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wow, so many developments.
First, I don't agree it was a fake block from BH, that doesn't make sense though it was what I thought was being refered to last night. I can see a someone on the board of directors having veto power, which is where I think chez was going with it. He decided to try to test his blocking powers on a nuke rather than a person.
This could be explained by:
##block: Chezinu
I was hoping not to have to use this.
Why would a townie hope not to have to use his power? Wouldn't someone as townie expect to use their power as they got it for a reason?
Next we have the sandroba issue, I am not following that at all. Apparently Chezinu is claiming to be the head of the board of communication. That would mean he has 3 minions as well, and that his group broke off from the bureaucracy. I can see this being true as they would help keep the messages from revealing everyones name since it could out the whole scum team if caught.
The messages are Censored to some degree, though apparently Chez doesn't see the messages but has some input on what gets censored, and possibly adds his own messages to the original message. This means he has been sending commands to the mafia as well without them knowing for a while
Chez as head of communications though is also the link with the minions and part of why things get censored that the CEO isn't aware of. He has tried antagonizing both sides , as their is likely a hierarchy or something in place that will disrupt mafia communication were he to die as they wouldn't have a relay even if that relay does do some censoring. Possibly they get delayed or are less frequent, maybe it is just passed on like with the mafia system. I beleive Chezinu is limited in what he can say or something similar, but he has a living will (see his minion with communication on death) that will reveal a lot of things which is why death doesn't scare him like I thought it would.
So back to sandroba... he isn't on Chezinu's list so he can't be on the board of communications. Is this why you suspect him? Messages were sent and he was aware of them, so he obviously has the power. Both Z and K confirmed them as well and unless he bussed them both he has to have a power like that. I don't know, and the evidence them is how they acted regarding the messages, which they did regardless of his alignment as ti didn't affect them. If he was mafia he would know if he was bussing or not (has power so would be minion) and he would be outing his own people possibly.
Also heads up to town, chezinu got mew thinking about how CEO doesn't have a power role. Be on the lookout for someone using someone else's power... bah is this what you mean chez??
Did Sandroba have a minion do something and then claim responsibility for it? this would be a powerful play to make as an exec would be protected. But I don't see how they could know, at least not at this point. I don't know, I can't find find any way to construe sandroba as mafia within the bounds of what I currently know about how the system works.
Chez do you know your minions, are they confirmed town to you?
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Hmm I guess Sandroba could have bussed 2 minions to make it seem he has his role. Well that is easy to check, We just have town decide who he messages next. He only has 1 minion left at this point if scum exec, so only 1 in 20 something of actually picking that person. If that person gets the message then we confirm him town, if not then we can lynch him. he gets 1 a 1/2 cycle and no one else is likely to fall for it at this point so no waste if he gices up one of them to confirm himself.
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Kurumi, before you get lynched,
How do you feel about Sandroba? He may have bussed you and Zealos, obviously you don't agree and if you flip town that can't be true. Do you think that he is mafia or town?
what are your feelings on Zealos, i know earlier you said you couldn't read him, but has the interaction between him and sandroba changed anything? You think you are town for not sharing the PM, do you think Zealos had a legit reason for not sharing the PM?
You said 4 of these are likely red, I marked the one you called out. Any others you want to add to that list? Veterans: RebirthOfLegend (dead, town) Foolishness GGQ Bill Murray Meapak_Ziphh Chezinu (eeeeee I am going to say town on this one)
Good players: sandroba (alive but all looks like he is town) Palmar wherebugsgo (dead, town) syllogism probably VisceraEyes, not sure though.
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On July 20 2012 23:56 risk.nuke wrote:Show nested quote +On July 20 2012 22:52 rastaban wrote: Hmm I guess Sandroba could have bussed 2 minions to make it seem he has his role. Well that is easy to check, We just have town decide who he messages next. He only has 1 minion left at this point if scum exec, so only 1 in 20 something of actually picking that person. If that person gets the message then we confirm him town, if not then we can lynch him. he gets 1 a 1/2 cycle and no one else is likely to fall for it at this point so no waste if he gices up one of them to confirm himself. Does anyone think this makes sense. Are you referring to him being scum (I don't think it is likely) or that me saying him messaging someone wouldn't confirm him?
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On July 21 2012 00:02 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2012 00:01 rastaban wrote:On July 20 2012 23:56 risk.nuke wrote:On July 20 2012 22:52 rastaban wrote: Hmm I guess Sandroba could have bussed 2 minions to make it seem he has his role. Well that is easy to check, We just have town decide who he messages next. He only has 1 minion left at this point if scum exec, so only 1 in 20 something of actually picking that person. If that person gets the message then we confirm him town, if not then we can lynch him. he gets 1 a 1/2 cycle and no one else is likely to fall for it at this point so no waste if he gices up one of them to confirm himself. Does anyone think this makes sense. Are you referring to him being scum (I don't think it is likely) or that me saying him messaging someone wouldn't confirm him? I think he was referring (I was) that it's a good idea to get sandroba to PM someone of town's choosing And if Kurumi flips town like I think is a possibility we don't even need him to do that as we would know he messaged town. If Kurumi flips scum it is our way of proving it wasn't a bus.
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On July 21 2012 00:13 Palmar wrote:Show nested quote +On July 20 2012 23:56 risk.nuke wrote:On July 20 2012 22:52 rastaban wrote: Hmm I guess Sandroba could have bussed 2 minions to make it seem he has his role. Well that is easy to check, We just have town decide who he messages next. He only has 1 minion left at this point if scum exec, so only 1 in 20 something of actually picking that person. If that person gets the message then we confirm him town, if not then we can lynch him. he gets 1 a 1/2 cycle and no one else is likely to fall for it at this point so no waste if he gices up one of them to confirm himself. Does anyone think this makes sense. No it doesn't. Do you think this increases the chances of rastaban being mafia? There is more than a chance! What with all the lurking and setup speculation he has been doing. I mean even everything he just said has been derivative and more on roles with no real analysis of actual players. Top that off with his pathetic case on layabout which even he backed off on and it really makes a guy wonder...
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Because I am lazy can you add slOosh to the filters when you get a chance? Thanks
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On July 21 2012 01:49 Foolishness wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2012 01:28 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On July 21 2012 01:14 Foolishness wrote:On July 21 2012 00:57 Palmar wrote: your persistence is amazing kurumi.
Did I mention katina is scum? How about you look into her? Don't trash one of the few people that's making sense this game. looool Your contributions to this game have been overwhelming foolishness, I have seen the light and realized that katina is indeed valuable to the town. How could I have not seen this before... riiiiiight. Anyway we need to all make sure kurumi dies today. There's no excuse if he somehow wiggles out of this again. People need to remember this, it doesn't matter what alignment sandroba is at this point, kurumi got caught hook line and sinker. It'd be actually retarded if he somehow gets away. It's great to discuss more potential lynch targets but everyone needs to make sure the kurumi lynch happens today. I've seen a couple people call him town in the last couple pages (cough rastaban cough) this is just grossly negligent failure to read the thread, don't let this sentiment somehow take hold. Again, if you think about it, it doesn't matter which side sandro is on for kurumi to be scum. Well you should have seen it a lot of earlier. Can you give me a name of someone who makes more sense? I can only think of two people in which you can make an argument for. It's fine to discuss potential lynch targets, the issue is that it is day two and literally every player has been accused. There's absolutely zero focus. One page people are talking about Zealos, 3 pages later it's about Chezinu. With so many cases it's hard to tell who is actually trying to make a case (townies) and who's just fueling the fire (mafia). From what I can see though the people of interest in this regard are Blazinghand (should be obvious by now), marvellosity, and HiroPro. supersoft, Mattchew, Probulous, Palmar and yourself are somewhat guilty but not to the same extent.
Other than BM where should the focus be? Don't you beleive that Kurumi and Zealos are scum? We have BH after both of them. I am confused on what you want to focus on, is their more to discuss on these 3 players? I am just confused as to what you mean by wanting to focus. It seems to me that town is pretty agreed on the next, 2 if not 3 lynches.
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On July 21 2012 03:10 Foolishness wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2012 02:45 HiroPro wrote: You know what I find interesting Foolishness? The fact that Kurumi's response to sandroba's message is enough for you to kill him, but Zealos's response to sandroba's message isn't even worth mentioning in your read. Your "case" against him is taking things completely out of context. Zealos said early on he didn't like the BH lynch cause it was overtunneled and had weak reasons. He changed his opinion later on and he even said so and gave a reason why. I'm pretty sure I can find at least two other people who didn't like the BH lynch at first either but then changed their minds later (Probulous and VE come to my mind, correct me if I'm wrong though). What's the rest of your case about? It seems to me to be all about not voting BH and then deciding to vote him. He clearly explained himself (yeah I agree not the best explanation in the world, but you're nitpicking at nothing). Again, post a case otherwise there's no reason to be talking about lynching this guy. Isn't the biggest issue the fact that he covered up the fact that he had been PMed? How is that any different that what Kurumi did? To me it is worse since by that point it was made known that Sandroba was using that tactic and yet Zealos didn't come forward.
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On July 21 2012 03:23 Foolishness wrote:sandroba didn't send Kurumi a PM Show nested quote +On July 19 2012 02:49 sandroba wrote: Yes I am denying it. I didn't message kurumi. There are 9 mafia in this game so I guess I'm one short I'm sorry. And yes I didn't know katina was mafia for sure until her recent post that says she is mafia. Please teach me so I can do better. This is in reference to the second PM received the following day. The original PM was from Sandroba. Will still don't know if the second one was real, or who it came from.
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CHEZINU YOU HAVEN'T VOTED, PLEASE DO SO.
... we need your cryptic ramblings! (don't get mod killed)
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On July 21 2012 05:45 Kurumi wrote: You are getting this all wrong syllogism. If I flip mafia (which I won't) then sandroba's actions are nullified. Then you need to back your actual reads with analysis. When I flip Town, then it becomes transparent that sandroba's Town(there is a chance he's a minion with a wonky power, but... that'd hurt my head.) Sandie, I've never asked: Why did you pick me to send this message? I believe he posted it before, your nuke meant you weren't exec, and it being used on someone who hadn't posted yet seemed suspicious so you were a good candidate. Thats what the message meant you thought was referring to ROL.
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Austin stop please, this is an argument you can not win. Just send his name in tonight and let the CEO take care of. Trying to get him lynched or power stolen is not the way to go,.
Kurumi, I believe you. Will review your posts when you flip blue. Don't take it too hard, this happened to gonzaw a few games ago in bang bang. Sometimes a slip up, even when town is too much and it there is nothing that can be done about it.
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On July 21 2012 06:12 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2012 06:11 VisceraEyes wrote: Wait town-cred is like..meaningless in this setup isn't it? :/
Okay I'm willing to wait on Sandro. I really wish he'd confirm that he can send messages to townies though, because his aim is bordering on too phenomenal to be earnest. Well, even if Kurumi was a non-obvious choice, Zealos was a solid one, and he has 1/3 chance of hitting scum. Why do you say non-obvious, it seems to me like it was a great choice.
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@austinmcc, We kill them, then who does he message? well now he has to buss his last team mate since thats the only guy to message. now what? oh my power quit? no he has to message someone else. so all that bussing for nothing.
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On July 21 2012 06:14 VisceraEyes wrote: Kurumi was a piss-poor choice, as Probulous pointed out. Kurumi was likely to pretend to be mafia regardless of his alignment as far as I'm concerned, so that makes that particular choice terrible.
Zealos was decent IF HE WAS LOOKING FOR MINIONS...but Sandro has been onboard with Operation: CEObliterate since inception...it doesn't make sense that he'd try and fool ZEALOS if he's hunting for Executives.
But he has to hit minions, scum already has a code in place to verify the messages. so he has to hit people not contacted yet.
I agree Kurumi as a personality was a bad choice as he would go along with it, but as a tactical choice it was the best as it wouldn't be an exec as it had used a power in a questionable way.
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Bah, I am sorry syllogism, you were right, best not to talk about this any more and let it fade away. this is just spamming up the thread with no real content.
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On July 21 2012 06:30 VisceraEyes wrote: Everyone please think of the kill structure for a moment.
The CEO must kill someone off the list of names submitted by his underlings
This means he cannot just choose someone at random, he has a list he has to pick from.
And he chose WBG from that list rather than Sandroba, the wily scum-hunting messenger? HONESTLY GUYS?! REALLY?! That is what made me go through Bug's posts, though he was the most pro town player it still seams a stretch unless they thought their was a medic. Thats why I though Layabout might be the guy he was covering for.
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On July 21 2012 09:35 layabout wrote:For all intents and purposes sandroba is town. This game requires half of the thread to agree on a lynch. Kurumi is near confirmed scum. + Show Spoiler +On July 21 2012 04:31 Kurumi wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2012 04:26 syllogism wrote: I'd rather lynch confirmed mafia who aren't necessarily minions, such as Palmar or Foolishness. Even today there is a small chance kurumi is a trolling,lying, against win-con playing townie while there is no chance whatsoever that foolishness or palmar are town. If you wanted to make me angry, consider yourself successful. Fuck you. he was angry that syllogism proposed that he could do this as town And yet there are 5 votes not on Kurumi! We are going to need focus more and we are going to need to stop joking around with votes and thread actions. Palmar and Foolishness are calling syllogism mafia. Syllogism in turn is calling both Palmar and Foolishness mafia. Many of you insist on speculating that the host will have made the CEO one of these players (or sandroba or Meapak). It is always dangerous to make decisions based upon out-guessing the host. But if we are aiming to kill the CEO we should plac e our attention on those 3 players. If we are looking for the person most likely to flip scum tomorrow we need look no further tahn our good friend zealos. I defended him initially but his actions since then show that he is either a mafia or a townie that isn't playing. READ:Show nested quote +On July 19 2012 06:27 wherebugsgo wrote:+ Show Spoiler [snip] +Okay, several things: I can confirm that there is at least one messaging power that can be used on townies. I received this after the daypost: Congratulations! You tripped down some stairs and hit your head. When you woke up, you realized that you were actually a member of the House Chezinu!
That's right! You are now part of the third party, House Chezinu! The first order of business is to get out there and make it known to the world! You'll need some more members to get this really rolling, so spread the word and get recruiting! Once a cycle, you may recruit someone. Simply type "##Recruit: <name> in the thread, and you will be able to recruit a new member! You may use this ability once per day! (Once per cycle, at night) However, you may only have a total of three members besides yourself.
You're part of House Chezinu, so you're above win conditions. (You're already part of House Chezinu, what more do you need to win?) But maybe you can unite the workers in a glorious revolution!
P.S., There's no House Chezinu like a house with Chezinu. Just sayin. And I confirmed with the host that this is a player-sent message. Secondly we have two near-confirmed scum in Kurumi and Zealos. If you're a vig or you have any sort of night KP it might be a good idea to kill them given that tomorrow will likely be a wash if they're alive. Before sandroba revealed that he had messaged zealos WBG considered zealos to be as likely scum as Kurumi. He did not explain his reasons explicitly but he expressed this opinion and we would be wise not to forget it. It's useful to have a meta assessment so: Show nested quote +On July 19 2012 10:19 HiroPro wrote: Why would a townie essentially make up a reason. Bear in mind that Zealos has show that he has no desire to come up with good reasons when scum (in MTG when I was mafia teammates with him, he argued that he had zero scum reads d1 and so he just voted for his least townie person. he then proceeded to lurk until halfway through night 1 and then appeared with a case on zelblade who was basically just a lurker based entirely on evidence that would have been available to him when he made his d1 vote.) What was the most sgnificant event during day1? + Show Spoiler [Answer] +The great sandroaba-Kurumi debacle of course! This one event outed Kurumi as scum. Now town should take a scum lynch day1 100% of the time. From that point onwards the only thing the thread needed to do was vote kurumi and then ask whether it was a a bus or not. It should have removed all other candidates for the lynch and discussion the thread should have moved onto the next day's lynch. RoL's nuke was the only good reason to move on from this issue and it was the reason that kurumi was not lynched. Everyone should have paid their attention to that and thought about the various possibilities since for a time that event would have decided that days lynch and is deciding today lynch. It was your responsibility as town. But are we to believe that until this morning zealos was unaware of the whole thing? Zealos placed his first vote against austinmcc Show nested quote +On July 18 2012 07:40 Zealos wrote:On July 18 2012 06:38 risk.nuke wrote:On July 18 2012 06:21 marvellosity wrote: for tonight, 6h 40 mins Okey good thanks, I just finnished reading up on the thread and I'd say I did better then skimming but not really a thorough readthrough either. Right now I'm feeling of a mind to join in on the austin wagon. It seems nice there. Unfortunatly I'm going to have to go with this. Having only recently replaced in and having been out all day today, I'm just gonna vote for the person that seems the most scummy recently.I don't like the idea of a BH lynch right now. I don't think there is enough against him, and if he does flip town we've lost a good vet. ##Vote: austinmcc He says nothing about austinmcc specifically and yet he feels that the only thing needed to justify his vote was thread momentum. At that time a few players were calling austinmcc scummy but there was nothing substantial said at all and he had very few votes. Zealos' vote was lazy and shows that he was trying to fit in rather than trying to get a successful lynch. It sounds a lot like the Zealos that HiroPro descibed. Show nested quote +On July 19 2012 05:16 Zealos wrote:On July 19 2012 05:00 HiroPro wrote: Zealos, who would you like to kill other than austin? Don't say Kurumi.
And can you explain your vote for austin? What did you find scummy? Unfortunately my vote for austin was a rush vote where I voted for who seemed to have a decent case against them. I simply didn't have time to look over the whole thread, which is regrettable. As for today, I think a good kill would be BH. I gather it's pretty much a wagon at this point, but just to add to things: On July 17 2012 07:43 Blazinghand wrote:On July 17 2012 07:42 Kurumi wrote:On July 17 2012 07:41 Blazinghand wrote:On July 17 2012 07:40 Kurumi wrote:On July 17 2012 07:38 Blazinghand wrote: You know kurumi we got like tons of time maybe if you're really a town player you can help convince these people to lynch syllo after you die Meapak_Zipph is scum, I don't care about syllo. And why I would work for you, who the hell are you? Are you sure? Cause Syllo looks pretty scummy to me. You should read the cases on him and make a case against him, a glorious shining case that will be reinforced by your town flip. You are making this so easy. I am town. You "know" I am town. Why vote on me? ._. My point is that "if you are really a town player" you should be spending your resources to help me lynch syllo. You're not doing much to convince me right now. That is super odd to me. Clearly his logic makes no sense, and he's trying to buddy up to who he thinks will be an influential town player. The post I made early about him also pointed his odd vote switch after the deadline, which doesn't seem town at all to me. Not to mention the massive cuffle with all the nuking and blocking (which I still don't understand at all, are nukes standard in some games?) So he's my pick so far. So Zealos still was not reading the thread since austinmcc did not have a decent case against him and his comment about Kurumi demonstrates a complete lack of thread knowledge. He also picks out Blazinghand not for being scummy but for being "odd". Which is strange since there should be enuogh players for him to find something that is scummy and not simply "odd". Show nested quote +On July 19 2012 05:26 Zealos wrote: I'll just go ahead and vote for BH at the start of day2 then leave you guys to it. bb, I will simply re-post: Show nested quote +On July 19 2012 10:19 layabout wrote:+ Show Spoiler [snip] +On July 19 2012 10:08 HiroPro wrote: Also, you still did not explain why a town Zealos would ever try to argue that BH was trying to buddy "influential townie" Kurumi. I have a very low opinion of town Zealos and that i something i think he could do if e hadn't been reading the thread. What you said he did was not accurate and this play from Zealos reminds me very much of how he acted at the end of Bang Bang mafia 2. Zealos said that he would vote for Blazinghand and not come back for the rest of the day. If he is town and he cares then he will come back and try to be productive there is nothing to stop him doing this as mafia but if he doesn't do it he is probably mafia and we should lynch him. And what has he done? Well he spent just long enough in the thread to have sandroba's message explained to him. He contributed nothing of his own and has not been productive. He is mafia. ##tomorrow we should vote zealos
Layabout, does Kurumi flipping blue change your post at all? And while I agree town needs to unite, it was pretty obvious Kurumi was town if anyone cared to look at his posts beyond following a random pm received. This is the third game in a row where I have seen town butcher an obvious innocent for a single slip up (though we were able to save marv last minute) gonzaw marv and Kurumi all acted the same when caught. Guess who isn't acting that way. Zealos. I think BH is a great lynch as well, he has veto power that is certainly a minion on the board of directors.
So Zealos then BH 2 for 2. Come on town let's do this!
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I was snooping through some of the experienced players filters Syllogism is town it is pretty obvious Foolishness I'm sorry I doubted you for a bit. I forgot last game we played together mafia's ploy was to get you lynched. I am convinced your town now so let's work together. You are posting just like you did then with distant for poor town play an focusing on finding scum. I like it!
Not sure on ggq yet, time for more research! Chezinu and sandroba are obviously town. BM is so different from himself he must be scum.
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