Newbie Mini Mafia XIX - Page 2
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Hopeless1der
United States5836 Posts
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Hopeless1der
United States5836 Posts
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Hopeless1der
United States5836 Posts
On July 01 2012 07:59 JingleHell wrote: Promethelax, go back to the case you and I made against Hopeless. He placed his vote on Fencer (who has been under vague suspicion quite a bit, including by the dearly departed), but only after the vote on Anacletus was nearly secured, and ended the day as the ONLY vote on Fencer. That ties in to the case we were already making about his scummy play. What do you think? Jingle, I didn't think Anacletus or Fencer were/are scum but I didnt want to No-Lynch. My vote went to Fencer to delay a hammer and hope some discussion was mounted to push it over the edge and hopefully generating some scumtells as the mafia pushed to get a mislynch, but Promethelax forced the issue since he couldn't be here at the deadline. I pushed Anacletus in two posts to try and get him to start contributing and he instead clammed up and got himself lynched without much of a fight. The case against him wasn't all that strong to begin with, but with the amount of bandwagoning he took early, anything he did would have looked like a desperate attempt to throw the attention off of him. He seemed to think the people who didnt vote for him are where the scum lie. I am of the impression that 2 of the 3 voted for him, and 1 did not, just to try and keep options open while managing to manipulate town into a mislynch. | ||
Hopeless1der
United States5836 Posts
On July 01 2012 09:33 Promethelax wrote: SNIP Let's look at his conclusion: it is bad to have a no lynch because if we kill of a town statistics suggests our next random lynch will be more likely to hit scum. Remember before this game started I said I was sorry if I was dumber than two rocks making love? I now present you with one of the two rocks required. Hopeless is either scum or playing an anti-town game because he has no idea what he is doing. Since the rest of us newbs figured it out I would guess it is the former rather than the latter. You've lost me Promethelax. My statement pertained to No Lynch and Mislynch (intentional or otherwise). Are you saying No Lynch is preferable? Because I'm saying Mislynch is preferable. Oh wait, when you cast your vote: + Show Spoiler + On June 30 2012 22:19 Promethelax wrote: Well this is obnoxious, I think Anaacletus is scummy but I think Fencer is more scummy, however I will be at work when the voting ends and this is my last minute in this thread for this day cycle, since I think a no lynch is really bad for us I am going to switch my vote to Anacletus, I hope that if he flips town you all will look at my Fencer case, he really does look more scummy to me. I'm putting the hammer on Anacletus because we need a lynch and I won't be here to convince people that we should get Fencer, I would leave my vote on Fencer if I thought I could make the rest of you realize that he is scum but since you seem to want to go for the second reddest person I will do that as well to ensure a lynch. I hope that if we are wrong and Anacletus is town you will all take a second look at my case on Fencer, if Anacletus is town Fencer is even more likely to be scum. @Intact: If Anacletus flips scum and you feel the need to go after me I can't stop you, you should go after Fencer but if you don't do that you should go after him on day three after I flip green (all this assuming I live through the next two nights which I probably won't without medic protection). ##Unvote: Fencer710 ##Vote: Anacletus Is there any way to make sure I don't have to do this in the future since I won't be around for the voting deadline? i.e. would it be possible to PM one of you to say my preferences in terms of my vote. That a lynch is better than a no lynch and a lynch on Fenccer is better than a lynch on Anacletus and so on. I want my vote to count but I also have to make it about 12 hours before the deadline which really messes with me, thanks. Your actions agree with my conclusion, whether you agree with the deduction itself or not. My 'non-committal' posts (at least towards Anacletus) were in fact a good read by me to identify someone being bandwagoned for a weak case. I can't decide if you and JH tunneling me so far is actually scummy or not, but don't for one goddamn second think I don't know what I'm doing. | ||
Hopeless1der
United States5836 Posts
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Hopeless1der
United States5836 Posts
On July 02 2012 08:09 Fencer710 wrote: I think it's a bit of both. One person that is extremely suspicious in my eyes is Intact, who was never looked at seriously by JingleHell. Of course, Hopeless is also suspicious because JingleHell's (second) last post before death was against him, as were all the posts including Hopeless before that. I think the dead men got their votes right, but we will have to wait for the accused responses to be sure. For the moment, FoS on both Intact and Hopeless1der. This is a big reason to think carefully on what the scum is trying to do. It makes me extremely suspicious and is a big WIFOM situation. The most likely options are that either: I'm scum and I'm trying to shut him up or I'm getting set up because I've repeatedly challenged Jingle throughout and I am already kind of under suspicion. Quite frankly I agree that I look really suspicious, but if we try to chase down my case, the scum get a lot of time to spend lurking instead of talking. I'd rather present cases on other players who I think are more suspicious than me. Fencer, what specifically pushed you over the edge with promethelaxes case on me? You're bandwagoning again without contributing much to the discussion. I will address the Intact situation shortly. You managed to post that thought as I was going through his filter so this will look like a reactionary post, but so be it. | ||
Hopeless1der
United States5836 Posts
INTACT: /\ On June 29 2012 20:22 Intact wrote: I think I saw this type of play in a previous mafia game. Not sure which one though. There were 2 mafia who argued agressivly towards eachother early on. This reminds me of that occasion. On June 29 2012 21:37 Intact wrote: My first guess was Myles, however he is no longer on top of the list(although I will keep an eye on him). I'm leaning mostly towards Analectus, his posts contain very little of value and seems more like a way to avoid being branded a lurker. And like I said before I have seen scum play that is similar to what JH and Analectus is doing. Intact is sure he's seen this before from scum in previous games...Except they both are dead after D1/N1 and both flipped town. Following these posts, his next post is (in its entirety) On June 29 2012 23:28 Intact wrote: ##Vote Analectus No discussion, no thoughts, just hopping on board. After promethelax comes in to push his case on Fencer (which no one but me really took to), Intact sees this as a very suspicious move. Promethelax is attempting to flesh out multiple cases on day 1 instead of tunnelling one person, and Intact deems that scum behaviour because it might split the town and cause tension. On the other hand, Anacletus flipped town, so Promethelax had the right idea going after someone else. He justifies his choice to stand by his vote with: On June 30 2012 10:48 Intact wrote: In addition, should we lynch analectus and he turns put to be mafia, it would make it fairly easy to point out the other mafia. And if he turns out to be townie it would be very easy to confirm some townies. This is not true in the slightest and just screams scum to me. JH quickly picks up on it: + Show Spoiler + On June 30 2012 10:51 JingleHell wrote: Uhm, it really doesn't work that way. Because they know that we know that they know that we know... you can get as meta as you want, what it really comes down to is educated guesses, and convincing other people those judgement calls are reasonable. Both sides know the same things, and both sides can try to meta-game. You can't second guess the people who know more than you and get the same updates to info as you. All you can do is look for what they do with the information. That last line in the spoiler is the biggest point here. Intact is assuming that a lynch would reveal perfect information about who voted. That cant work since town must be involved in the mislynch, so how could you know with certainty who is scum and who is town? Unless you're scum, you cant possibly know after a D1 Lynch. Finally, he is currently lurking after saying: On July 01 2012 10:23 Intact wrote: So I see that there is some doubt about me and my posting. I'll try adress that in a couple of hours when I wake up. Just got home from a nightclub so trying to make sense seems like a bad idea right now. Maybe he's still hungover? Or maybe he's hoping no one calls him out so he can continue to lurk, post a vote with little to no thought (Seriously read his filter, he barely scratches the surface of suspecting someone), and get away scot-free again. | ||
Hopeless1der
United States5836 Posts
BlinD-RawR /\ Really lurky, and told Fencer to hold off on his really early vote on Anacletus On June 29 2012 21:48 BLinD-RawR wrote: we still have 2 lurkers/inactive players, until we can get them to talk and really get some info from them I'd lay off of voting. On June 29 2012 21:48 BLinD-RawR wrote: we still have 2 lurkers/inactive players, until we can get them to talk and really get some info from them I'd lay off of voting. He goes on to Vote Anacletus anyways with very little further discussion from him. In fact there was little discussion FROM ANYONE. Read through the posts from when Fencer voted to when Intact voted. What changed? If anything, it was iamperfection hounding Fencer for sounding suspicious. This bandwagon vote was initiated by Intact, 2nd'd by Fencer (To throw off iamperfection?). Am.Umlaut came in and explained why he was voting the way he did, then dropped another vote for Anacletus. 4th: On June 29 2012 23:38 BLinD-RawR wrote: ##Vote Analectus going with what little we have, hes been the most scummy so far. That's not a solid reason to vote for someone...that should be FoS material right there. Next post, after Promethelax brings up Fencer's questionable play: On June 30 2012 13:47 BLinD-RawR wrote: Fencer has been quite unproductive, making excuses about being a newbie when he knows this is a newbie game, posting a lot to compensate for that, but I'm not ready to unvote for anacletus just yet. Is there anyway to know what roles have been filled by players?(I'm not asking who is what, I'm asking only the roles that has been filled since this has so few players therefore not all roles are filled on both sides) This post comes after a couple hours of discussion, so perhaps there isn't too much to add in, but his question to the mods is detailed in the OP of the thread. Semi-Open. It feels like hes trying to make posts without actually contributing. His next post addresses the fact that NrGMonk and BobtheLob have yet to really post much and he wishes he could make some reads. Meanwhile he has yet to provide a read of his own on anyone. A very easy way to look like its someone else's fault he's not as active as he'd like to be. On July 01 2012 01:44 BLinD-RawR wrote: I didn't do this yesterday, I'm calling it a night now so people know when I'm on and when I'm not, so seeing as I will miss the Night post I got somethings to say. I just hope that we don't end up in a no lynch situation and I really do want fresh reads from monk who has been largely inactive and people need to push on Bob to talk too. Bob has been as helpless as Fencer (who I think is more of an uncomfortable player than straight up scum but either way hes been hurting town play by not contributing) and worse is that we can't even get a read on him because he doesn't post. so until I have some sort of epiphany and rush to my PC, I'm going to stand by the Anacletus lynch. His post following the mislynch was kind of an "aw shucks, better luck next time team. Let's..continue to play the game and maybe find scum?" The post doesn't provide any insight into why we mislynched or if there is anyone in particular he feels is worth investigating. Just a generic, Go Team! vibe. The biggest thing that catches my eye is the way that nothing really changed to influence the decisions to Vote Anacletus, but with 4 votes, it seemed unlikely that we'd be able to build a case on anyone else in time for the deadline. I'm hesitant to think that all 3 scum would vote for Anacletus like that, but my top 3 reads are Fencer710, Intact, and BLinD-RawR | ||
Hopeless1der
United States5836 Posts
On July 02 2012 09:26 BobTheLob wrote: Yay not me! :D :D :D :D :D What reads do you have on me(Besides scared/drunk/hasnoideawhattodo) Based on the way your vote fell, I see it as a bandwagon but because you don't want to look suspicious. No one else has made a solid case on anyone, so the scummiest looking player takes another hit. However, you lurk to an incredible degree, and you have a series of posts: + Show Spoiler + On July 01 2012 02:44 BobTheLob wrote: Just as a small defence for myself, I never post much and rarely post more than a few lines, it's just how I post as for bandwagoning... I'm new I have next to no idea what I'm doing and despite having read up on all of the resources still am a bit lost. As for reads, I just have a feeling about Anacletus, but whether or not he's scum I have no idea the same with Fencer. I didn't post earlier because I just woke up and last night I was playing a game of Civ IV with my friends :D On July 01 2012 02:44 BobTheLob wrote: Just as a small defence for myself, I never post much and rarely post more than a few lines, it's just how I post as for bandwagoning... I'm new I have next to no idea what I'm doing and despite having read up on all of the resources still am a bit lost. As for reads, I just have a feeling about Anacletus, but whether or not he's scum I have no idea the same with Fencer. I didn't post earlier because I just woke up and last night I was playing a game of Civ IV with my friends :D On July 01 2012 05:25 BobTheLob wrote: Wait so you're saying that because I point out that I couldn't post responses to the statements that I hadn't been posting because I was asleep, and saying that I don't post much anyway so not talking much wouldn't be indicative of anything, means that I'm not helping? I was debating the points others have, and by doing so am causing discussion (Which is what we want). So if I may ask if you are accusing me of something just come out and say it. where you basically say you don't post much, get called out for it, and make a really long and confusing attempt to establish the fact that you shouldn't be held accountable for lurking. While I frown upon lurking in general, my big problem here is that last post where you say: I was debating the points others have, and by doing so am causing discussion (Which is what we want). So if I may ask if you are accusing me of something just come out and say it. Quite frankly, you didn't. Your next post kind of had some reads but a lot of it was "I don't know" and "not conclusive". At least we have a starting point for where you're at in the game to go back to later. + Show Spoiler + On July 01 2012 09:03 BobTheLob wrote: Okay, I've lurked this entire game and I'm starting to realize that that is a bad idea, now on the topic of reads: iamperfection and I am very fucking suspicious We're screwed by nature of our habits. See lurking People are bandwagoning onto fencer now I agree he was acting odd but it's not conclusive Jingle and Promethelax are working together quite well and the rest of us are just following them. They seem to have alot of the same ideas... paying attention to them Myles hasn't posted to little or to much, he's playing it super safe. Not a clue Blind is, more or less in the same boat as me albeit a bit less so. See above AmericanUmlaut is doing quite well all his moves are well thought out but we still have no idea what side he's on could be one could be the other. No idea for him either Hopeless1der also seems to be the victim of a bit of bandwagoning but he seems pretty cool I'm thinking he's a town but hey I could be wrong Lastly Intact has been promoting conversation since the game began but seems to be in the same boat as me and perfection in that he hasn't posted enough. also not posting enough but I don't know That's all I got, keeping in mind that we have only one death so far and the night is going to be the most important bit so far because as Jingle said, the scum will try to set someone up Do games normally move this pace or faster/slower? You admit that you've lurked, that its bad, and that you should provide more reads. Please continue that train of thought. The last few things you did were admit to drinking and pointing out the WIFOM that the scum have set up regarding JH's NightKill. Not discussing or presenting ideas, just pointing out that it has happened. At least you aren't jumping the gun to accusing me I suppose... Your play looks poor at best, but I don't yet see a link between you and the other scummy players on my radar, so I'm hesitantly considering you town. That could very quickly change so be on your toes. And post more reads. | ||
Hopeless1der
United States5836 Posts
Firstly I didn't know the deterrence between semi-open and an open game was until I saw the NMMXX thread and noticed the difference, and to be honest I really wanted to know because I wanted DTs to actually do their job instead of avoiding the fact that they exist in the game and use them back cases that have already been made on scum or build new cases based on who they checked on Night 1. What exactly would you have liked me to say after anacletus did get lynched? And yourself why should I believe any case you build from the sole fact that one of the 2 people who was on your case from the beginning was killed last night and what do you do? You redirect attention towards other people because there is nothing much you can do for the cases built against you. "didn't know the difference..."? I have difficulty buying this explanation. But its he-said-she-said at this point so I'll drop it. A simple gg for Anacletus would have sufficed, but you proceed to speculate on things he (obviously) could have done, and you just sound so very upset like it was a personal blow to you. You voted for him, you thought he was scum (didn't you?) He flips town and your resolve crumbles. Perhaps some feel its a townie trait to be remorseful, but the sentiment doesn't accomplish anything to out the scum. I consider your post scummy. Did you notice that JH wasn't just tunnelling me the entire time? JH actively pursued every case he could find in order to generate discussion and make reads. This would easily explain why he got killed by scum. It also heavily implicated me because one of his last posts were in response to my actions. However if given another day, he would probably have made a case on me and continued to make more cases. We'll never know, but I'd like to think that's what a good townie should do. What have you done besides attack my credibility? I want to see reads, not vague accusations of what might be scummy behaviour. I know I'm suspicious, but the scum benefit from us wasting time. The case against me is already out there. If you think its a good one, pursue it. However, the more time spent on me is less time spent on any other case. Which option do you think benefits town in the long run? Redirection is not my priority. Scum is my priority. My reads could be wrong, but they give people options to perhaps see a connection that went unnoticed and see what issues were swept under the rug later on. All of this contributes to making stronger reads going forwards. If I still look scummy, well I did everything I could to give the town some solid options and my reads will look that much stronger if/when I flip town. | ||
Hopeless1der
United States5836 Posts
On July 03 2012 00:04 Fencar wrote: You know what, I give up. I'm done. After my initial mistakes, everything I try to do is now banging my head against the wall. Fencar, who should we be going after instead of you? You still have your vote on me, but I've since posted a read on both Intact and BliND-RawR. They both showed up in your list as not providing any reads. Do you still stand by your vote against me? Continue to build cases on people you think are suspicious, even if that's still me, don't just give up. It looks incredibly scummy and I'm leaning towards voting either You or Intact. It will be way easier to get you lynched from the way you posted, but you're both looking like scum to me. | ||
Hopeless1der
United States5836 Posts
On July 03 2012 01:09 Fencar wrote: I can't wait until the end for you guys to find out. I forgot to say, Goodbye everyone! Fencars last couple posts make it sound like he wants town to screw it all up because we suspect him. If he flips town, I will be amazed. However, I don't want to push for his lynch just yet. Maybe he'll get a replacement, maybe he'll be modkilled. [green]Is there a deadline by which Fencar must be replaced before he is removed from the game?[green] | ||
Hopeless1der
United States5836 Posts
On July 03 2012 01:38 Hopeless1der wrote: Fencars last couple posts make it sound like he wants town to screw it all up because we suspect him. If he flips town, I will be amazed. However, I don't want to push for his lynch just yet. Maybe he'll get a replacement, maybe he'll be modkilled. Is there a deadline by which Fencar must be replaced before he is removed from the game? EBWOP: Made the Question Green Is there a deadline by which Fencar must be replaced before he is removed from the game? | ||
Hopeless1der
United States5836 Posts
Since Anacletus was the mislynched, I'd have gone after someone who voted for him hoping to find scum. That leaves Blind, iamperfection and Myles. I would probably have gone after Myles for pretty much the same reasons he noted in his post above. iamperfection is still a null read for me, which effectively makes him town since I now have scum reads. BLiND-RawR would have been a close second, and I may well have pmed him as my choice before I developed a scum read on him. Now that we know Fencar's expiration date, do we try to lynch him today or hope he gets modkilled and if not, lynch tomorrow (This of course assumes we consider him the scummiest person). It seems that if we can pick up a free kill and have the chance to hit other scum, we should do that instead of getting hung up on the Fencar case. To that end, I'd like to push the Intact case, as he's my strongest red read so far, besides Fencar. Promethelax, who is your strongest read? I assume I'm up there, but a good townie like you wouldn't put all your eggs in one basket, now would he? On July 03 2012 01:52 ghost_403 wrote: NrGmonk will be replaced by sciberbia Hi sciberbia! Not to put you on the spot, but monk didn't give us all the much info. I don't care if you essentially copy our arguments, but I'd like to get your input specifically on myself, Intact and Fencar as we're the scummiest looking players so far. Any further reads you have would be awesome too. | ||
Hopeless1der
United States5836 Posts
Time remaining in Day 2? And that's fine sciberbia, I wasn't expecting it right this instant. Still expecting it sometime though. | ||
Hopeless1der
United States5836 Posts
I'm specifically bringing this to everyone's attention so that you can note the timestamps. I was one of the first to target Impact, and I don't want to be accused of bandwaggoning or anything like that if I can help it. On July 02 2012 08:48 Hopeless1der wrote: \/ INTACT: /\ Intact is sure he's seen this before from scum in previous games...Except they both are dead after D1/N1 and both flipped town. Following these posts, his next post is (in its entirety) No discussion, no thoughts, just hopping on board. After promethelax comes in to push his case on Fencer (which no one but me really took to), Intact sees this as a very suspicious move. Promethelax is attempting to flesh out multiple cases on day 1 instead of tunnelling one person, and Intact deems that scum behaviour because it might split the town and cause tension. On the other hand, Anacletus flipped town, so Promethelax had the right idea going after someone else. He justifies his choice to stand by his vote with: This is not true in the slightest and just screams scum to me. JH quickly picks up on it: + Show Spoiler + On June 30 2012 10:51 JingleHell wrote: Uhm, it really doesn't work that way. Because they know that we know that they know that we know... you can get as meta as you want, what it really comes down to is educated guesses, and convincing other people those judgement calls are reasonable. Both sides know the same things, and both sides can try to meta-game. You can't second guess the people who know more than you and get the same updates to info as you. All you can do is look for what they do with the information. That last line in the spoiler is the biggest point here. Intact is assuming that a lynch would reveal perfect information about who voted. That cant work since town must be involved in the mislynch, so how could you know with certainty who is scum and who is town? Unless you're scum, you cant possibly know after a D1 Lynch. Finally, he is currently lurking after saying: Maybe he's still hungover? Or maybe he's hoping no one calls him out so he can continue to lurk, post a vote with little to no thought (Seriously read his filter, he barely scratches the surface of suspecting someone), and get away scot-free again. I doubt there will be much in terms of other cases built, but I'll wait until morning like Promethelax. Intact is likely to have at least two votes tomorrow morning the way things are shaping up. Completely agree with that sentiment Myles. This whole "internet's broken" doesn't sit well with me either. | ||
Hopeless1der
United States5836 Posts
Also of note, Promethelax's vote is locked (according to him being at work and all.) Vote Count please? | ||
Hopeless1der
United States5836 Posts
On July 02 2012 06:00 ghost_403 wrote: End of Night 1 ERROR WITH FLAVOR GENERATOR. TheToast is in the shop getting repaired this weekend. Flavor soon to follow. JingleHell playing the part of a the ABL Poster, has been found dead! Day 2 has begin. You have 48 hours to decide on your next lynch. Deadline is at 22:00 GMT (+00:00). And sorry for the lack of flavor. We'll get right on fixing that. Timestamped @ 0600 KST. Shouldn't that be ~3hr19min from now? | ||
Hopeless1der
United States5836 Posts
On July 03 2012 23:01 Intact wrote: SNIP That should cover it for the moment, I'll post my reads shortly after thinking them through, been mostly concerned with defending myself the lasts couple of days. Even if he were to post a fantastic analysis, there is very little time for us to discuss and make a decision other than to push us over the edge between our picks. Unless he comes after either myself or Blindy, he's first in line to get the lynch. I don't see strong cases on anyone else. I am still reading neutral on BobtheLob. He posted a read of Intact, but it had been looking pretty clear that hes our top suspect. It has the look and feel of an underproducing townie, but could be a late bus to build his cred. He's also posted a lot more today. Bonus points for that. Still neutral. BLiND-RawR isn't getting the attention so far. I intend to pursue his case following today's lynch. He's lurked since his defense against my case on him. Very scummy behavior. Given that I have what I feel are two good reads for scum, I'd rather focus on Intact today since Promethelax's vote is locked. Vote: Intact | ||
Hopeless1der
United States5836 Posts
##Vote: Intact | ||
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