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On May 01 2012 08:16 VisceraEyes wrote: I'm voting no to get into the minority.
FYI.
See how fucking stupid this plan is?
^^
*sigh*
You are becoming Blazinghand v2 right now.
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On May 01 2012 08:19 Cephiro wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2012 08:10 gonzaw wrote:Cephiro:Filter: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=333034&user=183812http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=333034¤tpage=5#84http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=333034¤tpage=5#87I found this odd, because you started very aggresively. There were some good plans (mine) floating around, and you behemently opposed them. The point is that you didn't come up with any of your own or try to generate any other discussion. You inserted doubt into plans and just bickered about them, you didn't come up with content of your own. Well, maybe honestly you thought those plans were bad, so that in itself wouldn't bother me. However, you post this: I'm not expecting to see gamebreaking strategies (especially ensuring as making them work flawlessly is quite hard), so please concentrate on finding the scum instead of trying to come up with some epic plan. And don't get greedy. If we find someone that we are sure to be scum, then do everything possible to get that person killed or lynched. If we try to get greedy and be smartasses and try to lynch three scum at once, it'll most likely bite ourselves in the ass. You are giving the usual "People stop discussing policy lynches/plans/shit and start finding scum!", yet I don't see you following your own advice. When someone asked you for your reads, you said "At the moment I am afraid to tell you I have no reason to share my reads with you.". What? You said we should try and find scum, but you don't want to contribute your reads? You started very aggressive and "keen" to find scum, but you were inactive for some time later and when you came back you didn't put any effort into doing so. I know how you can play as town Cephiro, I observed Death Factory and you were contributing and making plans like crazy. Being this aggresive and indifferent to plans is unlike you. I honestly think all the plan discussion in D1 has been stupid. I do not see people agreeing in as quickly as 24-48 hours, and it serves as a great cloak for scum, as it derails the conversation to people jabbing at each other about an optimal way of trying to game the game with voting strategies, instead of hunting the scum.
So why not create discussion about something else? Why not contribute in other manners? Why not doing anything productive other than bickering against every single plan being discussed and then disappearing from the face of the earth?
Also like I said, I don't see you being this "opposed" to plans. I read Death Factory and you were making plans all over the place. I don't believe you when you say "I honestly think all D1 plan discussions are stupid".
Lets say someone finally came up with a plan that everyone magically agreed on. Now, what will you do with it if you've found no scum?
How about BOTH making a plan and finding scum? I'm trying to find scum and I think I found 2, so how can you tell me I'm doing otherwise?
You can't seriously oppose plans because you think nobody will find scum. The plans come 2nd in finding scum, they've always been, so you can't seriously use that to justify your hatred against plans.
Just because I did not publicly share my reads with syllo does mean I haven't done it with anyone else. PM Land is a wonderful place to be in. If I don't trust syllo, why should I give him my reads? And making up false reads in the threads is just something that someone would point out as an contradiction by PMs later, and then bad townies would be jumping all over the fact and be distracted from the actual work that needs to be done.
As I've said a trillion times before, do not try to metagame me. If you try, you've already lost.
You should give reads in the thread. You may not trust syllo, but surely you trust all townies right?
If you post your reads in the thread you are 100% guaranteed THAT ALL TOWNIES WILL READ THEM. Even so, if you are doing this all in PM land, why did you say before that you will only use PMs to answer questions and stuff?
Why would you make up "false reads" in the thread? Wut?
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On May 01 2012 08:28 wherebugsgo wrote: The end result is almost exactly the same as just ignoring round A.
If you will "save those specific townies" regardless of what side they appear on, then there's no reason at all to make an elaborate plan to try to put them in the minority in the first place.
The point of my plan is to get scummy people into the majority rather than townie people into the minority (although that helps).
You do that by having people vote who are their strongest scum reads, and let those be in the majority. What's wrong with that?
@Radfield: What do you think about the plan I mentioned?
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To Cephiro:
On May 01 2012 08:39 Cephiro wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2012 08:28 gonzaw wrote: So why not create discussion about something else? Why not contribute in other manners? Why not doing anything productive other than bickering against every single plan being discussed and then disappearing from the face of the earth?
Also like I said, I don't see you being this "opposed" to plans. I read Death Factory and you were making plans all over the place. I don't believe you when you say "I honestly think all D1 plan discussions are stupid".
Just because I am not doing something productive in your opinion, _in the thread_, does not mean I wouldn't actually be doing productive stuff. Everything I do has a reason. As for "disappearing from the face of earth", as much as I like mafia games, even I have a life to live. I am not opposed to plans if they are good. So far I don't like what I see, and I have no game-breaking plan to offer either. Just because I was doing some "super-mega-epic-plan" in an earlier game does not mean I would do it in this game. Just stop trying to metagame, you are shooting yourself in the head. Whatever I have done in any games before does in no way relate to what I do now. I do not say that "All D1 plan discussions are stupid", but that statement is true to my opinion when we are talking about the D1 of this game in this thread.
Yeah, I think you are not doing anything productive in the thread, why wouldn't you? I don't know what "reasons" you are talking about, how am I supposed to believe you? What "reasons" are they?
If you want me to stop "wasting my time" (thing from PM), then why don't you post in the thread something productive? You are just telling me "I'm doing an awesome pro-town job in PM land, you just have to believe me. Oh I won't do shit in the thread, but believe me I'm dominating the game in PM-Land *wink* *wink*"
How the fuck am I supposed to believe you? Or even if that was true (that you are PMing with people and shit), I still won't know what you are doing, so I still won't know if what you are doing is pushing a scum agenda or not.
I have no hatred against plans, you are just overthinking and confirmation biasing your own thoughts. You think you found 2 scum, well good for you. Now come up with enough evidence so that the town believes you, and then we'll see if we can get them killed?
I made a post pointing out the evidence I found. The only way to get scum killed is for them to be in the majority, and have nobody else vote for them.
I want people to post their opinions on what I posted, and let them decide if they will vote for you/chaoser or not. If they don't, then yes I'm "trying to get them killed".
I did not say I will use PMs to only answer questions, you've misunderstood once again. Also, I just explained the thing about false reads. Read it again.
Basically: If I have information that I do not scum want to know, why on earth should I make it public for them? I'll gladly share my reads which do not involve information scum can benefit about in such a manner, but certain things are best kept secret, or shared with only a few chosen ones.
So let me get this straight:
The only way to lynch scum, is to have other townies not vote for them in Round B The only way other townies won't vote for them in Round B is if they know they are scum The only way they will know they are scum is if you post your scumread in the thread and post a convincing case against them
Reciprocally, if you don't post your scumreads in the thread you won't be able to get scum lynched. So please, post your scumreads, thoughts about chaoser and other players.
In response to your PM:
Point is, you're best off not trying to continue pressuring me based on your current suspicions, as they've lead you to false conclusions. I don't mind defending myself at all, especially if you feel like I do something that you find scummy. But for now, you'd be best off dropping it, concentrating on others, and observing my play and see if you can find flaws later on. Even if I would be mafia, what you have wouldn't be enough to convince people.
And trust me, some things are best left out of the thread. I also have not contradicted myself.
Why am I best off "dropping it"? Why do you want me to "concentrate on others"? If I think you are scum, why would I concentrate on somebody else? By the same reasoning, I concentrate on someone else, and that player will tell me to "concentrate on someone else" as well.
Dude, wtf is that all about? If there is some "hidden" info you have that will destroy the world if revealed, then I don't care don't post it. But contribute, post reads, thoughts, care about the game in the thread if you are town; if not you'll only make me tunnel you more.
To Ace:
On May 01 2012 08:41 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2012 08:39 Cephiro wrote:
You think you found 2 scum, well good for you. Now come up with enough evidence so that the town believes you, and then we'll see if we can get them killed?
You gonna let him just talk to you like that? If it was me there is no way that would happen. Stand up for yourself.
??? Who are you talking to? Cephiro or me?
Also Ace, you aren't doing anything productive at all either, so please take the same advice I gave to Cephiro and start contributing.
About PMs:
I'd advise you guys to post everything you can in the thread, if not this will be a fucking boring game where 70% of townies won't do shit at all, just like Space Station Mafia. Just use PMs if there are special private things to discuss, like plans, gambits, claims, special information, etc.
*sigh* I remember why I hate PM games all of a sudden. This shit is so exhausting, I barely had free time since I woke up to do anything else.. I'll take a small break for now
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On May 01 2012 09:15 Cephiro wrote: Are you scum trying to make me look bad or are you just that thickheaded? If you want me to be more productive in-thread, then how about you stop making these horrible cases I have to keep responding to.
I'll post something productive when I think it is needed. I'm not gonna start posting fluff-productive crap just for the sake of making you smile.
So where have I claimed I am dominating the game in PM-Land? You keep exaggerating my claims all the time on purpose, either you are unconciously using confirmation bias to convince yourself you are right, or then you are just scum doing it on purpose.
If you need to know what I'm doing in PM-Land, then ASK instead of crying aloud in the thread. Or maybe you could try to earn my trust and I could reply you like anyone else I trust. Doesn't sound that hard no? For all you know I am not necessarily even pushing an agenda, but only sharing opinions and reads, yet you make it look like I am pushing for some epic plan via PMs?
The "dominating PM-land" and the "hidden shit that will end the world" are obviously hyperboles. The thing is that you seem to think that you can abstain from posting in the thread just because PMs exist, and that makes it impossible to do anything for people not in the PM-loop (whether it exists or it doesn't exist and you are bluffing).
I made the "horrible case" because you weren't contributing, you refused to give out scumreads when asked, and you were very aggressive against all plans being mentioned (and of course, because you weren't "productive").
Okay then: what are you doing in PM land? Are you pressuring people? Asking for reads, or giving them yourselves?
Why don't you want to post anything in the thread? Why won't you post reads in the thread? Why won't you pressure people in the thread? Why do you want to be "excused" and want me to "concentrate on someone else" and let you live til lategame just so I can "analyse your play later"?
That's good. Now just think a bit more before you post, at the current state your cases are in my opinion easily scrubbed off, which is something you don't want to happen, whether you are town or a scum making a fake case on a townie.
So tell me how are you going to ensure you get the scum in the majority? And then ensure no-one votes them?
How is it scrubbed off?
Please: if someone thinks my case against Cephiro is total crap, please state so and state why
I make a case against you and you instantly discredit me, turn aggrressive against me and basically misdirect everything I'm saying.
Why don' t you thoroughly explain why my case is horrible and can be scrubbed off? Please I'm waiting.
Also wtf? (at the bolded bit) What does that have anything to do with what we are discussing?
Bolded is false, although it is one of the best methods for doing so. I will share my reads when I feel it contributes to the thread. At the moment I do not possess a completely pre-made case on anyone, and I'm not currently making one either. If you want to hear very vague opinions about why I think someone is leaning a certain way, sure. Or if you want me to make some super-complex-game-saving theory which busts all 6 scum to you right now, then you're best off looking elsewhere. No-one does such with certainty at this stage of the game.
So you don't have any "pre-made" cases on anyone, you are not making cases on anyone and you don't feel you have any reads worth contributing...
...then what are you waiting for?
Are you really justifying your play by saying "yep, I don't have anything to contribute so I'm not doing anything". That's scummy as shit.
And take the bolded bit, again totally misdirection and strawman. I never asked you to make a super complex plan to kill all 6 scum instantly, I (or rather other people) asked for your reads and thoughts on what's happening, and asked you to contribute more (or rather accused you of not doing that). You are going to tell me that "no-on does such at this state of the game"?
Tunneling in any case is retarded and just makes you look bad. Concentrated pressure while still being open for other options however is not. You can keep tunnelling me on all you want, but all you are doing is waste time of at least one townie effectively. I like how you keep up the pressure, but even if I was scum your current case is not enough, or then I've overestimated the level of our co-players.
You're best of dropping it because you are currently hardcore tunneling an useful townie. Why do you think I am open and even giving you tips of making a better case on me later if I was mafia?
Why do you bring up some "hidden" info shit up again? Especially about anything that would destroy the world? Are you trying to make your post look more dramatic on purpose?
Now, are you finally done and ready to move to something useful, or are you going to keep tunneling?
I may have chosen the word "tunneling" bad, but the point still stands. You want me to "concentrate" on someone else and "drop" this case against you...just because? You say you are an "useful townie" and use that as evidence for why my case is horrible and I should turn my attention off you. Can't you see how stupid that is?
At chaoser, wherebugsgo and shit:
Really? You won't even post original content?
Here:
+ Show Spoiler +On April 30 2012 18:14 gonzaw wrote: @syllogism: Maybe we can have a plan for using the Round B votes as well.
For instance, if we unanimously decide that Player X should be lynched (and he's eligible to be lynched of course), then we can do this: Player 1-Gives player nº2 5 votes Player 2-Gives player n3 5 votes ... Player X-does whatever he wants Player X+1-Gives player nºx+2 5 votes .. Last player- Gives player nº1 5 votes
Players not in Round B vote whoever they want but not X. That way, the only player lynched will be player X and all the rest will be saved.
However this depends on people unanimously deciding to lynch player X and following the plan, which I doubt will happen. We can come up with other things when the time comes, since it also depends on how many people are in Round B.
Speaking of which syllo, what do you think about the plans regarding Round A being discussed at the moment?
chaoser, will you respond to the cases made against you? Will you contribute anything at all other than bickering about the plans?
Really, chaoser, Ace, wherebugsgo, Cephiro, VisceraEyes, etc are only just bickering and bickering about the plans, and ignoring everything else said to them or happening in the thread. Surely all of you can't be mafia at the same time right? That would be too easy.
So please start contributing and trying to hunt scum instead of just repeating the same "oh oh but you can't know who is in the majority! lol hoho" crap over and over again.
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To be honest...I just copypasted it from the manga so it's not like I "figured out" anything >_>
I know that suggested plan, but the point is that nobody will unanimously determine 1 player to be lynched. So if someone thinks that player is town, they will just give him 5 votes to try to save him. If there is a very obvious scum then yes it works, but I think we can come up with something better, like some in-game voting system that's used to determine who votes who and stuff.
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On May 01 2012 09:53 chaoser wrote: one, you posted that in response to syllo, who wanted palmar to be king. Unless it's just one person in the minority, the plan will fall apart. The more people in the minority group, the more likely the votes will be fucked up because there's more people who aren't in the cycle and that means more chances for votes to not go correctly and we wil lbe unable to account for their votes and figure out a discrepancy if it comes up. not to mention you don't even bring up the idea that people should only give 4 votes to people instead of all 5 that wbg brought up to me. How is that stealing?
You posted the exact same one posted before, and it was like 80% of your post. Also I said I didn't think that idea was good the moment I posted it, so whether it gives 4 or 5 votes is irrelevant. And what does that have to do with syllo? Palmar made that plan of his way after I mentioned that to syllo.
Now chaoser, can you respond to my case and Foolishness case against you? Do you have any reasoning behind any scumreads of yours other than "Palmar is scum"?
On May 01 2012 09:55 wherebugsgo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2012 09:52 gonzaw wrote: To be honest...I just copypasted it from the manga so it's not like I "figured out" anything >_>
I know that suggested plan, but the point is that nobody will unanimously determine 1 player to be lynched. So if someone thinks that player is town, they will just give him 5 votes to try to save him. If there is a very obvious scum then yes it works, but I think we can come up with something better, like some in-game voting system that's used to determine who votes who and stuff. so in other words, you're apparently pissed that certain people are "bickering," you are apparently concerned that chaoser is not putting forth "original" ideas, and that we have to come up with something better, yet you are content with adding more bullshit to the thread, like this and your previous post? This is what I meant by "I hope you don't play the game the same way you did LI or I'll end up subconsciously ignoring you."
What bullshit are you talking about? Yes, you guys are only talking about how you hate the plans being mentioned, and that's it. Are you going to refute that?
For instance wbg, what do you think about my case on chaoser and Cephiro? Do you have any scumreads? If so, why do you think so?
About Cephiro:
Omg this is the Toad incident all over again. Okay, I won't argue more with you and this is the only thing I'll say: Cephiro is not posting any reads, contributing at all, and is only trying to argue the hell out of me right now and clog up the thread instead of addressing the issues I mentioned
So town, read this, read Cephiro's posts, and tell me what you think; I won't clog the thread up any more with this stupid back and forth Cephiro is making
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@Cephiro: If one of my issues I want you to address is "Cephiro is not posting any scumreads", then you have not addressed it at all, since you haven't posted any scumreads yet
About your question: "Why are you not pressuring others that are guilty of the same things?"
What is that supposed to mean? I think chaoser is scum and I pressured him. I am suspicious of wbg and I pressured him. I don't really think Ace is that suspicious (because he played similarly in Space Station Mafia), but he doing jack shit at all is still worrying.
Now I ask you this question: "Why do you want me to pressure other players and not you?"
About the PM:
So which of the two Mafia do you belong to, the Red Hat Rat Pack or the other one?
I just can't believe that you would play that horribly as town, which is why I'm starting to become quite sure that you're scum trying to set me up.
So now you OMGUS? *sigh* Why wouldn't you post it in the thread if you thought I'm scum?
I said it before, this is just like that Toad incident. I called him out of not contributing and not caring about the game and he spent like 5 days tunneling me and arguing with me and yet not addressing what I was accusing him from, and ended up FoSing me saying things like "you will die tomorrow" without any reasoning whatsoever I think you are doing the same thing.
@BC: Please read the thread and post your thoughts on my plan, and on the cases being made on chaoser and Cephiro
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Cephiro, what will you answer this Round A? YES or NO?
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On May 01 2012 10:45 Cephiro wrote: I have answered this question several times. I will post my scumreads in thread once I have more evidence to back it. Unlike you, I don't feel like going around blaming everyone for whatever my little mind could come up with. I have already had multiple discussions about my reads with people via PM. I consider PMs a very good way of sharing opinions about your reads before working on a proper case on them.
The people that have asked me for my reads in PM have mostly received them, instead of crying out loud here in the thread asking for scumreads without evidence. Do you really want me to post scumreads without backing them up that bad?
I've already said this, but I don't want you to make gigantic cases that catch all 6 scum, I want your thoughts and reads.
Why? I don't want to see if you will catch some hidden scum I never saw, I want to see your thought process and held you accountable for your actions in the game. I.E I want you to give us information so we can figure out your alignment (basically why everybody in the game even posts at all in the thread).
So every little "non proper case" works. If you think X is a little bit scummy, but you don't know why then post "I think X is a little bit scummy, but I don't really know why". If you think Y is very scummy but you want to make a good case later, then post "I think Y is very scummy but I want to make a good case later".
See how it works? It's called transparency, and you have none of it at the moment.
Is that what you call "pressuring wbg"? Also, can you please stop trying to be super-clever and metagaming, all you do is bring up stuff that people did in PREVIOUS GAMES. Read THIS GAME instead. Also, nice wishy-washy contradiction. "I don't think Ace is suspicious because of his meta, but it is still worrying." <-- So are you concerned of him or not?
Yes it's called pressure, what do you want me to do? Votes don't exist in this game I can't vote for anybody, just point out suspicious behaviour and call it out.
Meta is a very effective tool. Most people use it very badly and just say things like "Oh, he was active in that game when he was town, he's inactive right now so he's scum". You have to analyze behaviour and motivation when you use meta.
Here is your filter from DF2: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=324050&user=183812
You can instantly find differences. For instance, you are calm and analytical. In this game you are overcome by "emotion", you are very aggressive and you don't have a focus on things, you just cling on to something (arguing with me for instance) and stay with it for the rest of the game.
When people accuse you (syllogism for instance) and start shitting on you you keep your cool. Now someone FoSes you for the first time and you go on a rampage.
In that game you obviously care about the game. You post your thoughts every once in a while to keep up with discussion, and you do it in a straight manner without misdirecting or anything.
Here you don't care about discussion either. You started shitting on people for pointing out plans. Then when people want your reads you tell them you won't post shit. Then when someone takes notice of this and FoSes you you flip your shit and tunnel the hell out of him, without even caring about other things from the game. For instance, you don't care about the most important part: finding scum.
+ Show Spoiler [To save some space] +So if your play makes me suspicious it's omgus? You do realize that making a case on someone to distract others is something scum could very well do, which is why your point of OMGUS is just a clever way to sidestep accusations if you were scum.
Why I'm not posting here if I think you are scum? Because your filter is full of crap. There's nothing to separate you from a horrible townie or an pain-in-the-ass-annoying scum to me so far. Once I've got enough proof in my opinion to validate you as either, I'll post. As I've said multiple times before, I don't feel the need to go all "OMG HE MADE A TYPO, SCUMSLIP" on everyone about every smallest thing. I find one proper case much better than three horrible ones.
I find it funny how you are trying to turn it the other way around though, making a comparison to Toad tunneling you, trying to make it look like I am the one that tunnels you, when I've yet to go as far to say I am suspicious of you for constantly pushing a case that poor? Yes Toad tunneled me. Did I tunnel Toad? Yes, perhaps (although it was on scum so I guess it's justified). Is it almost the same situation right now? Yes. For instance, Toad did the exact same thing you are doing right now: Cephiro this game: I find it funny how you are trying to turn it the other way around though, making a comparison to Toad tunneling you, trying to make it look like I am the one that tunnels you, when I've yet to go as far to say I am suspicious of you for constantly pushing a case that poor? Toad on LI: On April 11 2012 02:19 Toadesstern wrote: just shut up gonzaw, please. Your bringing things that are clear town treats to the discussion EVERY TIME and end up saying that's a mafia treat which is just bullshit.
I am not going to talk about new reads unless I'm 100% certain about those reads because it's night. Therefore yes I am not talking about new reads, thanks for figureing out I'm a townie and telling everyone.
Also I'm not tunneling you. I'm saying you're an idiot and that people must not listen to a word you say regarding me BECAUSE YOU WANT PEOPLE TO SHOOT ME, although everyone keeps telling you you're wrong. Tunneling would be telling everyone to kill you because I think you are mafia and honestly I really doubt you're that pushy and wrong at the same time when everyone in here tells you you're wrong. I thought being a little tunnelish is a town treat for you but you're so overdoing it. I'd really like people to check gonzaw if there's a DT wandering around not knowing who to check for :p
Also: I've yet to go as far to say I am suspicious of you for constantly pushing a case that poor? Then what about this?: So which of the two Mafia do you belong to, the Red Hat Rat Pack or the other one?
I just can't believe that you would play that horribly as town, which is why I'm starting to become quite sure that you're scum trying to set me up.
None of your concern. I have sent in my answer already.
Yes it's of my concern, and of the concern of all town. Why? Because I want you to be in the majority. If you are really town, then you wouldn't mind being in the majority, right? You have all Round B to convince us you are town, so you've got nothing to hide, right?
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I'll just mention this while we are at it:
I will held you accountable for your behaviour in the thread
If you think you can go all dandy in PM-land and do shit at all in the thread you are mistaken. PMs weren't added to take all the game there. So still contribute in the thread, post reads, post your thoughts about discussions, etc, and it will be fine. I will held you accountable as if PMs don't even exist, so don't get all contempt with doing shit in the thread.
Again, let's try to minimize the negative impact PMs have in games.
On May 01 2012 11:14 Ace wrote: If you are Town of course you mind being in the majority lmao.
Who the hell wants to be a possible lynch candidate?
If you are town, then you can prove you are town to people, so you don't really have to worry.
It's like telling people "Who the hell wants to be a possible lynch candidate?" in any normal game in existence even when they don't have a single vote on them.
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@Cephiro: Only one question:
Who do you think is scum and why?
The fact that you are still missing the point baffles me.
FYI: I voted in such manner that I should be in the majority, I have no fear of being in majority. You seem to like the idea of hiding behind Palmar's forgiveness though
What are you implying? I don't care about being in the majority either. Even more, I think it will be most likely that there will be more NOs than YES' this round. I know this, yet I still voted NO to follow the plan.
On May 01 2012 11:18 Ace wrote: Orrrrr maybe if you are Town, instead of worrying about proving you are Town you avoid the lynch wagon anyway?
Orrr maybe you can stop discussing about this useless shit and give us your reads?
Where the hell are Palmar and syllo? And Foolishness for that matter
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On May 01 2012 11:24 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2012 11:09 gonzaw wrote:
Yes it's called pressure, what do you want me to do? Votes don't exist in this game I can't vote for anybody, just point out suspicious behaviour and call it out.
I stopped reading at this bullshit here.
I meant Round A of course
On May 01 2012 11:25 Ace wrote: You know what this is so laughable lets keep it simple:
If all the Townies do as you say and jump into the MAJORITY who does that leave to go into the Minority?
Scum.
Which means the only pool that people can be lynched from would be full of Town players.
Lol wow this is easy.
I'll try to keep my cool in here, but it's getting very hard to.
No, all townies won't jump into the majority, because hopefully all townies will follow the plan. This means that some townies will be in the minority, and hopefully most scum are in the majority.
Now, if you are a regular townie, you don't know if you will be in the majority or minority. Since you have to follow the plan for the sake of town, then it shouldn't matter to you if you are in the majority or minority, since it will ultimately help town (by you complying with the plan). If you are a townie, and did end up in the majority, then you prove to others you are town and let scum die instead. So if the plan is followed perfectly, and you do your part in establishing your innocence in Round B, everything is all good and dandy and only scum die.
In more general terms, if you are town, and you being in the majority is more helpful to town, then you shouldn't have any worries about being in the majority yourself. That is what I explained to Cephiro.
Now Ace, can you please stop bullshitting, answer my question and post your reads?
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On May 01 2012 11:35 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Dude? Round A is the clearly easier way to make people accountable for their votes and finding any form of pattern. Unless you force a system of mentioned earlier of how people vote (ie forcing only one person to die each cycle to the lynch) then the only accountable voting scheme is round A.
One vote gives you results of where people landed via min/maj and one is hidden tallies. You should always pressure people if you can but blatantly lying in posts to do said pressure is retarded.
What the? What are you talking about?
I meant that I can't "pressure" wbg, or chaoser by "voting" them like you would normally do in a game. As in, players have 0 fear in Round A, they can't get lynched or anything, and without a plan they can randomly be in the majority or minority.
And the "vote" you are speaking of is revealed at the end of Round A, so I don't get what you mean.
You too BC, you seem active right now, so can you tell us what you think of Cephiro, chaoser, wbg, Ace, etc?
Here are my thoughts on those players you were mentioning:
About prplz:
I don't see anything scummy with him for now. He keeps talking about "not being sure" about things, and discuss too much what happens with the "Palmogisfield-plan". He posts a lot, but doesn't scumhunt with them at all. I'm waiting for his thoughts on these last events.
About Katina:
I find it weird that she spoke with "reassurance" like you said, but other than that I can't make much out of her. She does seem very confident in her posts though,
Can you guys add Meapak's other account in the filters list? Here it is http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=333034&user=263446
To Ceph:
On May 01 2012 11:43 Cephiro wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On May 01 2012 11:09 gonzaw wrote:Meta is a very effective tool. Most people use it very badly and just say things like "Oh, he was active in that game when he was town, he's inactive right now so he's scum". You have to analyze behaviour and motivation when you use meta. Here is your filter from DF2: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=324050&user=183812You can instantly find differences. For instance, you are calm and analytical. In this game you are overcome by "emotion", you are very aggressive and you don't have a focus on things, you just cling on to something (arguing with me for instance) and stay with it for the rest of the game. When people accuse you (syllogism for instance) and start shitting on you you keep your cool. Now someone FoSes you for the first time and you go on a rampage. In that game you obviously care about the game. You post your thoughts every once in a while to keep up with discussion, and you do it in a straight manner without misdirecting or anything. Here you don't care about discussion either. You started shitting on people for pointing out plans. Then when people want your reads you tell them you won't post shit. Then when someone takes notice of this and FoSes you you flip your shit and tunnel the hell out of him, without even caring about other things from the game. For instance, you don't care about the most important part: finding scum. "Oh, he was analytical and calm in that game when he was town, he's being more "aggressive" now, so he's scum."
Even though both sentences have the same structure, they are not the same. Being "analytical and calm, taking pressure calmly, caring about the game and posting thoughts in the thread constantly and driving discussion" is not the same as just being "inactive".
Do you see what you are doing here? You do realize it doesn't even take a skilled person in psychology to fake that, or act in another way on purpose?
As for your final question, my final answer: I will give my reads when I have enough content to back it up.
If you think I am scummy for not going around pointing fingers when I am unsure myself... well, I'll let everyone make their conclusions of that. As I said before, I find making one proper case more useful rather than make 3 jabs at different people without anything to back it up.
That is all.
Argh. I already said you don't need to point fingers or make cases. Post your thoughts! Also, you are not Incognito or those guys that lurk all D1/N1 and then spout 10 gigantic cases in 1 post. You take part of discussion and post thoughts, just like in Death Factory, so I don't believe you saying "Oh I don't like posting reads/thoughts in the thread until I have a gigantic awesome case to make".
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EBWOP:
Tthat was kind of unexpected, I thought more people would have said NO.
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Hmm, I thought you would have voted NO to escape the majority (although maybe some people that voted YES thought the majority would vote NO or something).
I'll take a break, eat go to sleep and think about it tomorrow.
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To Cephiro:
Dude, I don't get wtf you are doing. Like really. People ask you reads and you start bickering about how you don't need to post them and you are "waiting for the right time" or some shit. Then, you accuse Palmar's "allies" (I guess you mean syllo) that they leak info, and when asked to justify yourself, you go on to spout some mystical bullshit about how "telling you the obvious wouldn't be fun" and shit. Really, you seem to act like Chezinu and those other guys that troll the hell out of games. But why the fuck would you troll this game if you were town? You can't say "Oh you can't use meta because good players change their meta". ...if you are town and play good you don't need to change your meta. In fact, being town you NEED to stay to your meta so people (even those "retards that use meta" (hyperbole here) that you talk about) have it easier to figure out you are town.
I can't see any reason why you would willingly change your meta, or act different than it if you are town, specially since you played very good in that game as town; and now you are playing like shit, creating chaos with your bickering, not giving any reads or reasoning behind them, and just running around trolling people.
I don't find any town motivation for you to act this way, so I still think you are scum. I'd like people to avoid voting you.
Also, wtf is with this?
To everyone using "meta": What on earth is wrong with you people? Are you seriously saying that the TL players are so poor that you can just metagame them? How about playing based on what people do this game instead of comparing it to other games. I am starting to get fed up seeing the words "based on meta" come up in every few posts.
Okay, if you don't like using meta yourself, then fine, don't use meta yourself.
But are you really undermining every use of meta? Are you really saying that every player here is a "Mafia God" who can change metas as they will when they are scum and fool everybody 100% of the time or something? Players here can make mistakes or play badly every once in a while. When they do that as scum we do find them using meta. Why are you against this? Are you just going to assume everybody in this game is Akiyama or Yokoya and that you need elaborate plans and shit to catch them? Do you really think that or are you bluffing now to avoid doing anything constructive?
If someone thinks Cephiro is town, please state why you think so.
About VE:
I was leaning town on him at first, because he was very aggressive, and at first he was actively trying to find some scum on wbg (although in a retarded fashion). However, since then he's just trolling, being disruptive, acting defeated even though not many people actually FoSed him or anything. Is this a trend or something? It's been 3 games in a row were people FoS VE and he starts acting like a crybaby and rage quitting.
I'm comparing this to LIII, where he had quite a few votes on him when he ragequitted, and quite a lot of opposition. And there he at least contributed with his reads as well, and also claimed. But now he had hardly any pressure at all when he started acting like this, and didn't contribute at all afterwards. I could see his motivation for ragequitting on LIII, but now I don't see any motivation for him to do so, specially when there isn't a normal lynch system in this game. That makes me think he's most likely mafia
About sandroba:
I have to somewhat agree with Wiggles here. I haven't seen any convincing case that he's scum, just "meta" and "he's inactve/doesn't care". I'm suspicious of him though, because I did read Space Station and he was very active and driving the game in there, while here he just seems to blend in, at least when he was posting. But can someone link to a game where he was scum? Saying "this is sandroba's scum meta" doesn't mean much if you don't link to those games (specially if they happened long ago).
About prplz:
I agree with meapak, his first posts were fluffy and he just seemed to blend in. I wouldn't mind killing him either, but I want him to first come and post his thoughts on what's happening, post his scumreads and reasoning behind them.
To chaoser:
Can you please post more reads and stop talking about this Round B plan? I don't know why some people started thinking you are town all of a sudden (or don't want to lynch you), but you still haven't contributed enough. What do you think of Cephiro for instance? What about other players?
About my votes:
I'll most definitely vote for these: Radfield Mr Wiggles
I still don't know who else to vote for, most likely ET or Sheth.
About the plan:
So what are we going to do in the end? Do the voting circle-jerk and only lynch sandroba?
If so, why sandroba and not someone else? Why not lynch Cephiro, or chaoser? I wouldn't mind sandroba dying, but who decided he was the lynch? How will we decide in later days who to lynch? Will it be just as random as wbg saying "we lynch sandroba" and everybody complying with it later?
If so, what is the voting system? I've seen everybody just say "I'll vote X,Y and Z and I won't vote sandroba and A and B". This will most likely mean that sandroba will not be the only one killed, or even some very dumb townie or mafia (like VE) can fuck with us and put all his votes on sandroba/chaoser, or the other way round.
I haven't voted yet, so I want some confirmation of what we decided to do this Round B.
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These post seem like you are ragequitting and trolling to me:
On May 02 2012 01:34 VisceraEyes wrote: Let's all kill VE and wonder where it all went wrong! It'll be fun!
Your fucking ALL scum. The hosts trolled me and you're all scum. This game is imba.
On May 02 2012 01:49 VisceraEyes wrote: It doesn't matter Sheth - I'm going to be voted off today because I was scumhunting and scum are in power. It's standard operating procedure.
On May 02 2012 05:28 VisceraEyes wrote: What if I'm town and I spend my votes trying to save Sandro because I think he's town?
What then bugs?
Okay then VE, why don't you post your reads, make cases or put some reasoning behind them (and if you still think wbg is scum please don't mention those PMs), and discuss current events? Why don't you do something?
What do you think of Cephiro? Why do you think chaoser is scum?
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I was thinking of giving 2 votes to ET and Meapak perhaps. I know most people will likely be voting Radfield, Wiggles, etc more, so they will most likely receive lots of votes, while ET, Meapak, Sheth, etc will receive less. If so, it's possible VE and sandroba pull something up and let those get lynched instead.
But anyways, I'll wait to see how all the votes are organized first before voting.
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wbg told me (PMs) that he had a spreadsheet done and would post it after he comes from work or something. I'm waiting for him atm.
@VE: *sigh* really? Random list of scumreads with 0 reasoning behind them?
@Katina: Could you give more thorough reasoning for thinking ET/Radfield are scum? At least taking into account their recent play/lack of play? And again post some reasoning for thinking Palmar is mafia.
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