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i am waiting on the mods to tell me if i can
speaking of which i just noticed this in Kurumi's profile
Insta-vigilante list: appruds layabout You Numbers are awesome and make breadcrumbing ezpz I am insane and Polish,that doesn't go very well. 13 2 6 3 2 2 13 i feel like i have won an award
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Acro what is it about the plan that you disagree with?
Apparently we are short on time, and from the sound of it pushing him should help to "2 scum" and at worse it practically hands us 1 scum
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ACE! please don't smite me ##push Cephiro
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+ Show Spoiler +On April 05 2012 06:00 Snarfs wrote:Awful lot of resistance to pulling Bluelightz off the edge and still no good reasons not to. He's lied about his role (twice) saying that the positions would be publically announced: Show nested quote +Just clarifying my role but I DO NOT KNOW WHICH SPOT IS BOOBY TRAPPED OUT OF THE 3 BUT I KNOW 1 OF THE SPOTS THAT WILL BE PUBLICLY ANNOUNCED IS SAFE. Show nested quote +3 RANDOMIZED POSITIONS IN THE QUEUE WILL BE ANNOUNCED PUBLICLY THE NEXT DAY, BUT ONLY 1 IS BOOBY TRAPPED. He used his role which at least two people warned that doing so would get him lynched. He claimed multiple times that he's specifically blue (not PR, not town aligned, not a good toy, but blue) when there are probably no literally blue roles in the game. Show nested quote +Fuck this, you guys see my name? Yeah I am.( For those of you who don't understand I am bluelightz. He's used his PoPs on people who had no chance of being lynched (or just didn't use them at all). Show nested quote +So, my vote(push) will go to dirkzor because he only has picked on the easy target(sup me).
##push: Dirkzor
Die scum. (No pull the first day). And that's all he's done. Now can we at least kill one scum, please? Snarfs how is bluelightz lying? Everything he said lines up with the daypost. Trying to lynch a player for claiming blue in a game in which there are no vanillas, because his blue role will flip green is silly.
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On April 05 2012 07:22 Snarfs wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2012 07:13 layabout wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On April 05 2012 06:00 Snarfs wrote:Awful lot of resistance to pulling Bluelightz off the edge and still no good reasons not to. He's lied about his role (twice) saying that the positions would be publically announced: Show nested quote +Just clarifying my role but I DO NOT KNOW WHICH SPOT IS BOOBY TRAPPED OUT OF THE 3 BUT I KNOW 1 OF THE SPOTS THAT WILL BE PUBLICLY ANNOUNCED IS SAFE. Show nested quote +3 RANDOMIZED POSITIONS IN THE QUEUE WILL BE ANNOUNCED PUBLICLY THE NEXT DAY, BUT ONLY 1 IS BOOBY TRAPPED. He used his role which at least two people warned that doing so would get him lynched. He claimed multiple times that he's specifically blue (not PR, not town aligned, not a good toy, but blue) when there are probably no literally blue roles in the game. Show nested quote +Fuck this, you guys see my name? Yeah I am.( For those of you who don't understand I am bluelightz. He's used his PoPs on people who had no chance of being lynched (or just didn't use them at all). Show nested quote +So, my vote(push) will go to dirkzor because he only has picked on the easy target(sup me).
##push: Dirkzor
Die scum. (No pull the first day). And that's all he's done. Now can we at least kill one scum, please? Snarfs how is bluelightz lying? Everything he said lines up with the daypost. Trying to lynch a player for claiming blue in a game in which there are no vanillas, because his blue role will flip green is silly. He said that the positions of the traps would be revealed in the day post. Granted that's probably something that Bluelightz would misread. Who do you think is scum besides syllo? Bluelightz, prplhz, maybe mattchew.
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On April 05 2012 07:28 wherebugsgo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2012 00:40 Bluelightz wrote: Also, I seem to have misunderstood my role PM, so, 1 of 3 positions that will. Be announced with the day post will be booby trapped, the positions are randomized. The lie is here. I see no reason for anyone as town to ever use this role. If I got this role myself I would not use it unless I was scum. As scum sometimes it's easier to claim your actual role instead of faking it under pressure, which could potentially explain why he would claim it as scum. Who knows at any rate; Bluelightz has long enough played against a town wincon this game that he should die. At this point I have no clue why layabout or wiggles are defending bluelightz, but the change of heart in layabout particularly intrigues me. Because i honestly believe that Bluelightz might do this as town. I am concerned that some people are PoPing him because his actions are terrible not because they think he is scum. After yesterday it should be clear how important discussion and planning are. I am concerned that Bluelightz received so many PoP's in a short amount of time before there had been time for a proper discussion. It seems like you had all decided what to do before i even opened the thread and before Bluelightz could defend himself.
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On April 05 2012 08:21 Cephiro wrote:While waiting for the PoP count, I'd like to remind town of my top-5 scumreads: syllogism, prplhz, Acrofales, cascades, Mattchew. I am not saying these are absolutely right, but these are people that you should definitely look into more closely. Show nested quote +On April 03 2012 05:49 Acrofales wrote: Hey VE, I'll help get Palmar out of there, but it has to happen in the next hour or so, because then I'm going to bed. I wish my ability could be used during the day: I have an easier way to get him out, but it can only be used at night :S Just noticed that in his filter. Anyone else curious? sounds like he was trying to bait a night hit or roleblock /wifom
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On April 05 2012 08:29 Cephiro wrote: Oh also, I just realized I have not used my own PoPs yet, would you like me to pull Bluelightz? As he is the one that has currently been mostly pulled, and I am fine with "lynching" him, as if I was to change one person in my top-5 scumlist, I'd switch Acro for blue. We aren't even halfway through the day yet. You might as well wait and see what he has to say for himself.
I think you need to take another look at Acrofales. What do you think his intentions are when he is posting? Is his "flip-flopping" scummy?
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##pull Bluelightz ##push Mattchew
Attention thread! I can predict the future with complete and totally ambiguous levels of accuracy!
On April 04 2012 06:53 layabout wrote: i would like to hear you thoughts, if not now then i will have to wait another 18 hours by then something stupid and distracting will probably have happened i also have to sleep
If you would like to make use of my services i would like you to type /sellmysouldtolayabout in the thread. I am prepared to exchange 1 prediction about the FUTURE for the use of one of your PoPs that, if left to your own devices you would likely squander anyway!!!
That is all.
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On April 06 2012 02:16 Nemesis wrote: MrWiggles, why do you keep speculating on who shot sbrubbles? That leads town nowhere and just derails the discussion. Why don't you discuss something useful instead like who do you think is scum? This question only serves to continue to derail discussion
Why hasn't a mod posted that syllogism has been pushed off the conveyor belt? Don't tell me you have all decided to just leave him and hope.
If somebody were to push syllogism i could offer them a reward....
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On April 06 2012 02:29 Mattchew wrote: ##push syllogism
because there is nothing scummy about cephiro. You all seem to believe that 1 of the two HAVE to be scum. I'll take responsibility for calling him scummier of the 2.
..."You shall vote for town aligned players many times!"
Could you please explain why you were suspicious of Tobon?
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People with pulls left:
Mr.Wiggles risk.nuke Dirkzor Mattchew Cephiro (you can still pop right?) Tobon syllogism Acrofales
Pull Blueligtz off please. The only reason to keep him alive would be that he would willingly be this unhelpful and anti-town as town. That is a crappy reason for letting a player live. He even challenged us to kill him: + Show Spoiler +On April 05 2012 22:44 Bluelightz wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2012 22:29 Acrofales wrote:On April 05 2012 22:15 Bluelightz wrote: The usage of my power *gasp* I can only say to use or not to use.
For tonight just for everyone im flipping a coin if im going to use my power or not. Lol. I hope you're dead before tonight. Why did you want your role confirmed instead of some "random bullshit claim"? What purpose does it have to confirm your role? Why are you obsessed with roleclaiming at all? What purpose does it serve? Then I become the punching bag of the next day because I didnt do ANYTHING townie in d1 and discussions like this could be avoided if you simply just believe that this is what ive got and scum would probably never kill me. If this keeps on persisting, just kill me. Scum will never kill me because im always distracting town, suck it, I bet that you think that losing one PoP is worth it for not having to think of a scummy bastard like me that will be forever useless anymore.So, just lynch me whatever, i dont care about me dieing anymore everyone refuses to believe anything I say, claim whatever. I guess I will use my push on syllo, atleast I can help some way before I die and flip town.
Im obssesd with role claiming because you guys keep on being "oh randomly placed bombs in the queue are scummy as fuck and therefore bluelightz is auto-scum" here is what I say it is not me that keeps on bringing this up its YOU. YOU, keep on bringing this up "" oh bluelightz's role"Oh his role is so scummy" ##Push: syllogism
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Before you make up your mind on Bluelightz i would like each of you (that have a pull left) to read through this exchange between WBG and WIggles and share their thoughts. + Show Spoiler +On April 05 2012 07:21 wherebugsgo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2012 06:34 Mr. Wiggles wrote:On April 05 2012 01:11 wherebugsgo wrote: I'm at a cafe on my phone having breakfast (weird for me actually) but this is oddly relaxing.
Wait wtf Wiggles is suddenly against lynching Bluelightz?
What's with the meek response Wiggles? Why do you not want to see him flip immediately? You claim we should use our PoPs on other people but don't even offer one to begin with. The hell?
Bluelightz I really don't see how you could be town. If you actually are town you must be deficient of about 3/4 of the brain cells everyone else possesses, for reasons already mentioned several times (I.e. The position 24 bull) Why do you want to see him die immediately, especially since apparently the OP says that flips don't show up until the end of the day? When I saw that the queue was hidden today, I changed my mind a bit about Bluelightz. It doesn't make sense for him to claim his role, if he had foreknowledge that the queue would be hidden the next day. Not claiming his role, would have let him use his power and blow up potentially four townies, without us knowing anything about it, especially if scum can see the queue. If scum can't see the queue as well, then they wouldn't have used his power in the first place, since they can blow up from it themselves. At this point, we're limited in lynching by the number of pushes/pulls we have to pull people to the ends. This is especially exacerbated when we have people wanting to go for the item each day. This makes it so we have even less pushes and pulls to actually kill scum. So, in my mind, I'm willing to take the risk of leaving bluelightz alive today. If he lies about his bombs, we kill him instantly. If he's telling the truth, then we can get him to use his power again, and that will free up a lot of our pushes and pulls for other uses, like the items, or just killing a couple more people, since we can pull targets to the two bombed spots if they're close instead of all the way to the end of the queue. This would be for people who are not priority flips, but who we think are scummy enough to die. WBG, can you give me some concrete reasons for needing to flip bluelightz as soon as possible? So far you've just been running under your initial reason of him running away when pressured, but I haven't really seen much else since then, besides you calling him scum. On April 04 2012 23:09 Acrofales wrote:On April 04 2012 22:59 Mr. Wiggles wrote: Has anybody claimed the kill on Palmar or Shrubbles yet? This is important to me. If you shot one of Palmar/Shrubbles, and haven't claimed yet, please do so. I won't be mad. I promise. Hi guys, I'm mafia fishing for a vigilante so I can shoot him tonight, but I won't be mad. I promise!!! Don't be silly. Firstly, most vigilantes are one-shot. Secondly, if this one isn't, we don't know that, so he could just claim one shot. So, why would I fish for what's essentially a VT now? Next, they need to claim their shot, or else I'm just going off the assumption that it was a scum kill, which changes how this played out.
Shrubbles being shot by a vig makes sense, but him being shot by scum has some interesting implications. If we assume that there was a scum between Ceph, Syllo, and Shrubbles, then why would scum shoot Shrubbles? He was considered most suspicious after Syllo among the three, so if Syllo was the scum, then you're only hastening his death. If Ceph is the scum, then you ensure that Syllo will flip, though it lets us know that Ceph is the scum quicker as well. If there's no scum among the three, mafia know this, and shooting Shrubbles makes sure that we most likely lynch Syllo, and if he flips town, Ceph. Basically, it sends us on a wild goose chase.
Can anyone answer why scum would shoot shrubbles when there's basically a list check that you're shortening by killing him? The only reasons I can think of, are that we're looking at the wrong person (syllo), or there isn't really a scum between the three of them. This is especially true considering the check doesn't confirm people as town, so lynching a scum out of them does nothing to clear the other ones, so it's not like scum had to worry about DT-checked townies or something like that.
That no one actually questioned the kills is concerning. key points: Bluelightz's only defense of himself was "I'm town and this is a bad idea." Bluelightz has not attempted to find scum and he has not attempted to even play this game. I see no reason to leave him alive. The Bluelightz pulls have been coming in incredibly slowly and there has been resistance to it despite several players displaying stronger convictions earlier in the game. Players additionally keep moving to other subjects. I want to have him killed sooner than later because it will allow us to consolidate our pulls on someone else afterward; either in case of an emergency, or to kill someone (such as syllo or Tobon) because Cephiro fails or something like that. As for whether scum shot sbrubbles or not, sure, it's possible. If scum shot sbrubbles then there's a strong chance risk is the scum and not either of syllo or Cephiro. How do we find out though? We can't really, unless we kill one of them. We have no idea whether scum shot Sbrubbles or Sbrubbles died for other reasons. Maybe scum shot Sbrubbles and a town vig shot Palmar! Sure, it's less likely, but its still possible, right? See how fruitless these types of discussions are? Sbrubbles could have tried to protect Palmar and then could've died like that. Let's find out if that's possible! If a medic targets the mirror toy, will it result in the medic's death?Lastly, why are you concerned that no one speculated about the night kills when we already considered the possibilities you brought up? You aren't the first to attempt to address those concerns, and certainly you don't advance the discussion by acting as if we're in a dire situation of sorts because we aren't considering all the possibilities. Trying to speculate why Bluelightz would claim his role as scum or town is as equally fruitless as trying to figure out who shot whom last night. I can think of a great reason that doesn't depend on his alignment, and that's that Bluelightz is stupid.
I am not sure if i understand this:
If he's telling the truth, then we can get him to use his power again, and that will free up a lot of our pushes and pulls for other uses, like the items, or just killing a couple more people, since we can pull targets to the two bombed spots if they're close instead of all the way to the end of the queue. This would be for people who are not priority flips, but who we think are scummy enough to die. Wiggles, since only one of the spots is tapped why would we use Bluelightz abilty to kill somebody, when there is only a 50/50 chance of it working for us?
Surely we would still have to use multiple PoP's anyway to move players we don't wish to kill off of the spots and the player we do wish to kill onto them. Why would we want to introduce additional uncertainty, for minimal gain? (less PoPs used)
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On April 06 2012 04:51 layabout wrote:Before you make up your mind on Bluelightz i would like each of you (that have a pull left) to read through this exchange between WBG and WIggles and share their thoughts. + Show Spoiler +On April 05 2012 07:21 wherebugsgo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2012 06:34 Mr. Wiggles wrote:On April 05 2012 01:11 wherebugsgo wrote: I'm at a cafe on my phone having breakfast (weird for me actually) but this is oddly relaxing.
Wait wtf Wiggles is suddenly against lynching Bluelightz?
What's with the meek response Wiggles? Why do you not want to see him flip immediately? You claim we should use our PoPs on other people but don't even offer one to begin with. The hell?
Bluelightz I really don't see how you could be town. If you actually are town you must be deficient of about 3/4 of the brain cells everyone else possesses, for reasons already mentioned several times (I.e. The position 24 bull) Why do you want to see him die immediately, especially since apparently the OP says that flips don't show up until the end of the day? When I saw that the queue was hidden today, I changed my mind a bit about Bluelightz. It doesn't make sense for him to claim his role, if he had foreknowledge that the queue would be hidden the next day. Not claiming his role, would have let him use his power and blow up potentially four townies, without us knowing anything about it, especially if scum can see the queue. If scum can't see the queue as well, then they wouldn't have used his power in the first place, since they can blow up from it themselves. At this point, we're limited in lynching by the number of pushes/pulls we have to pull people to the ends. This is especially exacerbated when we have people wanting to go for the item each day. This makes it so we have even less pushes and pulls to actually kill scum. So, in my mind, I'm willing to take the risk of leaving bluelightz alive today. If he lies about his bombs, we kill him instantly. If he's telling the truth, then we can get him to use his power again, and that will free up a lot of our pushes and pulls for other uses, like the items, or just killing a couple more people, since we can pull targets to the two bombed spots if they're close instead of all the way to the end of the queue. This would be for people who are not priority flips, but who we think are scummy enough to die. WBG, can you give me some concrete reasons for needing to flip bluelightz as soon as possible? So far you've just been running under your initial reason of him running away when pressured, but I haven't really seen much else since then, besides you calling him scum. On April 04 2012 23:09 Acrofales wrote:On April 04 2012 22:59 Mr. Wiggles wrote: Has anybody claimed the kill on Palmar or Shrubbles yet? This is important to me. If you shot one of Palmar/Shrubbles, and haven't claimed yet, please do so. I won't be mad. I promise. Hi guys, I'm mafia fishing for a vigilante so I can shoot him tonight, but I won't be mad. I promise!!! Don't be silly. Firstly, most vigilantes are one-shot. Secondly, if this one isn't, we don't know that, so he could just claim one shot. So, why would I fish for what's essentially a VT now? Next, they need to claim their shot, or else I'm just going off the assumption that it was a scum kill, which changes how this played out.
Shrubbles being shot by a vig makes sense, but him being shot by scum has some interesting implications. If we assume that there was a scum between Ceph, Syllo, and Shrubbles, then why would scum shoot Shrubbles? He was considered most suspicious after Syllo among the three, so if Syllo was the scum, then you're only hastening his death. If Ceph is the scum, then you ensure that Syllo will flip, though it lets us know that Ceph is the scum quicker as well. If there's no scum among the three, mafia know this, and shooting Shrubbles makes sure that we most likely lynch Syllo, and if he flips town, Ceph. Basically, it sends us on a wild goose chase.
Can anyone answer why scum would shoot shrubbles when there's basically a list check that you're shortening by killing him? The only reasons I can think of, are that we're looking at the wrong person (syllo), or there isn't really a scum between the three of them. This is especially true considering the check doesn't confirm people as town, so lynching a scum out of them does nothing to clear the other ones, so it's not like scum had to worry about DT-checked townies or something like that.
That no one actually questioned the kills is concerning. key points: Bluelightz's only defense of himself was "I'm town and this is a bad idea." Bluelightz has not attempted to find scum and he has not attempted to even play this game. I see no reason to leave him alive. The Bluelightz pulls have been coming in incredibly slowly and there has been resistance to it despite several players displaying stronger convictions earlier in the game. Players additionally keep moving to other subjects. I want to have him killed sooner than later because it will allow us to consolidate our pulls on someone else afterward; either in case of an emergency, or to kill someone (such as syllo or Tobon) because Cephiro fails or something like that. As for whether scum shot sbrubbles or not, sure, it's possible. If scum shot sbrubbles then there's a strong chance risk is the scum and not either of syllo or Cephiro. How do we find out though? We can't really, unless we kill one of them. We have no idea whether scum shot Sbrubbles or Sbrubbles died for other reasons. Maybe scum shot Sbrubbles and a town vig shot Palmar! Sure, it's less likely, but its still possible, right? See how fruitless these types of discussions are? Sbrubbles could have tried to protect Palmar and then could've died like that. Let's find out if that's possible! If a medic targets the mirror toy, will it result in the medic's death?Lastly, why are you concerned that no one speculated about the night kills when we already considered the possibilities you brought up? You aren't the first to attempt to address those concerns, and certainly you don't advance the discussion by acting as if we're in a dire situation of sorts because we aren't considering all the possibilities. Trying to speculate why Bluelightz would claim his role as scum or town is as equally fruitless as trying to figure out who shot whom last night. I can think of a great reason that doesn't depend on his alignment, and that's that Bluelightz is stupid. I am not sure if i understand this: Show nested quote +If he's telling the truth, then we can get him to use his power again, and that will free up a lot of our pushes and pulls for other uses, like the items, or just killing a couple more people, since we can pull targets to the two bombed spots if they're close instead of all the way to the end of the queue. This would be for people who are not priority flips, but who we think are scummy enough to die. Wiggles, since only one of the spots is tapped why would we use Bluelightz abilty to kill somebody, when there is only a 50/50 chance of it working for us? Surely we would still have to use multiple PoP's anyway to move players we don't wish to kill off of the spots and the player we do wish to kill onto them. Why would we want to introduce additional uncertainty, for minimal gain? (less PoPs used)
On April 06 2012 05:10 Nemesis wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2012 04:20 Acrofales wrote: We can treat our last kill just like a regular lynch and then everybody pulls the top target. It still has to happen before people start going to bed, so ##vote fast.
So far I have
Mattchew: Acrofales Bluelightz: Layabout (counting your post as a vote) ##Vote: BluelightzHe is playing extremely similar to his scum games. We can worry about the others later, but bluelightz should die today. Thoughts please. Do we need to kill him now? Care to offer some Pro/Cons of leaving him alive today?
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On April 06 2012 05:20 cascades wrote: If you guys don't read my posts just tell me and I will stop bothering. Not once have Ceph nor Tobon addressed my claims or my defence. They just dodge and keep yelling "scum" over and over. That shit isn't going to stop me from pressing them on how that plan failed so bad. Let's pretend that there is no chance of either of them being lynched by town today.
What do you think we should do now, with our remaining PoP's?
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Cephiro this nonsense about cascades need to stop. If you think he is scum then please stop arguing with him.
Consolidate your points and present them in a case.
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On April 06 2012 05:40 Acrofales wrote: @layabout: you're going to have to be a bit clearer about what you mean. If bluelightz fucks us over by not saying where the bombs are next time, we're screwed, aren't we (assuming he's even town and telling the truth this time around).
As it stands, I think bluelightz's posting (no metagame argument, because I have none with him) is more indicative of a horrible townie than scum. However, as I also said earlier, bad town play is good for scum, so a good way for scum to blend in is to just act like a horrible townie. No clue if bluelightz plays like that. I don't think we lose much by lynching him if he's town and if he's scum we are 1 scum closer to victory. My vote is still on Mattchew, but am not opposed to just throwing bluelightz off the cliff either. I am not sure what you are refering to.
I just asked people to read through WBG and WIggles's posts because Wiggles' point about Bluelughtz setting the bombs off in the dark made me re-consider my stance on Bluelightz.
If Bluelightz were to use his ability again and not tell us where the bombs are then we would insta-kill him and risk losing a townie to the bombs, which would be a good trade.
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acro, i cannot PoP, i posted PoP's so that in the votecount it would show that i cannot PoP. I had not counted the votes at that time and it was possible that syllo could have gone over the edge and thus a PoP on him might be refunded. So i picked a name out of my ass instead.
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You ask me to post PoP's to prove that i couldn't PoP.
I post PoP's to prove that i couldn't PoP.
=>I am suspicious.
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