Newbie Mini Mafia XXIV - Page 5
Forum Index > TL Mafia |
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
| ||
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
You're assuming that all four of us are town, which is a very heavy assumption to be making at this point... We have to stick with YourHarry, as there is no longer the time needed to discuss and successfully vote switch. I still strongly feel we have the right candidate, and that with DarthPunk and myself on YourHarry scum is feeling forced to bus. TL;DR: One last time: we don't have the time to vote switch. | ||
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
Serously though: here's the problem...: Only SolarSail and Z-Boson have "checked in" recently... I am not going to vote switch now. I am voting my best read still, and nothing has changed in the last hour to change that read. If we were to last minute vote switch, we needed to agree on everyone being here the last hour. This never happened, so no. For the last last time I'm not vote switching now. | ||
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
I feel really fucking good right now. Well played YourHarry. Just know if you play like that as your town "meta" in the future I'm lynching you day one. YourHarry's flip provides a tremendous amount of information. Let's not waste any time using it to help us find the last two scum. | ||
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
You describe a desire to be more active. You can start by sharing your reasoning behind your scum suspect list you provided last night. | ||
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
I understand you need some sleep but you really need to consider the position you're in right now. You are among the top scum suspects for several of us here, so you should be doing everything in your power now to demonstrate how you are innocent. You have no problem rushing to defend yourself, but you still hesitate to provide any explanation for your scum reads. If you need a reminder, this post: On August 23 2012 02:04 Solarsail wrote: I've made my position clear already. Goodkarma is it and I'm voting for whoever he's voting for within reason because there's no way I could be a leader at this point and anything less than getting the whole town on side to vote for one person will mean last minute vote changes by mafia to kill someone for the win. Current read fwiw is Town: Goodkarma, Darthpunk, Z-boson No idea: Stutters Anti-town play: Golbat, Obvious, YourHarry Explain this ASAP. The longer you stall, the scummier you're looking. ##FOS: SolarSail | ||
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
This is not Night of the Mutes. Everyone needs to step forward and present their reads well before the night is over. We still can win, but only if everyone participates. @Scum: Feel free not to participate, as that will make you easier to spot . | ||
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
@Obvious: Explain to me why it is on day 3 you completely ignore my case on YourHarry, and jump from Golbat to Solarsail. And only when called out for it, you become the last to vote for YourHarry on day 3. And I would also like to know how SolarSail, who wasn't on your scum suspect list at all, becomes your top scum read, but only after DarthPunk tells you he's making a case on him. @Z-Boson: Explain to me why it is you felt it was so important to have a last-minute vote change at the end of day 3. It should be obvious that this looks like a desperate scum-motivated move, and yet you have failed to contribute anything at all after the day post. Lurking is the worst thing you could do for yourself right now. @Stutters: You are looking through filters right now... I fully expect you to write up a case on your top suspects soon. @SolarSail: On August 23 2012 09:24 Solarsail wrote: After you've finished going through the filters let me know if I've got to defend myself against anything, because tomorrow's gonna come down to me vs Obvious and I'd much rather be going through filters trying to find a third option, especially if Golbat somehow flips town and throws everything off. My play today was weak sheeping because I believed we had pretty much lost. I wasn't trying to put together a case of my own because it came down to whether goodkarma was right or not. Today I will be more active and more independent. Did I miss something? How did we narrow the scum suspects down to either Obvious or you? You need to explain this, after of course sharing your scum reads. We all know how important tonight is for town, so be warned: if you don't participate expect to be rewarded with an FOS and a likely vote. If you didn't know, failing to show your views right now is anti-town and serves only a scum agenda. In other words: There's no acceptable town-motivated bullshit excuse you can make up to get out of participating tonight without getting noticed. | ||
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
Just one more question: Would you mind sharing your top two scum reads? | ||
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
You're right this is a game. But as town the biggest part of this game is scumhunting, so you should agree that refusing to share your reads makes you look extra suspicious. I'm sorry, but what you've posted doesn't cut it. I want to see reasoning behind your reads, especially in the cases of: Z-Boson and Obvious. And as you're looking through Stutter's filter, you can post your read on him. | ||
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
There is an abundance of scum motive for forcing a vote switch. We'll leave it at that for now... But right now I'm not just interested in your defense. Show us you're helping us scumhunt by sharing your current reads! | ||
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
"Looking through filters," then afks. I expect more than this from you. Share your latest scum reads ASAP. | ||
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
Thanks for your case write-up. Would you mind explaining why you think Golbat is likely town? And you make it clear you feel SolarSail is scum. Who do you think the second scum would be? | ||
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
First thing's first: Obvious and DarthPunk both claimed RB day 3. There is one confirmed scum RB-er, but with two RB's that leaves a possible town RB. So here's my request: Town RB-er, block Z-Boson tonight. I will be describing my reasoning and reads in a bit, but for right now: just do it. Everyone should agree I am all but confirmed town right now, so please trust me on this. My reads and explanation will come in in a bit, but trust me when I say I have good reason to believe Z-Boson is scum. He's my top read right now. | ||
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
Going through my scum-reads, one by one: DarthPunk: Town. I'm most confident in my read on him, to the point where I'd laugh pretty hard if he was scum as I would have been completely fooled. YourHarry fishing to see if him and I were masons strengthens my read. Stutters: Town read. Semi-lurker, tunnels YourHarry days 2 and 3, on two occasions now "running to store and checking filter" with no followup. My take on him is that it is pretty obvious scum wasn't ready to bus YourHarry on day 2 given how easy Thrawn was to lynch. So while as scum he could have been trying to distance himself from YourHarry I feel it's unlikely. Golbat: Mega-lurker, has all but disappeared, kind of wish he was modkilled tbh. Originally a town read based off YourHarry vote on day 3. However, I neglected to remember how strong of a position I was in on day 3, so YourHarry's early vote could have in fact been a bus. Everything I saw originally indicated that YourHarry was gearing for a mislynch, but I forgot YourHarry's weak soft-defense of Golbat based on a night kill. This is highly inconsistent with everything else he'd said about Golbat at that point, and leads me to believe it is actually possible YourHarry and Golbat are both scum. Additionally, YourHarry seems to have given Golbat an abundance of special attention (defending his weak case points against YourHarry, and a soft anti-lurker crusade starting even day one) for a good deal of the game which doesn't make any sense given the level of Golbat's activity. Add to that he had to look at Golbat's filter after I pressured him on day 3, which makes no sense given how hard he was pushing the case. + Show Spoiler + I have one more thing to add here, which will be included in a follow-up post shortly. Z-Boson and SolarSail: I do put these two together as I feel one or the other is likely scum, but not both. Z-Boson's scummy behavior is related to the last minute vote switch request. I don't feel I need to spend much time discussing how ridiculous this was. Further, he conveniently FOS's me on day 3 right after my vote switch from Golbat to YourHarry. Again, this felt pretty ridiculous considering how established I had made myself as town. I don't visualize a townie doing that, especially in MYLO when everyone had to consolidate to lynch a scum. Then later that day, there is YourHarry's FOS on Z-Boson, who he had previously ignored pretty much all game. Others had made weaker arguments against him than Z-Boson's (in fact Stutters made the same "meta"-argument if I recall...), and he would let them slide. I don't understand an FOS here. It feels like a scum trying to distance himself from his buddy before he dies. Now onto Solarsail: There is so little this guy has actually contributed, but "sheeping" isn't inherantly scum behavior. The refusal to share his reads definitely makes him look scummier though. The only reason, honestly, I would conclude he's town is Z-Boson's last minute vote switch play. Z-Boson was like "I think they're both scum," but then tries really hard for a last minute vote switch. I mean come on... A vote switch only makes sense for scum if SolarSail is town. And in that sense, it's either Z-Boson or SolarSail. And I feel Z-Boson's behavior is far scummier, to the point that between the two Z-Boson is scum. Add to that that pretty much everyone is okay with a SolarSail lynch right now, and I think SolarSail's town (albeit a terrible one). Obvious: Getting a read on Obvious is the hardest thing for me to do right now. He's content to push for one lynch candidate at a time without really sharing his reads on anyone else. And his history in the game has been incredibly short. If I am to look at his incredibly lurky predecessor, he posts outside this thread some really ridiculous stuff that obviously is going to get him banned (he even gets warned first before doing it again). Town was in a pretty weak position when this happened, and I can't imagine him ragequitting as scum when scum was in such a strong position. I believe he got banned to leave game without consequences, and that he did so as a frustrated townie too lazy to defend himself. Therefore, I believe Obvious is town right now. | ||
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
| ||
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
Upon first asking Z-Boson for his reads: On August 24 2012 01:38 Z-BosoN wrote: [/b]-snip- Now, of course, he is in phase 3 He has assumed a VERY defensive position as soon as YH was lynched: No one had even said anything yet, and he assumes an exaggerated defensive stance. This sounds too much like a scum that is feeling cornered. What does he mean, by "if Golbat somehow flips town"? Is he expecting the nk to go on Golbat? Also, since I feel Golbat is most likely town, this could be a huge [u]scumslip -snip- But then he says: On August 24 2012 03:04 Z-BosoN wrote: @goodkarma I have no logical arguments for why I think Golbat is town. He doesn't care about the game, doesn't show any interest in posting, and the few posts that he has that I can analyze I deem are pretty neutral. He could just as well be scum or town, so let me correct myself: I have a neutral read on him, but think he is town because I feel Solar is scum and made a scumslip. Obvious has been under the radar, but he seems incredibly suspicious to me as well. This is clearly a scumslip. He is right that there is no logical argument to think that Golbat is town, but he decides to do it anyway. He then backs off his read and decides Golbat's a "neutral" read. Between this and the remainder of my case, it's pretty clear we've got our two remaining scum. | ||
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
I wish you would have contributed more earlier, but I'm glad you're here. Keep it coming @Obvious: More analysis please! I spent a lot of time coming to my conclusions. You can do better than a 2-line response. I know what you're capable of! | ||
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
I understand you have two games, but please contribute more when you have time, and preferably soon. The town could use the direction from the quality cases I know you can write. So in so many words, yes. | ||
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On August 24 2012 07:42 Z-BosoN wrote: You say you don't even need to explain why it makes me look suspicious. I say you do. Okay, here's why last minute vote switching is heavily scum motivated. As scum if you drive a mislynch you win. If Solar's town, scum would love to get the vote switched to him. And your motive for last minute switching is pretty poor. You describe YourHarry as a "strong scum read," yet you feel compelled to last minute switch your vote... Really? I have to explain this to you??? And if you can get just enough votes off YourHarry, with even one town on Solar you could have secured a lynch because of plurality rules. Taking advantage of a potentially afk townie and last minute switching, even would have been an option. There are so many ways scum could benefit from a last minute switch, and so few that town could (assuming you actually meant it when you said YourHarry was scum...) that this is a pretty ridiculous question. Ok, so it seems the MAIN thing that makes me scummy is my pressure to vote switch at the end. It's far from the main thing. There are several things I discuss in my case, including the timing of your FOS on me day 3 and YourHarry's FOS that makes most sense as a way to distance himself from you... Let me get this straight. At least one mafia member bussed YH. That much is for certain. You think that I, fearing for my partner, would decide to wait until the last minute to unvote him and go for Solar. WHY IN THE WORLD did I not go for solar as soon as it was tied up? Why in the world did I wait for it to be 5 votes to 1 on Solar for me to start acting? Because going for Solar that early on would make me look suspicious? As if I wouldn't think that sticking my neck out to attempt a very risky Solar lynch 1 hour and a half before nightfall is not? Okay so briefly let's get the timeline straight: 1) I vote YourHarry, 2) You FOS me, 3) Stutters votes YourHarry, 4) you vote YourHarry... Scum could and honestly probably should have bused the exact way that you did. With the YourHarry lynch gathering momentum it was better for scum to jump on it early than to just take it easy and let it happen. You would have looked even more suspicious getting on the bandwaggon late. You tried defending YourHarry at first, of course, by trying to undermine my leadership position by putting suspicion on me with an FOS. But when that wouldn't work, you HAD to get behind YourHarry as damage control. ALL THE PIECES FIT... And as for the Solar wagon, if Solar had gained momentum and you were around I'm certain you would have used that as a reason to jump on it. But the fact of the matter was there was me, and there was DarthPunk as pretty established town. If you went against either of us, you would have been under heavy suspicion, so when three vote momentum was gained on SolarSail and DarthPunk switched sides before you got back, you missed your "window of opportunity." Oh, and even better, you think that my plan, as scum, was to attack uncompromisingly my erratic and unpredictable partner all game long, bother making long and quoty posts on him, only to abruptly change my mind after I realize that all my work actually was gonna get him killed? You sure do like to make a point of this don't you? Haven't you mentioned this before in passing, without any real reason? On August 23 2012 07:58 Z-BosoN wrote: Well, let's see who is present. All of me, Obvious, you and Darthpunk are present. All of us still have one hour to switch. Are we sure we want to go through with YH? Emotions aside (I've been ranting against him and his posting all game, basically), the more I think about it, the more doubt I have. Especially considering how wishy-washy thrawn also was, and how much circumstantial evidence made him look guilty. It's as though you need us to know this... Scum can easily coordinate attacks on each other. In fact that you were so into attacking YourHarry without ever doing anything about it (like voting for him...) makes you look even more suspicious... This makes 0 sense to me. If I were scum and this was my plan, I would CERTAINLY join the Solar train as soon as it came out. It wouldn't give me 1/20th of the suspicion that my sticking my head out did (which, according to your theory, is generally what scums love to do), and would have a MUCH higher chance of working. Okay, already explained... But instead, you are naive and think that I was suddenly terrified of losing my partner in a already MYLO situation. Guys, don't be naive, this does not make the slightest of sense. The real scum is one who quietly voted for YourHarry without drawing up suspicion. Because guess what? One misslynch and the game still ends, we are not out of MYLO yet. Doing what I did, as scum, would seem like the stupidest shit anyone could do, it is completely unnecessary for a victory as scum right now. Do you HONESTLY think that is my brilliant plan? It's believable. Scum was close to the finish line. I find it completely plausible that scum would try to sway a mislynch on SolarSail to clinch the victory. If you said yes, then wow, I don't know what to say, you must be very biased. If you said "that's what he wants us to think", then your MAIN argument against lynching someone who has been heavy on the analysis and reads on players all game long is purely WIFOM. Also, your strategy for fishing evidence that is not there is pretty horrible. "Z-BosoN, please make your reads!" THen you skim it, nitpick one meaningless quote I didn't give the slightest shit to when I was writing, because that was not even close to the main point I was making, AND that was explained later, and throw the rest of it down the toilet. How bout you go back and read my post, unbiased, pretending it was one of your town reads that made it, and tell me why you think solar is town after a HUGE STASH of HARD EVIDENCE has been thrown in your way. In the case of Solar: Being a lurking, sheeping player (though definitely anti-town) is hardly a HUGE STASH of evidence, and could mean a townie or scum. You, on the other hand, have acted in such a way that would support a scum agenda... Also, please answer as logically and as precise as you can. I know your impulse is to go through this post and try to find something that "inequivocally" proves me scum and ignore the rest, but read it seriously and explain to me your EXACT reasoning as to why I'm most definitely scum. Point by point. I wasn't fishing for evidence. I legitimately wanted your reads. It was your chance to establish yourself as town... The quote I put in of yours regarding Golbat was cut out of your entire post, and so could be considered out of context. However, it remains that "Golbat is town because SolarSail is scum" is pretty weak reasoning. And that you also tried to be wishy-washy and go back on this instead of up-front explaining how you had a "town read" is pretty scummy behavior. It serves an agenda, as Golbat is even more guilty than SolarSail of lurking. So making him look less suspicious would serve the agenda of keeping him alive enough for a SolarSail lynch, which, if I am to trust my reads, would in fact be a mislynch and the end of the game. And let me upfront explain this too, as I'm sure it will at some point be brought up, regarding YourHarry's Golbat vote day 3: YourHarry softdefended Golbat and only made his vote after I pressured him. What's more, he called it a "pressure vote," meaning he had little conviction behind it... Look at the interactions between YourHarry and Golbat, as well as how he behaves when actually called out for defending Golbat day 3, and I'm confident you'll agree Golbat's likely the second scum. Unfortunately, due to time constraints that's all the detail I can go into right now, but the evidence is there if you look for it. | ||
| ||