move, but several that make me suspect there´s a scum motivation somewhere. It´s a big game and the two flipped scum died very, very early, so unfortunately this is the best I can do for now. I´ve gotten a scumread on Z-boson and it´s one of the few that hasn´t changed through the game. I´ve flip-flopped on almost everyone else, but my read on him has been off for a long time. It could just be tunneling of course. 1) This is good then? Not to flatter myself, but you propose to kill the most active poster atm. Liking the silence? This is another pretty good reason why I dont wanna vote Boson lol. He puts so many words in peoples mouthes. I have no idea how "At least the thread doesn´t grow that fast anymore" becomes "you propose to kill the most active poster atm". At thats hardly the first time, he hits on everything, left and right. I somehow have a hard time believing a mafia wouldnt be more...... tactical than that.
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The amount of people following the case blindly is highly annoying to me. People arent really making their own opinions but seem to be following the wagon way too much. We've already lost two active posters last night and we're about to lynch Forumite (who Im feeling more and more good about not voting on). Whats gonna be left after N3? Its gonna be Toad going all solo and as it looks now it seems he will be able to get any case he wants through. Granted, it might work if people spam him with night protection, but I dont like those odds.
Or if Toad would be mafia I bet he's having a pretty good time now. Hes completely untouched and people are seemingly following what hes saying.
Oh well, we can hope Forumite flips red, or at least 3rd party.
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Is there any chance we could get a comment from Toad before its time for night kills? If not it might be good idea for doctors/jailkeepers to move their protection around to people who seem to be more similiar to what hapa/austin was. I imagine theres been quite a few people protecting Toad so far, and that could be up for discussion.
Also note: Im not suspicious of him (well, not more than the paranioa he pretty much asked for us to have regarding him :p), but since he was took the biggest part in the mislynch, it would be nice to know what he has to say about it and what he wants the next move to be. Theres already been two people throwing suspicions his way (Forumite, Grush).
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Also agreeing on that a big shot on Bill Murray would be a good idea.
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Big shot :D Well, maybe that too! Obviously meant vig shot though.
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On September 12 2012 22:43 imallinson wrote:Show nested quote +On September 12 2012 22:35 Kreb wrote: Is there any chance we could get a comment from Toad before its time for night kills? If not it might be good idea for doctors/jailkeepers to move their protection around to people who seem to be more similiar to what hapa/austin was. I imagine theres been quite a few people protecting Toad so far, and that could be up for discussion.
Also note: Im not suspicious of him (well, not more than the paranioa he pretty much asked for us to have regarding him :p), but since he was took the biggest part in the mislynch, it would be nice to know what he has to say about it and what he wants the next move to be. Theres already been two people throwing suspicions his way (Forumite, Grush). Just because he led a mislynch doesn't make him less town. Town players are perfectly capable of being wrong. If we start suspecting everyone who pushes a mislynch we won't have anyone pushing lynches at all. Of course.
But given the fact that he pretty much told us we should be paranoid as fuck about him (which I very much am) due to how supposedly good he was as mafia, I at least think we could demand a comment. As I said Im not suspicious, Im just paranoid. I trusted him for this lynch, that trust took a bit of a hit. Im wondering if I should renew the trust or not.
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On September 12 2012 22:43 imallinson wrote:Show nested quote +On September 12 2012 22:35 Kreb wrote: Is there any chance we could get a comment from Toad before its time for night kills? If not it might be good idea for doctors/jailkeepers to move their protection around to people who seem to be more similiar to what hapa/austin was. I imagine theres been quite a few people protecting Toad so far, and that could be up for discussion.
Also note: Im not suspicious of him (well, not more than the paranioa he pretty much asked for us to have regarding him :p), but since he was took the biggest part in the mislynch, it would be nice to know what he has to say about it and what he wants the next move to be. Theres already been two people throwing suspicions his way (Forumite, Grush). Just because he led a mislynch doesn't make him less town. Town players are perfectly capable of being wrong. If we start suspecting everyone who pushes a mislynch we won't have anyone pushing lynches at all. And Im not exactly calling for a lynch on him. However depending on what will be said from now until N3 ends, I might call for doctors/jailkeepers to re-evaluate their decision to protect Toad (obviously supposing they protected him in the first place, which I find very likely).
A likely N2 scenario was mafia ignoring Toad and using their KPs on austin/hapa. The most likely either ignored him because A) They expected him to have protecting B) Hes mafia. In bose cases, keeping spamming protection on him is useless. At least the doctors/jailkeepers should exercise the possibility of their protection being better placed elsewhere.
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On September 12 2012 22:56 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On September 12 2012 22:50 Kreb wrote:On September 12 2012 22:43 imallinson wrote:On September 12 2012 22:35 Kreb wrote: Is there any chance we could get a comment from Toad before its time for night kills? If not it might be good idea for doctors/jailkeepers to move their protection around to people who seem to be more similiar to what hapa/austin was. I imagine theres been quite a few people protecting Toad so far, and that could be up for discussion.
Also note: Im not suspicious of him (well, not more than the paranioa he pretty much asked for us to have regarding him :p), but since he was took the biggest part in the mislynch, it would be nice to know what he has to say about it and what he wants the next move to be. Theres already been two people throwing suspicions his way (Forumite, Grush). Just because he led a mislynch doesn't make him less town. Town players are perfectly capable of being wrong. If we start suspecting everyone who pushes a mislynch we won't have anyone pushing lynches at all. Of course. But given the fact that he pretty much told us we should be paranoid as fuck about him (which I very much am) due to how supposedly good he was as mafia, I at least think we could demand a comment. As I said Im not suspicious, Im just paranoid. I trusted him for this lynch, that trust took a bit of a hit. Im wondering if I should renew the trust or not. Don't blindly sheep people. That answers your question right? Was that directed at me? If so, what question did you refer to?
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On September 12 2012 23:04 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On September 12 2012 22:50 Kreb wrote:On September 12 2012 22:43 imallinson wrote:On September 12 2012 22:35 Kreb wrote: Is there any chance we could get a comment from Toad before its time for night kills? If not it might be good idea for doctors/jailkeepers to move their protection around to people who seem to be more similiar to what hapa/austin was. I imagine theres been quite a few people protecting Toad so far, and that could be up for discussion.
Also note: Im not suspicious of him (well, not more than the paranioa he pretty much asked for us to have regarding him :p), but since he was took the biggest part in the mislynch, it would be nice to know what he has to say about it and what he wants the next move to be. Theres already been two people throwing suspicions his way (Forumite, Grush). Just because he led a mislynch doesn't make him less town. Town players are perfectly capable of being wrong. If we start suspecting everyone who pushes a mislynch we won't have anyone pushing lynches at all. Of course. But given the fact that he pretty much told us we should be paranoid as fuck about him (which I very much am) due to how supposedly good he was as mafia, I at least think we could demand a comment. As I said Im not suspicious, Im just paranoid. I trusted him for this lynch, that trust took a bit of a hit. Im wondering if I should renew the trust or not. hey am back, haven't read a thing yet and yeah I agree with what you "proposed" although it's for a different reason. Only got like half an hour time until I've got to leave again but I'll have time later on (like 4 hours prior to deadline) to post something. However reasoning for medics considering me: I don't think medics / Jailers should be protecting me as well. Right now there's pretty much no way mafia is going to shoot me because people are getting paranoid about me. Mafia are probably not going to shoot me because they want that paranoia. Yeah I could be saying that as mafia as well giving an explanation why I survived yet another night but it really works both ways. For all I care, if you're paranoid just track me if you think I'm mafia and frankly I'd actually say that already happened given my "most people are afraid about me" post either n1 or n2 anyways. Of course if you're a tracker it's up to you when you want to track me because if I was mafia I could just tell people to track me and be the guy who's not delivering a KP (assuming more than 2 mafia alive). So waiting until we've got rid of another mafia might be the way to go for trackers, but it's up to you, I've got nothing to hide :p Cool.
On topic of tracking and watching, whats your opinion there?
Personally I feel tracking and watching should be pretty well spent on lurkers/low profile players. If you were mafia theres no way you'd be carrying out the kills. A watcher believing you to be town might have a good reason to. Catching your killer would be great should you go down tonight. But other than that option, I'd say watch/track low profile players, the information could be very important later in the game when where down to 8-10 players.
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Actually, that was pretty dumb what I said. Watch likely kill targets, track low profile dudes.
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On September 12 2012 23:15 Bill Murray wrote:Show nested quote +On September 12 2012 23:12 Kreb wrote:On September 12 2012 23:04 Toadesstern wrote:On September 12 2012 22:50 Kreb wrote:On September 12 2012 22:43 imallinson wrote:On September 12 2012 22:35 Kreb wrote: Is there any chance we could get a comment from Toad before its time for night kills? If not it might be good idea for doctors/jailkeepers to move their protection around to people who seem to be more similiar to what hapa/austin was. I imagine theres been quite a few people protecting Toad so far, and that could be up for discussion.
Also note: Im not suspicious of him (well, not more than the paranioa he pretty much asked for us to have regarding him :p), but since he was took the biggest part in the mislynch, it would be nice to know what he has to say about it and what he wants the next move to be. Theres already been two people throwing suspicions his way (Forumite, Grush). Just because he led a mislynch doesn't make him less town. Town players are perfectly capable of being wrong. If we start suspecting everyone who pushes a mislynch we won't have anyone pushing lynches at all. Of course. But given the fact that he pretty much told us we should be paranoid as fuck about him (which I very much am) due to how supposedly good he was as mafia, I at least think we could demand a comment. As I said Im not suspicious, Im just paranoid. I trusted him for this lynch, that trust took a bit of a hit. Im wondering if I should renew the trust or not. hey am back, haven't read a thing yet and yeah I agree with what you "proposed" although it's for a different reason. Only got like half an hour time until I've got to leave again but I'll have time later on (like 4 hours prior to deadline) to post something. However reasoning for medics considering me: I don't think medics / Jailers should be protecting me as well. Right now there's pretty much no way mafia is going to shoot me because people are getting paranoid about me. Mafia are probably not going to shoot me because they want that paranoia. Yeah I could be saying that as mafia as well giving an explanation why I survived yet another night but it really works both ways. For all I care, if you're paranoid just track me if you think I'm mafia and frankly I'd actually say that already happened given my "most people are afraid about me" post either n1 or n2 anyways. Of course if you're a tracker it's up to you when you want to track me because if I was mafia I could just tell people to track me and be the guy who's not delivering a KP (assuming more than 2 mafia alive). So waiting until we've got rid of another mafia might be the way to go for trackers, but it's up to you, I've got nothing to hide :p Cool. On topic of tracking and watching, whats your opinion there? Personally I feel tracking and watching should be pretty well spent on lurkers/low profile players. If you were mafia theres no way you'd be carrying out the kills. A watcher believing you to be town might have a good reason to. Catching your killer would be great should you go down tonight. But other than that option, I'd say watch/track low profile players, the information could be very important later in the game when where down to 8-10 players. Why? Because you're not low profile, and you don't want tracked? As per watching, no, that is terrible. if there are any watchers, DEFINITELY watch people who will be targetted. As per tracking, it can be beneficial depending on how the kill system works (whether or not they have to send a name in, or if it's random) because if they can protect good players, then I'd agree with you. Yea that was a stupid post by me, agreed. As for myself, Im probably not low profile enough to be a likely good tracking target I wouldnt say, no. If you disagree, feel free to track me. Only watch me Im you think I might get killed.
Hmmm, I was sure mafia had to send in names on who killed who. Maybe I shouldnt have taken that for granted...
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Well that was an unlikely turn of events lol. Mad Hatter and "100% read" on Toad? Hmm....
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Actually, with all actions happening simultaneously, he should be able to move the bomb should he get killed by the mafia (if hes town). So mafia should still be wary shooting him for that reason, the bomb might end up anywhere.
I'd still prefer not tracking him though, if hes mafia theres no way he'll do the night kills, and even if the claim is true that doesnt mean anything because he wont necessarily move the bomb. Watchers might wanna watch him though.
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Theres gotta be a Vig at work here? mkfuba.... Mafia shot Z-Boson + someone else who got saved? Vig shog mkfuba?
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On September 13 2012 07:19 imallinson wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2012 07:17 Kreb wrote: Theres gotta be a Vig at work here? mkfuba.... Mafia shot Z-Boson + someone else who got saved? Vig shog mkfuba? Why do you think mkfuba was a vig shot? Because hes been lurking. Why would a mafia wanna shoot him? He's no threat to the mafia as of now. Plus if mafia bought Z-Bosons claim they'd wanna kill him to also kill Toad (supposing Toad is town).
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On September 13 2012 07:19 Shady Sands wrote: Niiice play from ZB there. Well done I need to think through stuff here but this was my first reaction too. And I also do think this makes Toad look more town.
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On September 13 2012 07:26 imallinson wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2012 07:22 Kreb wrote:On September 13 2012 07:19 imallinson wrote:On September 13 2012 07:17 Kreb wrote: Theres gotta be a Vig at work here? mkfuba.... Mafia shot Z-Boson + someone else who got saved? Vig shog mkfuba? Why do you think mkfuba was a vig shot? Because hes been lurking. Why would a mafia wanna shoot him? He's no threat to the mafia as of now. Plus if mafia bought Z-Bosons claim they'd wanna kill him to also kill Toad (supposing Toad is town). They did kill ZB and not toad. That makes it look like scum bought the claim and shot ZB aiming to get toad as well. Yes, thats what I thought too. But thats 1KP on Boson. Would the 2nd KP really be on mkfuba? I dont see that making sense....
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Ok, First something which you might wanna know. I'll be gone for about 32ish hours from now (work...), so I wont take much part in the finding of new targets and expect to see a bunch of votes on a few people when I get back. I'll leave in 2h too so might be able to post short comments on anything until then should there be need to. I'll just pick the best targets out of those. I'll try to do what I can with this post though.
ShiaoPi - Not posting much and lurking. I did read through his filters though and I dont really see much pointing him towards mafia compared to other lurkers. So not really feeling him right now, although hes pretty much a null read.
Gravan - This is the lurker I feel best about. Apparently there were some suspicions of him D1 when he soft-defended Matt calling him 3rd party. Now, I do often attribute saying stupid things to bad town play (a lot more than others here seem to do at least, so much bad play being called suspicious all over here...) but this one doesnt fit inexperienced bad townie play to me at all. Why would you stick your head out like that calling him 3rd party already on D1? Also, the feeling the need to contribute (which definitely can be bad townie play, new players might not wanna lurk and look scummy as town because they often feel lurking = scummy. Being quite new myself I definitely felt the need to contribute sometimes even though I really dont have much to say) probably more often takes shape in calling out cases on random people with very little backing it up. But I dont feel it comes in the shape of calling 3rd party on someone already looking highly suspicious. Examples: This can easily be just bad townie play wanting to contribute: + Show Spoiler +On September 06 2012 10:16 Gravan wrote:I think Bill Murray is scum. Show nested quote +Also, Hapahauli, what is your read on Gravan? Scum or town? I don't want you using the word Null. Pick one. Scum or town? Consider yourself having a Gun to your head. This is the first time he mentions me. At this point, he hasn't put forward any kind of read on me at all. In addition, many of his posts up until this point (not to mention quite a few afterward) are pointless one-liners, or just generally non-contributing. The next thing he does is tell austin to read my filter as if I was scum (again, not argument put forward on his part - he is talking as if me being scum is a forgone conclusion). + Show Spoiler +On September 06 2012 07:18 austinmcc wrote: Show nested quote + Looking through his profile, I see his only other game was LIII. So he's at least played, although not with me. But he knows that some of the people in this game played that game, he played with them, he knows they are competent individuals with functioning brains.
It's the first time I've ever seen someone cling to something absolutely wrong in this manner. I have posted paranoid rants in two games, stuck by them for a while as possibilities, gotten upset if people wouldn't consider them as possibilities, but I didn't get like this.
Right now (and if Matt flips scum I will be more certain of the read) I can't help but read the whole thing like this: Matt got caught Ottoxlol tried to save him, without realizing how bad an idea it was Ottoxlol shortly realized how bad an idea it was A decent scum player told him right after he got caught looking very odd that he couldn't back off his defense, because then he'd look even scummier So he went full bore nuts, and that's why he won't listen to anyone or anything
It doesn't feel like he's just obtuse. At some point he'd get the message. It feels like he's clinging to this.
Do me a favor, and go read Gravan's filter as if he were a scum idiot Then he goes on to say that hap is on his scumlist for "coaching" me. + Show Spoiler +On September 06 2012 07:23 Hapahauli wrote: Show nested quote +
Null. Deal with it.
His posts/logic right now could come from either mafia or bad-townie. I don't have enough information to make a decision since hasn't posted much. Fortunately we have 48 hours to make a read on him.
yeah youre on my scum list so is gravan you openly coached him Afterwards, he includes doyouhas in this list. + Show Spoiler +filter On September 06 2012 07:27 imallinson wrote: Show nested quote +
I'd say Gravan looks real scummy right now. He attempted the same thing as Ottox, defending Matt by saying he was probably an assassin, but much more quietly and backed away as soon as he realised it was a bad idea. If anything that looks more scummy than Ottox at the moment.
THANK YOU. Go read Gravan's filter, and tell me if you don't find hapa coaching him? 2nd person I've caught him coaching that looks like scum with him (Doyouhas is the other) His next two posts that mention me go on to mention (offhandedly) the apparently obvious need to have me shot by a vig. Further, if you read his filter he is very non-comittal on the otto-defending-matt-and-generally-acting-scummy issue. His posts are passively worded and just softly agree with the flow of the thread at the time. However this to me does like bad and scummy: + Show Spoiler +On September 05 2012 09:38 Gravan wrote:First, the straightforward part. It seems to me that Matt is most likely an assassin, or a very careless player. As many have said before me, there is no case for him to do what he did from a town perspective. To me, it seems that if he were mafia or town, we would likely have seen at least some kind of attempt at an explanation - either to strengthen his fellow mafia by giving them 'towncred' as they jump on his bandwagon or to try to convince us we are making a mistake as a town blue. As an assassin, he could just be seeing his end and giving up - this is of course moot if he decides to put in his piece later. Since he is apparently not a random newbie (who is a random newb, anyway ?), and clearly likes to be an active player, it shouts assasinto me. Since it is day 1 and we only have so much information, we essentially have to lynch him anyway (even if we were nearly certain he is an assassin. At this time, I'll be throwing my vote his way. The post where I make my comments on the information currently present (as in, not to do with the matt bandwagon) is coming up later. I just wanted to put down somehing somewhat solid so thanI can start to develop a post hostory, watery as it might be. And the rest of his posts from there on does nothing to change this. If anything it does the opposite.
- Bill Murray. Havent forgot about him, still would like him lynched. In addition to my previous reason to vote on him (read my filter) I would like to add that it seems like hes trying to taunt us with his constant "you should have listened to me" and "I knew about them flipping green all the time". Trying to analyze a troll might be futile, but I see that more fitting a scummy troll than just a regular troll. Its like hes having fun and wants to push it as far as he can get for shits n' giggles.
- Strongandbig. Feeling his has gone a bit lately, and thats the problem. I pointed out in a previous post recently after I had joined about his non-committing posting. Theres a descent amount of post but very little scumhunting and committing to cases. And since then he hasnt really done anything except joining the wagon on Forumite and his posting quantity has gone down a bit. This kind of play fits very well with a mafia who wants to blend in and kinda knows how to do it without looking stupid (as opposed to Gravan) but still doesnt really add anything to the discussion of finding scum. If theres anyone I would like to see some extra discussion on when Im back, its S&B.
Some people has also mentioned Shady and Mav. I've already covered Mav very fast in a previous post that I have very little on him but I do think he posted townish a while back so still likely not gonna vote him. For now, I'll also say the same about Shady.
Grush - Id love to see some more pressure on him due to his stupid playstyle, but for now I dont see that happening and I really dont have much reason to believe him to be scummy over anyone else. Plus in the stupid playstyle category BM wins the scummy-looking award anyway.
And Rewok, you seriously need to start posting anything too and starting to reply to stuff people say to you if you want to avoid later lynching. You're absolutely doing shit atm, but you're saved by the fact that theres enough cases on others.
TLDR Im quite pro-lyncing Gravan and BM. And I would like to see some more discussion regarding S&B. If I am to vote anything else than that it will most likely be because of new info while Im gone.
Wee, Im learning to use red colours too to add to my arguments too! They totally look stronger than without them!
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