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Alright.
Two things: I find VE's faux objection to gonzaw's case really scummy. It was never backed up by any convincing analysis and it was brushed over by "I don't like the plan"
Second: BH's tunnelling of me makes me despair. This is Day 1. I would really really really love to have super strong scummy cases to make on someone, but I don't. At the moment, I think sloosh's case on VE is as strong as it gets, and echos my own sentiments on how the game has played out.
There have been many more lurkers, but the only inconsistency I have found has been VE's nonsense.
##Vote: VisceraEyes
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Ok, sadly I have to go to bed and not argue like fuck against my lynch. Some thoughts
1) there is currently no opposition to my lynch. If I'm scum, apparently scum are happy for me to die 2) there is VE's inconsistent attack on gonzaw's case with absolutely no further explanation. So, my vote on VE 3) I'm usually very active. So I had a bloody social life for a day and I'm being crucified for one-liners which I've expanded upon 4) BH is tunnelling me like fuck. I can't even believe he's scum because it's just ridiculous 5) There are a bunch of inactive players who are being given an easy ride when apparently i'm easy to lynch. Why? To those who aren't BH - I had little time, and since I've done my best to explain my feelings on what I've seen. Please, if you're going to lynch me, at least demonstrate my scummy motives.
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I don't really understand the Claim either. The thread consensus had already arrived at the fact that we weren't going to mass claim vigis.
Why then the need to claim Jailkeeper? Just on the offchance that if scum weren't going to shoot him tonight, they definitely will now? Completely mistimed claim, as he didn't have to 'stop' a massclaim plan at this point.
Bad bad bad
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On April 23 2012 00:03 VisceraEyes wrote: Not a tantrum - just not interested in defending myself further. If anyone wants to listen to reason I can feasibly get down on a scum lynch, but I'm not going to waste any more time defending myself when it's useless.
But you know, continue to be a jerk about it laya...that's about par for the course where you're concerned.
Claiming when you did just makes no sense though. It was quite clear gonzaw's plan was not going to be implemented, so the claim was completely unnecessary.
You said "scumhunting wins games". Yes, but having blue roles that could prevent Mafia KP is also pretty useful, and discounting that is not sensible.
You've also managed to throw suspicion on a lot of people without making a compelling case either way.
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On April 23 2012 04:04 layabout wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2012 03:32 Mementoss wrote: The more I think of it, the more I agree and like Gonzaws points on why lynching Risen is better than VE or BM.
VE very well could be JK, his claim doesn't make sense either side. If we don't lynch him and his claim is true, scum will most likely take care of him either tonight or the next night. Maybe by then he can somehow prove his claim. I think its best to wait it out. Worse case by lynching him we take out our own blue. Let mafia waste KP on that.
BM should be vigged if we have a vig, claim the shot before you shoot. If he doesn't die, We know that, either the shooter or BM is GF. Hes lurking and acting scummy, but hard to tell cause he has like 3 posts. Lynching him doesn't tell us anything if hes town, shooting him is the better option.
Also I like gonzaws case on Risen. His posts lack meaning and consistency. He has a hard time to commiting to anything and his emotions are all over the place. Im happy with a Risen lynch over the other two. Risen looks scummy, and the other two cases will hopefully work themselves out with night actions/ VE somehow confirms his claim then gets killed by mafia KP.
##Unvote: VisceraEyes ##Vote: Risen Show nested quote +If we don't lynch him and his claim is true, scum will most likely take care of him either tonight or the next night. If VE was right about anything it's that he is not a good shot for mafia. Saying let's not lynch this guy that people are willing to lynch because if he is town the mafia will kill him for us is crazy. If VE is town they his a a walking mislynch tying his own noose. Since mafia's greatest threat is the lynch, townies that might get mislynched are townies that the mafia benefit from keep alive. Please come up with a scenario in which this could happen. I can't think of one. no we don't (cough jailkeeper or a liar cough ) Show nested quote + Lynching him doesn't tell us anything if hes town, shooting him is the better option. wtf? who is lynching him for information? point them out so that we can all say that you never lynch for information because that is dumb, you lynch to hit scum. I don't get this "I want us to vig BM not lynch him" the lynch is reliable but a vig shot in a game that might not have vigi's could have multiple Jailkeepers and has 2 bulletproof mafia is not garanteed to get us a flip.
People should read and understand this post. I don't understand why people are moving off VE on the basis off potential night-actions that may or may not happen (and which mafia could work out and discuss to their favour).
VE so far this game made a ridiculous objection to gonzaw's plan, before fabricating some weird case against gonzaw on the basis of a scum-slip that wasn't even a scum-slip.
Then he goes and claims JK on the basis that he needed to stop a plan that wasn't actually happening. Timing-wise it was just ridiculous. I can't understand the motivations for it, and if that was the reason it was a terrible one. From LI I've learnt that I can't find the rational reason, probably there's an underlying scum one.
Added to the fact that I've lost count of who VE is happy to lynch and point fingers at.
Why are we moving off VE when he's a walking liability to us if he lives?
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On April 23 2012 06:29 Risen wrote: I haven't even placed my vote on marv yet >.> It is my intention to do so, though. Everyone on VE should be shot/lynched. I'll vote for anyone on him. Only an idiot would vote for VE and we're better off with all of them dead.
Sadly this sounds like Risen's town meta.
"Anyone who disagrees with me is scum". It's a recurring theme, he did it in LI too.
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+ Show Spoiler +On April 23 2012 06:47 Mementoss wrote:I would like to note the reasoning behind the people voting VE here: Ottoxol: + Show Spoiler +On April 22 2012 16:36 Ottoxlol wrote: He has 5 votes right now against marv's 6.
Is he a good player?
He argued we shouldn't give any info to the scum then claim he's a JK.
If he did not claim and we lynch marv or anyone, then scum wouldnt kill him because he had votes.
This contradiction is enough for me to vote VE, everyone saying he is a good player, if he is indeed town JK he shouldn't have played this way. So I trust you guys on that he is good also that means he is a scum.
##Vote: VisceraEyes
Sloosh: + Show Spoiler +On April 22 2012 07:13 slOosh wrote:slOosh's "VisceraEyes is scum" case.First item: VE's rebuttal of Gonzaw's plan.. Notice how VE does not actually discuss the pros and cons of the plan itself, but instead chooses to only talk about how unfeasible it is based solely on the idea of a non-cooperative JK (which might not even exist). His point by point breakdown ,which he says is for "ease of comprehension", is actually an excuse to set up strawmen, as he avoids talking about the plan itself but rather nitpicks at each point on inconsequential points. Go read the post. If you can honestly see any of the points being valid discussion of gonzaw's plan, then let's discuss that. But all I see is "analysis" used as an excuse to paint gonzaw in a bad light. No actual valid points.
Second item: VE's "scumslip" catchIf you look at gonzaw's post in question, you will see that he consistently uses plural pronouns "we", and so it would be totally natural to use "our" to describe the plan. Yet VE chooses to vote after catching this "scumslip", rather than demonstrating to town how gonzaw is proposing an anti-town agenda in the giant "analysis" of his rebuttal.
Third item: VE's evasion when asked for clarificationThe post linked is the start of the evasion. Watch how Ottoxlol brings up how VE's rebuttal doesn't make much sense, and multiple times VE evades it without really wanting to flesh out his reasoning and discuss his stance. Townies aren't scared to discuss their stances - only mafia are scared of scrutiny as they fear their scum agenda being revealed. More prodding and VE gives this "explanation" Show nested quote +On April 21 2012 11:40 VisceraEyes wrote: Because the whole plan hinges on JKs following the plan and I wouldn't in my LIFE follow a mass claim plan D1 giving scum information if I were a JK. To which Ottoxlol points out how illogical that is Show nested quote +On April 21 2012 11:49 Ottoxlol wrote: I still find it amazing that VE missed the point about JKs and still not responding directly why wouldn't the JKs not follow the plan.
So we'll know who are the vigs, and later scum wont be able to fakeclaim. We already discussed why wouldn't scum fake-claim. Scum doesn't want to kill real vigs first, so the information we are giving up is negligible
Final item: VE's apathy, misrepresentation and fearmongering (no link as there are 2 quotes) Show nested quote +On April 21 2012 15:50 VisceraEyes wrote: I'm done talking about claiming plans. Anyone who has a role is free to speculate however they choose. You're giving scum all the information they need.
I've made my opinion known. I feel like it town wants to adopt this ridiculous claim plan, then JKs and Trackers are going to be forced to participate. I wouldn't advocate participating in the plan in the first place.
Anyway, my vote on gonzaw stands - especially now that he thinks I'm scum because I disagree with a mass-claim plan. Unbelievable. Note how VE clearly has a stance (thinks gonzaw's plan is ridiculous and terrible) but doesn't actually move to help explain and convince town why it is bad. Instead, it is like "you guys do what you want, I don't advise it, it is clearly pro scum, but you guys decide if you want to do it or not". Why wouldn't a townie be more vocal and start convincing people why it is bad if they truly believed it was pro scum agenda? Why would they be so apathetic? Fearmongering comes in the first line - it is true that this plan outs our vigs, but really - to say that it "gives scum all the information they need" is quite the exaggeration, and as discussed by others, the information isn't that valuable (cf. Ottoxlol's post in my third point). Misrepresentation is in the last line - gonzaw thinks that VE is scum because of his apathy and focus on irrelevant points and lack of proper scumhunting. ( here and here) Show nested quote +On April 22 2012 00:46 VisceraEyes wrote: gonzaw's response to my vote was terribad. Everyone should be voting for him or explaining why he's town plz.
For anyone who's all like "Hey I don't think scum would stick their neck out with some plan", I say only "OH REALLY FOOL? You don't think scum would be willing to trade a modicum of suspicion on them for the identities of all of our vigs?"
He's pushing a scum agenda in trying to fish for claims, and I for one will NOT ALLOW IT! Again, he hasn't bothered to explain why this information is detrimental to town, and is instead misinterpreting it to make it seem like scum agenda. His whole beef is centered on how this plan outs our vigs, but he has never bothered explaining why that is bad, and intentionally does not acknowledge how it is different from other mass claims because it is actually 1) only making vigs claim, and 2) vigs have the death miller mechanic, which is the crux of gonzaw's plan.
Conclusion: VisceraEyes has displayed a lack of scumhunting, misrepresentation of facts, fearmongering, evasion, apathy to town agenda and illogical arguments. Therefore, he must be scum. ##Vote VisceraEyes Bill Murray: No reason Marveoullosity: + Show Spoiler +On April 22 2012 09:31 marvellosity wrote: Alright.
Two things: I find VE's faux objection to gonzaw's case really scummy. It was never backed up by any convincing analysis and it was brushed over by "I don't like the plan"
Second: BH's tunnelling of me makes me despair. This is Day 1. I would really really really love to have super strong scummy cases to make on someone, but I don't. At the moment, I think sloosh's case on VE is as strong as it gets, and echos my own sentiments on how the game has played out.
There have been many more lurkers, but the only inconsistency I have found has been VE's nonsense.
##Vote: VisceraEyes layabout(couldnt find in thread vote hopefully this is right post reflecting): + Show Spoiler +On April 22 2012 21:15 layabout wrote: First off. ##unvote marvellosity
BH's case was good when you consider how early on it was posted. The case was centred around the idea that marvellosity was actively lurking (at the beginning of the game. Marvellosity is no longer actively lurking I think that marvellosity has tried to be more open and has reacted to BH's increasingly ridiculous pressure in a very town like way.
This BM wagon doesn't appear to have any grounding. It is a mindless vote on a lurker, the sort that usually hits town and is easy for scum to hop onto. If you are on that wagon please consider that there are definitely town lurkers and if you pick one at random you are likely to pick town. If somebody else picks a lurker and you support them then there is not only the chance that they will pick town by chance but the chance that they are scum and they are deliberately picking tow.
Thirdly, The only reason to not vote for VisceraEyes is the following:
You believe that he is telling the truth about his claim.
If you believe that then you also have to believe that VisceraEyes would make that appalling move as the real town Jailkeeper. [ UON]Sentinel: + Show Spoiler +On April 22 2012 22:01 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: Ok. What the hell is a "non-cooperative Jailkeeper"?
Coupled with trying to sway townies so much over the course of this thread, I feel no shame in voting VE.
##Unvote: ghost_403 ##Vote: VisceraEyes
St. Dan is next on my list. As for Brood, his last post was fluff but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt. VE(for completeness): + Show Spoiler +On April 22 2012 23:48 VisceraEyes wrote: K this game is no longer interesting to me. I'm not interested in defending myself.
##Unvote: Bill Murray ##Vote: VisceraEyes
For anyone concerned about me "playing to my win-condition", D1 discussion is ruined and I can accept my part in that. Lynch me, flip me, and do what you will with the information. You'll win with it. And therefor, I'll win. I'm playing to my win-condition.
gg As you read more and more, the only person voting VE with an actual case seems to be sloosh and layabout. Most people are voting him NOT because they think he is scum, but because his claim was bad. Or they think he is bad. We vote for people for SCUMMY actions! Bad town =/= scum. Is this really worth the risk of eliminating 1/3 of our blue roles on day 1? Can VE technically prove his claim? Yes. But its very difficult. He needs to have a successful protect. Or he needs to be tracked and confirmed. I personally do not think he is the scummiest player atm. If you do, for all means leave your vote on him. Do not keep your vote on him because he is bad or bad claim. All people that voted for him for that reason, explain in detail why he is more scummy than Marveoulosity or Riven? Layabout mentioned the high risk of the lynch but is still heavily supporting it: Show nested quote +On April 23 2012 02:22 layabout wrote: The problem with VE is that lynching him is high risk, but since his reaction to questionng has been to martyr himself i think that right now we should take that risk.
I really oppose it because I do not want us to lose 1/3 our blues on day 1, from sheeping and stupidity. It seems like this has gained the most sheeping. And people are taking the easy reasoning to vote VE. It seems suspicious to me, also most people are just ignoring and not commenting on the Riven case. Or they are not justifiying why VE is more suspicious than the other popular suspects. If you haven't done this, do it. Currently waiting on Rivens reply towards Gonzaws case on him. All this being said I will not be voting VE tonight, it seems like it will be between Riven or Marv.
Clearly you haven't bothered to read my posts if you maintain that what you spoilered under me is the main reason I'm voting VE.
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On April 23 2012 06:56 Mementoss wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2012 06:53 marvellosity wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On April 23 2012 06:47 Mementoss wrote:I would like to note the reasoning behind the people voting VE here: Ottoxol: + Show Spoiler +On April 22 2012 16:36 Ottoxlol wrote: He has 5 votes right now against marv's 6.
Is he a good player?
He argued we shouldn't give any info to the scum then claim he's a JK.
If he did not claim and we lynch marv or anyone, then scum wouldnt kill him because he had votes.
This contradiction is enough for me to vote VE, everyone saying he is a good player, if he is indeed town JK he shouldn't have played this way. So I trust you guys on that he is good also that means he is a scum.
##Vote: VisceraEyes
Sloosh: + Show Spoiler +On April 22 2012 07:13 slOosh wrote:slOosh's "VisceraEyes is scum" case.First item: VE's rebuttal of Gonzaw's plan.. Notice how VE does not actually discuss the pros and cons of the plan itself, but instead chooses to only talk about how unfeasible it is based solely on the idea of a non-cooperative JK (which might not even exist). His point by point breakdown ,which he says is for "ease of comprehension", is actually an excuse to set up strawmen, as he avoids talking about the plan itself but rather nitpicks at each point on inconsequential points. Go read the post. If you can honestly see any of the points being valid discussion of gonzaw's plan, then let's discuss that. But all I see is "analysis" used as an excuse to paint gonzaw in a bad light. No actual valid points.
Second item: VE's "scumslip" catchIf you look at gonzaw's post in question, you will see that he consistently uses plural pronouns "we", and so it would be totally natural to use "our" to describe the plan. Yet VE chooses to vote after catching this "scumslip", rather than demonstrating to town how gonzaw is proposing an anti-town agenda in the giant "analysis" of his rebuttal.
Third item: VE's evasion when asked for clarificationThe post linked is the start of the evasion. Watch how Ottoxlol brings up how VE's rebuttal doesn't make much sense, and multiple times VE evades it without really wanting to flesh out his reasoning and discuss his stance. Townies aren't scared to discuss their stances - only mafia are scared of scrutiny as they fear their scum agenda being revealed. More prodding and VE gives this "explanation" Show nested quote +On April 21 2012 11:40 VisceraEyes wrote: Because the whole plan hinges on JKs following the plan and I wouldn't in my LIFE follow a mass claim plan D1 giving scum information if I were a JK. To which Ottoxlol points out how illogical that is Show nested quote +On April 21 2012 11:49 Ottoxlol wrote: I still find it amazing that VE missed the point about JKs and still not responding directly why wouldn't the JKs not follow the plan.
So we'll know who are the vigs, and later scum wont be able to fakeclaim. We already discussed why wouldn't scum fake-claim. Scum doesn't want to kill real vigs first, so the information we are giving up is negligible
Final item: VE's apathy, misrepresentation and fearmongering (no link as there are 2 quotes) Show nested quote +On April 21 2012 15:50 VisceraEyes wrote: I'm done talking about claiming plans. Anyone who has a role is free to speculate however they choose. You're giving scum all the information they need.
I've made my opinion known. I feel like it town wants to adopt this ridiculous claim plan, then JKs and Trackers are going to be forced to participate. I wouldn't advocate participating in the plan in the first place.
Anyway, my vote on gonzaw stands - especially now that he thinks I'm scum because I disagree with a mass-claim plan. Unbelievable. Note how VE clearly has a stance (thinks gonzaw's plan is ridiculous and terrible) but doesn't actually move to help explain and convince town why it is bad. Instead, it is like "you guys do what you want, I don't advise it, it is clearly pro scum, but you guys decide if you want to do it or not". Why wouldn't a townie be more vocal and start convincing people why it is bad if they truly believed it was pro scum agenda? Why would they be so apathetic? Fearmongering comes in the first line - it is true that this plan outs our vigs, but really - to say that it "gives scum all the information they need" is quite the exaggeration, and as discussed by others, the information isn't that valuable (cf. Ottoxlol's post in my third point). Misrepresentation is in the last line - gonzaw thinks that VE is scum because of his apathy and focus on irrelevant points and lack of proper scumhunting. ( here and here) Show nested quote +On April 22 2012 00:46 VisceraEyes wrote: gonzaw's response to my vote was terribad. Everyone should be voting for him or explaining why he's town plz.
For anyone who's all like "Hey I don't think scum would stick their neck out with some plan", I say only "OH REALLY FOOL? You don't think scum would be willing to trade a modicum of suspicion on them for the identities of all of our vigs?"
He's pushing a scum agenda in trying to fish for claims, and I for one will NOT ALLOW IT! Again, he hasn't bothered to explain why this information is detrimental to town, and is instead misinterpreting it to make it seem like scum agenda. His whole beef is centered on how this plan outs our vigs, but he has never bothered explaining why that is bad, and intentionally does not acknowledge how it is different from other mass claims because it is actually 1) only making vigs claim, and 2) vigs have the death miller mechanic, which is the crux of gonzaw's plan.
Conclusion: VisceraEyes has displayed a lack of scumhunting, misrepresentation of facts, fearmongering, evasion, apathy to town agenda and illogical arguments. Therefore, he must be scum. ##Vote VisceraEyes Bill Murray: No reason Marveoullosity: + Show Spoiler +On April 22 2012 09:31 marvellosity wrote: Alright.
Two things: I find VE's faux objection to gonzaw's case really scummy. It was never backed up by any convincing analysis and it was brushed over by "I don't like the plan"
Second: BH's tunnelling of me makes me despair. This is Day 1. I would really really really love to have super strong scummy cases to make on someone, but I don't. At the moment, I think sloosh's case on VE is as strong as it gets, and echos my own sentiments on how the game has played out.
There have been many more lurkers, but the only inconsistency I have found has been VE's nonsense.
##Vote: VisceraEyes layabout(couldnt find in thread vote hopefully this is right post reflecting): + Show Spoiler +On April 22 2012 21:15 layabout wrote: First off. ##unvote marvellosity
BH's case was good when you consider how early on it was posted. The case was centred around the idea that marvellosity was actively lurking (at the beginning of the game. Marvellosity is no longer actively lurking I think that marvellosity has tried to be more open and has reacted to BH's increasingly ridiculous pressure in a very town like way.
This BM wagon doesn't appear to have any grounding. It is a mindless vote on a lurker, the sort that usually hits town and is easy for scum to hop onto. If you are on that wagon please consider that there are definitely town lurkers and if you pick one at random you are likely to pick town. If somebody else picks a lurker and you support them then there is not only the chance that they will pick town by chance but the chance that they are scum and they are deliberately picking tow.
Thirdly, The only reason to not vote for VisceraEyes is the following:
You believe that he is telling the truth about his claim.
If you believe that then you also have to believe that VisceraEyes would make that appalling move as the real town Jailkeeper. [ UON]Sentinel: + Show Spoiler +On April 22 2012 22:01 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: Ok. What the hell is a "non-cooperative Jailkeeper"?
Coupled with trying to sway townies so much over the course of this thread, I feel no shame in voting VE.
##Unvote: ghost_403 ##Vote: VisceraEyes
St. Dan is next on my list. As for Brood, his last post was fluff but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt. VE(for completeness): + Show Spoiler +On April 22 2012 23:48 VisceraEyes wrote: K this game is no longer interesting to me. I'm not interested in defending myself.
##Unvote: Bill Murray ##Vote: VisceraEyes
For anyone concerned about me "playing to my win-condition", D1 discussion is ruined and I can accept my part in that. Lynch me, flip me, and do what you will with the information. You'll win with it. And therefor, I'll win. I'm playing to my win-condition.
gg As you read more and more, the only person voting VE with an actual case seems to be sloosh and layabout. Most people are voting him NOT because they think he is scum, but because his claim was bad. Or they think he is bad. We vote for people for SCUMMY actions! Bad town =/= scum. Is this really worth the risk of eliminating 1/3 of our blue roles on day 1? Can VE technically prove his claim? Yes. But its very difficult. He needs to have a successful protect. Or he needs to be tracked and confirmed. I personally do not think he is the scummiest player atm. If you do, for all means leave your vote on him. Do not keep your vote on him because he is bad or bad claim. All people that voted for him for that reason, explain in detail why he is more scummy than Marveoulosity or Riven? Layabout mentioned the high risk of the lynch but is still heavily supporting it: Show nested quote +On April 23 2012 02:22 layabout wrote: The problem with VE is that lynching him is high risk, but since his reaction to questionng has been to martyr himself i think that right now we should take that risk.
I really oppose it because I do not want us to lose 1/3 our blues on day 1, from sheeping and stupidity. It seems like this has gained the most sheeping. And people are taking the easy reasoning to vote VE. It seems suspicious to me, also most people are just ignoring and not commenting on the Riven case. Or they are not justifiying why VE is more suspicious than the other popular suspects. If you haven't done this, do it. Currently waiting on Rivens reply towards Gonzaws case on him. All this being said I will not be voting VE tonight, it seems like it will be between Riven or Marv. Clearly you haven't bothered to read my posts if you maintain that what you spoilered under me is the main reason I'm voting VE. Just read your filter, and it seems that what I spoilered was the TLDR version of why you voted him wasn't it? His case against gonzaws plan was bad and hes inconsistent. Why is he a better vote than Risen in you opinion since you never commented on that case (aka why is he scummier)? Also, do you personally think its worth risking a day 1 lynch of 1/3 of our blues? If so, why?
The thing that gives me the biggest scumvibe on VE (and I have said this at least 3 times, but I will say it again just for you, sweetie) was the timing of the claim - when gonzaw's plan wasn't going to be implemented. Mafia LI taught me that timing is an important thing - wbg caught VE out because VE fingered Toad as scum but didn't post a case until much later. In this case, taking the merits of the claim aside (my obvious stance was that it's bad), it's the timing of the claim that gives me such a bad feeling. Of course it's a risk, but if he's scum then he should die, simple as that.
Having said that, I just read Paqman's full case on Risen just there. The flipflopping and inconsistencies Paqman points out are very strong - talking about easy wagons then wagoning, vote on me instead of Bill Murray, vote on me when he just pronounced jdub as his main scum read... he's basically saying one thing then doing the other.
At the moment I would be happy with either a Risen or VE lynch.
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On April 23 2012 07:03 ghost_403 wrote: @johnnywup: I have no idea why you thought a few hours before the lynch was a good time to bring forward another lynch candidate. Seriously?
I'm not really seeing why Risen is scum. Sure, he's loud, obnoxious and belligerent, but that doesn't say anything about his alignment.
I'm still pretty happy with a VE lynch. I thought he was scum before he claimed, and I don't buy his claim. Even if his claim is true, he's functioning in an anti-town manner. Also, I'm surprised that no one has brought up the point that he's pretty much ragequit.
Marvellosity is still posting nothing of content. I'd be down with that lynch.
This, if he is indeed town he is not playing to his wincon in any way. Maybe I don't know VE well enough, but he just doesn't seem like the type to give up so abjectly as town. As scum, 'ragequitting' could be a decent ploy at avoiding the lynch given the continuing support for my lynch and a Risen lynch.
If VE is town he should fucking well play like town and help town. His *only* defence before ragequitting was "I didn't like gonzaw's plan so I claimed" which I've tried to point out is bs anyway. That's IT. That's all he's tried. He should be lynched.
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On April 23 2012 07:21 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2012 07:20 PaqMan wrote:On April 23 2012 07:16 BlazingJitsu wrote:On April 23 2012 07:14 Risen wrote:On April 23 2012 07:13 ghost_403 wrote:On April 23 2012 05:33 Risen wrote: Honestly johnnywup is my biggest scumread atm Pac. I have no idea why he thinks forwarding another lynch candidate at the last second is a good idea, and it just shits up the thread. Do we take the case against him seriously? Do we try and organize everyone to swap their votes over to zeph even though no one else has mentioned zeph as a serious candidate thus far? We can't do that, we don't have the time.
I know I was against it before, but I don't see how marvel could be pushing a lynch on VE right now. We can't lynch our claimed JK. It's been stated in the thread but I'll state it again. You don't lynch a claimed doctor, and we shouldn't lynch the closest thing we have to a doctor. Is it possible VE is lying? Yup. He might be lying and be a vigi, or a tracker, or scum, or vanilla. Doesn't matter. The only shitty thing is that the person who is jailed doesn't know they were jailed, so I don't know how to confirm his claim.
Regardless, a vote on VE is stupid. It's just like everyone who voted for me when I claimed a guaranteed sane detective with a red check. Only an idiot would vote for said blue unless it was LYLO. It's applicable here. We can't lynch someone who claims such a powerful blue role right now. Is it a shitty claim? Yeah. I don't think it was smart, but we have to roll with it now that it's in the open. Any trackers watch him, I guess.
I'm voting marvel. Pre-EBWOP I just looked at the voting thread prior to hitting post. What the hell is going on? How can you lynch a claimed blue? This is so stupid. If need be I'll vote BM b/c I'm all for lynching someone who's being useless, but for now my vote is resting on marvel.
##vote marvellosity On April 23 2012 07:10 Risen wrote:On April 23 2012 07:07 PaqMan wrote:Risen your defense is full of shit and fails to explain your: - wishy-washyness,
- overreacting, overly-defensive attitude,
- sudden jump on the marv wagon, even though johnny is your biggest scumread
He is scum. Take note of the actions he's made so far and read through his entire filter, and you'll see how scummy this guy is. No one is going to pay attention to you. You're an idiot. WHAT WAGON DID I JUMP ON. I never even placed my vote on marv. Go look at the voting thread. derpderpderp, I'm hurrdurrPaq, I don't actually read anything, I just jump on Gonzaw's case, say I'm going to be away, but actually never leave when Risen comes to defend himself. Now go quote me int he voting thread. Oh wait, you can't, because I never actually voted for him. Durr, le hurr, hur hurr Risen I would like to thank you: at least you're not derping up the thread like at least 6 players are in this game. The fact that some of these players MUST be town and not scum is just apalling. oh hai your finally back from lunch. I assume you're going to go back to shitting up the thread with your half-assed claims? No, that's you, scum. I'm here to save the town from you and jubjubs.
-Blazinghand
I'm genuinely looking forward to throwing this in your face post-game.
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On April 23 2012 07:24 BlazingJitsu wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2012 07:22 marvellosity wrote:On April 23 2012 07:21 Blazinghand wrote:On April 23 2012 07:20 PaqMan wrote:On April 23 2012 07:16 BlazingJitsu wrote:On April 23 2012 07:14 Risen wrote:On April 23 2012 07:13 ghost_403 wrote:On April 23 2012 05:33 Risen wrote: Honestly johnnywup is my biggest scumread atm Pac. I have no idea why he thinks forwarding another lynch candidate at the last second is a good idea, and it just shits up the thread. Do we take the case against him seriously? Do we try and organize everyone to swap their votes over to zeph even though no one else has mentioned zeph as a serious candidate thus far? We can't do that, we don't have the time.
I know I was against it before, but I don't see how marvel could be pushing a lynch on VE right now. We can't lynch our claimed JK. It's been stated in the thread but I'll state it again. You don't lynch a claimed doctor, and we shouldn't lynch the closest thing we have to a doctor. Is it possible VE is lying? Yup. He might be lying and be a vigi, or a tracker, or scum, or vanilla. Doesn't matter. The only shitty thing is that the person who is jailed doesn't know they were jailed, so I don't know how to confirm his claim.
Regardless, a vote on VE is stupid. It's just like everyone who voted for me when I claimed a guaranteed sane detective with a red check. Only an idiot would vote for said blue unless it was LYLO. It's applicable here. We can't lynch someone who claims such a powerful blue role right now. Is it a shitty claim? Yeah. I don't think it was smart, but we have to roll with it now that it's in the open. Any trackers watch him, I guess.
I'm voting marvel. Pre-EBWOP I just looked at the voting thread prior to hitting post. What the hell is going on? How can you lynch a claimed blue? This is so stupid. If need be I'll vote BM b/c I'm all for lynching someone who's being useless, but for now my vote is resting on marvel.
##vote marvellosity On April 23 2012 07:10 Risen wrote:On April 23 2012 07:07 PaqMan wrote:Risen your defense is full of shit and fails to explain your: - wishy-washyness,
- overreacting, overly-defensive attitude,
- sudden jump on the marv wagon, even though johnny is your biggest scumread
He is scum. Take note of the actions he's made so far and read through his entire filter, and you'll see how scummy this guy is. No one is going to pay attention to you. You're an idiot. WHAT WAGON DID I JUMP ON. I never even placed my vote on marv. Go look at the voting thread. derpderpderp, I'm hurrdurrPaq, I don't actually read anything, I just jump on Gonzaw's case, say I'm going to be away, but actually never leave when Risen comes to defend himself. Now go quote me int he voting thread. Oh wait, you can't, because I never actually voted for him. Durr, le hurr, hur hurr Risen I would like to thank you: at least you're not derping up the thread like at least 6 players are in this game. The fact that some of these players MUST be town and not scum is just apalling. oh hai your finally back from lunch. I assume you're going to go back to shitting up the thread with your half-assed claims? No, that's you, scum. I'm here to save the town from you and jubjubs.
-Blazinghand I'm genuinely looking forward to throwing this in your face post-game. I'm genuinely looking forward to hanging your worthless scum ass in the next few hours.
-Blazinghand
I thought it was only bad newbs who tunneled so much and used confirmation bias so heavily in their cases. Apparently I was quite wrong.
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On April 23 2012 07:27 BlazingJitsu wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2012 07:24 PaqMan wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On April 23 2012 07:21 BlazingJitsu wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2012 07:15 ghost_403 wrote: BlazingJitsu, you down with a Risen lynch? The only lynch I am down with is a Marv lynch. i will consider a paq lynch, but only as a last resort-- it's much better to lynch Marv first THEN paq, since a lot of my suspicion of Paq is an associative tell of Marv. Step 1) lynch Marv. Step 2) Lynch Paq As a side note, TL's freaking flood control is preventing me from reacting quickly to most replies. I think this account is only allowed to post once every 5 minutes or so since it's new. Unless it's really urgent expect a 5ish minute delay for any post from this account. If it comes down to it I'll make the posts using Blazinghand and then repeat them with this account to make them filter-viewable. EBWOP to any posts I made in the past 5 minutes:
-Blazinghand Show nested quote +On April 23 2012 07:20 PaqMan wrote:On April 23 2012 07:16 BlazingJitsu wrote:On April 23 2012 07:14 Risen wrote:On April 23 2012 07:13 ghost_403 wrote:On April 23 2012 05:33 Risen wrote: Honestly johnnywup is my biggest scumread atm Pac. I have no idea why he thinks forwarding another lynch candidate at the last second is a good idea, and it just shits up the thread. Do we take the case against him seriously? Do we try and organize everyone to swap their votes over to zeph even though no one else has mentioned zeph as a serious candidate thus far? We can't do that, we don't have the time.
I know I was against it before, but I don't see how marvel could be pushing a lynch on VE right now. We can't lynch our claimed JK. It's been stated in the thread but I'll state it again. You don't lynch a claimed doctor, and we shouldn't lynch the closest thing we have to a doctor. Is it possible VE is lying? Yup. He might be lying and be a vigi, or a tracker, or scum, or vanilla. Doesn't matter. The only shitty thing is that the person who is jailed doesn't know they were jailed, so I don't know how to confirm his claim.
Regardless, a vote on VE is stupid. It's just like everyone who voted for me when I claimed a guaranteed sane detective with a red check. Only an idiot would vote for said blue unless it was LYLO. It's applicable here. We can't lynch someone who claims such a powerful blue role right now. Is it a shitty claim? Yeah. I don't think it was smart, but we have to roll with it now that it's in the open. Any trackers watch him, I guess.
I'm voting marvel. Pre-EBWOP I just looked at the voting thread prior to hitting post. What the hell is going on? How can you lynch a claimed blue? This is so stupid. If need be I'll vote BM b/c I'm all for lynching someone who's being useless, but for now my vote is resting on marvel.
##vote marvellosity On April 23 2012 07:10 Risen wrote:On April 23 2012 07:07 PaqMan wrote:Risen your defense is full of shit and fails to explain your: - wishy-washyness,
- overreacting, overly-defensive attitude,
- sudden jump on the marv wagon, even though johnny is your biggest scumread
He is scum. Take note of the actions he's made so far and read through his entire filter, and you'll see how scummy this guy is. No one is going to pay attention to you. You're an idiot. WHAT WAGON DID I JUMP ON. I never even placed my vote on marv. Go look at the voting thread. derpderpderp, I'm hurrdurrPaq, I don't actually read anything, I just jump on Gonzaw's case, say I'm going to be away, but actually never leave when Risen comes to defend himself. Now go quote me int he voting thread. Oh wait, you can't, because I never actually voted for him. Durr, le hurr, hur hurr Risen I would like to thank you: at least you're not derping up the thread like at least 6 players are in this game. The fact that some of these players MUST be town and not scum is just apalling. oh hai your finally back from lunch. I assume you're going to go back to shitting up the thread with your half-assed claims? No, that's you, scum. I'm here to save the town from you and jubjubs.
-Blazinghand If you think I'm scum come at me bro. You have nothing to back up your sorry claims besides the fact that I believe Marv is town. Easy enough; we lynch Marv, he flips GF, it becomes clear you were directing vigis onto him to waste their shots, then we lynch you, and your scumteam is very mad at both you and Marv for being sub terrible people. Show nested quote +On April 23 2012 07:25 marvellosity wrote:On April 23 2012 07:24 BlazingJitsu wrote:On April 23 2012 07:22 marvellosity wrote:On April 23 2012 07:21 Blazinghand wrote:On April 23 2012 07:20 PaqMan wrote:On April 23 2012 07:16 BlazingJitsu wrote:On April 23 2012 07:14 Risen wrote:On April 23 2012 07:13 ghost_403 wrote:On April 23 2012 05:33 Risen wrote: Honestly johnnywup is my biggest scumread atm Pac. I have no idea why he thinks forwarding another lynch candidate at the last second is a good idea, and it just shits up the thread. Do we take the case against him seriously? Do we try and organize everyone to swap their votes over to zeph even though no one else has mentioned zeph as a serious candidate thus far? We can't do that, we don't have the time.
I know I was against it before, but I don't see how marvel could be pushing a lynch on VE right now. We can't lynch our claimed JK. It's been stated in the thread but I'll state it again. You don't lynch a claimed doctor, and we shouldn't lynch the closest thing we have to a doctor. Is it possible VE is lying? Yup. He might be lying and be a vigi, or a tracker, or scum, or vanilla. Doesn't matter. The only shitty thing is that the person who is jailed doesn't know they were jailed, so I don't know how to confirm his claim.
Regardless, a vote on VE is stupid. It's just like everyone who voted for me when I claimed a guaranteed sane detective with a red check. Only an idiot would vote for said blue unless it was LYLO. It's applicable here. We can't lynch someone who claims such a powerful blue role right now. Is it a shitty claim? Yeah. I don't think it was smart, but we have to roll with it now that it's in the open. Any trackers watch him, I guess.
I'm voting marvel. Pre-EBWOP I just looked at the voting thread prior to hitting post. What the hell is going on? How can you lynch a claimed blue? This is so stupid. If need be I'll vote BM b/c I'm all for lynching someone who's being useless, but for now my vote is resting on marvel.
##vote marvellosity On April 23 2012 07:10 Risen wrote: [quote]
No one is going to pay attention to you. You're an idiot. WHAT WAGON DID I JUMP ON. I never even placed my vote on marv. Go look at the voting thread. derpderpderp, I'm hurrdurrPaq, I don't actually read anything, I just jump on Gonzaw's case, say I'm going to be away, but actually never leave when Risen comes to defend himself. Now go quote me int he voting thread. Oh wait, you can't, because I never actually voted for him. Durr, le hurr, hur hurr Risen I would like to thank you: at least you're not derping up the thread like at least 6 players are in this game. The fact that some of these players MUST be town and not scum is just apalling. oh hai your finally back from lunch. I assume you're going to go back to shitting up the thread with your half-assed claims? No, that's you, scum. I'm here to save the town from you and jubjubs.
-Blazinghand I'm genuinely looking forward to throwing this in your face post-game. I'm genuinely looking forward to hanging your worthless scum ass in the next few hours.
-Blazinghand I thought it was only bad newbs who tunneled so much and used confirmation bias so heavily in their cases. Apparently I was quite wrong. Pros like myself will tunnel hard, develop a case, force mistakes, and be right and crush scum like yourself who deserve to be crushed like the flies you are. What's the matter? Worried bout getting lynched?
-Blazinghand
You just keep digging. No, I'm not worried. If I wasn't so competitive and actually wanted to win games as much as I do, I'd be down with a marv lynch just so I could laugh at you all the sooner.
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On April 23 2012 07:31 Risen wrote: Stop. Now. There's 4 people talking letting every other person just watch the thread burn. Scum can so easily just skate when stuff like this is going on.
Why aren't we all on BM? He's done NOTHING. Why are people on the only blue claim we have still? GET OFF VE
the VE who's not even bothering to play the game anymore you mean?
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Could you please update the OP with the deadline time, at the moment it still says TBD
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On April 23 2012 07:47 Risen wrote: Layabout. Please respond. Why are you still on VE? Anyone else still on VE, why are you still on VE?
terrible objection to gonzaw, terrible claim, terrible scumslip case on gonzaw, terribly timed claim in conjunction with gonzaw plan, and ragequitting. Since when is ragequitting a valid defence or pro-town play?
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On April 23 2012 07:59 BlazingJitsu wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2012 07:45 MidnightGladius wrote: BJ, you're flooding the thread with duplicate posts and making it really hard for me to follow the dialogue. Yes, TL may have put a flood control on your account, but instead of posting short individual replies on multiple accounts, could you consolidate your posts and address everything at once?
Also, with regards to your conviction: what would it take to convince you that you were wrong about marv? When I voted for him, it was because his posts were fluffy, and I told myself that if he started posting more substantially, then he would be less likely to be scum. From your perspective, his later posts reflected him playing to the standard you set for him. Instead of acquitting him, you used his behavior to further incriminate him. So I ask you this, and you don't have to answer in thread if you're afraid of WIFOM or whatever, but what would convince you that marv is town? If you're absolutely certain, and nothing could shift your beliefs, then remember that this is a game of incomplete information, and that you can't possibly be sure.
Personally, I think lynching marv would make a terrible mislynch at this point.
This is a fair point. I'll do my best to consolidate replies and posts and increase the legibility of this thread. I can get a bit out of hand at times. Regarding what could convince I was wrong about Marv: at this point, very little. If you take a look at Marv's development as a player, in the past few hours he's been posting like a regular guy, an acceptable contributor-- everything seems normal. if he had been posting like this all game, I wouldn't be on his ass like this. But at the beginning, at the time of my first case, he was super scummy-- posting several times and saying nothing. my initial case was to pressure him. He responded by trying to appear active, but still being worthless. i kept on pushing, and bit by bit he stepped up his game. Only with enormous pressure was I able to make him contribute. If he had become useful after my initial pressure, that would have been fine-- but his continued attempts to lurk were scummy. At this point, I am convinced Marv is scum and I will likely not be unconvinced unless something amazing happens. I will consider lynching someone else who is scum in an attempt to avoid mislynch, but voting Marv and getting him lynched is priority #1 for me.
Alrighty, I'm done being angry with you. I would love for you to consider scenario 2 though, which I did try to explain at some point:
I sadly have a social life, and my original one-liners were due to not having the required time to make a thorough analysis of what's at hand. Last night I was playing mafia and not socialising as much as I could have because actually I'd rather not get lynched for something so silly. Now the game has got rolling, I'm back home, I have more to comment on and say, and as you say, this is more 'normal'.
Long story short - I didn't have much time and posted a couple of one-liners (obviously i should have just posted nothing). Now I have more time I am posting more sensibly and it is more thought out.
It was not 'your pressure' that made me contribute, it's the fact that I spent time I previously did not to try to contribute.
Please consider this instead of just a dismissive wave of the hand where everything I do simply confirms the previous thing. Because that's just not good logical thinking.
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EBWOP: *spent time I previously did not have
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Gonna ask again, why is giving up a valid town defence?
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Okies, just gonna policy ignore BJ from now on
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