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On April 14 2012 19:59 Radfield wrote: and yes, if I die I assume it would change your opinion of me..... Mostly my opinion of you is because I think you bussed and of elimination your one of two candidates for 2nd scum.
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On April 14 2012 20:00 Blazinghand wrote:yes Hammer him gaiz
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On April 14 2012 19:59 Radfield wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2012 19:58 Bluelightz wrote:On April 14 2012 19:57 wherebugsgo wrote: like, no shit if he doesn't live it's not a bus....what the fuck? Generally I think your town somehow also based on this and based of elimination it's jwup or radfield Why do you think Bugs is town? Elimination and he's been active, and I don't think scum would lunge at me like that.
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On April 14 2012 19:59 wherebugsgo wrote: *bluelightz No, end of story I'm useless town? Okay?
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On April 14 2012 20:06 Radfield wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2012 20:00 Bluelightz wrote:On April 14 2012 19:59 Radfield wrote: and yes, if I die I assume it would change your opinion of me..... Mostly my opinion of you is because I think you bussed and of elimination your one of two candidates for 2nd scum. Just to be clear, you think this was a bus: + Show Spoiler +On April 14 2012 12:24 Radfield wrote:Ok, I think Blazinghand is the fake-claimer and I'm writing this now as I don't expect to live through the night. Let me tell you why. Lets first consider mafia motivations for this game. You KNOW that it's all about th cop, and counter-claiming the cop. If I rolled mafia, first thing I'm doing is discussing which of us is going to claim as the cop. Also consider this: mafia want to be the first out of the gate to claim cop, because whoever claims second generally looks like a pretty lame counter-claimer. So mafia will try to be johnny-on-the-spot and snipe the claim before the actual cop. Anything that gives you a measure of credibility is worth it, considering one has to assume this game will be decided on the slightest misstep. Hence mafia will be looking for an excuse to claim early. I'd like to talk first about why I think Blazinghand is scum, then I will talk about why I think Tunkeg is the actual Cop. Those two points are mostly exclusive. There are several reason I think Blazinghand is scum and first is his demeanor. First is his response to me on page 3: + Show Spoiler +On April 14 2012 08:46 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2012 08:13 Bluelightz wrote:On April 14 2012 07:17 Tunkeg wrote: So this have been churning in my mind all day:
COP CLAIM.
Now that we have doc protection on night 0, cop should claim and doc should heal him. Why do I think this is a great idea:
Pros: 1. We get a confirmed town or a counterclaim.
1. a. We got a confirmed town, which makes it easier for us to scumhunt. 1. b. We get a 1 for 1 trade with scum. Which isn't as great is pretty great considering there are only 2 scums in this game.
2. Scum will be shooting in to the 4 townies leftover (Doc must protect cop after claim obviously). They will then have a 1/4=25% chance to hit one of our important blue players, instead of a 2/5=40% chance of hitting one of our blue players.
3. As long as cop is alive we get a new confirmed town for every day or a scum. Cop should post his checks as vanilla town=town. Scum= scum. Doc= Checked doc will not reveal. On day one this narrows the field to either 2 confirmed town and 4 remaining players giving us a 50% chance to lynch scum (which should increase by reasoning). Or it gives us the first scum to lynch.
Cons.
1. Scum knows our Cop (obv).
2. Scum can lynch into any other town at night, securing guaranteed kill knowing doc is on cop. This also include picking of the ones Cop reveals as confirmed townies the night after they are reveales.
3. If Doc is killed or lynched we lose our Cop, and we will be in some real trouble.
So guys any thoughts on this? I am for a Cop claim. Tunkeg, its insta-lylo tommorow if mafia get an NK. That doesn't make his idea wrong though. Look, here's what's gonna happen D1: we'll be at lylo. Our cop needs to claim NOW, and get medic protection, and NOT call who he is checking. Scenario A (cop does not claim): We enter D1 and the mafia has possibly shot the cop. The cop can claim at this point and we have 2 confirmed town, or 1 confirmed town and 1 confirmed scum. If the cop got shot, though, we're flying blind. Scenario B (cop DOES claim): We enter D2 and the mafia cannot have shot the cop, because the medic protected him overnight. THE COP CANNOT HAVE BEEN SHOT, meaning we have 2 confirmed town, or 1 confirmed town and 1 confirmed scum. I think that even though it's gonna be LYLO tomorrow, the cop should claim, and the medic should just protect him. On April 14 2012 08:51 Radfield wrote: I want to discuss this Tunkeg, but NO ONE claim yet.
There are pro's and con's to each claiming + counter-claim, and not claiming at all. At the moment I'm leaning towards it being better to not claim. Keep in mind that barring a hero medic protect, we are in constant lylo no matter what.
I'm at work right now, but will be home in just over 2 hours. I would like to discuss this in depth.
After typing that, it's possible that claiming IS the best call because it forces a 50-50 lynch, which is decent. I'm not sure yet though, so hold off until we discuss.
Stick around for two hours(or 2.5) though and I'll be here. On April 14 2012 08:53 Blazinghand wrote: Ok.
Bear in mind that the night is pretty short (only 10 hours left). I'll be around for some time. The only reason I brought this up again was that an N0 claim could be more advantageous than a D1 claim-- mafia has no RB. His response to me is deferential and defensive. He gives an excuse for why he brought it up, when no excuse was needed. There was nothing even really wrong with his post, except for the fact that he completely leaves off mentioning a counter-claim scenario. How can you entertain the idea of a cop claiming but not notice the obvious counter-claim scenario. It's conspicuous in it's absence. Fact is, I wasn't even responding to BH, I was talking to Tunkeg, as you can see by my next post. Second is the contradiction between this: Show nested quote +On April 14 2012 09:31 Blazinghand wrote: I agree strongly. In this setup the cop will basically HAVE to claim D1 since we'll be at lylo, and claiming N0 is superior to claiming D1. Guaranteeing the cop surviving the night is worth it.
I am the cop. and this: Show nested quote +On April 14 2012 09:45 Blazinghand wrote:On April 14 2012 09:42 Tunkeg wrote: Yeah, this is indeed very fun now. Didn't think we would get a scum claim on cop first though :D See, this is what doesn't make sense to me. This game clearly is about the cop claim. It's even called "I'm the cop you idiot." Let me explain MY thought process up until my claim:
"whether or not I claim is important. I will discuss it with other players until it's clear what the optimal strategy is, then I will execute it immediately".I don't really understand what you were thinking, adding that big about claims to the discussion then bailin out hard. wouldn't a cop be more worried about the implications of his role? Wouldn't, a scum player, in fact, try to lay some groundwork for his claim but not want to? Which of us has played like he wants the town to win? Keep in mind that Blazinghand's claim came apprx 2 minutes after I posted my analysis of 'to claim or not to claim'. If his strategy was truly to 'discuss it with other players until it's clear what the optimal strategy is", he most certainly did NOT do that. What he did was leap at the first opportunity to claim cop that he had. There was basically no discussion of the pros and cons or potential merits of claiming or not. Just me stating that one was better than the other, when I had JUST posted that I was feeling muddled about the potential cost-benefit analysis and was asking for people's thoughts. Remember that mafia are looking for a reason to claim first, and my post is an easy excuse. In this post BH also states the the game is "clearly about the cop", yet in his initial post he completely fails to talk about counter-claims, which is bizarre. From there on out it's just a shoving match between Tunkeg and Blazinghand. The crux of my argument truly comes down to the contradiction. Blazinghand claims that his whole mindset was to discuss and wait for the optimal strategy, and then claim. However he waits only for my opinion, and then claims. But what if I am scum and being intentionally misleading!? BH gives no thought to that(because he knows i am town), but immediately claims in thread. I hold that the immediacy of that claim is due to not wanting to be the second claimer, because BH KNOWS there will be two claimants.
Tunkeg on the other hand, I have a fairly town read on. First his opening post shows he cares about and has thought about the game. It includes things such as medic save percentages, which is something that isn't an obvious pro/con at first glance. His post also reads like a cop just begging for someone to say "Hey Cop! TIme to claim!". He then follows it up with trying to encourage discussion, which doesn't happen. Second, Tunkeg claims he first sent in a check on Blazinghand, and then changed once the CC happened. He follows up by saying: Show nested quote + Why did I pick you for my first nightaction check - Well I consider Radfield and WBG the best players in the game. I assume scum kills one of them if both aren't scum, and I therefor chose the one I consider third, which is you.
This is actually pretty good logic, and shows that either he has been thinking about his check, or is just really good at making shit up on the fly. Lets compare and contrast BH and Tunkeg's claim-posts: Show nested quote +On April 14 2012 09:31 Blazinghand wrote: I agree strongly. In this setup the cop will basically HAVE to claim D1 since we'll be at lylo, and claiming N0 is superior to claiming D1. Guaranteeing the cop surviving the night is worth it.
I am the cop. Show nested quote +On April 14 2012 09:36 Tunkeg wrote:On April 14 2012 09:31 Blazinghand wrote: I agree strongly. In this setup the cop will basically HAVE to claim D1 since we'll be at lylo, and claiming N0 is superior to claiming D1. Guaranteeing the cop surviving the night is worth it.
I am the cop. Lie, I didnt go to bed, I am the real cop! There you have it! One is well structured, with blue font and a couple well reasoned sentanced. The other is slapdash and spontaneous. Speaking as a player who has played as scum before, I would NEVER make a post like Tunkegs as a fake counter claim. My post would look exactly like BH's. Safe, Neutral and most important: First. Show nested quote +On April 14 2012 09:38 Blazinghand wrote:On April 14 2012 09:36 Tunkeg wrote:On April 14 2012 09:31 Blazinghand wrote: I agree strongly. In this setup the cop will basically HAVE to claim D1 since we'll be at lylo, and claiming N0 is superior to claiming D1. Guaranteeing the cop surviving the night is worth it.
I am the cop. Lie, I didnt go to bed, I am the real cop! There you have it! Well, that was quick. So you went to bed, but you were actually here watching the thread so you could counter claim the cop, huh. I know you're scum. BH accuses Tunkeg of being scummy for not going to bed, and returning to the thread. However this is the exact opposite of typical scum play. When you say you're going to bed as scum, you go to bed. It's when you say you are going to write an analysis or something is when you actually don't follow through. Town players are constantly drawn back to the thread, while mafia players are constantly looking for reasons to leave it(usually). Look at my posting this game, I stated I was going to wait until I got home, but then just kept posting from work at the expense of my work(hint: it's because I am town). Look at the demeanor of each player. Tunkeg seems relaxed and come-what-may. BH seems wound tightly and defensive. I'd like to write more, but frankly I'm tired. Here's hoping the medic sees me along to Day 1 (I doubt it though! ).
Additionally(upon refreshing the page) I think the rolecop thing is likely a red herring. The OP states this: "Cops can investigate someone's alignment every night". Which means that no, Tunkeg will not be able to get back 'medic' as a result(which I had thought). However, I think one would only know that if you read the OP carefully because.... It doesn't actually say anything in the cop PM! Blazinghand states this: Show nested quote +On April 14 2012 11:08 Blazinghand wrote:On April 14 2012 09:46 Tunkeg wrote: Yeah, BH you will just post town on anyone you have claimed to check tomorrow. I on the other hand will post town, scum or doc even. That's interesting, because my checks only return as town or scum... And he states it as if that information is written into his role PM and not just publicly available. As we know, the role PMs only state this: "Welcome to Idiot Mafia. You are a Cop/Vanilla Town/Doctor/Mafia Goon". So it's perfectly understandable that Tunkeg could mistake how his role works, particularly with me stating the same thing(and him only agreeing with me). Again, I think it more likely that a scum player will be meticulous about the fine detail of the fake claim, and not unlikely that the actual cop might miss that blurb. I'd give about 70-75% chance right now that BH is scum. You realize that ludicrous right? The reason scum shot Tunkeg is because BH was outted, mainly by my spearheading. At that point no one was calling BH scum, and there was in fact gas on the Tunkeg fire because of his rolecop thing. Once BH was out in the open it only made sense for mafia to shoot Tunkeg. Yes, BH was obviously bussed, and that makes posts like this more legitamate: Show nested quote +On April 14 2012 18:12 johnnywup wrote: Ikinda see your points, from both tunkeg and dirkzor. i'll read more into cop vs cop in the morning but asof right now they both look evenly scummy/towny, in myopinion. reading the argument from dirkzor, i agree its kinda weird how BH was like "Cop needs to claim NOW" even though he thought claiming cop was best and he was "cop". i dontthink a cop would post that, they would just claim right away. Onthe other hand, tunkegs resistance to claiming n0 even though its clearly the best move for town is also relatively scummy in my opinion. I can'tsay for certain who's lying at this point, will re-assess the situation when i wake up. and posts like this fairly scummy: Show nested quote +On April 14 2012 18:34 wherebugsgo wrote:I think BH is far more likely to be scum than tunkeg right now. That's just by feel mostly, but in particular the fact that BH said this: That doesn't make his idea wrong though. Look, here's what's gonna happen D1: we'll be at lylo. Our cop needs to claim NOW, and get medic protection, and NOT call who he is checking.
Saying "so he can get medic protection" means he probably didn't think very hard (not something the actual cop would do) because he overlooked the counterclaim. Sure, if no one CCs the cop he automatically gets free protection but what scumteam would let that happen? Also, he said the cop needs to claim now, but if he was actually the cop he would've claimed right away if he had that mindset to begin with. It's what I would do Your saying bugs is scum? Also, let's drop this... I'm gonna regret this if our scum but I think your town now, well you convinced me.....
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Like other people including u have not called me useless.....
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IMO dirk is town, he uses logic for his reasons on stuff, him being drunk lol,etc.
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On April 14 2012 20:21 wherebugsgo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2012 20:20 Bluelightz wrote: IMO dirk is town, he uses logic for his reasons on stuff, him being drunk lol,etc. that's not an answer to the question "who is the second scum" I answered radfield.
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Ebwop: radfields question
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Wbg, Either you or radfield is scum, jwup is town because of the reasons in the next paragraph.
Jwup is town because in my mind scum won't go this far on a person or as far as voting said person.
Im open to change though
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On April 14 2012 20:13 Radfield wrote:Also, let me reiterate. KIlling Tunkeg is actually a BAD move, unless the mafia cop-candidate is already in a bad position relative to the real cop. If you still have 50/50 than it makes sense to leave the cop and fight it out, because the medic has a good chance at a hero save N1. Show nested quote +On April 14 2012 20:04 wherebugsgo wrote: man if only johnny were here
sucks the time zones are so far apart I'm less interested in Johnny and more in Dirkzor. What are your thoughts Dirkzor?
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On April 14 2012 20:32 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2012 20:26 Blazinghand wrote:On April 14 2012 18:28 Tunkeg wrote: I love you, BH. I truly do. Thanks man, I love you too. This is the poster for a movie I'm self-publishing about us. Tunkeg x Blazinghand: Bro Love Act I Scene III JAKARTA- Mall Exterior. Overhead shot of Tunkeg and Blazinghand walking along the sidewalk. Blazinghand is talking animatedly with Tunkeg. Tunkeg is holding his cell phone.Camera pans over to PALMAR, who pushes his way through the crowd, following the two sexy mafia lovers. Cut to shot of left hand in pocket. Cut to shot of PALMAR's face-- a dark grimace, with teeth clenched.
Fade to wide shot: the busy subway stop. 2 rail lines pass through the center of this station, with platforms on either side. Large electronic billboards on either wall.
Tunkeg and Blazinghand are standing close to the rails, talking animatedly. PALMAR comes down the stairs and spots them.
Close-up of PALMAR pushing through the crowd. A woman's voice intones that the train has arrived, first in Indonesian, then in English.
Split-screen shot of PALMAR breaking through the crowd as Tunkeg and Blazinghand enter the train and sit. PALMAR slips through the safety barrier just before it closes, entering two traincars behind.
Cut to JAKARTA EXTERIOR -- wide shot Tunkeg and Blazinghand exiting train, with PALMAR following them. Pan to Tunkeg.Tunkeg I dunno, I think I should call her now, while she's still thinking about it. Blazinghand Trust me, younger lover-- if you do that she won't want to talk to you. Tunkeg She gave me her number! Blazinghand Look, it's only going to annoy her if you call her now. Let her think about you a little. You can't seem desperate, or she won't want to talk to you. Tunkeg I know that, but-- oh, here's a shortcut. We don't want to go around the block. The lovers turn down a narrow alley that cuts through the city block. PALMAR turns the corner behind them, a dark figure silhouetted against the bright surroundings of the city street behind them.
As they walk down the alley, Blazinghand grabs Tunkeg's phone from his outstretched hand.Blazinghand You're not allowed to use this for the rest of the day, you're probably texting her right now! Tunkeg, laughing Hey! Give that back! They struggle with the phone, and finally Tunkeg wrests it free. He looks up and sees PALMAR approaching.Tunkeg What- Close-up as PALMAR leaps forward, elbowing Tunkeg in the gut. Tunkeg doubles over, coughing. PALMAR follows it up by grabbing Tunkeg's head and kneeing it. Tunkeg grunts and falls to the ground. His cell phone clatters to the ground.
Ground-level close-up of cell phone screen. TO: 555-8364 MSG: I'm glad you enjoyed it, too. How does Saturday sound?
The phone cracks under PALMAR's shoe as he steps back.
Pan up to PALMAR blocking a punch from Blazinghand. The older man's finely-tuned physique is an awe-inspiring sight in hand-to-hand combat.
Blazinghand steps forward as PALMAR recovers, grabs him by the torso and takes him to the mat, pinning him easily.Blazinghand What's the meaning of this? PALMAR, gasping You violated the agreement, and you will be punished like anyone else. Nobody is above it, not even one of you. You know what happened with Bill Murray. Blazinghand You can't come against me. Not you, not the president, not ANYONE. I'm the greatest brood war player alive, and the council exists only by my hand! So I make it, so I can unmake it. PALMAR, smirking There will be more after me. The others aren't like you-- they have no limits. They'll break your shoulder, your hand if they have to. More will come. Nobody is above the rules, not even you. Blazinghand, snarling I wrote those rules. If more of you will come, then let them come. Tell your chairman that this is a warning: next council meeting I'm retaking the chairmanship, there's nothing he can do to stop me. Blazinghand lifts PALMAR and dumps him into the trash can, headfirst. He closes the lid.
Blazinghand grabs Tunkeg's phone and grabs Tunkeg, lifting him over his shoulders. Sweat trickles down Blazinghand's firm, supple muscles as he carries his groggy teammate out of the alley.Blazinghand reaches the other end of the alley. Tunkeg stirs, and Blazinghand sets him on his feet. Blazinghand's face shows deep concern for his teammate,Blazinghand, whispering to the semiconscious Tunkeg You're bleeding... we've got to get you cleaned up and fully-awake before D3 or you're gonna lose all your cases. Come on, man, hang in there... Wide shot-- with Tunkeg's arm around his shoulders, Blazinghand presses on into the bright JAKARTA day. The silhouettes fade into the sunlit background. Fade to white. Jakarta?
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I said its either you/wbg and I said you were more townie in the post where I said it, I'm on the road posting from the phone so don't expect me to respond rly fast. Here I'm telling this again: I'm town and I'm not sure your town aswell. Scum hurry up wif your nk plz.
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On April 16 2012 15:07 Dirkzor wrote: Now Radfield, care to share some of your reads? So far you haven't really beside the tunkeg/BH situation n0.
Who do you think is the last scum?
BL, any thoughts?
Im thinking that Its either Radfield/You, Leaning on Radfield but I think we should no-lynch today, it will make my mind much-much better with 1 more guy out of the equation.
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On April 16 2012 21:48 Dirkzor wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2012 19:45 Bluelightz wrote:On April 16 2012 15:07 Dirkzor wrote: Now Radfield, care to share some of your reads? So far you haven't really beside the tunkeg/BH situation n0.
Who do you think is the last scum?
BL, any thoughts? Im thinking that Its either Radfield/You, Leaning on Radfield but I think we should no-lynch today, it will make my mind much-much better with 1 more guy out of the equation. Why me and Radfield now? Is Johnny town?
johnny is town because IMO scum wouldnt go that far on Tunkeg like johnny did
Its either you or Radfield because out of elimanation you and radfield are left out as the most not sure town reads, I'm still leaning on Radfield but depending on tonight's NK im maybe going to change.
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Here for the night actions:
I WILL NOT DIE, EVER.
Scum will never kill me period. I'm a liability and an easy mislynch for scum.
Therefore I singled out my most confident town read(jwup) , There's how I got you/radfield.
IMO, you are town for example because of for example this pressure on me.
That's why I'm leaning on Radfield.
I said my reads can change because:
-Medic can Claim -Rad/you might die.
If johnny dies: This, I am not sure, I guess by this case if johnny dies and doesnt flip medic we can find the final scum ez.But if he does, I'm not gonna be sure anymore, but IF that really happens, I'm going to go with my most confident scum read: Radfield.
Lastly, I am town, don't deny it, Wondered why I havent died? I'm town and I'm an easy mislynch, Dirk in all the games you played with me have you not learned? Why I always live to LYLO?
Am I town? Would scum stress this topic this much?
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Before I go:
##Vote: No-Lynch
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Okay Dirkzor is the last scum GG
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Guys can I finally win the most called awful award now?
also:
On April 13 2012 18:31 Palmar wrote:
Cop Tunkeg Doctor Johnnywup Vanilla Town Radfield Vanilla Town Wherebugsgo Vanilla Town Bluelightz Mafia Goon Blazinghand Mafia Goon Dirkzor
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