Newbie Mini Mafia XIII - Page 5
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
- His playstyle changed as of D3, after mufaa died. Whereas before, we had some reads from now-confirmed townies that he was scummy for playing passive and defensive, all of a sudden he starts to be a lot more (pro)active. This post - + Show Spoiler + On May 18 2012 04:49 BioSC wrote:Something else I've thought about last night before I went to bed, was the possibility of us 4 discussing/bringing up topics in this day vote (You, Me, Tofu, Anacletus) are all Town, and that the remaining mafia members are the lurkers waiting to come in and swing vote whomever has the most votes at the time. With Tofu's case against me coming up, I highly suspect he will be voting for me, and possibly dragging Anacletus along with him. That would still leave you with the lynch, unless of course votes are swapped. Say you believe that us 4 are town. You've at least stated that you believe that You, FirmTofu, and Anacletus are town. If you had to lynch a lurker by your own definition, who reads as strongest scum to you? At this point, hitting a lurker feels more right to me, again, tough to say based on my own case against Ana. It's fine if you read me as scum. I want to prove to town that I'm not. My unvote I hope moves thought in that direction. I feel that if you believe me as scum, I have more to risk by unvoting Anacletus and discussing a lynch on lurkers more than if I kept with my vote on Ana. It's not something I'm completely 100% sold on, but I feel like the possibility of us 4 being all town needs to come up. - My thought process on that is that, before Mufaa got shot, D3 was MYLO. All mafia had to do was push one mislynch and they win. It was going to be 5/3, a lynch and a nightkill would give them even numbers and then win. However, the vig shot caught scum off guard and brought the numbers to 5/2. Now D3 is no longer MYLO, and their plans are in trouble. Whereas before, BioSC had been pushing Anac, all of a sudden he stops. Anac may have seemed like an easy target to push for a mislynch, but now if we lynch him and he flips green, the game's not guaranteed anymore. - That explains the change in playstyle, because whereas before he'd been able to sit back, now mufaa is dead and scum's plans have to change somewhat. He pushes lurkers, and specifically mentions Hyaach before I vote for Hyaach. I'm alright with that lynch, but I don't love that he suggests the target without a vote himself, only joining later. Looking back, should have been more vocal about targeting the one lurker that was in a different time zone and might not jump to his own defense. - Also, note the people who have been suspicious of BioSC throughout the game. + Show Spoiler + On May 14 2012 12:06 BioSC wrote: Honestly, the people that keep bringing me up are 3. Dahdum, Darkfire, and YOU. On May 18 2012 09:39 FirmTofu wrote: I'll be dead by tomorrow, out of necessity for the mafia. It will be one less vote against Bio which I suspect is why they killed dahdum as well I can work on a more substantial case during D4, but my main reasons for saying that BioSC is confirmed in my eyes is that he seemed scummy to a lot of town before, had that slightly scummy read on him. Then mufaa dies and his playstyle changes immensely. During the course of D3 he becomes helpful, drumming up discussion, suggesting votes, finally voting himself. Whereas before he'd playing so passively and defensively, and had been tunneling Anac for a bit. I think he steers the vote onto lurkers D3 so as not to get either Anac or I lynched D3, which would cause some trouble for him D4 once we flip green. All of a sudden with mufaa dead you don't need 1 mislynch, you've got a get a new strat together that covers two days. | ||
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
- Some bits always seemed a little weird. His massive D1 accusation compilation, for instance. + Show Spoiler + On May 15 2012 07:08 FirmTofu wrote: Day 1 Accusation Compilation BioSC -> Hyaach (jokingly) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=334707¤tpage=5#81 dahdum -> FirmTofu (Semantics) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=334707¤tpage=5#82 Darkfire -> BioSC (Semantics) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=334707¤tpage=5#84 Unforgiven_ve -> FirmTofu (Semantics) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=334707¤tpage=5#86 BroodKingEXE -> VOTE FirmTofu (Semantics) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=334707¤tpage=5#87 ShiaoPi -> Hyaach (Semantics) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=334707¤tpage=5#89 dahdum -> Jailbreaker (Semantics) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=334707¤tpage=5#92 dahdum -> VOTE FirmTofu (Semantics) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=334707¤tpage=5#93 Ancletus ->VOTE FirmTofu (No reason) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=334707¤tpage=6#102 Ancletus -> FirmTofu (Semantics?) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=334707¤tpage=6#103 Hyaach -> Ancletus (No reason) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=334707¤tpage=6#104 Hyaach -> Ancletus (Semantics) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=334707¤tpage=6#106 austinmcc -> Ancletus (Bad play) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=334707¤tpage=6#110 ShiaoPi -> Ancletus (Bad play) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=334707¤tpage=6#113 Crossfire99 -> Ancletus (Bad play) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=334707¤tpage=6#117 Crossfire99 -> Ancletus (Semantics) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=334707¤tpage=6#118 austinmcc -> Ancletus (Contradiction) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=334707¤tpage=6#119 FirmTofu -> VOTE Ancletus (Bad play) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=334707¤tpage=7#123 ShiaoPi -> VOTE Ancletus (Bad play + Contradiction) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=334707¤tpage=7#128 dahdum -> VOTE Ancletus (Bandwagon) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=334707¤tpage=8#141 BroodKingEXE -> Ancletus (Bad Play) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=334707¤tpage=8#143 Darkfirex5 -> FirmTofu (Semantics?) -> BioSC (Bad Play?) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=334707¤tpage=8#147 Darkfirex5 -> Ancletus (Bandwagon accusation) -> Unforgiven_ve (???) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=334707¤tpage=8#158 Mufaa -> Ancletus (Bad Play) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=334707¤tpage=9#167 BioSC -> VOTE Ancletus (Bad Play) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=334707¤tpage=9#171 dahdum -> Ancletus (Bad Play) -> Hyaach (Bad Play) -> BioSC (Bad Play) -> Darkfirex5 (Bad Play) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=334707¤tpage=9#173 Darkfirex5 -> dahdum (Contradiction) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=334707¤tpage=9#176 dahdum -> BioSC (Defensive Play) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=334707¤tpage=10#181 BioSC -> darkfirex5 (Bad Play) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=334707¤tpage=10#183 FirmTofu -> Anacletus (Contradiction + Bad Play) -> Darkfirex5 (Semantics) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=334707¤tpage=10#190 BroodKingEXE -> VOTE Ancletus http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=334707¤tpage=10#193 ShiaoPi -> Hyaach (Bad Play) -> Jailbreaker (Lurker) -> Darkfirex5 (Contradiction) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=334707¤tpage=10#194 austinmcc -> VOTE BroodKingEXE (Bad Play, Contradictions, Semantics) -> Ancletus (Bad play) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=334707¤tpage=10#197 BroodkingEXE -> Jailbreaker (Lurker) -> BioSC (Defensive Play) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=334707¤tpage=11#205 BroodkingEXE -> austinmcc (Contradiction) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=334707¤tpage=11#206 Crossfire99 -> VOTE Anacletus (Bad Play) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=334707¤tpage=11#219 Anacletus -> VOTE BroodkingEXE (Cites other people's reasons) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=334707¤tpage=12#222 austinmcc -> BroodKingEXE (Contradiction) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=334707¤tpage=12#225 dahdum -> VOTE BroodKingEXE (No reason) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=334707¤tpage=12#228 BioSC -> VOTE BroodKingEXE (Cites other people's reasons) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=334707¤tpage=12#231 Mufaa -> VOTE Jailbreaker (Lurker) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=334707¤tpage=12#238 FirmTofu -> VOTE BroodKingEXE (Cites other people's reasons) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=334707¤tpage=12#240 ShiaoPi -> VOTE BroodKingEXE (Cites other people's reasons) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=334707¤tpage=13#249 Unforgiven_ve -> VOTE BroodKingEXE (Cites other people's reasons) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=334707¤tpage=13#250 austinmcc -> BroodKingEXE (Bad Play, later clarifies that he misread) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=334707¤tpage=13#251 Mufaa -> VOTE BroodKingEXE (Cites other people's posts) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=334707¤tpage=13#253 BroodKingEXE -> Mufaa (Bandwagoning) -> dahdum (Bandwagoning) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=334707¤tpage=14#264 - On D2, he keeps some votes off BioSC. + Show Spoiler + On May 15 2012 07:59 FirmTofu wrote: Unforgiven, please vote Darkfire. This is our only shot. I believe AT LEAST 2/3 votes on BioSC are mafia. This is all or nothing. On May 15 2012 08:06 FirmTofu wrote: Consider this, Day 1 you accused BioSC of mafia with a single-minded focus then Day 2 randomly decided he was town. Then when you were about to be voted to death, you decided to lynch him anyway. How is that not scummy yo? If anything, your death should be attributed solely to you because you've made a very bad case for yourself. - Then he and Bio start off D3 early just kind of toying with each other. You give me your reads. No, you give me your reads. Oh stop it you, you go first. Neither hard calling the other out, explicitly, just sort of badgering each other. Perhaps, with mufaa dead, trying to put some distance between each other so even if one drops, the other gains some town cred? - If that's your take, then the case on Bio doesn't matter at all. You see how D3 works. If town is suspicious of Bio, you post your case, claim some town cred, try to ride it to a solo victory. If they don't, you can still post it, or not, whatever. Anything that puts you and BioSC at odds is good now, because you need to create distance between the two remaining teammates. - All the speculation about this case, this post, even if it appears and even if FirmTofu is town, has kind of harmed town. It helped to stifle SOME discussion of BioSC on D3, we sort of stopped discussing him waiting on that case (I know I did). It has stifled discussion N4, because nobody really wants to speak up until this thing is posted. No matter what the post contains, no matter how BioSC flips, town has suffered by waiting around for this magical case. - Lastly, IF you read FirmTofu as scummy at all, then the medic request can feel off. We've seen 2 blues flip. That probably means another in the wings. If it's a medic, there's a decent chance that the NK gets protected. Absolute worst case scenario for mafia, because again, they've been planning for the MYLO day. NK makes it 3/2. A protect would keep us at 4/2, and really mess with plans if we lynch mafia, or another NK got protected, they're really in hot water. So by asking for the medic protect on himself, which is entirely reasonable given that we mostly read him as town, he can ensure that it won't be elsewhere and that tonight's shot doesn't get protted. I am still mulling a BioSC/FirmTofu team over in my head. It's tough for me to fully come around on Firm, and to believe we had town lurking so hard and being inactive. But there's some odd interaction between the two after mufaa flips, and it shouldn't be overlooked. Literally woke up last night and started thinking about this, but wanted to wait and post. Again, waiting on Firm's post or case or excuses or anything has robbed town of any N4 discussion we may/may not have had. This is posted in a bit of a rush before i have to leave, so let me know if anything in these two posts seems out of place. If the pieces don't fit. Heck, let me know if anyone else has been having similar suspicions. | ||
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
- He notes that dahdum was suspicious of BioSC, and that might have been a reason to NK dahdum. However, dahdum was suspicious of BOTH of them, and in fact, brought up the possibility of the two being a team. + Show Spoiler + On May 15 2012 13:34 dahdum wrote: @FirmTofu - I noticed your play style this game is much more guarded than in the last game, and you were less active in this one early on (busy in QT?). When rereading your filters from both, it seems to me you are trying to be pro-town without really putting yourself out in front. Last game you also made a suspicion list (most to least) yourself as Town, yet flip out when I do the same in this game. Care to comment on this change in gameplay? That accusation list must have taken a lot of effort, and looks pro-town, but how does it really help us? What did you unearth from that? Would you vote for BioSC? On May 15 2012 13:45 dahdum wrote: @BioSC - What is your read on FirmTofu? I'm convinced one or both of you is mafia, so I would find your thoughts interesting. Also, other than that who would you vote for right now? | ||
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
Unforgiven, you did a really nice job and came off much townier compared to our other lurkers. I don't think I would have ended up pegging you for scum, with bio, firm, and crossfire all being higher on my radar. | ||
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
I've got some postgame thoughts and questions, but would love to see obs qt if there was one, or any postgame thoughts from more experienced players, before posting them. | ||
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
Well played all, nice work mafia, looks like we were all pretty content to find each other suspicious and not keep pressuring you guys. I'm guessing we could have done better with the info we had, but you guys really didn't give up much and we didn't get a lot in the way of info out of our blue roles to close that gap. At least in my head, that's my biggest takeaway for our town play. We had activity some days, not others, but really just never had anything concrete to work off of. I know that we shouldn't be reliant on our blue roles, and we did get our only scum kill off of hyaach's shot, but I felt like we didn't get much in the way of info from them. If everyone is suspicious and nobody is confirmed come D3, should we be looking to claim, even if you're not an info role, just to try and confirm a few townies? With good breadcrumbs or sensible claims, I feel like we maybe could have come up with a better lynch target than "Pick a lurker" (although man we got a little "unlucky"). I'm sure we could have reasoned through the lynch better, but if we'd have even just one blue confirmed it would have helped. I know the obs QT wasn't terrible active, but it didn't seem like the active observers nailed the scumteam either. Combination of good mafia play and town inactivity? Or mainly one of those? Personally, I feel like I didn't play all that well. I think I was overly spammy at some points, but when I tried to cut back on that I ended up not posting at all. The mislynches I'm okay with, I thought I had decent reads and we had some agreement from others there. But I don't think I had a consistent idea of how I wanted to approach the game and play. D1 I tunneled hard on brood, D2 I tried to pull back and not push so hard for a darkfire lynch, and by the time D3 rolled around and crossfire was my top read, I just didn't want to push it because I knew I'd been wrong twice. Couldn't find any kind of sweet spot of exactly how much to trust myself, how vocal to be, and especially how to play the endgame. Sorry to Brood for pushing you so hard D1. Sorry Anac for ignoring some of your posts. But thanks all for making it enjoyable. | ||
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On May 20 2012 03:47 jaj22 wrote: Hyaach didn't get the scum kill, Tofu did. Which was the problem. Hyaach couldn't claim because it wasn't his kill, and Tofu didn't want to claim because he was a multi-shot vig and he wasn't under much pressure. Sumtiems ah reed gud. Didn't go back and check the actions today and had that wrong. | ||
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
For the vets/coaches, would there be any major changes in playstyle between a mini game and a full game and/or a game with PMs? Seems like you're basically doing the same thing, but what would you say the biggest difference is to keep in mind between a mini and a full game? | ||
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
I can't really give a good reason for the switch off Crossfire. Apart from thinking Anac was town, I had lynched Brood and darkfire, thought dahdum was scummy, and thought Mufaa was slightly towny. Once I'd been wrong that many times, I lost confidence in my reads and didn't push for Crossfire because he actually responded to the questions I asked when I called out lurkers, whereas Hyaach didn't. Not a good reason, and it got worse throughout the day because I actually had reservations about lynching Hyaach due to the time zone difference and what I thought had been a vigi breadcrumb, yet was still willing to vote for him because...don't know. Just got overly frustrated. As a question, would you say that we had a bad idea of what "scummy" behavior was? I read the guides, but it seemed that I didn't keep them in mind fully once the game started. Looking back, I feel like some of the things that felt scummy to me such as timing of posts and little contradictions shouldn't have seemed scummy when compared to the lurking/self-votes. | ||
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