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Risen's case so far blows. Waiting on the longer form version that was coming. However, your case didn't win awards either.
Your slip wasn't a slip. Risen's nonsensical read on DropBear had also been brought up and discussed. I mentioned it in my first post. Gonzaw misinterepreted it and wrote about it. Marv pointed that out. I pointed that out. Other people pointed it out. Those 3 posts of Risen on DropBear had already popped up and been batted around a little.
You basically grabbed 2 posts in which he does nothing, ignored all the other posts in which he does nothing, then poked at something that has already been wtf?ed at.
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Risen would you consolidate your Vivax stuff into one post? Makes it much easier without the constant back and forth.
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Keirathi, care to share your current thoughts on Risen and Vivax?
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Torn on Keirathi. He's got some townie-looking posts, but they come only after he was pressured for being too neutral and guarded. Once he posts them, he's mostly checked out. Wishing there was more to work with here. (He posted as I was writing this, need to look back over)
Vivax looks scummy in his hopping around, all the meta nometa crap. But Vivax ALWAYS looks scummy to me. I mislynched him in newbie XVI, I found him scummy in LVI (alignment unknown as of yet), and so I don't really want to vote him D1. To me, he's an easy mislynch to push if I'm scum. He's so wrapped up in this person's meta or that person's meta that the scum team should be telling him to knock it off, right? There were plenty of other options for today's lynch, we had so many scattered votes at the start of the day. So why let him keep hanging himself? Don't like it.
marv and solstice, how are you seeing Vivax right now?
Risen still doesn't look great either. He comes back with a full scum team, an alternate scum in Gonzaw, and finds my finding him townie scummy. No activity --> 5 scum reads, with only a little reasoning backing that up. And now he tunnels Vivax, who again I always seem to find scummy and could see myself trying to mislynch if I were scum.
At the moment, I'm willing to consolidate onto Vivax or Risen if needed, but probably not Keirathi in light of his most recent response(s).
For now, my vote's going on solstice. Something really bugs me about him finding my early game to match my townie play. Yes, the length is always there, but my early posts were a mess. Gonzaw's right about that, marv is right that they look off. I wasn't pressured at all really in my newbie games, barring XIII which was just an odd game to play in. I think my response to a little pressure here was way off, because while I normally post lengthy, it's not so disorganized and jumbled. Concerned that he didn't pick up on that. That little thing keeps nagging at me enough that I'm willing to vote him.
##Vote: Solstice
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Marv, I'll address a couple things for you, then consolidate and get this done.
You should know why I asked you that question about Vivax looking scummy or looking like Vivax earlier. It's the same thing about him always looking scummy.
As to talismania, yes, that first post or two was awful. Check later on, where I say one thing I really want is non-plan related stuff from talismania. He agrees with me. He posts finally. I unvote. Look at his filter, take a peek. Apart from the plan, the other plan, and being suspicious of dropbear and I because of the plan...there ain't much. I wanted at least more than what we had, and I got it. But for all his D1 filter, 80% or more of it is just nonsense about the plan, and I wanted some thoughts and reads unrelated to that that I/we can sift through.
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I said I'd consolidate on Vivax or Risen, and I will.
##Unvote ##Vote: Vivax
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On July 14 2012 07:01 marvellosity wrote: I called him out like 3 times this evening for disappearing but no-one cared apparently Don't. You'd call him out in a post in which you voted me and also mentioned a third guy you'd vote for if you couldn't get a swap onto me.
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[QUOTE[/b]]On July 14 2012 06:08 marvellosity wrote: At the risk of repeating myself, I hate that Matt has disappeared close to lynch time when his last post was that he was going to read into the candidates.
At the moment obviously I prefer austin but I could consolidate on to Dropbear.[/QUOTE] I hate that Matt has disappeared
I'm voting austin, could consolidate on Dropbear
Will I vote Mattchew? I dunno! Am I going to push anyone on Mattchew? I dunno. But I'm going to push austin.
If you want a mattchew lynch, push a mattchew lynch. You're actively trying to get votes to me, while finding others scummy, while also mentioning mattchew.
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Rereading, but for now I'll bite on Mattchew. I'm having some of the same thoughts you are, Gonzaw.
On July 14 2012 12:39 gonzaw wrote: This is just too much. I had him as townie in early game but I can't believe a town Mattchew would do something like this, unless he was somehow hospitalized right after he made that post or something. Damn, I really thought he was town wtf is going on? :/ First glance through the thread, I was leaning real town on him. Like...some posts come off very townie: + Show Spoiler +On July 12 2012 10:44 Mattchew wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2012 10:38 Risen wrote:On July 12 2012 10:34 gonzaw wrote:On July 12 2012 10:00 gonzaw wrote:On July 12 2012 09:49 Risen wrote: Any particular reason you're trying to push something on people with a low post count in thread so early? Didn't even know lurking was possible at this point. So you're either an extremely eager townie or scum looking for easy targets to push early. Thank you captain obvious. Instead of posting tautologies, do you have an opinion on said subject? (i.e do you think I'm extremely eager townie or do you think I'm scum looking for easy targets to push?) In hindsight this came out more aggressive than I meant it :/ It's cool. It's nothing compared to what I handled from igrok my last game. Anywho, I was just pointing out I found it odd you would try and push people onto "lurkers" so early on. I don't think anything about you. There's nothing to go on right now. I don't think that post was in your favor, though. He wasn't pushing lurkers he was pushing people that posted that sounded excited to participate and post and then didn't. Correctly identifies what you were doing (reading thread decently close). Doesn't care that he was one of those people. Doesn't feel need to respond here. On July 12 2012 22:43 Mattchew wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2012 22:41 marvellosity wrote: Matt, while you're here - what do you make of gonzaw? He seems to be making stuff out of nothing, but it could just be provoking conversation.
I guess normally at the start of day 1 he has setup shit to ramble on about, which he does not here. he is trying really really hard, and once again he is explaining his entire thought process. I dont think i have ever seen him as scum, but this is the exactly how he plays as town On July 12 2012 22:48 Mattchew wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2012 22:45 marvellosity wrote:If you're interested, check out Liar where he was scum. Incredibly verbose there too can't i just be blinded and not have to read 1000 pages of filter to see the difference between him as scum and him as town On July 12 2012 22:52 Mattchew wrote: lets just call him confirmed town over and over again and maybe scum will do our read for us.. and if not we lynch him day 3
oh shit they can read this too cant they Very playful tone in his discussion with marv of you, Gonzaw. Doesn't promise to go look at your Liar Game thread, just blows it off without worry. Drops a stupid comment at the end. On July 13 2012 07:43 Mattchew wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2012 07:24 Keirathi wrote:On July 13 2012 07:13 Mattchew wrote: Keirathi cause he's posting super carefully, and his reads seem forced
Thats because they were kind of forced. I was specifically asked to make reads, so I responded with the two single scummiest things I've noticed. But I have a method to the way I play this game. Take a look at this. I take notes like this for a reason: so I can recognize patterns in people's play, rather than harping on one or two scummy things they've done. That's why I'm hesitant to make hard reads early. So you know that you do this as town, whats to stop you from doing so as scum? This post actually gives me mixed feelings. On one hand, it's relatively insightful, again showing matt is reading thread and occasionally posting a decent, if short, thought. But at the same time, keirathi isn't saying "I'm town because I take lots of notes." He's saying, "Those reads were forced because I don't like to make early reads" (which i still dislike anyone saying). matt's post sort of misses the mark, thinking that keirathi is saying he is playing like he did as town, but I still like the insight?
However, there's a common thread in all of those posts that none are really insightful or townie-looking scumhunting. Matt's scumhunting/votes tell a very different story.
Matt + sciberbia + Show Spoiler +On July 13 2012 02:43 Mattchew wrote:Marv I want to disagree with you so bad, but I was wrong about something JUST LIKE this is MTG mafia... hmm I don't like the way sciberbia has been posting... it all seems forced as hell like the way he says Show nested quote +On July 12 2012 13:31 sciberbia wrote:gonzaw asked for some thoughts on Risen, strongandbig, and Mattchew. Obviously there is not much to go on yet, but here are my thoughts so far He clarifies that he's only saying this cause gonzaw asked, kinda reads to me like hes paranoid about not answering a question in the thread On July 13 2012 04:55 Mattchew wrote: Also, marv and gonz, what do you think of scib On July 13 2012 07:13 Mattchew wrote:Lets kill talis, Keirathi or scib Talis cause he's proposing anti town plans and then backpeddling super fast Keirathi cause he's posting super carefully, and his reads seem forced scib cause he seems hesitant to post, and he posts this (it was spoilered) Show nested quote +Obviously, we should be lynching every day until we have good reason not to. I will push to get my scumreads lynched, but I will prefer any lynch to a No-Lynch.
I'm not a big fan of lynching lurkers. Obviously, lurking hurts town, but I don't think lurking is all that alignment-indicative. Seeing as our goal is to lynch scum, I will only give slight preference to lynching the lurker over the active player, everything else being even.
as he has not pushed a single read yet On July 13 2012 07:13 Mattchew wrote: ##vote sciberbia He's got a tiny suspicion on sciberbia. He asks gonzaw and marv about sciberbia. Both respond with short statements, but find sciberbia townie - + Show Spoiler +On July 13 2012 05:00 marvellosity wrote: hmmm. scib looks ok to me at the moment. On July 13 2012 05:04 gonzaw wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2012 05:00 marvellosity wrote: hmmm. scib looks ok to me at the moment. This. Matt doesn't follow up on those questions, and doesn't alter his read. Instead, he votes sciberbia. Feels like kind of a throwaway vote, doesn't it? I am slightly suspicious of sciberbia, what do you guys think? --> we both think he's town --> no response from mattchew, no "okay, I'll drop it" or "well, take a look at this, do you still think he's town?" --> weak vote on sciberbia. Why ask two players he has a town read on for their opinion, then completely disregard it?
Matt's vote stays on sciberbia for the rest of the day. No more reasoning posted. No attempts to get anyone to switch. No comments from him as to whether he'd consolidate onto dropbear or vivax, although he does respond to Gonzaw at some point that he doesn't find dropbear scummy. Do not like. Like...the vote feels off. The questioning with no reaction feels off. Not participating at the end feels off. Asking about the votecount and the time left shows concern about the lynch, yet leaving his vote on sciberbia uselessly shows no concern about the lynch. His actions and his vote are in direct conflict with the posts that seem townie.
Also during all the voting, On July 14 2012 03:30 Mattchew wrote: Imma read into risen now No risen read ever posted, despite coming back to thread to ask about the votecount and how much time left.
Here's something to consider as well, but I don't know that it matters much. Matt posts that he's going to sheep marv. Matt never sheeps marv. Okay, that's just dumb but not really scummy. But...
On July 14 2012 03:17 Mattchew wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2012 03:10 austinmcc wrote:On July 14 2012 03:00 DropBear wrote:On July 14 2012 02:18 Mattchew wrote: I am going to sheep marv, on solistice most likely
Is there any particular reason for this? Actually, I'm wondering this as well, specifically, why is marv your choice? town read and he's smart gonz is town too imo but his day 1 reads are usually meh at best no offense Nobody else seemed concerned about this. I'm guessing nobody knows why I asked this? Take a look at marv's last 5 town games:
MTG unthemed mini (both played) - D1 marv votes Mouldy Jeb (town), D2 pushes zealos (scum) bang bang (mattchew didn't play) - D1 marv suspects RoL (town), shoots Gonzaw (cop) movie star (both played) - D1 marv votes Zentor (town), D2 marv votes mattchew (scum), and N2 shoots VE (town) LVI (both played) - D1 marv votes foxtrotter (town), N1 shoots drwiggl3s (town) NMMII (mattchew didn't play)- D1 marv votes drwiggl3s (town), N1 shoots MsZontar (town)
Recent games, Marv is 0/5 on D1. 0/3 on vigi shots. 2/4 on D2 reads. Mattchew PLAYED in three of those games, so he's seen this. No offense marv, you know I agreed on a chunk of those reads and pushed some of those players, but your D1 reads, empirically, aren't good for sheeping.
I didn't post that summary yesterday because matt didn't look like a lynch candidate and I thought that, if it did anything, it would just derail thread, because nobody was talking about matt really. Plus, it's not quite ... scummy? It shows he's not paying full attention, not really having solid reasoning, but it's not outright scummy to be wrong about marv's D1 reads being better than gonzaw. However, it gave me pause. Something to think about.
Given that some of mattchew's POSTS look townie, whereas his actions and his vote don't, I'm finding him scummy right now. I'm not looking back through newbie guides and stuff at the moment, but that's a thing right? Isn't that some magical ace rule, to look at the actions over the posts? The sheeping marv business is mostly null, maybe SLIGHTLY scummy, but just something I'd maybe like to get people's thoughts on.
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And I'll balance out a longer post with a shorter post.
s0lstice is still on my radar. Again, it's little things, nothing outright megascummy, but the players who are most scummy D1 never seem to actually be scum. So, just some little things:
On July 12 2012 09:36 gonzaw wrote:So, if the lynch was right now I'd want to kill one of these 3 guys: Show nested quote +On July 12 2012 07:56 Risen wrote: Welcome to ICBINTMM in which Risen does not post in caps or call anyone an idiot THE ENTIRE GAME. Stay tuned to see if this actually happens...... Show nested quote +On July 12 2012 07:33 strongandbig wrote: sup bros i am currently watching Le Closer in french in my hotel room. Scum y'all best get ready to get motherfucking interrogated Show nested quote +On July 12 2012 06:33 Mattchew wrote: alight lets do this.
no zentor means no policy lynch based on names for me. You can see the recurring theme in all 3 (just 1 post, promising something/appearing they are eager to start but not doing anything else later). marv, talismania, anybody active, what do you think about these guys? If you had to kill one of them which one would you choose and why? (if you don't want to kill anyone then say so). Also this guy could die too: (Here's where Gonzaw suspects me. I'm not just chopping it out and making it seem like I wasn't in this post)
Solstice references this post twice, in what feel like slightly different ways.
On July 12 2012 10:15 s0Lstice wrote: As far as the names you listed, I wouldn't want to kill any of them right now. Austin has easy town meta, I feel confident I can recognize it. Mattchew, Risen, and s&b are just blank pages. I am nervous however of Risen making a conscious effort to change his play-style. I read him right in SSB64 but just barely.
On July 12 2012 10:51 gonzaw wrote: Does anybody think one of those guys above I mentioned could be scum? (I'd post why I think they are town but only if there are suspicions on them). Well...maybe I'm going too fast though :/
On July 12 2012 10:57 s0Lstice wrote: it's not too fast. day 1 is weird, and it only really gets going when people do what you do.
right now I'd want to hear from Vivax, mainly.
my dear Vivax, what do you think of the people gonzaw posted about? do you find it scummy that they appeared excited to post, yet didn't say much past their intro? Again, it's not...outright scummy. But it's odd to me that he doesn't want to kill anyone with low post counts, they're blank pages. Then he turns around and says "it's not too fast" when Gonzaw thinks he's getting ahead of himself. It's...off? Those three are blank to solstice, they haven't posted enough. But it's not too fast to start throwing suspicions around.
Another:
On July 12 2012 08:19 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +sciberbia wrote: I'm not a big fan of lynching lurkers. Obviously, lurking hurts town, but I don't think lurking is all that alignment-indicative. Seeing as our goal is to lynch scum, I will only give slight preference to lynching the lurker over the active player, everything else being even.
I'm not convinced that masons, millers, or roleblockers should claim, but I've never played in a setup quite like this before and I haven't thought much about it. I'll read up on the issue and see if I agree with you guys.
Well, ideally since this is not a newbie game, we shouldn't have townies lurking much. Its a bit different in newbie games because people don't really know how to play, and since everyone here should have a decent idea of how to play, then people lurking is strategy rather than ignorance. That's not to say that I think lynching lurkers is a particularly good idea, but looking into lurkers has more merit in this type of game than a newbie one..
On July 12 2012 11:04 s0Lstice wrote: Keirathi, assuming you are still around...
why so verbose about lurkers? what do you think of talismania's plan? Again it's not a scummy thing. But...was keirathi really being "verbose" here? He's got like...3 sentences about lurkers. He's responding to sciberbia, who also wrote 3 sentences about lurkers. solstice's later comment:
On July 13 2012 10:21 s0Lstice wrote: -keirathi's most lengthy post is on a safe zone topic. I want him to know I noticed that, and apply a little pressure. Again, it just feels a little bit off. That WAS keirathi's biggest post. It IS a throwaway topic. But on rereading, I just didn't find it verbose. This is a retarded thing for me to nitpick. I know it's a retarded thing to nitpick.
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Haha, sorry. Not like my D1s have been better.
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Gonzaw, you can't game the setup without knowing exactly how it works.
WoF - No spreadsheet/list easily visible and I'm lazy. I think no sk. Believe he's tweaked system since then. Emergency - 5 vts, 3 scum, sk, 4 blues Movie mini - 6 vts, 3 scum, sk, 3 blues
It's NOT C9++. It's different. It's different enough that you can't extrapolate from C9++. Stop. You're speculating a 4 VT, 2 scum, 9 blue setup? How would that ever be balanced? It's so ridiculously far from balanced that it's not worth speculating about Bugs's system right now. He tends to use less 1-shot roles (except for vigis), he said less masons and less/no ICs, and we know his scum rolls are different. But without specifics from him, we can't really figure out or game the setup and shouldn't be trying.
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On July 15 2012 09:50 gonzaw wrote: I'd like people to come in and state what they want this D2 (i.e who they want to lynch, which player they want more info from, stuff like that). If not we'll be like last day where it was 5 hours before the deadline and nobody had any idea of what to do.
(1) not have gonzaw speculate about setup (2) lynch scum (3) currently would most like to lynch matt/talis, perhaps drop/solstice as other options (4) would like more info from ... dear lord, everyone?
Just some thoughts:
I haven't looked much at strongandbig. He hasn't really stood out in my head this game. Going to go poke around him. If any non-gonzaws find him scummy, please speak up.
Milton and keirathi, can you give us one town read and one scum read other than dropbear, with some reasoning? Milton's last few posts are really dropbear focused, keirathi's somewhat so, would like to see more.
dropbear, what are your thoughts on risen now? When I asked for specifics yesterday, half of your reasoning was that he suspected vivax, who was scum. Well, vivax is town now and risen has a lot more activity. so, thoughts on risen.
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strongandbig
In gonzaw's first big accusation post, he puts both you and I as scum, then votes me. You found my post scummy, were willing to consolidate on me. Now you're finding gonzaw scummy. Is your read stronger on one of us than the other? You think we're buddies and I was getting bussed?
Could you give your thoughts on sciberbia? I notice you don't mention him at all in your filter.
You said you couldn't read talismania and didn't trust your ability to read him. Can you tell us 2 things you find scummy about him and 2 things you find townie?
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On July 16 2012 08:25 gonzaw wrote:@austin:+ Show Spoiler +I'm getting a town feel off you, but some people pointed this out and I can't help but feel it's weird: On July 14 2012 05:29 austinmcc wrote: Torn on Keirathi. He's got some townie-looking posts, but they come only after he was pressured for being too neutral and guarded. Once he posts them, he's mostly checked out. Wishing there was more to work with here. (He posted as I was writing this, need to look back over)
Vivax looks scummy in his hopping around, all the meta nometa crap. But Vivax ALWAYS looks scummy to me. I mislynched him in newbie XVI, I found him scummy in LVI (alignment unknown as of yet), and so I don't really want to vote him D1. To me, he's an easy mislynch to push if I'm scum. He's so wrapped up in this person's meta or that person's meta that the scum team should be telling him to knock it off, right? There were plenty of other options for today's lynch, we had so many scattered votes at the start of the day. So why let him keep hanging himself? Don't like it.
marv and solstice, how are you seeing Vivax right now?
Risen still doesn't look great either. He comes back with a full scum team, an alternate scum in Gonzaw, and finds my finding him townie scummy. No activity --> 5 scum reads, with only a little reasoning backing that up. And now he tunnels Vivax, who again I always seem to find scummy and could see myself trying to mislynch if I were scum.
At the moment, I'm willing to consolidate onto Vivax or Risen if needed, but probably not Keirathi in light of his most recent response(s).
For now, my vote's going on solstice. Something really bugs me about him finding my early game to match my townie play. Yes, the length is always there, but my early posts were a mess. Gonzaw's right about that, marv is right that they look off. I wasn't pressured at all really in my newbie games, barring XIII which was just an odd game to play in. I think my response to a little pressure here was way off, because while I normally post lengthy, it's not so disorganized and jumbled. Concerned that he didn't pick up on that. That little thing keeps nagging at me enough that I'm willing to vote him.
##Vote: SolsticeWhat exactly went through your mind when you made this post? Did you really think Vivax or Risen were scummy? You posted reasons why Vivax could be an "easy misslynch scum would push", but you said you'd consolidate on him, and hell you actually did later (you did change your vote on Vivax later): Show nested quote +On July 14 2012 06:47 austinmcc wrote: I said I'd consolidate on Vivax or Risen, and I will.
##Unvote ##Vote: Vivax Two things basically: 1)What exactly had Risen and Vivax have to do with your vote choice here? Did you really think solstice was more likely scum? Why did you choose to vote him over those 2? 2)What made you vote Vivax later and not talk about it? You didn't explain anything about it, even though you actually posted some reasons not to vote Vivax. After that you never mentioned Vivax or your vote on him again. Why exactly was that? (1) Vivax So, I'm finding D1 vivax scummy, as are a lot of people. He's getting wrapped up in "meta," using it here, not there, etc. etc. He attacks milton, who is my #1 townread right now, and then backs off when milton addresses ONE of the reasons that vivax found milton scummy.
But, as I said, vivax ALWAYS looks scummy to me. For best results, see the obs chat for LVI (I couldn't mention this before, because LVI was ongoing, but now I can post it - http://www.quicktopic.com/47/H/hmrAdwKTNFm). Check post 20 in particular, something that stuck in my head. If you notice, I ask marv if vivax was scummy or just vivax, and I ask marv and solstice at one point for their read on vivax. Solstice made that comment, marv was active in obs chat at that point. I figured they'd know what I was referencing. Right now, he feels like one of those guys where...being scummy isn't a scumtell? If that makes sense.
So I'm leaning scum, but I'd rather vote someone else.I mislynched him in Newbie XV, thought he was scum with acro (who did end up scum) in LVI, and I KNOW that solstice thinks he looks scummy all the time. Therefore, he's not my #1 vote, despite thinking he's scummy. However, if push comes to shove, and he's a leading candidate, I'm willing to vote him, because, after all, he looks scummy.
Risen If you check my D1, I flop all over risen. He's scummy cuz he hasn't done much but talk about smiley faces and being nicer. He's scummy cuz he gives an excuse not to scumhunt - likes to make connection cases. Then I briefly check past D1s, lots of connections. Okay, so maybe that's true, and it's not purely an excuse not to scumhunt.
Then he drops his vivax/marv/solstice/austin team suspicion. We're all circlejerked together. Marv voted solstice early, wrote a little case on him. I've been finding solstice and vivax scummy. Marv has been finding me off. Like sure, we've mentioned each other, but I'm not sure where exactly he's coming from on this. Doesn't look townish, and, while he's posting cases on vivax, he doesn't really post much on the rest of us (despite earlier saying he found my town read on him scummy, he never really gets on my case).
Therefore, he's back to being kind of scummy. But he's started to get active attacking vivax, so I could leave him and not vote him for him at that point. Tbh, I'm still pretty conflicted on him. 2/4 his magical circlejerk flip town. His response? Oh man, all my reads were based on scum vivax, back the drawing board. EXACTLY what I was worried about with risen and keirathi D1, and to an extent talismania (whose reads were all based on the magical plan). Risen and keirathi both said they'd rather make reads later based on connections, so they get a free pass to throw out reads D1, then say "oh man so wrong, better engage my correct read machine," and get a free day or two where they can try to not be held responsible for their reads, or to not post many. At the same time, unlike talismania or keirathi, risen's got one post that I just absolutely can't see scum making, so he's almost entirely cleared just based on that in my head.
Solstice In every other game I've played, I tunnel a townie D1. I'm looking for outright scummy behavior, I think I find it, zero in, vote em. The solstice vote is, in some ways, a response to that. I DID find his play off. I DID find it odd that he found me playing to my town meta. I was off D1. If he's the Miss Cleo of austinmcc, he should have seen that (and has since come out and said so). Marv found solstice's early play odd, and has played with or coached solstice a few times. Lazy, but strongandbig or mattchew or someone also said it felt like solstice's questions didn't have as much insight with them as a past game after doing some research.
So the solstice vote is - (1) I've only played with town solstice. (2) This feels off. (3) I'm going to go with my gut here, and can consolidate onto a scummy actor if needed. It seems like you've got to slip up badly to be really scummy as scum on D1. But to be just...off? Just a little different, a little not-town? I got myself convinced that it was more likely scum was hiding out in those areas. Thus, solstice vote.
(2) Vivax had been mentioned enough. I don't have anything new to add when there are 14 good cases and 14 bad cases flying around against him. So I gave a really short mentioned of him being scummy. The only new thing that I could bring to the table was the obs chat of LVI, and, as LVI was still ongoing at that point, I couldn't post it. We were already having way way way more than enough Vivax talk back and forth, and I just didn't want to add more if I couldn't post the one thing I wanted to.
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And gonzaw, since you're active and, whether you're town or scum, doing a good job of getting us all stuff to read, I'll answer your third question that you didn't ask - (3) how do I feel about strongandbig?
I'm unconvinced. I asked earlier if anyone else had scumreads on strongandbig, because when you pressure him the two of you just go off into your own little world. I didn't see anyone speak up with a nice case.
Right now I've got a townread on him, stronger than the suspicion you put on him. (1) Constantly messing up everyone's names for fun is weak, but slightly town to me. I'm glad xsksc isn't in this game, though. (2) he noticed risen's weird 4 man circlejerk scumteam (but not that 2 flipped town and risen dropped all his reads, which makes this a weak point as well) (3) I like his suspicions on solstice (4) Got on your case about C9++ musings (5) That unvote --> vivax --> unvote + vote solstice post.
You found the "tone" of (5) off. I see it as a stream of consciousness post from a townie. I mean, 2 votes in the same post? It really looks like he was reading through the thread or his notes, started finding solstice more scummy, and altered his post to show that, but not deleting earlier stuff. Either that's a very skilled plant from scum, or, more likely, a townie thing.
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Also, fook it. Headed to bed shortly but I haven't voted yet today, despite saying who I'd like to lynch and doing a little posting. And I'll try to make this extra-organized, so it's more clear than yesterday's babbling.
Talismania! You're it! ##vote: Talismania
Short reasons (1) The other cases on him were good. I liked sciberbia's take on it. mattchew also had his, focusing on the dropbear read. The fact that multiple players are finding him scummy, based on slightly different reasoning, feels very good to me. (2) I feel bad for unvoting him kind of. I wanted him to post non-plan stuff. He gave us a post or two (one post with thoughts on everyone), I unvoted, and then he still hasn't done much at all. (3) I got my own mothereffing reasons. Check dis:
I got on talis's case about the 2-part plan yesterday. I posted unclearly. It got me scrutinized. So ask yourself...what is the defining feature of talismania's play so far this game? What one thing do you associate with talismania? It's early, so this is slightly off, I know. But the main thing associated with him is his plans, our reaction to them, etc. So here, together for the very first time, for their 1 day reunion:
The Many Plans of the Amazing Talismania
(1) - The initial plan - + Show Spoiler +On July 12 2012 08:50 talismania wrote: pardon me for some half-assed musing:
since we've got majority lynch to deal with, what about some sort of nomination system? I don't like how majority allows townies and scum alike to save their opinions on people, especially day one and just hop on whatever bandwagon is happening near the end of the day. It would be nice if, say, 24 hours in everyone puts up a list of three players they want to see in consideration for the lynch and reasons why. Then all that gets tallied up or something and we decide between the popular choices. Actually you wouldn't even need to tally or enforce that. Just having everyone put up three names with reasons should be good enough to move discussion towards a consensus lynch candidate or two (hush s&b yes I am and always will try to get people to post their impressions of others). (2) - Upon nobody liking it - + Show Spoiler +On July 13 2012 00:00 talismania wrote: you know for all the shit that plan predictably gets at least it never fails to generate a few pages of discussion. Btw the only time people ever followed a version of it was in bastard 2, but that was because I had a gun and no one else did (and it worked then). The point of it is and always has been to see how people react to it or comply with it, not who they accuse or whatever.
anyhoo I think it's kind of hilarious that literally everyone commented on it. I mean speaking of scum blending in "I agree with everyone else that talis' plan isn't good" from like ten people. And the only one who didn't go "oh that's shit" was gonzaw. Which to be honest makes me lean town on him - he comes out with three names right off the bat for a decent reason at least for that early in the game. I feel a scum player would have been more cautious. Marv shitting on the plan was fairly predictable. I read his "let's lynch talis" for it though as more out of pique than as part of a cunning scum plan though. Keep this in mind as you read through- The plan predictably gets shit, i.e., nobody ever likes it
- The plan generates discussion
(3) Not completely bogus - + Show Spoiler +On July 13 2012 01:37 talismania wrote: No I don't think my plan was completely bogus. A variant worked in bastard 2 as you should know. I don't think it's that terrible if everyone follows it. Did I expect people to follow it? No. Did I expect people to react? Yes of course. Not sure how useful the reactions are but you can see my handydandy summary above. On July 13 2012 03:37 talismania wrote: it's half-assed because of the form it took. what I've pushed before is "everyone make case" or "everyone list impressions" and the like. I was trying to think of a way to beat the day one doldrums somewhat and thought of that on the spot and posted it. I figured no one would agree to it but at the very least it would stir the pot. Now we see the true plan. What I call part 2. He doesn't expect people to follow it, but the real plan is to read reactions. And yes, I'm still going to call it part 2, because effectively talismania is saying that this bit was the real plan all along. (4) The plot thickens - + Show Spoiler +On July 13 2012 08:47 talismania wrote: @austin
first as to this "two-part" business - the second part was not planned at all from the beginning. That was more of a lemonade from lemons let's see if there's anything there. If I misrepresented your post then I misrepresented it I guess? You had a few more facets in there than mattchew + marv but again why add those, especially when you acknowledge in the same post that my plan is bad "which seems to be the general sentiment" (paraphrase). Again it's less about what you say and more the fact that you said stuff at all, and how you said the stuff that seems out of place to me.
secondly, wtf is voting for me without even calling me scum? All you say is that my plan is bad, ergo vote (that's my understanding I hope i'm not misrepresenting again). what? Like, show me as town why you make that oversight - failing to actually connect the dots at the end from "here's the behavior and here's why it makes him scum". Did you just forget or something? Look carefully. Read it. Left to right. The second part was not planned. This is 100000% directly super-duper the opposite of what we just learned in (2) and (3) above, where he says the whole purpose is to read reactions.
Now, I've said before and I stand by this - contradictions by themselves aren't scummy. It depends on what the contradiction is about, and it depends on whether there is a scum agenda you can put behind the contradiction. I don't like talismania's, because:- At this point, talismania IS the plan. That's what you associate him with
- Talismania has focused his entire D1 around the plan. Here it is. Here's part 2. Dropbear and austin are suspicious because of the plan.
- Talismania doesn't stick to one story about what the plan was, even when I'm getting told to shutup about the plan and knock it off, i.e., thread sentiment is with him so he can just keep giving the same line and doesn't need to feel pressured by me
- Talismania says the plan gets "discussion," but it DIDN'T. 1/2 the thread disliked it. 1/2 the thread hadn't spoken yet. Scum and town alike should have been against it, talismania KNOWS it always gets shat on. There's no actual "discussion" there, like I was rambling about yesterday
Bonus point!
On July 16 2012 03:42 talismania wrote:
INSERT MATT'S TALISMANIA CASE HERE
let me get this straight.
you do nothing day one except poke and prod at people.
you show up near the lynch and ask when it's happening and all that but then somehow mysteriously disappear and leave your vote on sciberbia for some reason. btw you completely haven't even talked about this since it happened.
you then come into the thread like nothing has happened and copy stuff everyone else has said about me and throw it together in a case. It's like you took austin's "he talks about his plan!" and dropbear's "your case is shit" and gonzaw's "you weren't around after you made a big post" and then finished it off with sciberbia's bold red text
Matt looks bad, so it's easy to turn and attack him. Also, to the extent matt's case IS a bit of chimaera of earlier cases, talismania has SOMEWHAT responded to those earlier cases. But talismania doesn't address matt on his merits AT ALL. Talismania points his cannons at MATT, not MATT'S CASE, and fires away. Me no rikey. Another one of those things that isn't all that strong in and of itself, but when added onto other things, it's bad.
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KEIRATHI
On July 16 2012 08:46 Keirathi wrote: Sorry, I had to make an emergency trip out of town. Posting from my phone now, but I should have access to a computer later tonight so that I can catch up and post some ideas. Please do. And please respond to:On July 15 2012 10:19 austinmcc wrote: Milton and keirathi, can you give us one town read and one scum read other than dropbear, with some reasoning? Milton's last few posts are really dropbear focused, keirathi's somewhat so, would like to see more. At this point, maybe more than one each, and more reasoning. You have been relatively inactive. You are difficult to read because of this. That is not helpful to town. You want to help town, yes?
RISEN
On July 14 2012 05:42 Risen wrote: I'm convinces at this point two of viv/s0L/marv/austin have to be scum... This is so circlejerky it hurts... it's literally flooding the thread to defend vivax. On July 14 2012 14:05 Risen wrote: Snpipet from your post gonzaw "So Risen, what do you plan to do now?"
I have no idea. As I said, everything I had revolved around Viv being scum. On July 16 2012 04:44 Risen wrote: Going to lunch with my mentee, going to the store, then I'll be back. I'll go through and rebuild everything with Viv as a townie in mind (still... STILL hurts me on the inside that he was town and I could be so wrong. I have never felt so certain of someone being scum) You basically avoided scumhunting for half of D1. Then you posted a 4 man circlejerk list. TWO of those guys have now flipped town. And now you've avoided scumhunting for half of D2. In fact, the closest thing that you've given us to scumhunting D2 is that you still think Vivax was scum. You are difficult to read because of this. That is not helpful to town. You want to help town, yes?
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On July 16 2012 11:35 Risen wrote: What could I possibly say to confirm myself as towny to you? (whoever said he has one line that p much confirms him as town in my eyes) Not telling right now. As (maybe scummy) mattchew pointed out:On July 12 2012 22:52 Mattchew wrote: oh shit they can read this too cant they
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KEIRATHI We have no real D2 thoughts from you, except a promised case on sciberbia.
RISEN You think Matt is playing like he did in a past scum game. You've already mentioned that.
We're less than 4 hours from the deadline of a day phase. You've both basically done nothing D2. You are difficult to read because of this. That is not helpful to town. You want to help town, yes?
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