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On February 18 2012 12:54 MidnightGladius wrote: Gumshoe, your argument against me consists of two primary claims:
1) My accusations against you have grown in intensity without reason 2) I haven't contributed significantly to town
Let's be very clear here. You say that your posting has been getting better, but I strongly disagree. Early on, you had a bad plan. Then, you posted shaky reasoning for your plan. Then, you admitted to lying and misrepresenting the intentions of your original plan. Then, you started posting long lists and walls of text full of point-by-point analysis and confirmation bias. You can't just keep doing this.
As to my levels of contribution, you're using that argument in a flawed way. I'm responding to my accusers, presenting my thoughts, and trying to make my positions as clear as possible. The town will have plenty of evidence about my behavior to go through in the coming days. What more can you reasonably expect of me?
EchelonTee, you're free to do as you please, but when you say "More to come after this message," that creates some expectations. When you fail to live up to those expectations, that confuses me.
As for jaj's case, what of it? I'm not contributing? Really?
Early on I just defended myself and the silly post, I'm a new player I dint know posting observations in a list format is bad, I haven't done it since. Also whats was wrong with saying we have a better chance of hitting a mafia by lynching? Yeah I conveyed it badly but you blew up on that post. You haven't commented on who you might trust or steven's no lynch or Dimmuclocks switch, you haven't even addressed the other lurkers just manner. Theres plenty to talk about, foremost, if I'm town and you lynch is that better than a mafia kill?
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On February 18 2012 13:02 Steveling wrote: Can I get views on my case against gom pls? Tell me if I made a logical leap or something.
Meanwhile I'll read your cases, cause I was too busy with mine ,lol.
"About the lynch-no lynch, I just thought that it would be a better idea in the current circumstances for town. But since I have no clue about statistics, if someone can justify that lynching is better then I'm all for that. I think that's clear." you say you have no idea about statistics, this isn't statistics, this is common sense, we cant miss an opportunity to hurt the mafia because theres one more mafia than usual, were just throwing away an opportunity to get rid of a useless lurker or a mafioso. Sorry you didn't say you were inexperienced, but you clearly were in this regard. . Also I'm not saying ignore me, you can address me every post, just talk about other things as well so your not a one note panda, that makes you suspicious and your not gonna say anything new about me cause theres at least 2 other people dedicated to taking me down, there has to be something else that you find striking, what do you think of gladeus only posting to accuse me manner and ech? Also please include something else about me in your next point if that delights you, but please adress my question as well.
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On February 18 2012 12:57 Janaan wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On February 17 2012 15:26 DimmuKlok wrote: Hello everyone,
I just finished reading through the thread. I would first like to echo TKHawkins first post about lurking and availability when posting. I've been checking the thread nightly to see if the game had started, and tonight it did. I would not be surprised if the majority of people who haven't posted yet are unaware that the game has started.
Now a little bit about myself... This is my first mafia game, and I'm looking forward to it. I really like gumshoe's idea with the report. I'm sure it's already common place, but I recommend everyone make their own private version of it. It's not hard, and it makes it a lot easier to keep track of everyone. I don't have much to contribute yet when it comes to suspicions. It's still too early. Something to add to the scummy actions of DimmuKlok: I didn't really notice this at first, and just now saw it while looking through his filter. He says that previous to the game starting, he'd checked every night to see if we'd started. Now that it has, he's nowhere to be found. Not neccesarily incriminating, but at least worth noting, along with previous posts against him (primarily Alderan's). We NEED you to start being active, DimmuKlok. For now, though... ##Vote: DimmuKlok
That seems pretty convincing, dim said he'd be here to defend himself, he hasn't so ill just vote him till he gives us reason to suspect otherwise.
##Vote: DimmuKlok
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On February 18 2012 13:16 MidnightGladius wrote: As I said earlier, who I trust is on a need-to-know basis, and the people I trust are not necessarily the people I agree with.
Steven's no lynch was a dumb idea, he said so, and we're moving on. He hasn't tried to dwell on the topic, and so I don't consider that suspicious.
DimmKlok's switch? He hasn't even voted yet, so I'm not sure what you're talking about. He is rather quiet, though, and that leads into what I have to say about the lurkers: they have said nothing, so I have nothing to build a case from. If they keep quiet, they'll be modkilled and replaced, and we'll go from there. If they speak up, then I can look at them.
Mislynching is gives away so much information in terms of voting patterns and people's posting behavior, for and against. Mafia night kills only generate WIFOM, and there's not much more to be said about that.
Right now, we're dominating the thread, and not in a good way. It's creating long argumentative posts and stifling actual discussion as we just bash our heads against the wall.
Well in that case, I have agreed with and supported Ask sloosh jaj and allderan, I have disagreed ESPECIALLY with you, steveling dim and manner(in spirit) (and also a bit with everyone else)
. So take what you will from that.. What I will admire about you is that if your lynched you wont really cast suspicion on anyone because a) you haven't openly agreed with anyone and b) you haven't really accused anyone but me Etch and manner and were all sorta suspicious regardless. Thats why I don't want to vote for you, you wont turn up anything really even if your mafia, but I still don't trust you. For now though I think your right, this isn't helping. Im voting for dim because he decided to change his policy on no lynching around the same time Steveling proposed a no lynch. So if he turned up mafia that might be useful. I'm really just wanna hear from him though so hopefully pressuring him will force him out, which is what we really need to do right now, get the lurkers to talk.
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On February 18 2012 13:30 Steveling wrote: As you requested I'll post soon my views on DimmuKlok and Midnight.
Gomshoe you are actively throwing away your chance to absolve yourself at least in my eyes. Read my 2 posts about you and anwer pls.
I have no trust for you whatsoever, I'll reply to your question when! you read my wall of text!
Kidding I'll answer, I had a plan at the start of the game, the goal was that everyone would just post town on the poll and I would post maf, then ask who was the troll town who claimed maf? I wouldnt even accuse them just make a note of them for later. I wifomed right at the start thinking that all of town would just vote town.
I apologize for assuming what the honest guys would do.
Instead everyone voted mafia, originally the plan was that if no one bothered to step up to the claim than I would just disregard the poll as a failure.
My original reasoning i would tell you guys would be that I was trying to see how the remaining votes after the 11 green ones would turn out.
Then I realized the huge mess my vote created and decided to admit to lying even though that could result in me being considered mafia there on the spot.
You say hahaha look at gumshoe the trickster now, how clever he thinks he is to think he can fool the town! Do you have any idea how lucky I am I wasn't lynched the moment I admitted I lied? The poll was a huge gamble, admitting I was lying about the poll was suicide, I did it because I realized I messed up.
You can mock my apologies to town as much as you like but I am grateful that I was given another chance.
At this point there are several other suspects with solid cases against them, you yourself said that you were too busy writing your own case to focus on others, everyone knows the case against me which is a) I lied and b) I caused disruption at the start. There isn't any meta going on, I will certainly be revisited when the lynch arrives not because I am an evil posting mastermind, but because of the above. Feel free to keep wasting our time, ask me as many questions as you like.
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On February 18 2012 13:46 Steveling wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2012 13:35 gumshoe wrote:On February 18 2012 13:16 MidnightGladius wrote: As I said earlier, who I trust is on a need-to-know basis, and the people I trust are not necessarily the people I agree with.
Steven's no lynch was a dumb idea, he said so, and we're moving on. He hasn't tried to dwell on the topic, and so I don't consider that suspicious.
DimmKlok's switch? He hasn't even voted yet, so I'm not sure what you're talking about. He is rather quiet, though, and that leads into what I have to say about the lurkers: they have said nothing, so I have nothing to build a case from. If they keep quiet, they'll be modkilled and replaced, and we'll go from there. If they speak up, then I can look at them.
Mislynching is gives away so much information in terms of voting patterns and people's posting behavior, for and against. Mafia night kills only generate WIFOM, and there's not much more to be said about that.
Right now, we're dominating the thread, and not in a good way. It's creating long argumentative posts and stifling actual discussion as we just bash our heads against the wall. Im voting for dim because he decided to change his policy on no lynching around the same time Steveling proposed a no lynch. So if he turned up mafia that might be useful. Boy you are on fire, aren't you? Dimuks stance on lynching was the exact opposite from mine. I went from pro to against and he went from against to pro. With each post you make, I'm getting more and more confident about killing you, lol.
Thats exactly what I said, read my post, you guys swapped stances almost right after you both posted, just seemed a bit synchronized and therefore a bit suspicious. I'm sticking to my vote on dim because worst case scenario we lose a lurker, I feel unsure about voting for you and glades because you are both active and theres a chance your just townies who think I'm the master of bluff. Any other questions steve?
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On February 18 2012 13:59 Steveling wrote: Discussing more about you will hurt the town no matter your alliance so I'll stop here.
I will post my views on others.
Good luck.
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On February 18 2012 14:27 DimmuKlok wrote: I accidentally posted before I was finished. I will continue from where i left off.
I'm not actually sure what you meant by that, but nothing in that post was sarcasm. I'm was not bandwagoning when it came to gumshoe. He was one of my highest suspicions at the time of the post, and remains the highest on my list. For this reason I'm giving him my vote.
If there is anything I can do for you guys to help prove my innocence then feel free to post it.
##vote: gumshoe
I'd like to hear about you stance on gladeus hawkin and manner if you dont mind.
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On February 18 2012 15:06 DimmuKlok wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2012 14:35 gumshoe wrote:On February 18 2012 14:27 DimmuKlok wrote: I accidentally posted before I was finished. I will continue from where i left off.
I'm not actually sure what you meant by that, but nothing in that post was sarcasm. I'm was not bandwagoning when it came to gumshoe. He was one of my highest suspicions at the time of the post, and remains the highest on my list. For this reason I'm giving him my vote.
If there is anything I can do for you guys to help prove my innocence then feel free to post it.
##vote: gumshoe I'd like to hear about you stance on gladeus hawkin and manner if you dont mind. Gladeus's posts don't seem like much to be alarmed about to me. Most of them are contributing to the topic at the time and seem to be pro-town. Hawkin and Manner I consider to be in a very similar boat. Both of them don't seem to be putting up much effort to contribute. As I've stated in the past, I'm not very comfortable lynching someone over inactivity in the early game, but I agree there needs to be some consequences. Inactivity certainly not to the towns advantage. I would love to see them contribute more of their thoughts.
And Steveling?
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As a suggestion, for the upcoming votes, there seems to be two major posting suspects, me and Ech. I can almost assure you that were not both mafia.
I posted that poll way too early in the game to organize a hostile response with Ech, so now the huge grand arching plan that Steveling accuses me of would have to include Ech running back and forth to pm me a few minutes before that poll went up and his response landed.
Logically one of us is probably mafia and one of us is probably town, that or both of us are town which could spell the worst case scenario if one of us is lynched on the first day and the other is lynched on the second or murdered on the first night.
I think as things stand the ideal move is to lynch one of us today, if the person lynched is mafia that will all but clear the other of suspicion.
But if the one lynched is town then you guys need to approach the situation a bit more cautiously, because its very possible that you could end up lynching two townies.
so the best options are either lynch me or ech because we were opposed to one another at the very start and were the most suspicious posters, or vote for hawk because he still hasn't posted.
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On February 18 2012 15:45 DoYouHas wrote: Just finished reading after being away for a while. Gum, for the sake of my eyes, when you quote walls of text, put them in spoilers. If you are doing analysis on that wall of text, link the whole thing then just quote the relevant parts. Also, the preview button is your friend. I'm going to go back over what I just read again and let it sink in a bit.
I dislike that no one directly addressed my defense of gumshoe, with the exception of ET. I wrote it to be picked at and debated, but you all seem content hammering away at each other. Making big cases and walls of text is nice, but spending all your time on them is going to blind you. I know from personal experience.
My schedule is going to be very busy tomorrow. I will be unavailable starting at 4-3 hours before the deadline and remain so for something like 8-9 hours.
Do You, in what way did you expect it to be debated?
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On February 18 2012 16:17 Steveling wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2012 15:45 DoYouHas wrote: Just finished reading after being away for a while. Gum, for the sake of my eyes, when you quote walls of text, put them in spoilers. If you are doing analysis on that wall of text, link the whole thing then just quote the relevant parts. Also, the preview button is your friend. I'm going to go back over what I just read again and let it sink in a bit.
I dislike that no one directly addressed my defense of gumshoe, with the exception of ET. I wrote it to be picked at and debated, but you all seem content hammering away at each other. Making big cases and walls of text is nice, but spending all your time on them is going to blind you. I know from personal experience.
My schedule is going to be very busy tomorrow. I will be unavailable starting at 4-3 hours before the deadline and remain so for something like 8-9 hours.
I did read your defense on gumshoe. I stopped taking it seriously after this Show nested quote +On February 18 2012 09:51 DoYouHas wrote:
gumshoe has done a number of things that are not helping the town. The have been pointed out quite a few times so I won't go into depth about them now. Things like derailing, cluttering, unclear-ness, lying, a few inconsistencies.
The reason is quite obvious I think. Not that I believe that your play is bad or scummy DYH, but there's a point up to you can excuse one's behavior. Just look at gums last post, I won't comment on it, but just take a look at how hes trying to use "statistics" again(oh my) to prove his point. Anyway, I think all that should be said about gum have been said. Lets move on for now.
Its not statistics - _ - Ech was the first guy to attack me, He seems suspicious and he's opposed to me, were not both mafia because there just wasn't time or reason to organize this big a backstab at the start.
So say if Ech turned up mafia, that he would mean when he accused me he knew I wasn't mafia.
If I turn out to be mafia it means Ech was right in calling me so and is a townie because as I said there wasn't enough time to set up such an elaborate back stab. If the lynchee is town then its best to drop the whole case for the moment to avoid a second mislynch.
Also you've addressed one aspect of do's post, and disregarded the other. Yes Do defended me, but he also listed who stands where on the gumshoe front, no one has discussed any of the results of his findings.
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alright going to sleep. night night.
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how long till day one ends?
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I have an aching feeling that Ech will flip green if we kill him ) : that opening move of his was almost as bad as mine and hes supposed to be good, I cant imagine him being coached by other mafia through all this. I hate it but its gonna have to be a no lynch unless gladeus says he eats babies or something. Maybe we can vote for one of the lurkers? Manner/michael? Zell?
##Vote: MidnightGladius
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oh ##Unvote: DimmuKlok ##Vote: MidnightGladius
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On February 19 2012 09:27 EchelonTee wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2012 08:19 gumshoe wrote: I have an aching feeling that Ech will flip green if we kill him ) : that opening move of his was almost as bad as mine and hes supposed to be good, I cant imagine him being coached by other mafia through all this. I hate it but its gonna have to be a no lynch unless gladeus says he eats babies or something. Maybe we can vote for one of the lurkers? Manner/michael? Zell?
1. i'm not good. why suggest this so openly. this is my 4th game playing. 2. as mattchew said, this could be a scumslip; he knows I would flip green and is planting this. After my aggressive opening towards gumshoe I dont know why he would support me as such. Thoughts?
It was between you and gladeus, and I wanted to vote for gladeus as I suspected him from earlier, also in case you didint notice everyone attacked me at the start in some way, In fact I'm more suspicious of the people of the people who supported me but more on that later. Oh by the way thanks for this "i'm not good" I remember someone said they expected more out of you or something... As if they were making you out to be a better player than you were, it worked cause come lynch time I got the sense that you were a bit more of an experienced player, that person I recall reprimanded you and praised you at the same time. Still trying to figure out why.
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On February 19 2012 09:48 zelblade wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2012 09:38 gumshoe wrote:On February 19 2012 09:27 EchelonTee wrote:On February 19 2012 08:19 gumshoe wrote: I have an aching feeling that Ech will flip green if we kill him ) : that opening move of his was almost as bad as mine and hes supposed to be good, I cant imagine him being coached by other mafia through all this. I hate it but its gonna have to be a no lynch unless gladeus says he eats babies or something. Maybe we can vote for one of the lurkers? Manner/michael? Zell?
1. i'm not good. why suggest this so openly. this is my 4th game playing. 2. as mattchew said, this could be a scumslip; he knows I would flip green and is planting this. After my aggressive opening towards gumshoe I dont know why he would support me as such. Thoughts? It was between you and gladeus, and I wanted to vote for gladeus as I suspected him from earlier, also in case you didint notice everyone attacked me at the start in some way, In fact I'm more suspicious of the people of the people who supported me but more on that later. Oh by the way thanks for this "i'm not good" I remember someone said they expected more out of you or something... As if they were making you out to be a better player than you were, it worked cause come lynch time I got the sense that you were a bit more of an experienced player, that person I recall reprimanded you and praised you at the same time. Still trying to figure out why. Why are you suspisious of people who supported you? Why were you not around during the final minutes leading up to the lynch. jaj's reasoning that you might have woke up, voted, than gone back to sleep is obviously not what happened as you are here now. Give me a good reason for your disappearance. Your vote was important and we narrowly got a no-lynch. Why suddenly disappear after being so active in the thread?
just an update, Ive been pretty inactive because I realized the only thing ive proven through my posts is that I'm inept, I haven't built a strong case on anyone, so I let other people talk while I researched, now I almost have two cases, in about 30 minutes I'm gonna present my findings.
Moving onto the vote,I voted for gladeus because I felt he was mafia, I changed my stance on dim a while ago when I got the sense that he was just bandwagoning me , he didn't post any reasons just said I was suspicious , he seemed kinda out of synch with everything and didn't really get a chance to have a back and forth with his accusers, I saw no reason to vote for him when i felt gladeus was the better pick, I stuck with who I suspected. As to why I'm more suspicious of people who support me? I cant say yet, itll just sound like wifom without a case, I need you all to be a bit patient on that front. like I said thirty minutes.
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On February 19 2012 10:24 zelblade wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2012 10:14 gumshoe wrote:On February 19 2012 09:48 zelblade wrote:On February 19 2012 09:38 gumshoe wrote:On February 19 2012 09:27 EchelonTee wrote:On February 19 2012 08:19 gumshoe wrote: I have an aching feeling that Ech will flip green if we kill him ) : that opening move of his was almost as bad as mine and hes supposed to be good, I cant imagine him being coached by other mafia through all this. I hate it but its gonna have to be a no lynch unless gladeus says he eats babies or something. Maybe we can vote for one of the lurkers? Manner/michael? Zell?
1. i'm not good. why suggest this so openly. this is my 4th game playing. 2. as mattchew said, this could be a scumslip; he knows I would flip green and is planting this. After my aggressive opening towards gumshoe I dont know why he would support me as such. Thoughts? It was between you and gladeus, and I wanted to vote for gladeus as I suspected him from earlier, also in case you didint notice everyone attacked me at the start in some way, In fact I'm more suspicious of the people of the people who supported me but more on that later. Oh by the way thanks for this "i'm not good" I remember someone said they expected more out of you or something... As if they were making you out to be a better player than you were, it worked cause come lynch time I got the sense that you were a bit more of an experienced player, that person I recall reprimanded you and praised you at the same time. Still trying to figure out why. Why are you suspisious of people who supported you? Why were you not around during the final minutes leading up to the lynch. jaj's reasoning that you might have woke up, voted, than gone back to sleep is obviously not what happened as you are here now. Give me a good reason for your disappearance. Your vote was important and we narrowly got a no-lynch. Why suddenly disappear after being so active in the thread? just an update, Ive been pretty inactive because I realized the only thing ive proven through my posts is that I'm inept, I haven't built a strong case on anyone, so I let other people talk while I researched, now I almost have two cases, in about 30 minutes I'm gonna present my findings. Moving onto the vote,I voted for gladeus because I felt he was mafia, I changed my stance on dim a while ago when I got the sense that he was just bandwagoning me , he didn't post any reasons just said I was suspicious , he seemed kinda out of synch with everything and didn't really get a chance to have a back and forth with his accusers, I saw no reason to vote for him when i felt gladeus was the better pick, I stuck with who I suspected. As to why I'm more suspicious of people who support me? I cant say yet, itll just sound like wifom without a case, I need you all to be a bit patient on that front. like I said thirty minutes. You are missing the point here. My point here is that in the last 20 minutes or so before the lynch, it was clear that MG wasnt going to be lynched. We needed your vote on Dimmu, and we narrowly missed a no-lynch. Why werent you around the last few minutes before the deadline, when you were clearly online? I'll be looking forward to your case.
Theres an hour in between my posts, it was 8ish when I rushed my vote, I didn't vote to establish a majority I voted for the person I found suspicious, I left to go eat. Also I've been awake all day pretty much, I just haven't posted. I voted at 8ish left to go eat dinner with my family, came back and read the results. Also are you actually mad at me for not voting for a townie? Or do you think I wanted to look as if I was right about not voting for the townie ?
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Lastly I just want to say my vote wouldn't have changed despite the convincing desperation. I thought Gladus was scum, not dim, still do and I'm going to go in depth about it soon if you'd just give me a bit of time to finish.
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