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Mordanis
On August 03 2012 04:07 Mordanis wrote: Could you guys who are posting cases against me put what you think are scum motivations for my play? Because right now it just seems like you're looking at mistakes and calling it scummy without mentioning how it benefits scum or harms town. Basically, when you just sort of point things out and call them scummy without analysis of why it is scummy. It's hard to argue anything other than ad-hominem because there is no underlying reasoning for me to argue. Ta! If you don't understand your cases re-read them. The ways in which the cases against you imply a scum motivation are fairly obvious.
You aren't defending yourself and it seems that you are trying to stall having to address the cases against you. you haven't said anything apart from distancing yourself from the prom lynch before he even flipped green. This has come after you posted analysis on him and voted for him. I should need to repeat myself ad nauseum whilst all you do is deflect and stall actually having to defend yourself.
Something jumped out at me whilst I quickly read through the thread.
On August 03 2012 08:39 Mordanis wrote: EBWOP: Hey Obvious, do you want to weigh in on this discussion? I feel kind of weird that you're tunneling GK with an OMGUS with what I feel is a pretty good discussion. Your thoughts would be appreciated.
then shortly afterwards this.
On August 03 2012 09:56 goodkarma wrote: What I'm trying to get at here is: There's so much suspicion on him he looks less suspicious to me. It's a bit WIFOM, but I'm going to make the assumption (and it's a big one) that up until this point no scum has mounted a strong attack against one of his buddies. To this end, I don't think Mordanis is mafia, but rather a town that's played poorly. I understand how long it can take to post cases of the length that Mordanis likes to, and can genuinely understand his claim that he was busy day 2, which would explain his inactivity. His sometimes wishy-washy stances definitely are not very pro-town, but right now I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.
Besides the fact this makes Mord more suspicious (he has been under suspicion since day one and yet has survived two lynches) you both seem very coordinated in defending one another. You seem to be defending him on what you admit is assumptions and WIFOM. This is doing nothing but casting doubt on the very good cases against Mordanis which still have not been answered and are BEING IGNORED like the day one cases on him were. This is really weak and I don't see a Town motivation for you to use WIFOM and assumptions to cast doubt on strong cases that have not been answered once again.
But this is not the first time you have defended mordanis whilst he was collecting votes was it?
On July 27 2012 15:12 goodkarma wrote:I'm hesitant to join the Mordanis lynch bandwagon. Mordanis's arguements were definitely incredibly flimsy, but I find it hard to believe that a mafia would stick his neck out that far when it seems many successful mafia are content to stick their heads in the sand. His opening statement indicates he desires to start a hunt for who's mafia: Show nested quote +On July 27 2012 07:43 Mordanis wrote: Rather than sitting in a circle and deciding whom to lynch based on who sing "Kum ba yah, My Lord" the most off key (what kind of villainous scum would do such a thing?), I think its time to begin the scumhunt. Anyways, I apologize in advance if this seems somewhat rushed. I want to get the hunt going as early as possible, and I feel we've wasted the first hour and a half. So without further ado, here comes (hopefully) the first case of the game: It's also worth noting he has not yet explicitly voted for who he accused. I don't feel we can find that guy with one flimsy lynch arguement and assume he's guilty, especially when it's the first arguement of the game. I don't see him having any investment in who's accused if he's really mafia, especially when most day one lynchings tend to hit town.
The Solitary argument day 1 that did not involve you discussing or defending your policy lynch plan was defending mordanis after he had some votes on him. The very next time you do it again.
You say that you have casted suspicion on mordanis and that means he could not be Scum. and yet looking through your filter
On August 02 2012 05:39 goodkarma wrote: So, there are some of my early thoughts. Based solely off of the voting history, I find the following people's actions suspicious: alan133, Shady Sands, Mordanis, Ange, and Darthpunk. I will be closely reviewing the filters for these people, and will have a more refined case writeup in day 3 (assuming I'm not NK'ed) for those whose actions turn out to be inconsistent.
The only time you have even mentioned mordanis in your filter outside of defending him is to lump him in a group of 4 other people, enough to say that you have cast suspicion on him when he flips red, (which you already using in your fallacious argument in his defense) yet including four others so that you do not actually draw attention to him.
FoS Goodkarma
##Vote: Mordanis
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On August 03 2012 11:13 goodkarma wrote: Shady Sands is now confirmed town. He is the only person right now that everyone can trust without suspicion of alterior motives. To secure the majority and lynch a scum today, he needs to step up and tell everyone clearly who he plans to vote for and why.
And everyone needs to vote for that person, regardless of if that's the "strongest read" they have or not.
This is the only way we can guarantee a town majority that can lynch scum at this point.
OK What the Fuck? So if we mislynch we have no information whatsoever because everyone just votes for one person regardless of their read. This is Fucking Retarded. This is trying to limit discussion 16 hours out from vote.
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To add to my previous case. [QUOTE]On August 03 2012 11:13 goodkarma wrote: As I've already highlighted, I do not believe Mordanis is the best lynch choice. In my opinion, the two best candidates right now are: aRyuujin and Zorkmid.
[QUOTE]On August 03 2012 11:13 goodkarma wrote: I know that Shady has voted Mordanis, but I'm giving him time to reaffirm or change his vote before I commit to changing mine[/quote]
So After Mord has roughly 4 votes you concoct a gambit to make everyone vote for who shady votes for regardless of what they want. Then you heavily imply that he should change his vote on mord.
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EBWOP - Formatting
To add to my previous case.
On August 03 2012 11:13 goodkarma wrote: As I've already highlighted, I do not believe Mordanis is the best lynch choice. In my opinion, the two best candidates right now are: aRyuujin and Zorkmid.
On August 03 2012 11:13 goodkarma wrote: I know that Shady has voted Mordanis, but I'm giving him time to reaffirm or change his vote before I commit to changing mine
So After Mord has roughly 4 votes you concoct a gambit to make everyone vote for who shady votes for regardless of what they want. Then you heavily imply that he should change his vote on mord.
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EBWOP: I strongly encourage everyone to read through GK's filter and notice that mord being a massive focus of debate consistently, he does not mention him when not defending him from day one(impossible to have a cop check) onwards.
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on zorkmid
There is a case on Zork. I just feel like it is weaker than the case on Mordanis. Add that to the fact that mord is once again ad hearing to his Modus Operandi.
On August 02 2012 15:04 Shady Sands wrote: He's set up a rhythm here: find a weakness that isn't directly related to being scummy (newbieness and past play), second an accusation, then sit back and watch the fireworks, and possibly set up a (mis)lynch for the next day if possible. All this smacks of a very aggressive scum play. That once again it seems like he is getting out of a lynch despite the mountain of evidence against him and without even addressing the cases against him. (which he has never done) and the fact that GK seems to be colluding to defend him, to me, without a doubt, mord is [r]scum[/r].
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On August 03 2012 14:21 goodkarma wrote:So what you're saying here, in other words, is: "I really like my case and anyone who doesn't agree with me is therefore against me. It's time I throw you under a bus..."
No. That is not what I am saying. I am saying that your reasoning behind defending Mord was, by your own admission, assumption and WIFOM. None of the cases on Mord have actually been answered. And your reasoning in your defense of him was essentially that he was too suspicious. I don't think is need to explain to you how null that argument is.
On August 03 2012 14:21 goodkarma wrote: I NEVER said that Mords's actions weren't suspicious, or that his play couldn't fit the play of a scum. However, I just don't see this compelling, damning evidence you seem to that shows that Mord is guilty. And as best I can see, the only way to truly "answer a case" is to lynch the guy. Mord is suspicious, but I feel that he is not the best candidate. And we don't have the luxury of another mislynch. No, but you have never said anything specific to the case against Mord beside defending him twice immediately after he accumulated more than 1 vote. Otherwise you have ignored him. Completely. Despite the large amount of discussion around him. I am not going to bother arguing with you on the evidence against Mord as you seem to be dead set on defending him. There are several cases against him. none of them have been answered. Read them.
On August 03 2012 14:21 goodkarma wrote: I have already conceded there might be some WIFOM in my Mord argument, so I can't see why you take such an aggressive stance. Especially since town's role is to get to the truth, not to persecute someone until lynch. My arguement brings more to the table to consider in the Mord case, and more information is always better than less.
You have added no new information but WIFOM and speculation. your only posts on mord have been defending him since day 1 without any reasoning behind the defense, apart from that there are better candidates right now. Yet instead of posting cases on those you consider to have better cases you have only talked policy lynching lurkers. Your cases have continued to be on lurkers, and any posts not on lynching lurkers was defending mordanis really aggressively.
On August 03 2012 14:21 goodkarma wrote: That being said: I don't expect that mafia in a noobie game are going to make really sophisticated plays, like trying to bus each other, and that's why I still feel my new analysis on Mord. is relevant. Sorry if you can't see it that way.
Since when was WIFOM and speculation 'analysis'? You yourself admit that mord seems scummy and could be scummy yet you are defending him and quite vigorously without addressing the cases against him at all or saying anything but: He seems scummy and could be scum but he is too suspicious. and then proceed to chainsaw defend him.
TLDR You have Ignored Mordanis entirely unless defending him. your entire defense consists of WIFOM and Speculation.
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On August 03 2012 14:50 goodkarma wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2012 12:57 DarthPunk wrote:on zorkmidThere is a case on Zork. I just feel like it is weaker than the case on Mordanis. Add that to the fact that mord is once again ad hearing to his Modus Operandi. On August 02 2012 15:04 Shady Sands wrote: He's set up a rhythm here: find a weakness that isn't directly related to being scummy (newbieness and past play), second an accusation, then sit back and watch the fireworks, and possibly set up a (mis)lynch for the next day if possible. All this smacks of a very aggressive scum play. That once again it seems like he is getting out of a lynch despite the mountain of evidence against him and without even addressing the cases against him. (which he has never done) and the fact that GK seems to be colluding to defend him, to me, without a doubt, mord is [r]scum[/r]. There is a case on Zorkmid... At least we can agree with me on that. Your out-of-nowhere conspiracy theory, though, to use Prox's words, is "Pants-on-Head Retarded." I give the town a winning strategy: Get behind a (confirmed town!) leader so we can come to a consensus and lynch a scum. This is something that no intelligent scum would do when without leadership all they need to do to win right now is sit in one spot and lurk around. Your strategy, on the other hand, seems to be: Mord. way, or the highway + Show Spoiler +(clever, huh? ) . That you completely disregard the merits of my strategy, and then tunnel vision on your target when there are multiple scum reads right now (even by your estimation) is something I find suspicious. Mafia only needs one more mislynch to secure LYLO for town the rest of the game. As scum, even if you're open about lynching Mord., and next turn are caught for it, town has to be right three consecutive times. This is even harder if at any step of the way Shady gets picked off. Your accusations are coming on way too strong, way too fast to fit as a concerned town. Add to that your tunnel vision towards Mord, and the fact mafia pretty much wins this with one more mislynch: #FoS DarthPunkAll I hope is that Shady can rally everyone behind a candidate in time. And if he doesn't contribute any new discussion soon, I will be changing my vote to Mord to coincide with his. Even though I don't feel he's the strongest scum candidate, he definitely has done some scummy things, and to catch a scum at this time town needs to unite together. I recommend everyone to follow Shady's vote, as he's the only person right now town can trust. You may call it sheeping, but what's even worse is town sticks with their own scum reads on 2+ people, mafia lols, and no scum get lynched. TL;DR: United we stand. Divided we fall...
Let me Illustrate why I disagree with your 'plan' of everyone vote who shady votes. I feel that this is MORE LIKELY to lead to a mislynch. You are taking away the power of our votes. you a reducing the robustness of the town by removing their tools (read their Vote) to find scum. It is a lot easier for scum if they know the outcome of a vote by reading one players position. It is a lot easier for scum to manipulate the vote of one player. A robust discussion with the ability to vote for your strongest read is to my mind a lot more valuable than a plan for the entire town to sheep one player. This sort of plan reeks of anti town play.
On August 03 2012 14:50 goodkarma wrote: I give the town a winning strategy: Get behind a (confirmed town!) leader so we can come to a consensus and lynch a scum. This is something that no intelligent scum would do when without leadership all they need to do to win right now is sit in one spot and lurk around.
It is great to have a confirmed town. and certainly you should give weight to his opinions. But I hardly call your plan a 'town winning strategy' blindly sheeping Shady Sands will reduce discussion because what point is there in making cases if we just blindly sheep one player?
The main arguement you seem to be making is that because the town is divided [b]Right now[/b] we need to sheep shady. None of us are stupid. i have stated before and have stated again. If it comes down to a situation in which i am required to alter my vote in order to prevent a no lynch I will do that. So will everyone else here.
The rest of your case against me seems to be OMGUS. I am pursuing Mord as he is by far my strongest read. The cases against him have not been answered and his quietly sitting behind the zorkmid case that ange777 made and "watching the fireworks" as shady put it.
On August 03 2012 14:50 goodkarma wrote:Your strategy, on the other hand, seems to be: Mord. way, or the highway + Show Spoiler +(clever, huh? ) . That you completely disregard the merits of my strategy, and then tunnel vision on your target when there are multiple scum reads right now (even by your estimation) is something I find suspicious. Do you want me to cast suspicion on the entire town? It seems you have a vested interest in me discontinuing my case against mord. As I have said before I will alter my vote to prevent a no lynch or if i feel another case is stronger than the case on mord. I will not however, apologise for going after my strongest scum read and continuing to do so when he has not contributed an adequate defense.
If you want to bring any real cases against me or anyone else I will be happy to read them and respond. That would be preferable to your posting today which has contained a chainsaw defense of mordanis, OMGUS, WIFOM and your 'town saving' let's sheep shady sands initiative.
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On August 03 2012 15:23 Mordanis wrote: A final note to DP: I really don't hate you. But your play has been incredibly obnoxious (Really, you've been focused only on me except for a brief interlude pushing a case on Prom) to me and your refusal to even clarify your argument and your ignoring of what I have posted in defence and calling it weak without explaining is at best rude, at worst rude and incredibly arrogant. Hopefully you'll stop acting to this way, and if not then I guess I'll just have to avoid you, because I don't like people who are mean for the sake of being mean. Please read the part in the OP where it says "This means you play your best to help your team win while you are alive and in the game. However, this does not mean that you should try to win by being a jerk to the other players so they all want to quit playing."
Before I address your post I wanted to respond to this, because I feel really bad about it. To Mord and anyone else that may be offended by my posting I apologise. To me this is a game and when I attack peoples posts I am just attacking their posts in the game, not them personally. I don't hate anyone here at all. Far from it. I am trying my best to play the game. Follow my reads etc. I really do not want to upset or offend anyone. And I especially do not want to make the game so unfun for people that they wish to stop playing. If whilst I pursue scum and make cases and counter cases etc. I come across that way, I once again apologise. Perhaps this is not the game for me.
I will continue playing this game out. I am a friendly guy in real life but if this is a consistent feeling amongst all the players here then I do not like making others feel bad and therefore this will probably be my last game.
Nonetheless. I am going to read your post and respond.
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On August 03 2012 15:23 Mordanis wrote: So your claim to have been watching me the entire time. You jumped on my bandwagon before the cycle I was even lynched. Sweet. And yet you completely ignored me for the entirety of D2 while pushing your case on Prom. A case which was really weak. Why would you ignore someone you thought was scum for an entire 2 cycles (N2 also). Strange.
Although this doesn't address the cases against you I will respond. I posted about you several times during day 2. They are contained within the case you quoted. I don't like to post much during night cycles as all it does is give mafia additional information upon which they can make a night kill. We can't lynch at night so I don't see the point in showing your hand.
On August 03 2012 15:23 Mordanis wrote: I have no fucking clue what you mean about the case about my play D1. You say I lead the lynch hard and call that scummy but also call my suspicion of SS and my "lack of contribution" scummy. WTF does this mean. Then you call me retarded. Right.
This has all been stated previously. But you seem to want me to state it all gain so here goes.
The thing scummy with your day one play is that you lead the mislynch of Golbat for pretty much the entire day. After the bandwagon had started rolling you said that you read obvious' filter from the previous game and that convinced you enough that Golbat was townie that you unvoted him. You then second the position of others and voted Shady Sands without basing it on reasoning or adding anything to the case.
The reason I believe this is scummy You lead a mislynch then once the ball was rolling you switched voted onto someone elses case. I believe you did that in order to distance you self from the mislynch and to set up a potential mis-lynch day 2. After receiving pressure from this turn of events from myself and Keirathi. you revert to your original position on Golbat. You were still one of the last to vote for golbat, despite leading his mislynch and amidst the confusion i believe you achieved your goal. To lead a mislynch on golbat whilst attempting to distance yourself from it, and potentially set up a mislynch on shady sands for the following cycle. I Have stated this a few times. I apologise if it was not clear enough to understand.
On August 03 2012 15:23 Mordanis wrote: DP again misreads my post on Prom. I said I was confused by his play, I did not say it was scummy. You posted a case on him and stated he was mildly scummy. Furthermore you were incredibly wishy-washy in your conclusion. Which is the main thing that is scummy because it was a dramatic shift in style from your day 1 play and allowed you to follow the position of others without sticking your neck out.
On July 31 2012 19:10 Mordanis wrote: Essentially, from what I've read about XIX Promethelax kind of mauled town by getting into the "town circle", and controlling the game from there. I don't think a smart person could try the same strategy against people its already been used on and expect to win again. For that reason, Promethelax's inconsistent/illogical/ seems to be a mild indicator of scumminess. Also, being relatively inactive during one day reduces the amount of stuff any player needs to defend himself later.
Edit before having to double post (EBHTDP) I am still confused by large parts of his play. For instance the part about lynching semi-lurkers seems sort of like what he's doing. GK hasn't posted nearly as many times as Prom himself, myself, Keir, Ange, Obvious, or Shady. 6 players of 12 left have 3 or more pages in their filter, the other 6 have 2. GK has spent a lot of his time defending himself, so if you take that away he's pretty lurky. But the caffeine is wearing off now, see y'all in the morning. Still, I like the content he generated with that post on GK, so I'll be watching Prom closely. I seriously need to pass out now though :/[/QUOTE]
On August 03 2012 15:23 Mordanis wrote: DP then goes on to say that my not wanting to vote without information is scummy. Why? Scum know the flip, and with their handy-dandy knowledge of who's who its a lot easier to understand peoples' play. Who is killed doesn't matter as much to scum either because as long as it furthers their goal of remaining undetected, they are happy with the result. They keep their kp. Town, on the other hand, gets only one vote for one lynch per day. With very limited information, trying to get information before voting seems rather more suited towards town play than scum.
I disagree. You had all day to review the thread, filters and to post cases. Yet the posts you made were very wishy-washy. etc and non-committal. Waiting to see who others will vote for is scummy behaviour because it allows you to just join the most popular bandwagon in order to seem less conspicuous. Which is Exactly what you did in the end. During your vote you were wishy-washy and it seemed you were distancing yourself from the mislynch. I feel like what i have already posted on this topic makes sense. If you didn't think prox was scum why did you vote for him? If you did why were you so wishywashy and attempt to distance yourself from the lynch before he flipped the elegant solution is that you knew he was going to flip green and wanted to distance yourself from the mislynch but still ensure it happened. Therefore I feel it is scummy.
On August 03 2012 15:23 Mordanis wrote: Again DP completely ignores what he just posted on me to build his nonsensical case on me. The previous thing that he called me out for being wishy-washy is my reason for thinking the lynch on Prom was a bad choice. Prom's play was confusing, but it didn't help scum really. He called me out for thinking it was a weak case but ignores my explanation for why and then calls me out for not explaining why I thought it was a weak case. Wow, that logic seemed pretty circular.
Long story short, the few things in this case that might seem weird have no justification for why they are scummy, and the rest is DP citing one short period of time and calling me out for doing one thing and the opposite of that thing. DP is either too busy eating glue to think, too biased to think critically, or scum. I really don't understand this argument at all really. This is not true at all. I thought the cases on you were quite clear and I didn't feel the need to repeat the cases against you again. Your explanations I feel have not been adequate and seem to confirm you are scum because your defense of the case against you has been a mess. Others can understand the points and cases against you. I just assumed you would too.
(as I said previously I am sorry if you feel I have been/am being rude and obnoxious towards you. I am just arguing my case it is not personal)
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ugh. formatting error again. ignore that.
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EBWOP - Formatting
On August 03 2012 16:50 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2012 15:23 Mordanis wrote: So your claim to have been watching me the entire time. You jumped on my bandwagon before the cycle I was even lynched. Sweet. And yet you completely ignored me for the entirety of D2 while pushing your case on Prom. A case which was really weak. Why would you ignore someone you thought was scum for an entire 2 cycles (N2 also). Strange. Although this doesn't address the cases against you I will respond. I posted about you several times during day 2. They are contained within the case you quoted. I don't like to post much during night cycles as all it does is give mafia additional information upon which they can make a night kill. We can't lynch at night so I don't see the point in showing your hand. Show nested quote +On August 03 2012 15:23 Mordanis wrote: I have no fucking clue what you mean about the case about my play D1. You say I lead the lynch hard and call that scummy but also call my suspicion of SS and my "lack of contribution" scummy. WTF does this mean. Then you call me retarded. Right. This has all been stated previously. But you seem to want me to state it all gain so here goes. The thing scummy with your day one play is that you lead the mislynch of Golbat for pretty much the entire day. After the bandwagon had started rolling you said that you read obvious' filter from the previous game and that convinced you enough that Golbat was townie that you unvoted him. You then second the position of others and voted Shady Sands without basing it on reasoning or adding anything to the case. The reason I believe this is scummy You lead a mislynch then once the ball was rolling you switched voted onto someone elses case. I believe you did that in order to distance you self from the mislynch and to set up a potential mis-lynch day 2. After receiving pressure from this turn of events from myself and Keirathi. you revert to your original position on Golbat. You were still one of the last to vote for golbat, despite leading his mislynch and amidst the confusion i believe you achieved your goal. To lead a mislynch on golbat whilst attempting to distance yourself from it, and potentially set up a mislynch on shady sands for the following cycle. I Have stated this a few times. I apologise if it was not clear enough to understand. Show nested quote +On August 03 2012 15:23 Mordanis wrote: DP again misreads my post on Prom. I said I was confused by his play, I did not say it was scummy. You posted a case on him and stated he was mildly scummy. Furthermore you were incredibly wishy-washy in your conclusion. Which is the main thing that is scummy because it was a dramatic shift in style from your day 1 play and allowed you to follow the position of others without sticking your neck out. Show nested quote +On July 31 2012 19:10 Mordanis wrote: Essentially, from what I've read about XIX Promethelax kind of mauled town by getting into the "town circle", and controlling the game from there. I don't think a smart person could try the same strategy against people its already been used on and expect to win again. For that reason, Promethelax's inconsistent/illogical/ seems to be a mild indicator of scumminess. Also, being relatively inactive during one day reduces the amount of stuff any player needs to defend himself later.
Edit before having to double post (EBHTDP) I am still confused by large parts of his play. For instance the part about lynching semi-lurkers seems sort of like what he's doing. GK hasn't posted nearly as many times as Prom himself, myself, Keir, Ange, Obvious, or Shady. 6 players of 12 left have 3 or more pages in their filter, the other 6 have 2. GK has spent a lot of his time defending himself, so if you take that away he's pretty lurky. But the caffeine is wearing off now, see y'all in the morning. Still, I like the content he generated with that post on GK, so I'll be watching Prom closely. I seriously need to pass out now though :/ Show nested quote +On August 03 2012 15:23 Mordanis wrote: DP then goes on to say that my not wanting to vote without information is scummy. Why? Scum know the flip, and with their handy-dandy knowledge of who's who its a lot easier to understand peoples' play. Who is killed doesn't matter as much to scum either because as long as it furthers their goal of remaining undetected, they are happy with the result. They keep their kp. Town, on the other hand, gets only one vote for one lynch per day. With very limited information, trying to get information before voting seems rather more suited towards town play than scum. I disagree. You had all day to review the thread, filters and to post cases. Yet the posts you made were very wishy-washy. etc and non-committal. Waiting to see who others will vote for is scummy behaviour because it allows you to just join the most popular bandwagon in order to seem less conspicuous. Which is Exactly what you did in the end. During your vote you were wishy-washy and it seemed you were distancing yourself from the mislynch. I feel like what i have already posted on this topic makes sense. If you didn't think prox was scum why did you vote for him? If you did why were you so wishywashy and attempt to distance yourself from the lynch before he flipped the elegant solution is that you knew he was going to flip green and wanted to distance yourself from the mislynch but still ensure it happened. Therefore I feel it is scummy. Show nested quote +On August 03 2012 15:23 Mordanis wrote: Again DP completely ignores what he just posted on me to build his nonsensical case on me. The previous thing that he called me out for being wishy-washy is my reason for thinking the lynch on Prom was a bad choice. Prom's play was confusing, but it didn't help scum really. He called me out for thinking it was a weak case but ignores my explanation for why and then calls me out for not explaining why I thought it was a weak case. Wow, that logic seemed pretty circular.
Long story short, the few things in this case that might seem weird have no justification for why they are scummy, and the rest is DP citing one short period of time and calling me out for doing one thing and the opposite of that thing. DP is either too busy eating glue to think, too biased to think critically, or scum. I really don't understand this argument at all really. This is not true at all. I thought the cases on you were quite clear and I didn't feel the need to repeat the cases against you again. Your explanations I feel have not been adequate and seem to confirm you are scum because your defense of the case against you has been a mess. Others can understand the points and cases against you. I just assumed you would too. (as I said previously I am sorry if you feel I have been/am being rude and obnoxious towards you. I am just arguing my case it is not personal)
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On August 03 2012 15:56 goodkarma wrote: @DarthPunk:
I read Mord.'s terrible Keir arguement during the opening of the game, and I have seen his wishy-washy, noncommital arguements against people such as Prox. I agree with the cases brought against him. His actions certainly have made him look scummy, but I feel they are being taken into consideration without considering if he could play the same way as town. Look at where "scum reads" have gotten us days one and two.
Golbat and Prox., in my opinion, played town terribly. But just as much as it was their responsibility to prove their innocence, it was ours to determine if their motivations could fit those of a townie playing badly. While I agree that Mord. could very well be scum, from what I've seen he could also be a town that isn't playing very well. Since that perspective hasn't been contributed by others, that is what I've brought to the "Mord. case." And as for my statistics: feel free to call it speculation, but if I'm right there are scum that have also contributed to the case against him and want him lynched.
As for pursuing lurky-type persons? There are about three "lurkers," all of which have acted suspiciously (aRyuujin, Zork, JingleHell), and three mafia. There is no reason to assume that all mafia this game couldn't be "lurkers." Feel free to call me biased toward only lurkers, but remember I've also made a case against Prox who definitely wasn't a lurker in day 2.
On the other hand, you are definitely biased toward only finding "loud scum." And there's no guarantee scum in the "loud" category even exist this game. The bottom line: scum is scum, no matter where they come from. My strongest reads happen to come from the "lurker" category right now. I have made what I feel to be a strong case against aRyuujin, and have added to the case against Zork. I encourage you to read what I've written on them, and tell me exactly why it is my case is weaker than your Mord. case.
And I am 100% certain that aRyuujin, specifically, will not contribute any more than he already has. Everything about his play screams scum to me, perhaps just as much as everything about Mord. seems to scream scum to you. And unlike everyone else here, no further evidence is going to come up to convince others that hasn't shown already since he has become methodical with his "rehash arguement, make FoS, later make vote" routine. I feel justified in pushing my case for his lynch today, because I know that if he is scum (and I'm quite sure he is), and it gets to LYLO he will get a free pass thanks to people like you, and will be able to passively win the game.
Ok I will read through them now and get back to you. This post is alot better as it doesn't contain WIFOM or speculation. Those things really rub me the wrong way.
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EBWOP
sure thing I was getting to those anyway.
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OK it seems like I will have to go through filters to make sense of it. BRB.
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On August 03 2012 17:25 goodkarma wrote: @Shady, wherever you are: I hope you have good reason to be away from these forums...
We need 6/7 town to get lynch majority... With our current division, I just don't see that happening... I still believe that banding together around Shady was our best chance, and I hope he returns to provide his impressions with the most recently presented cases.
I feel very uneasy about voting Mord. On top of the reasons I've already presented, aRyuujin, my top scum suspect, has also gotten onto that bandwaggon.
If Shady comes back and decides Mord. is still his best choice, then fine. Until then:
b]##unvote ##Vote: Zorkmid
Zorkmid is an obvious scum. I sincerely hope that Darthpunk will change his vote. Even then, I can't help but feel that town is in trouble here. -_-
I will be checking this forum again before the deadline, and will only consider changing my vote to one of the following to achieve a majority lynch: aRyuujin, JinglHells, or Shady's choice (if he ever provides an update post). Good luck all... [/b]
Can I just clarify before you leave why you are voting for Zork if Aryuujin is your top scum read. also. SEE waiting around for shady sands to see who to vote for is ridiculous. I am SO GLAD you are going back on that.
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Could I have a vote count please!
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On August 03 2012 00:17 Zorkmid wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2012 00:00 DarthPunk wrote: @ ange777.
The zork scumslip combined with his lurky posting habits are certainly cause for suspicion. I don't like his explanation for the statement. He is saying that he looks at certain posts through different roles but does not actually explain the slip at all. What was he trying to say there? It was WIFOM pure and simple. He has not answered the case on him adequately and he has not provided much in the way of cases. What are you talking about? I honestly can't see how one person, let alone two people would see this as a slip. Let me walk you through what I assumed to be pretty straight forward logic. I believe that no smart green or blue would have made the post that Prom did....but he did, hence I thought that he may be red. I'm speculating on the meaning of Prom's actions based on what I would do, nothing more, nothing less. I think that most people followed this logic just fine, as it contributed to Prom's mis-lynch. Show nested quote +On August 03 2012 00:00 DarthPunk wrote:The problem with both Zorkmid and aRyuujin is that there is so little to actually make a read from. I don't post as often as many players, but at least what I do post has some thought behind it.
Ok my analysis - ignoring the scum slip which I will get to later.
Zork is playing really badly. He is playing really badly as town OR as scum. He has been confused more than once as to what is happening in the game, who he has suspicions on etc. On July 31 2012 22:02 Zorkmid wrote: I honestly just forgot about SS, but your accusation has led me to go back through his filter. I've noticed that he has never addressed my accusation about him.
On August 03 2012 00:17 Zorkmid wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2012 00:00 DarthPunk wrote: @ ange777.
The zork scumslip combined with his lurky posting habits are certainly cause for suspicion. I don't like his explanation for the statement. He is saying that he looks at certain posts through different roles but does not actually explain the slip at all. What was he trying to say there? It was WIFOM pure and simple. He has not answered the case on him adequately and he has not provided much in the way of cases. What are you talking about? I honestly can't see how one person, let alone two people would see this as a slip. Let me walk you through what I assumed to be pretty straight forward logic. I believe that no smart green or blue would have made the post that Prom did....but he did, hence I thought that he may be red. I'm speculating on the meaning of Prom's actions based on what I would do, nothing more, nothing less. I think that most people followed this logic just fine, as it contributed to Prom's mis-lynch. Show nested quote +On August 03 2012 00:00 DarthPunk wrote:The problem with both Zorkmid and aRyuujin is that there is so little to actually make a read from. I don't post as often as many players, but at least what I do post has some thought behind it. Which makes me tend to believe him when he says that he is not paying attention to the thread because of IRL commitments. Because why? what are the scum motivations behind his posts? This is still bad play and hurts town. As I said earlier It isn't easy to get a scum read when there has been so little activity from him. His posts make no sense as either scum or town. He is Lurking though. If we get to LYLO and we have nothing to go off in terms of reads that is a major liability.
on the scum slip. @ange777 I don't think your logic is as iron clad as you believe.
On July 31 2012 22:46 Zorkmid wrote: I also think that your "relief post" is strange. It's sort of WIFOM, but I don't think that as a green or blue I would ever post something like that. It's just yelling out "I'm A TOWNIE huehuehue". I wouldn't post it because it reeks of redness
What I think he is trying to say is this. He thinks saying this is scummy. No town player would need to say this, he is town so he wouldn't say it.
It is WIFOM and speculation and is written poorly. (which I hate) yet can't see a scum motivation or plan for this. It is possible that he is scum and that this is the evidence. It is also possible that he is bad at explaining himself, a poor writer and you are reading too much into this.
Your entire case is based around reading a few statements a certain way, and thus seems to be weaker than my case on mordanis and weaker than your case on mordanis (that you seem to have dropped off the face of the earth).
If it comes to a no lynch situation I will be willing to change my vote. (as everyone should be) but at this time the cases on Mordanis are far stronger.
If people are set on lynching lurky players aRyuujin is a stronger lynch IMO. He has less than a one page filter he votes Golbat day 1. went AFK for 2 cycles comes back and puts a vote on mord that just echos my position and then leaves again. I wish we still had a Vig cause aRyuujin has been and will increasingly become a serious liability.
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When I first saw it last night I saw it the same way that you do, but then I read this.
On August 03 2012 00:17 Zorkmid wrote: I believe that no smart green or blue would have made the post that Prom did....but he did, hence I thought that he may be red. I'm speculating on the meaning of Prom's actions based on what I would do, nothing more, nothing less.
This whilst far from enough to convince me of his innocence, IS a plausible explanation of his slip. I am not comfortable with risking a mislynch on a player based off reading one sentence a certain way when there is a plausible explanation which can cause it to be looked at in a different way. Remember the last 'scumslip' in this game. With golbat? I don't want a repeat of that. So I need more than the perceived Scumslip to go off on Zorkmid. The rest of the case is much less developed.
1. semi-lurking 2. posting inconsistently 3. waiting for cases to sheep
These are all true. And I have read his filter several times. However, as I have said before, I feel the cases on mordanis are much stronger.
In terms of the MrMedic thing that you have mentioned a few times. I noticed reading through his filter that he was actually talking about aRyuujin in the post you referenced.
as I stated previously I can't see any logical motivation to his posting. Although I don't see how having little if any defense at all on a case against him proves his motive one way or another. If he wrote a disproportionate amount in his defense and on closer inspection it contained nothing of substance that would give me a definite scum vibe. but no defense at all? I can't see that helping scum OR town.
If we are going to lynch a lurker which seems to be the other main argument against Zorkmid I would rather lynch the player with a 1 page filter than the one with a 3 page filter.
As for the thing with jingle. I will need to read through it again.
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Yeah I know he said the wrong person. He is very confused and constantly make mistakes. But if you replace prom with GK the intent behind it is Plausible.
On August 03 2012 01:55 Zorkmid wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2012 14:20 aRyuujin wrote: Im so sorry I completely forgot to vote -.- My bad, I knew i would be busy but I didn't put up a vote before hand like I did day 1. Thanks hosts for not modkilling me yet <3, wont happen again I think that you, just like MrMedic, owe us an explanation of who you would have voted for and why. If it weren't for the Mod lowering the number of votes required, there would have been a no-lynch.
This is the post you are referencing correct? he is asking aRyuujin to write a post like MrMedic did after MrMedic missed the day 1 lynch. that's all. I was wondering what you were talking about in regards to that but it seems you misunderstood. His writing isn't great.
On August 03 2012 20:01 DarthPunk wrote: I think your case against Mordanis is good. But right now, I am not willing to vote for someone, whom I think has a decent chance of flipping scum when I am convinced that Zork will flip scum!
This is the problem I have as well.
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